Palestine Or Israel Whos' the real victim?
#1
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:07 AM
For the religeous side of this, the bible says that the feud started between two half brothers. The older ones father wasn't married to the mother, so when the younger boy was born, and was favored by the mother and her husband ( the husband was favored in Gods eye), the older brother grew jealous. The older brother grew up to make the nation of Palestine, while God blessed the younger brother who grew up to make the nation of Israel. Now I don't know the bible like the back of my hand, but I know it went something like that. There feud, according to the bible started thousands of years ago at that point, and since, Palestine has been trying to conqer Israel. Now that's the biblical version, and I don't expect all of you to believe every word since you may not believe in God, but God said that they would always be at war with eachother to some extent, and the bible predicted the war that is going on now. Not to every detail, but predicted it none the less.
Comments and arguments are welcome, and please NO FLAMMING.
#2
Posted 04 August 2006 - 05:51 AM
I think both are severally in the wrong. Although the Jews have suffered a lot there’s no reason to act the way they do*.
I actually think it's a little immature. If they could sit down, at the U.N or wherever they feel like and just talk then there would be no more pieces in the news about the latest suicide bombing by a Palestine in Israel.
*-The media always represents them as the bad guys.
#3
Posted 04 August 2006 - 08:23 AM
There was conflict yes, but Israel didn't exist as a country until the end of WWII. What all this shooting is most immediately about is that land was taken from Palestine to make room for Jews that were displaced by the war. That's why the Palestinians started shooting. The ared forced that were formed in Israel were pledged to protect the refugees that moved in. (I know, refugees going in to Israel?) So they started shooting back.
There is no shuch thing as a long term solution, but stopping the shooting would be nice; and resolving immediate conflicts such as this could do that.
#4
Posted 04 August 2006 - 09:15 AM
#5
Posted 04 August 2006 - 11:06 AM
Now, I can't accurately justify the religious or historical background of the region yet (I'll save that for a future post). But for now, I believe the Palestinians have been terribly misrepresented to the public, and likewise the Israelis.
Why is it that the media always hides Palestinian deaths, but when a single Israeli casualty occurs, it becomes breaking news? Why is it when a suicide bomber kills one or two Israelis, he is condemnded, but when an Israeli soldier shoots at the heads and eyes of many young Palestinian children, it is either not shown to the public, or somehow, the Israeli soldier is always seen as "defending" himself?
Why can't the world see that Israel, with the most powerful air force and arms, is responsible for the destruction of countless Palestinian villages? Why is it that Israel has unjustly imprisoned over ten thousand Palestinian civilians, but when just two Israeli soldiers are captured, Israel is suddenly justified in sending in a huge military response?
#6
Posted 04 August 2006 - 12:05 PM
Hezbollah and the other terrorists groups wouldn’t stop their pitiless killing unless a tenacious military might is placed on them, and trust me this war extends outside of the Middle East, and this is why the international community isn’t forcing the war to stop. Disarming Hezbollah ultimately weakens Iran, Syria and other terrorist states as well as brings fear to disgusting groups like Al Qaeda, which threatens security in your own country everyday.
In wars, civilians will die for the greater good. Israel has tried to lessen the civilian death total by sending fliers warning villagers of air strikes, I myself can’t see why they remain.
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First of all, I assume you watch American television. Most Americans are Christians, or well, hate the terrorists in the Middle East. As far as they care, Palestine is the wrong one and deserves to punish because of groups like Hamas. Put on a Lebanese television and I’m sure you’d be seeing the opposite.
Secondly, the Palestinians praise the deaths, Israel doesn’t. The main reason most of those states exists is just to “wipe out Israel from the map”. I don’t know about you, but when someone sends this threat I’d do whatever it takes to prevent it. An old Bible proverb is “do unto others as you’d like them to do unto you.” Israel is finally doing what the terrorists do, rightfully and many people are condemning them.
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First of all, like I said Israel made sure they sent fliers to cities, those who put up a resistance will unfortunately and sadly pay, but you can’t condemn Israel when civilians themselves doesn’t really care if they die as long as they bring terror to Israel.
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I pretty much explained that already.
#7
Posted 04 August 2006 - 02:15 PM
Now then, you talk about Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, and other terrorist groups. Fine, they exist. No denying that. But at the same time, why are the Palestinians automatically associated with these terrorist groups? People use the terms "Palestinian" and "terrorist" synonymously, they don't give these people a chance.
Now, consider this: Why was it that dictators in the past (Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, and others) embraced at first? The reason is people need to feel protected. When the Palestinians see that their government can't prevent Israeli attacks, they turn to the only things they can do to protect their homelands. If that means throwing rocks, fine. If that means showing support for a "terrorist" group in order to protect their lives and their homeland, then so be it.
I'm sure you know the proverb "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". They see groups like Hamas and Hezbollah fighting against their hated enemy, Israel. What are they going to do? They can't condemn or oppose them, because doing so would leave them vulnerable!
Listen to me everyone. I recognize and agree that BOTH sides have done wrong. Both sides have done merciless acts of violence. But what I do NOT accept is how people simply refuse to acknowledge the possible motives behind the actions, and how people don't seem to understand that when a people is forced in a dire situation, they NEED to survive, one way or another.
#8
Posted 04 August 2006 - 02:23 PM
#9
Posted 04 August 2006 - 02:33 PM
And by siding with them, you honestly can't blame Israel for their deaths, by siding with the enemy of Israel I'm sure they knew the consequences well before they joined. They honestly don't care about their life so why should you bother? I was watching a special on BBC World on the war there, one civilian said, not quoting, death to Israel even if it involves taking my life.
#10
Posted 04 August 2006 - 02:43 PM
Eugine, on Aug 4 2006, 04:33 PM, said:
And by siding with them, you honestly can't blame Israel for their deaths, by siding with the enemy of Israel I'm sure they knew the consequences well before they joined. They honestly don't care about their life so why should you bother? I was watching a special on BBC World on the war there, one civilian said, not quoting, death to Israel even if it involves taking my life.
Eugine, I can't even imagine why you're talking like this. These people aren't randomly opposed to Israel, and these people are NOT resigned to simply dying because their enemy is Israel. They fight because it's a cause worth dying for.
And that's the problem there. What is causing them to resort to this? Who is ultimately forcing the Palestinian people to be prepared to do anything for their nation? Do you honestly think that Palestinians DON'T want to live? Israel is robbing them of any option of living their lives the way ANY human would want; without fear, without worry.
Eugine, I've seen multiple documentaries on this myself. Palestinians may kill, but Israelis murder and torture. They do things that COMPLETELY DE-HUMANIZE the Palestinians. It's beyond life and death. I even feel the word 'inhumane' is justified.
Now, beyond that last paragraph (which I will support with mutiple links; I already have some bookmarked), Eugine, all I'm asking you to consider is that the Palestinians have NO OTHER WAY; the reason they are willing to die for their nation is because, ONLY then will they ever have the hope of seeing their land liberated. And who is causing them to be this way? Who is giving this as the ultimatum for the Palestinians?
Israel.
#11
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:01 PM
You honestly can’t say the Palestinians are being oppressed because that’s just how they live, most are born in the conflict and accept it as their sole purpose on earth; accepting the norm rather than changing it. Whenever they side with the international community and oppose those terrorists groups I’d say that they’re being oppressed, right now I’d just say they’re living their life in the way they seem whole.
#12
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:12 PM
And opression isn't always that simple. Silent opression is the essence of terrorism. They're being opressed in the fact that their decision about who to side with is influenced by fear.
#13
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:14 PM
Platinum Sun, on Aug 4 2006, 05:12 PM, said:
And opression isn't always that simple. Silent opression is the essence of terrorism. They're being opressed in the fact that their decision about who to side with is influenced by fear.
That is my counter-argument, Eugine. Thanks again, Platinum Sun, couldn't have said it better myself.
#14
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:16 PM
#15
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:22 PM
Eugine, on Aug 4 2006, 05:16 PM, said:
I'm not sure what you're saying. Yeah there are very pronounced divisions between races, nationalities, and especially Islamic sects, but how does that relate to their opression by terrorism?
#16
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:27 PM
Racial and religious divisions bring about terrorism, that's the main reason why it exists infact. Unless, they can accept the fact that their beliefs and colours are different and unite (like the USA you live in, filled with different racial barriers, yet you guys communicate) themselves, unity with other countries is about hopeless, especially Israel, since their beliefs, race and thoughts are conflicting to the max.
#17
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:44 PM
#18
Posted 04 August 2006 - 03:48 PM
But elsewhere, and especially in the Middle East, religion is, for the most part, the standard by which people live. There is no clear distinction between the two, religion dictates the moral principles of life. That is one reason (but not the only reason) that terror and oppression occurs, when people differ on their account of how life is and the moral principles that go along with it (such as having opposing religions).
When you say "unite", Eugine, you mean it, by default, the way it exists in Western civilization. But it's different there. By "uniting" in that sense, they would effectively have to forfeit the justification of their faiths.
Ultimately, there is no compromise in religion and race.
EDIT: Just read Platinum Sun's post... Essentially, yes, the West can't understand the extend to which religion and morals dictate life elsewhere. That is why, to us, a simple solution is always Hey, how about a cease-fire? And guess what, we'll throw in an international peacekeeping force too.... The fact is, it's not that simple, and this is why the USA and others aren't capable of truly bringing peace to the region.
And now, I have to leave. I too am getting tired from this... but we'll definitely resume this soon.
#19
Posted 04 August 2006 - 04:50 PM
I just have to underline that difference in the importance of religion that GL mentioned. Here, if you look at official forms, more and more people are leaving the religion spot blank. For some reason, religion loses clout and significance in modernized countries. (Most likely because science tends to conflict with the miracles mentioned in most religious texts.) A lot of people say that they're religious, but it's obvious that they don't practice much, and it's not that important to them.
I'm christian, but I'm hard-pressed to name six of the apostles. I asked a Jewish friend of mine once. He only knew four commandments, and Judaism is one of the more demanding religions. The fact is: no one here is willing to die for their religion, so we resolve such disputes with words. However, in the Middle-East the extreme and absolute importance of religion is ingraned since childhood.
Being part of a religion there also means you have to believe everything your religion teaches. That's not true here. I believe in the Bible's moral teachings, and the validity of using it as a guide to life decisions. Do I believe all the stuff about the miracles and smiting and God telling people to do stuff for him? No way! But this is America. I'm allowed to have partial faith in my religion. Not so in the Middle East. They have to believe everything or it's considered sacrelidge, and if their religion is indeed the one and only ultimate truth, that means all other religions are wrong.
My fingers are turning purple, more on this tomarrow.
#20
Posted 05 August 2006 - 01:35 AM
#21
Posted 05 August 2006 - 11:25 AM
(Not an elaborate post compared to all the other ones I've posted in this topic, but ah well).
EDIT: Added in official poll.
#22
Posted 07 August 2006 - 12:58 AM
I believe god made a convenmant to Abraham or Jacob or someone, pretty much saying this land will always belong to your childern, and when the Jew's left some other tribe moved in or something.
Pretty vauge I know but hopefully you guys understand what I'm trying to say here...
And could someone add a option to the poll if you believe both are wrong?
#23
Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:51 AM
And also, people forget one thing; Abraham, Jacob, even Moses; they are also prophets in Islam!
People automatically assume that those prophets are a strict part of only Jewish faith, but Muslims (and thus Palestinians) also believe in them. I'll look into this a bit further, but definitely, based on religious roots, the Palestinians have just as much right (and in my opinion, more right) as the Israelis to the land.
#24
Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:54 AM
#25
Posted 08 August 2006 - 10:30 PM
#26
Posted 08 August 2006 - 10:52 PM
Mr.T, on Aug 9 2006, 12:30 AM, said:
I can't believe people are still being blinded by what they *think* occurred in the Gaza Strip.
All right, so let's begin: The Gaza Strip.
The Israeli "withdrawl" from the Gaza Strip was an example of how cunning they are. I'll give them credit for that. Now, they see that the Gaza Strip is heavily populated by Palestinians (because they were forced there, let me remind you). They see that having soldiers there accomplishes little as a result. So what do they do?
They withdraw their soldiers to fight in other problematic areas of the region (now, it's Lebanon). However, it's a double-edged sword. They fool the world into thinking they are giving the Palestinians "a nation"?
How is it that giving less than 2% of the land to the Palestinians justifies all that they've done to them? How is it that the world believes that the Palestinian people should be CONTENT WITH, AND JUST ACCEPT, SUCH A SMALL PORTION OF THE LAND?
The Israelis withdrew their soldiers to *show* the world that they are "willing" to give the Palestinians land, when all they've done WEAKEN THE ARGUMENT FOR THE PALESTINIANS RIGHT TO THE LAND! Just think about it. People see this nice gesture from Israel, and then all of a sudden, they begin to say "So shouldn't the conflict end? Shouldn't the Palestinians be happy? Why are they still fighting?
Don't you see? By withdrawing from Gaza, Israel VERY CUNNINGLY AND DEVIOUSLY created a NEW ARGUMENT TO SUPPORT ITSELF, and can now say to the world "Look what we did, isn't that ENOUGH?"
And all of a sudden, the Palestinians should just completely REVOKE and FORGET THEIR CLAIM TO THE LAND?
(And to make matters worse, WHY ARE THE ISRAELIS BACK IN GAZA?)
Furthermore, guess what? The Qu'ran also promised the land to the ancestors of the Palestinian people and guess what else? The Qu'ran also predicted this very same conflict! So your argument that "The Bible Says, It should be so" is irrelevant, because the Palestinians ALSO have those SAME religious ties to the region.
#27
Posted 08 August 2006 - 11:31 PM
And in the war where Israel gained the Gaza strip, which they Miraculously won in 6 days against 5 (or three, can't remember ) countries who opposed them, they only gained the Gaza strip from Palestine. Nothing more. They're are only giving back what they fairly took in a war. Why should they give them any more? Besides all of that, it doesn't matter if you give the Palestinians money, or land, or anything else. You could give them the country of Israel, but as long as the Israelis still live, they will not be content. They've proved that over the years.
#28
Posted 09 August 2006 - 07:11 AM
Mr.T, on Aug 9 2006, 01:31 AM, said:
And in the war where Israel gained the Gaza strip, which they Miraculously won in 6 days against 5 (or three, can't remember ) countries who opposed them, they only gained the Gaza strip from Palestine. Nothing more. They're are only giving back what they fairly took in a war. Why should they give them any more? Besides all of that, it doesn't matter if you give the Palestinians money, or land, or anything else. You could give them the country of Israel, but as long as the Israelis still live, they will not be content. They've proved that over the years.
1) Actually, you're wrong on that account. You see, if there is one thing Muslims know, it's that their Holy Book has not been tampered with. The Qu'ran as it is today is the same as it was when it was first revealed. However, the Bible has gone through considerable changes (just look, there are even different versions of it). So I ask then, how can we be sure what God's actual words are? At least with the Qu'ran, I know for certain.
2) This is a key point everyone keeps missing; Muslims believe in other prophets besides Mohammad, and in fact all the key prophets in Christianity and Judaism ALSO EXIST in Islam doctrine.
Do you know what this means? It means that Muslims believe those prophets were originally set out to deliver the Muslim message of God. In other words, Muslims believe that Moses, Jesus, etc. where sent by their God (Allah) under their own beliefs. Thus, the argument that you have is negligible, because you can make a religious case from either point.
3) You mean the Six Day War in 1967? The one during which the United States OVERWHELMINGLY GAVE MILITARY SUPPLIES AND SUPPORT TO ISRAEL?
And you are MISTAKEN: Israel took the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula (from Egypt), The Golan Heights (from Syria), and not to mention the West Bank.
Review your history, Israel occupied all that land and more.
4)
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God, that is the most irrational statement ever in this context. Think about it. The problem in the Middle East isn't "Why isn't Israel giving back land?" so much as it is "Why is Israel even there IN THE FIRST PLACE, on land that IS CLAIMED, and BELONGS TO, the Palestinians?
You're talking as if IT'S BEEN ACCEPTED that the LAND BELONGS TO ISRAEL, and it's not accepted; it's the very source of the conflict itself.
5)
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Over what years? The years where the Palestinians have barely had food or water to live on, the years in which they have had to fight for their survival, the years in which they have been oppressed and dehumanized?
The fight is ultimately for the LAND. And whoever occupies THEIR LAND will be THEIR ENEMY.
#29
Posted 09 August 2006 - 06:43 PM
Golden Legacy, on Aug 9 2006, 06:11 AM, said:
And you are MISTAKEN: Israel took the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula (from Egypt), The Golan Heights (from Syria), and not to mention the West Bank.
5)
Over what years? The years where the Palestinians have barely had food or water to live on, the years in which they have had to fight for their survival, the years in which they have been oppressed and dehumanized?
The fight is ultimately for the LAND. And whoever occupies THEIR LAND will be THEIR ENEMY.
And here comes the point where you are actually wrong.
First off, I understand that they took more than the Gaza strip, but what areas did they take that Palestinians occupied? And what did they give back? And on top of that, even with the two forces combined it was highly unlikely that the Israelis could have won in such a short amount of time.
And secondly, the US has given the Palestinians money, at least once before, and enough to bring them out of poverty and such too. Instead, their leader took it and made a palace in France for his wife. He is also the one in charge of the Palestinian military, and he is definately not fighting to bring his people out of poverty. And the fact that it is their land has nothing to do with it. It's just a cover for the news that they use to hide their ambitions of destroying the Israelis
#30
Posted 09 August 2006 - 08:56 PM
Mr.T, on Aug 9 2006, 08:43 PM, said:
First off, I understand that they took more than the Gaza strip, but what areas did they take that Palestinians occupied? And what did they give back? And on top of that, even with the two forces combined it was highly unlikely that the Israelis could have won in such a short amount of time.
And secondly, the US has given the Palestinians money, at least once before, and enough to bring them out of poverty and such too. Instead, their leader took it and made a palace in France for his wife. He is also the one in charge of the Palestinian military, and he is definately not fighting to bring his people out of poverty. And the fact that it is their land has nothing to do with it. It's just a cover for the news that they use to hide their ambitions of destroying the Israelis
1) No my good sir, my facts remain true. The Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, and the West Bank; ALL had Palestinian refugees. Some admittedly more than others (the Palestinians were concentrated in Gaza and the West Bank) but by no means were those the ONLY locations they had to escape to.
2) And secondly, what you just said actually VALIDATED one of my earlier points that you wouldn't concede to (well actually, it was Eugine, but...)
Arafat is a clear example of why the Palestinians can't rely on their actual government. You are right; he did use it for his own personal gain. And at what expense? The Palestinians. And thus, seeing that their government had failed, they turned to the aforementioned terrorist groups because they were forced to rely on the forces that would ACTUALLY DEFEND THEM and DO SOMETHING FOR THEM.
#31
Posted 09 August 2006 - 11:59 PM
#33
Posted 10 August 2006 - 04:06 PM
And frankly, I can't think of any other solution. Both sides are arrogant about the issue.
#34
Posted 10 August 2006 - 04:11 PM
Based on what Eugine just posted (that neither side will ever accept the other's religious or historical claim to the land), we must know ask ourselves...
Why is the media in support of Israel? Why do a lot of people (especially here in the USA) believe so strongly in Israel's claim to the land, when here we just demonstrated that the Palestinians have an equally strong claim as well? It isn't fair, and it isn't justified.
But I agree Eugine; a temporary solution will have to be focusing on the present.
#35
Posted 10 August 2006 - 04:18 PM
Or well, most terrorism comes from the Middle East, they just want a reason to hate them or well, oppose.
#36
Posted 10 August 2006 - 04:50 PM
#37
Posted 10 August 2006 - 05:03 PM
And yet, no one one condemns Israel for it.
#38
Posted 10 August 2006 - 05:21 PM
#39
Posted 10 August 2006 - 07:47 PM
For example GL, a weapon lets say your hand will most likely be used differently if it was in a banned member.
#40
Posted 10 August 2006 - 08:22 PM
#41
Posted 10 August 2006 - 10:40 PM
#42
Posted 11 August 2006 - 12:39 AM
#43
Posted 11 August 2006 - 12:47 AM
#44
Posted 11 August 2006 - 08:28 AM
I'm going to quote two of my recent posts here.
Golden Legacy, on Aug 4 2006, 04:15 PM, said:
Now then, you talk about Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, and other terrorist groups. Fine, they exist. No denying that. But at the same time, why are the Palestinians automatically associated with these terrorist groups? People use the terms "Palestinian" and "terrorist" synonymously, they don't give these people a chance.
Now, consider this: Why was it that dictators in the past (Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, and others) embraced at first? The reason is people need to feel protected. When the Palestinians see that their government can't prevent Israeli attacks, they turn to the only things they can do to protect their homelands. If that means throwing rocks, fine. If that means showing support for a "terrorist" group in order to protect their lives and their homeland, then so be it.
I'm sure you know the proverb "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". They see groups like Hamas and Hezbollah fighting against their hated enemy, Israel. What are they going to do? They can't condemn or oppose them, because doing so would leave them vulnerable!
Listen to me everyone. I recognize and agree that BOTH sides have done wrong. Both sides have done merciless acts of violence. But what I do NOT accept is how people simply refuse to acknowledge the possible motives behind the actions, and how people don't seem to understand that when a people is forced in a dire situation, they NEED to survive, one way or another.
Golden Legacy, on Aug 4 2006, 04:43 PM, said:
Eugine, I can't even imagine why you're talking like this. These people aren't randomly opposed to Israel, and these people are NOT resigned to simply dying because their enemy is Israel. They fight because it's a cause worth dying for.
And that's the problem there. What is causing them to resort to this? Who is ultimately forcing the Palestinian people to be prepared to do anything for their nation? Do you honestly think that Palestinians DON'T want to live? Israel is robbing them of any option of living their lives the way ANY human would want; without fear, without worry.
Eugine, I've seen multiple documentaries on this myself. Palestinians may kill, but Israelis murder and torture. They do things that COMPLETELY DE-HUMANIZE the Palestinians. It's beyond life and death. I even feel the word 'inhumane' is justified.
Now, beyond that last paragraph (which I will support with mutiple links; I already have some bookmarked), Eugine, all I'm asking you to consider is that the Palestinians have NO OTHER WAY; the reason they are willing to die for their nation is because, ONLY then will they ever have the hope of seeing their land liberated. And who is causing them to be this way? Who is giving this as the ultimatum for the Palestinians?
Israel.
#45
Posted 11 August 2006 - 10:00 AM
#46
Posted 11 August 2006 - 10:03 AM
#48
Posted 11 August 2006 - 11:47 AM
I think it's safe to agree to disgree on the matter in the poll. And I think that sums it up fairly well PS.
#49
Posted 11 August 2006 - 01:12 PM
Mr.T, on Aug 11 2006, 01:47 PM, said:
And the same holds true for the Muslims, in what is said in their Qu'ran (the same, except with the Palestinians).
Again, PS summed it up perfectly well, and I think it's worth repeating.
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#50
Posted 11 August 2006 - 05:12 PM
Fist of all, you don't know when the conflict started, it was there LONG before documented history. IF you don't use religious texts you have NO idea what, where, who started the conflict and when it started. If you do, enlighten me.
Secondly, if you say that, many conflicts were started by USA. Do you honestly believe destroying USA will end the problems? No, they'd find other problems to create.
Finally, if you think destroying a well extablished country like Israel will stop this conflict, you're screwed.
#51
Posted 11 August 2006 - 05:25 PM
#52
Posted 12 August 2006 - 01:53 AM
#53
Posted 14 August 2006 - 02:40 AM
But I do believe what you're saying Watch.
#54
Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:44 PM
#55
Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:32 PM
At any rate, we've been through this argument. If you'd bothered to read through this topic a bit, you'd realize that the Palestinians believe their ancestors were there first, and likewise for the Jews.
Therefore, we can't say who deserves the Holy Land just based on that.
Simple as that.
#56
Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:38 PM
#57
Posted 23 August 2006 - 02:32 PM
And I agree with that GL, it can't be decided by that, unless there is solid proof that one was there before the other. That being said, I still say that Israel should stay.
#58
Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:19 PM
I just find it hard to believe that people can't see which side is suffering more; which side has tanks and advanced weaponry, things that the Palestinians can't match? Which side emplys humanitarian means of defeat, such as cutting off food and water supplies, bulldozing (sp?) down Palestinian homes, and giving them no home?
And worst of all, Israelis kill and aim for children. Palestinians never employ such tactics.