[Caael]

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/A...17274868329.jpg

[Zeypher]

Is that real Oo

[Ironsight]

Bastards. At least now they've admitted to abandoning us.

[Caael]

"Face Training" Wtf?

[Zeypher]

That can't be real (face training).

[My Best Wishes]

That there is the reason I'm buying a 360.
Nintendo has just lost the plot, good for them for re-inventing the conceptions around video games, but I wish they had of told us before I bought the Wii.

[Someone Else]

watch, on Jul 28 2008, 08:39 PM, said:

I wish they had of told us before I bought the Wii.

Ditto, and Y HALO THAR SONY AND MS

The only good I can see from this is Nintendo realizing their mistake and coming back to us on their knees, apologizing. I really can't see them being successful in the long run doing this.

[My Best Wishes]

Quote

Paine said the Touch! Generation titles aren't about 'terrabytes and HD' - instead they are concerned with improving people's lives through interactive experiences.

How will my life be improved by playing Sight Training, or Brain Training or whatever other crap they come up with. How.
And I doubt very seriously that 2/3's of DS owners are female.

[Caael]

Stupid move on Nintendo's part really, because they're bound to (and already do) have immitators. That's just one of the many potential problems as well.

[Zeypher]

If the next Zelda and Kid Icarus Wii suck, then I think Nintendo has truly abandoned us, but until then I will remain neutral on the whole not catering to the hardcore thing.

[Laharl]

i dont recall ever treating its fanbase particularly well

[Aquamarine]

... God, we're screwed.

Except this isn't real. You would think some gaming sites would be reporting on this.

[Caael]

Aquamarine, on Jul 29 2008, 03:40 PM, said:

... God, we're screwed.

Except this isn't real. You would think some gaming sites would be reporting on this.

Even so, it doesnt even need to be written on paper ad shown to the world. It's so screamingly obvious that Nintendo dont give a crap about the fans now you'd be naive to deny it.

[Zeypher]

Nintendo hasn't completely abandoned the "hardcore" audience, they've just abandoned E3.
Did you know that Nintendo is publishing Fatal Frame 4, and in all likely hood The Conduit...?

[gsninja]

Nintendo hasn't abandoned its hardcore fans completely quite yet, but they sure have ****ed with us for a while. The only game so far on the Wii that can be considered for hardcore gamers is Radiant Dawn. If The Conduit and ToS II: Dawn of a New World end up being super easy and too casual as well (Although ToS II thankfully doesn't look as such), then I'm giving up on the Wii.

[Aquamarine]

Caael, on Jul 29 2008, 06:37 PM, said:

Even so, it doesnt even need to be written on paper ad shown to the world. It's so screamingly obvious that Nintendo dont give a crap about the fans now you'd be naive to deny it.

Can't argue with the facts.

[Golden Legacy]

Hardcore Nintendo fans have a Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Smash, Fire Emblem, Kart, all released within the console's first two years.

That's pretty ****ing crazy for Nintendo, not to mention they're all pretty fine entries in their respective series.


Like Zeyph said, Nintendo hasn't abandoned the hardcore crowd, they're simply exploiting and "encouraging" their casual games more often. Releasing most of their key franchises in less than two years means naturally there will be a gap until the next batch of core titles are ready.

We're in the middle of that gap right now.

[My Best Wishes]

But the quality of their hard hitting games have gone down hill.
Of those titles I would only rate Fire Emblem as great, but that's a fairly recent franchise for the West. With Metroid and Zelda being good. Smash was okay but SMG and MKWii were rubbish.
Were as you compare those titles to the 64 days (exclude FE and Metroid) and I wouldn't hesitate in giving them 10/10 for each.

[Ironsight]

watch, on Jul 30 2008, 12:33 AM, said:

SMG and MKWii were rubbish.

Careful Watch, you're entering dangerous territory now.

[Legolastom]

Well I wouldnt say SMG galaxy was rubish (No where near as good as the previous entires though), I would agree that MKWii sucked.

[My Best Wishes]

Darksword, on Jul 30 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

Careful Watch, you're entering dangerous territory now.

I realise that GL liked SMG and I hope he knows that I am not baiting him, I just don't like the game and don't see how it rated so highly everywhere. There were many better games then it in 2007 by my reckoning.

[Zeypher]

I've never played SMG or MKWii, so I can't really put my opinion about them...but I agree with GL about the gap thing. Nintendo likes to take long amounts of time making their "hardcore" titles... hell, there was a 4 year gap between LA and OoT, and look how OoT turned out.

[Caael]

Mario Kart Wii was only good for people who had never played previous installments imo.

[Golden Legacy]

watch, on Jul 30 2008, 04:12 AM, said:

I realise that GL liked SMG and I hope he knows that I am not baiting him, I just don't like the game and don't see how it rated so highly everywhere. There were many better games then it in 2007 by my reckoning.

I understand what you mean. I know many people feel SMG wasn't game of the year, and that's fine. As a standalone title (not comparing it with others in 2007, I mean), many people feel it's innovative and at least is one of the more creative ideas in recent years. That's opinion of course, but I will just say that there is a reason why it is both highly rated by many and has already outsold Super Mario Sunshine from the GC era, and is on par with matching sales of Mario 64.

watch, on Jul 30 2008, 03:33 AM, said:

But the quality of their hard hitting games have gone down hill.
Of those titles I would only rate Fire Emblem as great, but that's a fairly recent franchise for the West. With Metroid and Zelda being good. Smash was okay but SMG and MKWii were rubbish.
Were as you compare those titles to the 64 days (exclude FE and Metroid) and I wouldn't hesitate in giving them 10/10 for each.

I've played every single one of those games besides Mario Kart Wii, and I really feel they're at least decent entries. Solid entries that are worthy of their franchises. If I had to run down the list:

FE: Radiant Dawn - great gameplay, unchanged from GC but a fantastic formula still
Super Mario Galaxy - (my opinion) very innovative and just genuinely fun even if it's not perfect
Metroid - very underappreciated title, just as atmospheric and as worthy as the original Prime
Zelda - I honestly enjoyed Wind Waker more, but TP was more than a decent if very typical entry
Smash - pretty fun, more erratic than Melee is a downside but hugely expanded and just as enjoyable


When it comes down to it, the point I am ultimately trying to make is that the core Nintendo crowd shouldn't be upset. They're typically always complaining that Nintendo takes forever to release their key franchises; here Nintendo has released all of their heavy-hitters early on and now we're paying for it in having to wait for their resources and development teams to catch up. Hence the gap we're in now.

[gsninja]

Twilight Princess was just too easy. I never had such a simple time getting through the game compared to the previous LoZ entries. I now want LoZ games to have difficulty settings, especially after hearing the news that TP's going to be made even easier than it already is.

MK Wii is bad because items affect the races FAR too much, way more than they should. Seriously, once you reach first place, you'll end up getting hit with three Blue Shells within the next 10-15 seconds almost every single time.

I never played MP3, so I can't comment on that, lol. SMG was good because of what GL said.

[Zeypher]

TP is easy to people that are good at Zelda games, but it's hard as hell for people newer to the series. I have a few friends that aren't too big on Zelda that had a really tough time beating TP >.>

And yes MP3 is an awesome game. Retro Studious ftw

[Legolastom]

Isnt TP more of one year old Game cube game? And Metroid prime 3 was decent but it wasnt even a Metroid game.

[Joek2]

Why, because it's 3D, or because it changes the formula? That would mean OoT isn't really a Zelda game.

[Legolastom]

Prime one was a Metroid game, Prime 3 felt way more like some random FPS.

[Zeypher]

TP is more of a GCN game yeah...and MP3 is a Metroid game. It's still more FPA than FPS.

[Caael]

I was put slightly off MP3 because of the involvement with the federation and the other people when metroid has pretty much just been Samus and her ship and nothing else. It made it feel less of a Metroid game.

[Someone Else]

Golden Legacy, on Jul 30 2008, 11:36 AM, said:

<long post>

I guess we should mind the gap, (londoners c wut i did thar?) but Mr. Mario himself basically declared that we aren't his audience anymore.

[Joek2]

Oi, oi, I've been to London. I've seen those signs. I even have a shirt.

[My Best Wishes]

Quote

Unfortunately, it looks like those who have been hoping that the next Zelda would ramp up the difficulty won’t find the next Zelda game to be any tougher. If anything, the next Zelda title could be even less hardcore than we’re accustomed to. “Frankly, some of the so-called ‘franchise games’ are quite difficult for nongamers to play, so making accessible games for these players is key. With Zelda, we have to consider how to make it accessible for new gamers to pick up and play and enjoy just as hardcore gamers have. For example, we’ve got the Touch Generations series. Now, we’re not necessarily going to make our “franchise” games in that style, but we’ll take what we know and have learned — the philosophy behind those games — and incorporate it into franchise games. That’s a philosophy that’s very strong at Nintendo.

Oh **** of, stop caring so much about the new 12 Year olds who want a games system and cater to your fans that grew up on your consoles and are the reason you're so successful.

[Aquamarine]

Frickin' morons... As if we don't already have enough of these "casual games". There are more of them than real Nintendo games for Wii! Plus, there are more on the way: Wii Sports Resort, Wii Music, Animal Crossing, and almost certainly more. Not only that, but they're not even making games that are ONLY for real gamers anymore. Seriously, Zelda will be partially casual, and I can bet anything that Pikmin will be as well. whacking idiots...

[Someone Else]

Exactly! I don't really care that Nintendo's making things like Wii Sports and Wii Music and Wii Walk Your Dog, but leave Zelda the hell alone! So-called "casual gamers" have the games previously mentioned, they do NOT need to casual-ize the core titles!

[Zeypher]

Maybe there will be a difficulty setting?

[Laharl]

so there'd be the usual piss easy difficulty and a new "you need brain damage to fail at this" difficulty for the casual tards?

[Joek2]

Casuel gamers games are killing the gaming industry. Sorry to say it, but it's true.

[Someone Else]

Zeypher, on Jul 31 2008, 01:44 PM, said:

Maybe there will be a difficulty setting?

Zelda with a difficulty setting would defeat the whole point of Zelda.

Not to mention, really hard to do.

[Joek2]

Why? Other games do it. Make the enemies attack's stronger, and yours weaker.

[gsninja]

Before Twilight Princess, I was fine with the LoZ series not having a difficulty setting. With TP and the fact that Nintendo's gonna try to make it even easier than it already is, I'm all for the series having difficulty settings from now on until Nintendo realizes that it's trying to butcher one of its greatest franchises.

[Aquamarine]

I wish TWW had difficult settings...

Wind Dude, on Aug 1 2008, 03:10 AM, said:

Zelda with a difficulty setting would defeat the whole point of Zelda.

Not to mention, really hard to do.

Why would it defeat the point of Zelda, I really don't get it. Just because you've never seen a Zelda with difficulty settings and it seems strange definitely doesn't mean it would defeat the point of the game, or even be difficult to implement.

In my opinion, EVERY game should have difficulty settings. It CAN'T be a bad thing.

But Nintendo has never ever had difficulty settings in any of their first party single player games, so I doubt they would suddenly start putting them in.

[Toasty]

I don't mind if Nintendo releases casual games as long as their casual games stay on one side and their "Hardcore" games stay on the other. And as long as we at least get some decent games from time to time.

they they sure as hell had better not start dumbung down their last good franchises so they can bring casual gamers into the hardcore scene.

I realise that they'll be getting a bigger croud by doing this (much bigger, infact), but unless they release games for all levels of difficulty, their current efforts will only be a waste after after the current market grows out of videogames. Though there are many who don't. Regardless, that'll require a ton of resources, and the quality of all games released would have to be lowered.

Even though my mom actually liked Brain Age (while I still had it), I doubt she'd ever play anything like a dumbed down Zelda title.


As for the "hardcore" games Nintendo's released so far, well they haven't impressed me much.
SMG was absolutely great for the first 70 or so stars. After that, I got bored of it and haven't touched it. Great game without a doubt, but it just deosn't hold my interest, and doesn't have much replay value either (imo).
Brawl is fun now and then when there's someone to play against, but I got bored of it faster than I did SMG. I suppose it'd be funner if I had people around who I could play often (or if the online service was a lot less laggy), but it's just boring now.
FE:RD is still a great title, and I intend to finish it, but I haven't picked it up in a while. Still, it's probably the best title out of all of the "hardcore" ones so far.
WW was great, and I enjoyed it a lot. It was easy enough that I didn't just throw down the controller and quit yet at the same time, it always kept me interested. TP was just boring and repetitve. Not to mention the lack of contrasting colors most of the time (they might as well have just used different shades of brown).
I haven't tried MP3 or MKWii yet, so I'll have to see, but I hear things from both side about both titles.

[Zeypher]

@Aqua- A difficulty setting wouldn't work in Zelda because it's more puzzle based... unless they had different puzzles for each level of difficulty.

[Legolastom]

Lol, Zelda puzzle based. The only ones which were actually good were the ones which involved Ice blocks, I always love those puzzles, they actually require you to think.

And Majoras mask had puzzles that were actually good.

[Laharl]

i guess the dungeons consist of a series of cooking battles then and not puzzles

[Someone Else]

Zeypher, on Aug 1 2008, 03:51 AM, said:

@Aqua- A difficulty setting wouldn't work in Zelda because it's more puzzle based... unless they had different puzzles for each level of difficulty.

Exactly, it would greatly increase the development time of the game, basically making two games. One for easy, and one for hard if there's two settings.

And it would ruin it for me because while I'm playing on hard, in the back of my head I'd know that if I was ever stuck I could just swap over to easy. Difficulty settings just ruin these kinds of games. Zelda is known for having people stuck for weeks at a time. Or at least, it was way back when.

[Caael]

Before the days of the internet. *Sigh*

Surely it could just be like Oblivion, where a higher difficulty meant enemies had more health and/or you take more damage.

[Someone Else]

I'd actually kind of like that. Enemies have been waaaay too easy in the latest Zeldas.

[Zeypher]

I don't really think the enemies have gotten way easier, it's just that we have all these fancy sword techniques and stuff now.

[Someone Else]

Naw they're easier. In OoT, most enemies take half of a heart away. In TP, it's 1/4 of a heart.

[Caael]

And they die in about 3 hits anyway.

[Zeypher]

Oh yeah, the AI in TP is horrible.

[Aquamarine]

Caael, on Aug 1 2008, 09:50 PM, said:

Surely it could just be like Oblivion, where a higher difficulty meant enemies had more health and/or you take more damage.

This is what I meant. Not just more resilient and powerful enemies though, but MORE enemies attacking all at once as well. Plus, they could make it more difficult to find hearts and rupees in grass and jars in harder modes, have bottled fairies and potions replenish fewer hearts and make you have to find more heart container pieces to get one complete heart, meaning also that you wouldn't be able to have 20 hearts maximum, but 10 or 15 or something. I've always thought 20 is WAY too much and that they should make it 10...

[Caael]

I'll post what I posted in another forum about the next Zelda. It's a long post, but apparantly it's worthwhile so give it a read.




- A more epic scale. You'd fight, what, 4-5 enemies at the same time at the very most. Plus they'd all stand there waiting patiently for one to die before attacking. In the new one, you should be up against hundreds of enemies. You're the hero of time, you should at least do some heroic things like attacking massive armies head on. TP kinda did this in the city with all the people, but it never implimented this feature anywhere else.

- A new ****ing story. Jesus christ i'm starting to think that Ganon can just take Zelda and piss off, just dont bother me. Make it interesting, like Majoras Mask. Make it epic. Make it creepy. Just make sure Zelda isn't captured or any of that my mom.

-Involvement from NPCs adding to the plot. It would be awesome if Ganon summoned a massive army and Hyrule city went to war with it and you were thrown into the fray of the battle, leading the charge. Doesn't even have to be Ganon, a new enemy could be waging war on Hyrule. It would also be pretty cool to have fights in the different settings, with a Goron army throwing bad guys into Lava pits and Zoras using the kung fu moves and fins to kill people.

- Please, no more linearity. I've had enough of going from dungeon to dungeon finding this item and killing this boss. Give some variety in the dungeons, or have intermissions or something between them. Instead of looking for the sacred stones or whatever you normally do, be more politically involved. Like, instead of a magical force guiding link from temple to temple, say if we did use the plot idea earlier with a new character invading from a different place, say that they've stolen an artifact from the council and you've been tasked to retrieve it from a stronghold. Okay, not like that but not just the same 7 ****ing dungeons.

-Give Link a personality. Instead of making him walk through the game unable to make decisions for himself and basically just being guided through, make him able to interact with certain characters and choices affect things. Say if a shopkeeper tasked you with killing some monsters that have been attacking his caravan convoy, and you refuse to do it, he will charge you more than he would if you had killed the monsters. Plus the physical output of the person could also change (snarling if they see you)

-Give NPC's a personality as well. You'll always find the same NPC in the same place every day, any day. I'm not sure about you, but I dont stand in the same spot for weeks on end. Make them go to an Inn or their house at night time, and make them visit shops and talk to people during day time. It just makes the game feel less empty and hollow. Also, instead of slashing through NPC's like they're a ghost, if you hit them with your sword or something, make them hate you and walk away from you every time they see you.

-Emotional involvement. I've never really cared about the fate of the characters, Probably because they're all ****ing silent. Give them voices, and I believe they could do it right with Link. If you've heard Kaim from Lost Odyssey's voice, I imagine Link would sound something like that. It's not difficult. Get Patrick Stewart or somebody to be the villain or the main council person. And actually show more of the characters. You see Ganon what, twice? in TP, not including the boss battle at the end. Same with Zelda. I'd probably care more about Ganon taking her if she wasn't kidnapped straight off the bat, and you actually got to know her during the game. That way, Link isnt magically drawn to her and actually has a reason for saving her apart from ' The legends say so'.

-More evil and malicious enemies. I'm sorry, but i'm frankly bored of fighting bats, little jelly things and that. Give us more Darknuts, more Lizardmen, more Armoured Moblins. If this next game (which it should) will be a more serious, TP like game instead of a Cel shaded game, then dont have little monkeys prancing about and make it genuinely tense when fighting something.

-Dont highlight the damn weakness on the boss and have more than 1 way to kill it. Use initiative to find out how to make a boss more dead. You shouldnt have to rely on being able to hold down target, and lay into the flashing red eye. Say if the boss is armoured, and there's a pit of lava in the arena, you could get it to walk into the lava to melt off the armour. Alternatively, you could pull armour off with a hookshot. That was a terrible example, but you get the idea.

-More Variety in gameplay. Have more stealth sections like in WW. Add diversity to the running around slashing things dead. Having a horse does not count. Have appropriate itmes for these varieties. Like for a stealth player, you could buy poison arrows from shops and a short blade, whereas if you're a defensive player have an armoured tunic and a larger shield with a slower attack. If you were an attack based player, you could have a 2 handed sword and light boots so you can charge in.

-More sidequests. There's not nearly enough in any of the current Zeldas. Instead of being able to complete all of them in about half an hour, make it more like Oblivion where you can recieve quests from Citizens.

In Twilight Princess, they might as well have just stripped it down to just the characters involved in the story, because those are the only people who actually did anything.

The choices you make in the game should actually affect the people and environment. Have more than 1 ending, so you can choose which link you want to be, instead of just being forced into the normal link. I'm not entirely sure how this would work, but say one point in the game you have the choice of saving a goron falling into lava or leaving it to die so you can reach a heart container. If you had these choices throughout the game, at the end you'd either get the Good or Bad ending, the good ending being where you did more good deeds than bad, and the bad ending would be the opposite.

Something to that extent; that was a bad example but you get the idea.

As you progress through the game, you could get a reputation depending on your purity or evil; say people would cheer or thank you when they see you if you're a good person, but if you're bad they would scowl and maybe charge you higher.


Of course, none of my ideas are ever going to happen because Miyamoto himself said that he wants to make Zelda more accessible to casual fans.

[Aquamarine]

Caael... Just go play some more Oblivion, since that's what you discribed in your post.

Although I do agree with you on SOME points, such as more sidequests and emotional involvement.

[Zeypher]

Link's personality is supposed to remain shady.

I think Nintendo should take Zelda back to it's roots. LoZ, ALttP, OoT. Hell, do a remake of AoL.

[Caael]

Aquamarine, on Aug 1 2008, 09:36 PM, said:

Caael... Just go play some more Oblivion, since that's what you discribed in your post.

Although I do agree with you on SOME points, such as more sidequests and emotional involvement.

Have you ever actually played Oblivion? No, so be quiet.

Oblivion has no epic battles. It tries but usually it's about 10 men against about 20 creatures. Not really too epic.

[Aquamarine]

I have played Oblivion. I don't actually have it at home, but I've played quite a lot of it.

[Caael]

And if you've played quite a lot of it, then you'll know that there's no real bosses in Oblivion.

The only thing slightly like Oblivion in my post was the sidequests. Everything else is completely different.

[Legolastom]

Wait, TP wasnt enough like OoT for you Zeypher?

[Someone Else]

You described Oblivion, Caael.

And I've played more than 300 hours of Oblivion. That's what you described. =P I like what you said, particularly the story bits and massive armies and stuff like that, more things to do between dungeons, less linearity, but Zelda shouldn't be a real RPG.

[Zeypher]

Legolastom, on Aug 1 2008, 06:26 PM, said:

Wait, TP wasnt enough like OoT for you Zeypher?

What? I didn't like TP.

[Lemontime]

As has been said; would really have been nice if they told us this before we all bought the Wii. I feel let down..

[Legolastom]

Neither did I, and the majority of the game was copied from OoT.

[Caael]

Wind Dude, on Aug 2 2008, 01:44 AM, said:

You described Oblivion, Caael.

And I've played more than 300 hours of Oblivion. That's what you described. =P I like what you said, particularly the story bits and massive armies and stuff like that, more things to do between dungeons, less linearity, but Zelda shouldn't be a real RPG.

I dont recall oblivion ever being involved with politics, I seem to remember Martin, who is nothing to do with the council.

And the gameplay parts weren't thought through with the stealth and that; instead there should be more approaches to how you complete a task. Most of the time there's one way to get from one point to the other, and thats by running through killing stuff. You should be able to have different methods of getting through a place.

[Toasty]

I think people are referring to the general ideas to improve the game, not make the plot better.

But from what I read, you outlined an RPG. LoZ is knida RPGish, but it's supposed to be an adventure game.

Though I do agree with many points. More enemies (even more than in WW right after you get the Master Sword and emerge from the basement, because that's the most I've ever seen in a Zelda game......don't hurt me), different plot, harder enemies, and more dynamic NPC's.

[Laharl]

Caael, on Aug 1 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

Have more stealth sections like in WW.

get out.

and stop denying that you just described Oblivion.

[Caael]

I thought the stealth sections were fun, but they werent done very well. With improvements they could be really good.

[Someone Else]

The thing that I'd really like that's sort of RPG-ish is the ability to purchase and wield different weapons. In fact, I've always found myself with TOO MUCH money in Zelda games, because shops are generally useless. Purchasable weapons could help.

Why do they sell arrows from shops, but Link's bow is only obtainable from a dungeon? I want to save up my money and buy it from a shop, like they do with your shield, bombs, and arrows.

Also, who doesn't want to see Link wielding a huge axe?

My thought here is, different melee weapons would have different advantages to them, such as a two-handed axe would be slower and maybe a little weaker then Link's default one-handed sword, but it's got a huge range. Maybe spears for rushing enemies, and with one-hit kills while charging on a horse.

Also, bring back all the item upgrades from A Link to the Past! I loved that part of the game... Gold Sword and Magic Boomerang ftw!

[Zeypher]

You buy the Bow and Bombs in LA.

And a war axe would be leet... If the Ball and Chain was done a war axe surely isn't impossible... it could be like the ones Iron Knuckles carry.

[Neon]

Nintendo are destroying the game industry. There is no artistry in casual games.

it's the equivalent of burning all the world's novels and making only colouring/maze/lifestyle books
or making only reality/game shows
or only greatest party hits cds and never any albums outside of the quick hit pop genre

[TheEnglishman]

Neon, on Aug 15 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

or making only reality/game shows

That's all we do in Britain. But I know what you mean. There's a flood of Wii titles that is just Wii sports repeated.

[Someone Else]

I'm waiting on Nintendo getting massive negative feedback in the year to come for all the casual baby crap. Hoping they'll see the error in their ways. They've been doing the casual thing for a while, it was just never this bad.

If not, then I'm hoping they'll just die. =/

Ya know, even if Twilight Princess was still a bit on the easy side it was a step in the right direction from The Wind Waker, which was crazy too easy. I was kinda hoping that it meant Nintendo would be catering to the core audience again, but I guess I was wrong.

[TheEnglishman]

Sega speak out. Next they'll bring back the Nintendon't campaign in my opinion. :(

[Aquamarine]

Does Sega even have the right to say that someone else's games are crap?

[Caael]

Do you have the right to go around insulting whoever you want? Yes you do. It's not particularly polite, but nobody is going to stop you.


Oh right you meant after the recent 'sega ****' phase.

[Aquamarine]

If by 'recent' you mean 'since 2003', then yeah, that's what I meant.

[Caael]

Maybe they are hypocrites, but at least they try. Nintendo just put no effort into anything, because they know if it has 'Wii' slapped on it, it will sell.

[Aquamarine]

I've been agreeing with a lot of Nintendo bashing as of late, and for good reason. Hoever, I can't really agree with that. They have put a lot of effort into most of the "real" games that have been released, and even probably a fair amount into the casual ones, but we simply cannot enjoy the latter ones.

[TheEnglishman]

Aquamarine, on Aug 15 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

Does Sega even have the right to say that someone else's games are crap?

They did it in the early 90's. If they want to say that they do something better they can do. It would be a case of people in glass houses throwing stones, but they can do it.

[Ironsight]

Well, I'm glad at least one game company sees the majority of the Wii's games for what they really are.

[TheEnglishman]

Well I'd agree with him. To be fair, there was also an article I saw in which they said why people should stick with Nintendo.
It's ironic. Nintendo are more successful than they have been in a number of years, yet their popularity with gamers has bombed.

[Laharl]

Wind Dude, on Aug 15 2008, 08:37 PM, said:

I'm waiting on Nintendo getting massive negative feedback in the year to come for all the casual baby crap. Hoping they'll see the error in their ways. They've been doing the casual thing for a while, it was just never this bad.

If not, then I'm hoping they'll just die. =/

Ya know, even if Twilight Princess was still a bit on the easy side it was a step in the right direction from The Wind Waker, which was crazy too easy. I was kinda hoping that it meant Nintendo would be catering to the core audience again, but I guess I was wrong.

Kinda makes sense what they're doing from a business point of view, Nintendo's last 2 consoles were 'hardcore' (****ing hate that term) and were soundly beaten by the competition. The Wii's emphasis on casual gaming brings it out of direct conflict with the 360 and PS3, its got free roam over the market whilst the other two fight to the death over the 'hardcore' crowd.

I cant say i approve of what nintendo are doing but there is financial sense behind, and at the end of the day, that's all they care about, the "real" fan base can complain all it wants but as long as Nintendo continue to make embarrassing amounts of money from casual gaming they're not going to give a ****.

Me111, on Aug 15 2008, 08:50 PM, said:

Sega speak out. Next they'll bring back the Nintendon't campaign in my opinion. :rolleyes:

lolololol

that's the videogame equivalent of an anti-sematic jew

[Toasty]

Still, Sega has a point.

I know Nintendo is making craploads with their casual games,but they're turning gameing from an art-form into an industrialized mass production pile of poo.

It's like they've got little children in sweatshops slaving over computers to mass produce casual games.


.....come to think of it, that sounds more like the videogame crash of the 80's.

[Nosferatu]

Well, here's the crash of video games in the mid '00s to somewhere in the '10s.

[Laharl]

i cant see the game industry ever recovering from its current state as long as the companies keep their current mindset

[Split Infinity]

Why is everyone talking as if Nintendo is holding the entire industry on its shoulders?

[Toasty]

Becuase they practiclly are? They're selling more Wii's than the PS3 and 360 combined. And the DS is selling something like 2 or 3 times as many units as the PSP.

[Split Infinity]

Like Laharl said, the PS3 and the 360 already have the 'hardcore' market preoccupied, so if Nintendo collapses it'll only drive up sales for the other two unless there's somebody else to fill that space.

[TheEnglishman]

Not only that but if Nintendo do keep bringing titles designed for a larger audience, they'll still be bought.

[Someone Else]

Split Infinity, on Aug 16 2008, 04:52 AM, said:

Like Laharl said, the PS3 and the 360 already have the 'hardcore' market preoccupied, so if Nintendo collapses it'll only drive up sales for the other two unless there's somebody else to fill that space.

I can answer that by quoting this:

Toasty, on Aug 16 2008, 04:25 AM, said:

They're selling more Wii's than the PS3 and 360 combined. And the DS is selling something like 2 or 3 times as many units as the PSP.

Nintendo are kind of the face of gaming. I can't even consider that an opinion, as Nintendo saved gaming back in the 80's. Nintendo isn't going anywhere, they've made too much money.

Unless everybody boycotts Nintendo's products if they keep being casual shovelware, all I can say is RIP GAMING.

The reason I'm fascinated in gaming is that they're basically interactive works of art. You just don't get that with movies, music, or even books. I thought BioShock was amazing, and if that game wasn't art I don't know what is. And Crisis Core had masterful storytelling like no other game I've seen. Dammit. What are you doing, Nintendo?

[Neon]

exactly. Nintendo's recent games are more funky apps people make for fun between real high profile games.

I prefer games that try to be like high budget films and not like educational toys.

[Caael]

Why cant there be more games like Eternal Sonata? I think ES is the most depthful game i've ever played. Based around a dreamworld in the mind of Frederic Chopin moments before he dies, it explores loads of psychological aspects and it's genuinely an incredible game. Eternal Sonata I'd say is one of the best games ever created. The Wii? "Lets go fishing, lets drive a car".

All I can say is that i'm glad to have a 360.

[Drizzy Drake]

Let's drive a car? Wow, thats alot like Gran Turismo, and Midnight Club, and Burnout, and...well, you get the point.

[Someone Else]

Wii Music, Wii Sports, Wii Play... Wii Fish, Wii Drive, and hell, Wii Garden are probably on their way.

[TheEnglishman]

Wii Accounting. Seriously I think there's a strong niche in the market that Nintendo are overlooking.

[Nosferatu]

Wind Dude, on Aug 17 2008, 12:07 PM, said:

Wii Music, Wii Sports, Wii Play... Wii Fish, Wii Drive, and hell, Wii Garden are probably on their way.

Turns out there is Wii Garden. First video here.

[Ironsight]

Ha ha ha oh wow.

[Someone Else]

I can barely believe it.

[Mallick]

Nosferatu, on Aug 17 2008, 03:57 PM, said:

Turns out there is Wii Garden. First video here.

Lemme guess, rick roll?

[Nosferatu]

Why is everyone so paranoid about being Rick Roll'd? It's not a Rick Roll.

[Toasty]

I didn't kow Barrack was gonna be in Wii Garden! I think I'll boycott Nintendo just for putting him in a game.


On a slightly more serious note, even though the Wii is crap, the DS still has some really awesome games out for it already, and new titles on their way (that aren't casual).
Contact, AW:DS (if a little easy and unbalanced), FFIII, Magical Starsign, Kirby: Canvas Curse, and numerous others. I've been hearing good things about FFIV too.

The DS could still use a bit fo improvement in it's lineup, but it's far better off right no than the Wii is. At least as far as non-casual gaming goes.

[Laharl]

Neon, on Aug 17 2008, 10:39 AM, said:

I prefer games that try to be like high budget films and not like educational toys.

that's just the other end of the spectrum, you get overhyped garbage that's had waaay too much money poured into it.

[Legolastom]

Better being partially s-hit than utter s-hit.

[Toasty]

Agreed.

Halo, heck even Brawl is a better title than most of the crap Nintendo's been making.

[Mallick]

Nosferatu, on Aug 17 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

Why is everyone so paranoid about being Rick Roll'd? It's not a Rick Roll.

Because it isn't an IGN/Gamespot/whatever link.

[Split Infinity]

I'll give you that, their handhelds have some attractive titles on offer, but in terms of console gaming Nintendo has always been second-best.

[Golden Legacy]

SNES era would beg to differ.

[Legolastom]

And N64 didnt have many games but it had a lot of amazing ones.

[TheEnglishman]

Golden Legacy, on Aug 20 2008, 06:45 PM, said:

SNES era would beg to differ.

It was clearly the Megadrive! *Covers up ears and goes 'lalalalalalalalala'*

[Saturos S.]

I second the megadrive. Since I have one, and what I have is always better. ...right.

I'll probably get Wii Sports Resort, just because, Wii Sports is the most fun game on the console? And my parents would be willing to pay for it. "That seems like fun, not violent anyway."

[Kuchiyose]

so errm what happens now, hmmmm

[Laharl]

Golden Legacy, on Aug 20 2008, 06:45 PM, said:

SNES era would beg to differ.

as would the NES era

[Toasty]

Heck, without Nintendo, the gaming industry might not even be around right now.


Anyway, Wii Sports Resort will be worth buying if it's $15 or less. Though the sword fighting in it looks kinda fun.

[Someone Else]

I'm boycotting that crap. If there's a good reason to buy the Motion Plus thing, I'm buying it separately.

[Legolastom]

True but then again. Without the Nazis who knows what the world would be like today.

[Nosferatu]

Wind Dude, on Aug 23 2008, 12:27 PM, said:

I'm boycotting that crap. If there's a good reason to buy the Motion Plus thing, I'm buying it separately.

I'm going to second that, for great justice of course.

[Split Infinity]

Toasty, on Aug 23 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

Heck, without Nintendo, the gaming industry might not even be around right now.

Nope, that was Pac-Man.

And there was no competition in the NES/SNES eras.

[Toasty]

*backhands*

Nintendo practically single-handedly pulled the gameing industry out of the proverbial industrial-sized toilet during the video game crash of the 80's.

[gsninja]

If it wasn't for R.O.B. and the NES, then the video game industry probably wouldn't exist.

[Legolastom]

Yeah but they also made Tingle so it kinda evens out.

[TheEnglishman]

GSNinja, on Aug 24 2008, 05:38 PM, said:

If it wasn't for R.O.B. and the NES, then the video game industry probably wouldn't exist.

I'm not so sure. I reckon that if it hadn't been developed by one group, it would have been by another.

[Someone Else]

There's no way to know for sure. Trying to speculate what would have happened is about as efficient as a tone-deaf person trying to read a Rachmaninoff symphony using a Russian phrase book.

[Toasty]

What if they're Russian with 1337 mu5ic 5ki11z?

Well whether someone else could/would have done it or not, Nintendo's the one that did, and they're responsible for breathing life into the gaming industry. Though now they seem to be responsible for it's dumbing-down too.

[Nosferatu]

Holy crap. New Zelda announced at PAX!
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/208557.html

[Drizzy Drake]

close one, but naw, not falling for it.

[My Best Wishes]

Haven't heard that song in freakin ages, why did Nos link?

[Someone Else]

Called a Rick Roll. http://www.urbandict...?term=Rick+Roll

And no, that link is NOT another Rick Roll. Though I considered it for a second.

Nice one Nos. Seemed too good to believe, but I believed it anyway. i.i

[Toasty]

HO SHI-!

Super Mario RPG's been released for the virtual console!

[Drizzy Drake]

*buys* see ya'll in 20 hours

[Aquamarine]

Aw, it's already been released in America? Damn, Europe got it last week and I was hoping you guys would have to wait a while for it... Like we do for everything else...

Anyhow, once I set up my ADSL net downstairs where my Wii is, and once I get some WiiPoints, this is definitely one of the first Virtual Console games I'll be getting. Not that I'll get all that many though... The choice of games isn't exactly spectacular.

And what's with Majora's Mask, has that been released for VC yet?

[Caael]

When MM is released, i'll cream my pants and buy it 20 times over.

[Toasty]

That's slightly disgusting.

Anyway, I'm waiting for the origional Mario Party. But since I've never played SM RPG, I'll probably buy that first.

[Split Infinity]

Why buy what you can emulate flawlessly?

[Toasty]

First off, it's not the same as playing it on a console, and secondly, you'd need at least 2GB of DDR (DDR2 or DDR3 would obviously be better though) RAM, and a Pentium 4 or later processor running at 3 GHz or higher to "flawlessly" run any ROM that wasn't designed with 3D vector graphics. Like an N64 game. If you want to emulate an N64 game, or anything later without much lag, you'll need a faster processor.

It takes a lot of horsepower to emulate a whole computing platform.

[/complicated hardware related stuff]

[Split Infinity]

The 2GHz Macs at school can easily run SSB64...

[Toasty]

That's a mac.

And macs suck pingas.

[EDIT] Wait......why the hell would anyone create an emulator for a mac?

[Split Infinity]

Your computer must be really resource-hungry.

[Toasty]

Not really. Average commit charge is only about 490MB out of 3938MB. The Windows XP kernel usually stays at around 2-6% of total CPU usage.

[Nosferatu]

Why do you hate us Nintendo? How could you let this happen?

http://wii.ign.com/a...0/910400p1.html

[Someone Else]

It was only three people.

[Blue]

Man, I'm so angry at Nintendo that this will probably be the last post I make in this part of the forum in awhile.

**** you Nintendo. These games that are coming out are complete and utter bull****. I'm glad I got a PS3. If it wasn't for Tales of Symphonia, I would have sold my Wii already.

[Toasty]

Nintendo has become full of asshattery.

But, I'm not about to be selling my Wii any time soon. Though I may look into getting a 360.

[Ironsight]

Glad I bought a ****ty console with good games rather than a good console with ****ty games.

[Caael]

But the Wii isnt even a good console. The only redeeming feature is the Virtual Console, and they barely update that ever.

[Ironsight]

Well, I wanted to make it symetrical.

[Split Infinity]

So Gordo, you still think Nintendo is holding up the console market?

[Toasty]

Split, it doesn't matter which way you look at it. Even if Nintendo is telling off their fanbase, they still own the majority of the console market thanks to "casual gaming".

Unfortunately, they're dominating the market right now. So yes, they are holding up the console market.

Caael, on Sep 16 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

But the Wii isnt even a good console. The only redeeming feature is the Virtual Console, and they barely update that ever.

They update it weekly from what I understand. Though it isn't always good.

[My Best Wishes]

The Wii is alot better with hardware and software hacks, just putting it out there.

[Split Infinity]

The casual market only constitutes a portion of the console industry. The world could easily live without it.

[Toasty]

*faccepalm*

Split, why do you think Nintendo is anally rapeing Sony and MS in console sales?

[Split Infinity]

Answer that yourself, I'm not helping you out here.

We were doing fine before the Wii, we could do fine without it as well. Just like any other console.

[My Best Wishes]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 17 2008, 06:45 PM, said:

*faccepalm*

Split, why do you think Nintendo is anally rapeing Sony and MS in console sales?

Because it's gimmicky, the motion sensor and all that drew us all in.
It's cheaper.
It's Nintendo so of course all the little kiddies are going to want it.

Pretty much Nintendo owns the little kids because it has the family image, it owns the younger teenagers who rely on parents because it's the cheapest. But I wouldn't say Nintendo owns the generations who buy their own consoles.
I'm looking to get a 360 when I start work.

[Aquamarine]

Toasty has a point. You can compain all you like about the games, but what matters and what determines the winner are console sales. And Nintendo is winning(for now at least).

But yeah... Nintendo does suck. They're screwing over their fanbase like nobody has done since Sony announced the pricing of the PS3.

[Laharl]

Nintendo has never treated its fanbase well >_>

how many times do i have to say that before it sinks in?

[TheEnglishman]

They are dominating the market, but I can't help but wonder how long the effect will last. There's still a portion of my mind that sees this as a fad. You may think, 'well surely it's lasted too long to be considered a fad,' but Pokemon was popular for 3 or 4 years (in terms of all the media, I know the games are still generally played) before it died out. Things that hold this kind of popularity stuggle to last in my opinion.
Plus there's the whole thing that the Wii is just casual crap. But everyone knows that.

[Caael]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 17 2008, 09:01 AM, said:

Split, it doesn't matter which way you look at it. Even if Nintendo is telling off their fanbase, they still own the majority of the console market thanks to "casual gaming".

Unfortunately, they're dominating the market right now. So yes, they are holding up the console market.
They update it weekly from what I understand. Though it isn't always good.

Not in europe. I swear, since i signed in on my Wii during the summer to see if Majoras Mask was out, about 3 new games had been released and the last time i'd been on it before that was some time last year.

[Legolastom]

The 360 arcade version is actually cheaper than the Wii in Europe.

[Someone Else]

Wii has a bucketloads of sales and made a lot of money. end arguement

That said, people are selling their Wiis. Hopefully negative feedbacks brings Nintendo out of this 10 year long ****ty phase

[Drizzy Drake]

Aquamarine, on Sep 17 2008, 08:44 AM, said:

Toasty has a point. You can compain all you like about the games, but what matters and what determines the winner are console sales. And Nintendo is winning(for now at least).

But yeah... Nintendo does suck. They're screwing over their fanbase like nobody has done since Sony announced the pricing of the PS3.

The funny thing is Sony LOST money, and is still loseing money with every PS3 they sell, so the original price was actually good for what it could have been.

[TheEnglishman]

Caael, on Sep 17 2008, 03:33 PM, said:

Not in europe. I swear, since i signed in on my Wii during the summer to see if Majoras Mask was out, about 3 new games had been released and the last time i'd been on it before that was some time last year.

It is popular over here, just not with our generation. Look at games charts and they're dominated by Wii titles.

[Split Infinity]

Vanessa Hudgens, on Sep 18 2008, 05:17 AM, said:

The funny thing is Sony LOST money, and is still loseing money with every PS3 they sell, so the original price was actually good for what it could have been.

Didn't they pull out a bunch of features to balance out the price cuts?

[Drizzy Drake]

Not for the 80 Gig version. They did that with the 40 Gig though.

[Split Infinity]

I think they did it for all PAL systems.

[Drizzy Drake]

Oh? Kay. I just thought I heard that they only downgraded the 40 gig version.

[Split Infinity]

I'm not sure about the 80GB, we only just recently got it in Australia, but so far the only difference I know of is that it comes comes with a DS3 instead of a Sixaxis.

[Drizzy Drake]

Lack of PS2/PS1 combatability in the 40 gig versions. And some other stuff I think.

[Split Infinity]

All PS3's are PS1 compatible, it's built into the hardware.

[Drizzy Drake]

*googles*

so wait, some ps3's can play ps2 games, but ALL can play ps1 games? why the hell is this?

[Split Infinity]

This should explain it best:

http://en.wikipedia...._configurations

[Toasty]

It's because the PS1 is painfully easy to emulate with software (for a gaming console designed similarly to it), or painfully cheap to support with hardware. If you wanted to include an Emotion Engine in the PS3, it'd jack up the price by at least $50. Software emulation for a PS3 is cheap, but it takes a fair bit of resources.

Anyway, looks like PAL guys are best off scowering Ebay for a 60GB PAL PS3, and just buying a bigger 2.5" HDD to replace the 60GB it comes with.

As for NTSC, just demand that the guys at Gamestop ensure that your 80GB PS3 has "CECHE01" as it's model number.

[Split Infinity]

60GB should be enough for the average gamer for at least another two years.

If they bought it now, that is.

[Toasty]

If I were to store all of my media on it, I'd fill it up nearly twice over. That's not even considering all of the games and applications I might put on it. Besides, you can get a 120GB 2.5" drive for $60. Too bad the PS3 doesn't use 3.5" though. then you could get a 320GB for the same price.

[Split Infinity]

It's a gaming device, you're not supposed to copy your entire hard drive onto it.

[Toasty]

My entire hard drive would be about 270GB worth. That's spread over an 80GB (for the OS) SATA drive, and a 250GB (for media, programs, and miscleaneous files) IDE drive (because it's the largest drive I have).

My videos alone take up a bit more than 90GB.

[Split Infinity]

If you want to watch your videos on an HDTV you can always just stream them.

[Toasty]

Or I could just hook my computer directly up to my TV. But I don't want to have to turn on my computer just to stream video to my PS3.

[Split Infinity]

Well then, that's your problem isn't it. :(

And you won't be putting any games or applications on it unless you're trying to run Linux, it's not a full-blown operating system.

[Toasty]

No, but it can be hax'd. And Linux on a PS3 wouldn't be that bad of an idea.

[Split Infinity]

People have been running Linux on their PS3's for ages, even the PS2 had its own distribution. I highly doubt you could run XP at a decent speed though.

[Toasty]

wut. I thought I posted a response here already....

Anyway, I've known that for a while. I was merely stating that if I had a PS3, it wouldn't be that bad of an idea to install Linux on it.

XP was designed to run on the x86 architecture. You'd have to do some seriously heavy modding to XP's kernel to even hope of getting it to run, unless you emulated it in the PS3's Linux distro. Though I don't think even the PS3 would have enough oomph to emulate it properly.

Though since the origional Xbox was built around a modified Pentium 3 CPU, you could probably run XP, or at least Windows ME or something with minimal modifications to the kernel.