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#1   Max 

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    Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:00 PM

    I owe you all an explanation after what happened last week, so here it goes:

    Since the last server test (last year), a new version of Flash (the software used to develop GSW) has been released and the new version of my encryption program (which will remain unnamed) has been released. The combination of these two new releases has rendered the working version of GSW unusable, but I did not realize that until it was too late. I had spent so much effort trying to find a working server that I neglected proper testing of the game itself before announcing the server test last week.

    So now I have two options really: spend several weeks revamping the current version of GSW to work with the new software versions and release it as-is, or I can simply proceed on with the overhaul that AveneR and I had planned for GSW. Let me lay out the pro's and the con's and I'll let you all discuss and help decide:

    Revamping the current version would allow you all to play again within the next month or so, but it would just be another release of essentially the same game most of you have played before. The current incarnation of the GSW code is pretty limited, and thus it will be hard for me to release new features.

    AveneR and I had planned before the last server test to begin work on rewriting a large portion of the game engine and switch to a more robust version of the server software, allowing us to more easily add mini-games and other truly interactive features (such as battling sometime in the future). It would also allow us to have more believeable and GS-esque NPC characters which move around and interact with people like they do in the games instead of just standing around not even blinking. While all of this is certaintly exciting, it will of course take several months, meaning the next release probably would not be until early to mid summer.

    So those are the two choices, and I'd be happy to entertain questions, concerns, opinions, etc. in this thread. I wouldn't mind doing either option, though obviously the second will lead to a better game sooner. This game is for you all though, so I want your input before moving on.

    #2   Gamingstaff 

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      Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:05 PM

      well u could get everything ready for a new test for those of us who are n00bs to the game, and then just keep working on the updating.

      #3   Max 

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        Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:06 PM

        Hm, I guess I should have mentioned that in my post. The reality is that the second option will eventually occur, and the question is really whether you would like me to hold up development just to run another server test or would you rather me just skip it and have a real game ready for summer?

        #4   Gamingstaff 

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          Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:07 PM

          well, i really wouldn't mind it if it was delayed a little bit. None of us our going anywhere (if we truly are GS fans).

          #5   Someone Else 

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            Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:14 PM

            Tough choice. The way I see it is:

            1) If we revamp the current version, this will allow people who have yet to play GSW (like Split Infinity and Toasty) try it out in the server test next month.

            2) If we proceed with the overhaul, this will let you get some work done a bit faster and add in some much-needed features for that summer release. GSW was decent the way it was, but it needed some serious improvements, especially for object boundaries. It'd be awesome to see NPCs actually show some life. =D


            Personally, I think the overhaul is the best way to go at this time. But if enough people are impatient enough to try it again (with the revamp), I wouldn't mind. <_<

            #6   Blue 

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              Posted 22 February 2006 - 09:46 PM

              Well, I kinda want to play it real bad. I mean, it was the main reason why I joined the forums at first. I think if you let some of the newer people play an older version before you go with the upgrades.

              #7   Max 

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                Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:08 PM

                Blue, the problem is that none of the older versions will work unless I do the revamp work. That's why I'm asking for everyone's opinion. I understand that some people haven't played yet, but is it really worth playing a buggy, feature-less game in a month when you could play a fun, almost-beta-quality game in June? It's your call, but just keep in mind the tradeoffs.

                #8   Mars Djinni 

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                  Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:20 PM

                  The almost-beta quality caught my eye. It's worth the wait. I think I'd prefer it if you proceeded with development.

                  #9   Blink 

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                    Posted 22 February 2006 - 10:56 PM

                    I'm with WD and MD. I think I know what can come out of waiting til summer, and it sounds like it's well worth it. One minigame just isn't enough, and if you guys can get the overhaul done before the 2006 school year begins, that would just be awesome.

                    Realize this though, anyone who wants the server test sooner rather than later: If we get a server test now, it won't be nearly as good, and it'll be a mere three to five days. If we wait until summer, we'll not only get a revamp, but the server test will likely last an entire week, if not a two weekend week( 9 days, Saturday to following Sunday). So, it's really a matter of whether you want a higher quality server test, or a server test sooner.

                    I definately think it'll be worth the wait...

                    #10   Mars Djinni 

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                      Posted 22 February 2006 - 11:08 PM

                      Plus, for all the newcomers, it would be better for them to see an improved GSW, leagues better than the last tests.

                      #11   Blue 

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                        Posted 22 February 2006 - 11:51 PM

                        Yeah, I see the point there too. Just thought I'ld give a different view. I think I would enjoy playing something not too buggy.

                        #12   musicman2059 

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                          Posted 23 February 2006 - 02:28 AM

                          I say go on with development. At this rate, if you and avener pass up the opportunity to work on it, who knows when you'll have another one.

                          #13   Neon 

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                            Posted 23 February 2006 - 08:56 AM

                            Continue development. I don't see the logic in wasting time fixing the current GSW when that time would be better spent getting to work on the new version.
                            For anyone who says otherwise: Is 3 days of the current GSW worth the extra months of waiting for the real GSW?
                            I think not ;P

                            #14   Platinum Sun 

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                              Posted 23 February 2006 - 09:00 AM

                              A lot of people (and by "a lot of people" I mean me, and a couple other noobs I heard whining about this) missed the first server test and just want to play it and see what all the fuss is about. So I'd go with the first option, get it up now, and update it as we go along. Besides, it would probably be easier to update the software while the game is still small and simple, rather than doing it later when you've tacked on all the cool new features, as they will probably create problems as you code them for the newer software. And personally I don't mind playing an Alpha- release test game for awhile.

                              #15   Isaac702 

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                                Posted 23 February 2006 - 10:38 AM

                                Upgrade and have it done by later this year, even though i dont see why we cant do both, I presume you have a old copy still running on the old encryption and old flash program

                                #16   TheEnglishman 

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                                  Posted 23 February 2006 - 11:04 AM

                                  Hmm. Basically it's get an ok-ish game now or get a much better version a few months later.
                                  I can stand the wait. Compared to some games this is barely a delay.

                                  #17   Aquamarine 

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                                    Posted 23 February 2006 - 01:28 PM

                                    Even though I really want to play the game, even though I wouldn't mind playing a bit crapy version for a few days, even though I, just like Blue, became a member of these forums mostly because of GSW, even though I've never played it... I'll have to go for the second option.

                                    I've got school now, so GSW will probably make me study less(MUCH less) if it was to be released in a month. Also, I've waited for a lot of things for much longer than a few months and I think I could live with this being pushed. It's probably easier for you and Avener, Max.

                                    Oh, but please try and get it released in June. That would be perfect for me, because that's when my school finishes.

                                    #18   Max 

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                                      Posted 23 February 2006 - 02:11 PM

                                      Ok, let me clear up some things:

                                      Platinum Sun: No offense, but I think that I would know better what is "easy" for me to do, especially when it comes to developing complex games. The new modular engine will be magnitudes easier to add features on than the crappy version we have now. So that really isn't a valid argument, as development has to start over (almost) for the new version.

                                      Isaac702: While that would of course be a preferrable method, the game has to be recompiled every time the server is changed. Unfortunately, all the versons of GSW are currently pointing to a server which no longer exists, and thus are unusable.

                                      I said this in an earlier post but let me just repeat it in case people missed it: the code overhaul will happen regardless, but if I do a revamp of the current version it will take about a month and will delay the next release until the fall (past when school starts). I personally feel that it would be a better time investment to just move on, but I want to give everyone some time to think about it. I will have a poll up tomorrow after you all can discuss it some more.

                                      #19 Guest_seeviper_*

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                                      Posted 23 February 2006 - 03:50 PM

                                      I am still a noob who has never even played the old version. I woulnt mind waiting for the new version if i could look at the old verson first.

                                      #20   Max 

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                                        Posted 23 February 2006 - 05:28 PM

                                        seeviper, that is the whole point of this discussion. It is not possible to look at the old version without me spending a month making it work, which in turn will delay the new version.

                                        #21   Gamingstaff 

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                                          Posted 23 February 2006 - 08:11 PM

                                          Meh, is there no one here that could help you in any way to make it quicker? If not, I'll just have to wait till june.

                                          #22   Nick Presta 

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                                            Posted 23 February 2006 - 08:56 PM

                                            Max, wait until you can produce a semi-Beta version.

                                            Sure, it's fun to have an old version to play around with but we want progress, not more waiting in the long run.

                                            #23   Wiflewood 

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                                              Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:23 AM

                                              ^Ditto.

                                              I'd rather play a full game sooner than a 'demo' game now.

                                              #24   Toasty64 

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                                                Posted 24 February 2006 - 05:23 PM

                                                I haven't played it yet, but even I know it would be better to wait. I just hope the beta sever test will land in mid June or late July because I'm going on a cross country road trip from Washington to Tennesse this summer. I'll be gone for about 1-3 weeks.

                                                #25   gsninja 

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                                                  Posted 24 February 2006 - 05:54 PM

                                                  I think it would be better if we proceed with the overhaul. It would be better to play a GSW with more minigames, more lively NPCs, etc. If people get too impatient, I guess it would be cool to play in a month with the revamped version.

                                                  #26 Guest_seeviper_*

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                                                  Posted 25 February 2006 - 04:31 PM

                                                  View PostWiflewood, on Feb 24 2006, 04:23 AM, said:

                                                  ^Ditto.

                                                  I'd rather play a full game sooner than a 'demo' game now.

                                                  You stole my line! I LIKE PIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                                  3.14159265358979323846...

                                                  #27   PDM 

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                                                    Posted 26 February 2006 - 12:02 AM

                                                    Thanks for that spam.

                                                    I think we can wait.

                                                    Sort of like the moderators used to say...
                                                    [Cased Closed]

                                                    ... Until someone else has two cents to give us. O:

                                                    #28   Split Infinity 

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                                                      Posted 26 February 2006 - 03:57 AM

                                                      I think Max will be the one to decide when this topic has had it. But the matter does seem to be very one-sided.

                                                      #29   Max 

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                                                        Posted 26 February 2006 - 06:46 AM

                                                        Yes, it does appear that way. But I would like to keep it open to other people's input for at least another day or two.


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