[Platinum Sun]

All right. We need to clear the air about some election related stuff. I've seen some differing opinions about the 2000 election. So get it out there. I'm looking at you SoT, and WD.

[Sea of Time]

I still say 'The Next President' would've been a better topic.

Gore won the election. He won the popular vote, and because of some faulty ballots in Florida, he lost to Bush in the courts. The Supreme Court judges who oversaw those courts were all known to be Republican. What do you expect?

[Platinum Sun]

Sea_of_Time, on Jun 21 2006, 07:31 PM, said:

Gore won the election. Bush became the president.
The Supreme Court of Justice defied what the American people said, it's as simple as that.

That's the kind of talk that got this started. Yes Gore won the popular vote, which is a sham. The president is actually chosen by the electiral college. NOT the Supreme Court. The SC just denied Gore his pointless and demeaning hand recount.

[Sea of Time]

People didn't know how to vote using the 'butterfly' ballot. There are more seniors in Florida then there are in well...any state. Where would you want to go when you're 60!?! It was worth going to courts over and I believe that it was overseen unfairly.

[Platinum Sun]

If they truly did vote so incompetently, the results should've been thrown out. A re-vote (perhaps one with large-print ballots) would've been the only thing that could've solved that problem. But we can't do that.

A recount would've done nothing to correct for the damage done by voter cataracts. If the ballots were filled out incorrectly, staring at them will accomplish nothing so far as determining the true intent of the voters.

[Sea of Time]

So are you admitting to the possibility that Gore could've been the winner in Florida?

In any case, the courts were still predominantly Republican, and there is a good chance that they did not give a fair shake at the trial.

[Platinum Sun]

Sea_of_Time, on Jun 21 2006, 07:53 PM, said:

People didn't know how to vote using the 'butterfly' ballot. There are more seniors in Florida then there are in well...any state.

Allright fine. You were right when you said that the ballots were completely meaningless. Friggin' Nader could've won Florida. But you have no way of proving it.

[Someone Else]

Lotsa news sources said what SOT said. You can't prove that he's wrong either dude.

[Platinum Sun]

That's not what I take issue with. What gets me mad is that SoT blames the Supreme Court. They did NOT "give Bush the election" all they did was deny Gore a recount that would've solved nothing.

[Eugine]

In 2000 I was surprised Al Gore lost, I was hoping he won. I never really looked into the allegations, but the vote counting was surprisinly long.

[Sea of Time]

Well, I guess they needed their time to find who really won in Florida. Those butterfly ballots were not only hard to fill out, though, they were also hard to read.

I still think Al Gore won and I stand by that, even though others may disagree.

[My Best Wishes]

SoT aren't you candaidan anyway?

I'm inclined to agree with SoT though, I believe Bush didn't win that election. Of course I baise my opinion on Michael Moore's arguements.

[Aquamarine]

Yeah, I baise my opinion on Michael Moore's arguments too, because I'm positive what he says is true. And I agree that Bush did NOT win the elections. He did everything in his power to be the president.

And yes, SoT is candaidan. :P

[Platinum Sun]

Gore did everything in his power to become president too! That's what you do during an election. If you don't do everything possible to get elected, you won't get elected!
Look, if you've ever taken AP American history, you learn very fast that our system isn't perfect. (It's just better than yours! :P ) In an ideal world, the person best fit for the job would get elected. Yet no perfect world exists, so back here in reality, the person who's best at getting elected gets elected.

[Eugine]

America has like the worst government system. Everything is controlled by the Free Masons. Americans have no say in their country. It's known. :P

[Platinum Sun]

The Freemasons havn't existed in hundreds of years, if they ever existed at all. Most consider them to be a legend. To what group are you referring?
And we do have a say. I wish it could be a say in the legal process by legitimate legislative means, but we can settle for our First Amendment rights. Because if there's one thing we can do, it's protest stuff.

[Eugine]

ZOMG, you need to find out about those groups. The Free Masons is still alive and going strong. Controlling all the legistations of America and England.

George Bush is a known member, so is John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Queen Elizabeth, I think Tony Blair. So is all the top officials of all the big organisations, WTO, World Bank.

[Platinum Sun]

I've never heard anything remotely like that, and Google news turned up nothing. If they do indeed exist, they must be very good at whatever they're doing, and keeping it a secret.

[Toasty]

* sigh * Eugine, you don't even live in this country. Anyone 18 or older can vote, or petition to get an item on a ballet for voting. The best person for the job of the president may not always win, but he will do what the people who voted for him expected him to do...most of the time.

[Platinum Sun]

Platinum Sun, on Jul 3 2006, 09:07 AM, said:

In an ideal world, the person best fit for the job would get elected. Yet no perfect world exists, so back here in reality, the person who's best at getting elected gets elected.

I totally said that already... (Except for the yelling at Eugine part, w00t @ Toasty for that!) but thanks for agreeing with me.

[Toasty]

Your welcome. Some people just don't get how American politics work. No matter what a president does, a good chunk of the country will get mad at them, though with the exception of a few events. And then with the election of Washington States governor, she just kept asking for a recount untill she got her way.

[Platinum Sun]

That's why politicians have to be so evasive. If they give a straight yes then the half of the country that said no will be mad at them and vice versa.

[Toasty]

That's what has been happening with Bush and the War in Iraq. If he didn't do it, the country would be mad that he didn't do anything, since he did, now everybody's mad because of 10,000 dead US soldiers.

[Platinum Sun]

And there's nothing he can do to stop people from being mad at him. If he pulls out, people will be mad because he left a bombed-out Iraq in a state of chaos. And if he stays, people keep dying.

[Eugine]

Politics is the same everywhere you go, I know how it works; and I'm well equipped on American politics, I watch American TV everytime, speak to Americans and you can find practically everything on the net.

Also, I wasn't even talking about that Toasty, I was talking about the Free Masonic group which controls American politics. Don't believe me? You must start to watch the history channel and don't believe everything your history teacher teaches you.

Link removed because people are critising the "source" and not the information the source had. I'm really stupid myself I should have known it would have gotten that reaction because of the people who wrote it
http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous1.htm
http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous2.htm

Take some time and read through them. You'd be surprised how much American history revolves around it.
Also, if your mind is too weak, and need some enjoyment in understanding the Free Masons, watch "National Treasure", they have some basic information about it.

[Platinum Sun]

If indeed:

Quote

Freemasonry has its lodges throughout the free world. You'll find Masons meeting in almost every town and village and they're readily found.

Then how come I've never heard of it, ever?
You can't keep something that big hidden. Trust me our government has tried. I skimmed the mantra on the site. This is clearly a religious organization, which shoots down all its credibility right there.
Did you actually read the links you posted? The first thing is says under the "Who are we" link is:

Quote

We are a Christian nonprofit corporation founded upon the call of God to witness Jesus to those lost in Mormonism and other cults.

Call me naive, but that dosn't sound like a covert government subversion operation. And did you look at that list!? Very few of those people are still alive! (FYI: No one's going to be like: "ZOMG! they got the PM of Canada fron 80 years ago!")
This isn't even a good whacked conspiracy theory. And I live in America, so trust me, I've heard some awesome whacked conspiracy theories from mediums much more trustworthy than this.
I do watch the history channel. I saw the special on the Freemasons. They told the truth about the great and powerful freemasons who helped found America and then vanished about 150 years ago! It's time for you to stop believing everything you read on the internet and start listening to your history teacher.

[Eugine]

Well, I still stick to my views. Americans on a whole had little to do with the election of George Bush I and II and Bill Clinton. Maybe you don't want to believe it because every American feels they have a say in their country. Understandable, if someone told me Grenadian politics is fixed by a lodge I'd be skeptical.

Well, here's it an explanation of the Free Masons.
Free Masonry was established really around the time of King Solomon as a secret society for devout Christians; it remained so until an anti-religious group called the Illuminati infiltrated the Masonic Lodges to hide because the Vatican was trying to pin down on members to protect its religion. Doing so, the Illuminati *vanished*, many people believed the group disappeared, but it didn't.
Eventually, Free Masonry and Illuminati beliefs practically merged to become to modern Free Masonry we all know. Similar secret societies include the Skull and Bones, one which George Bush is a known member off. http://en.wikipedia....Skull_and_Bones

Eventually, after the conquest of the New World, high ranked Masons like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were awarded the option of controlling the New World (North America) and ensuring that the Masonic principles were established, yet hidden among normal, everyday people.
Examples were the US dollar and the American flag - yes, the flag.

American flag:
http://freemasonrywa...ics/us-flag.gif
http://freemasonrywa.../Franceflag.gif

Quote

The shield on the eagle's breast affirms by its colors, valor (red), purity (white), and justice (blue), and reminds the Mason of the cardinal virtues. The value of these colors suggests the perfect ashlar, or squared stone, of Freemasonry. One hundred and three is also the value of the noun BONAIM, a Rabbinical word signifying builders, Masons.

As you can see, it's either the Free Masons purposely made the American flag that way, or it's a HUGE coincidence. Choose which ever one you believe. There's alot more evidence, I just lost my links.

Dollar:
ftp://www.kena.org/h.../DOLLAR.EXP.txt
That link is pretty boring for me, so I can’t summarize. Read if interested.

Anyway, up to modern times. George Bush I was a known Skull and Bones member, always talking about a "new world order" in his speeches. Also, the Free Masonic case was closed by the CIA in George Bush time for lack of proof, but one can speculate he closed it on purpose to protect his society...

Anyway, so why am I posting this long post and why does it belong to this topic? I really wanted to make you Americans aware of the societies which is in your land, and frankly controls politics, of course I may not be correct, I'm just relaying what famous Historians and Masons wrote in books, on the internet. The "Al gored" topic has a twist to it, and please open your mind to possibilities, maybe this isn’t a fact, but it sure is possible.

[Platinum Sun]

If you had any reputable sources, I would give it a second thought. But as it is, I did you a favor by giving it a first thought. They said the case was closed due to lack of proof because they couldn't find any proof! And when the CIA can't find proof of something, it didn't happen. BTW, "Skull and Bones"? adding a new organization to your arsenal of improbability isn't going to help your case. What's next? The Knights Templar got Di ck Cheny's ear? :P
Corruption of our system is a reality, but not on an organized scale. It's always one guy (Ex. Abramoff) that's using their influence to siphon money/cover the past/ get-out-of-jail-free /buy drugs etc. Whoever it is, he's always alone. Politicians are way too selfish to coordinate their corruption. If they ever work together on a scam, they always sell eachother out. Our media crys bloody murder about legitamate political actions all the time. They'd never get away with anything of this scale under that microscope.

[Toasty]

And if you did the math, that would've had to have been President Bushes father, not him, in that group anyway because I doubt that our president is 75 or 80 years old.

[Eugine]

Well, who do you think I was talking about? Not the current President, the old President Bush; isn't that what he's called?

Anyway, I'm done with my conspiracy theories <_<

[Platinum Sun]

Well thank God that's over.

And yes, technically "George Bush" was the old one and "George W. Bush" is the new one. But if you just say "George Bush" people will assume that you're talking about the current one. To get the point across clearly, use "George Bush Sr." or "George H. W. Bush."