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Hating America The new world sport

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What do you think of America?

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#1   Platinum Sun 

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    Posted 01 September 2006 - 09:28 PM

    Allright. I admit it. America has a really bad image in the eyes of the rest of the world. I want to see just how widely held that view is.
    So you non-American members, what do you think of America?

    And; my fellow americans: (I couldn't resist :blink:)
    What do you think of what they think about you... etc.

    #2   Eugine 

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      Posted 01 September 2006 - 11:09 PM

      Uh, I don't hate America, but I dislike most of the decisions the American government is making and the wastage most Americans are guilty off.

      #3   Split Infinity 

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        Posted 01 September 2006 - 11:13 PM

        Aside from the political turmoil, I think America's alright. I especially love their accents. :blink:

        #4   Toasty 

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          Posted 02 September 2006 - 12:43 AM

          Yes. All 500,000 of them. [/sarcasm] I love America, and am american. Nuf said.

          #5   Caael 

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            Posted 02 September 2006 - 01:50 AM

            America is alright. But doesnt it seem to always be the target of all the attacks? 9/11? The terrorist threats? It does cause unneccisary problems for the rest of the world.

            I have a friend who DESPISES America. C'mon, lots of people have issues with America, but thie ' friend' has never been there in his life, he doesnt know anything about their politics, apart from the fact that Bush cant run a country.

            #6   Toasty 

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              Posted 02 September 2006 - 02:45 AM

              I'd argue that Bush can run a country, but that's not what were discussing here.

              #7   Lemontime 

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                Posted 02 September 2006 - 03:32 AM

                After being to america, it's a great place! Everyone's really friendly and they don't seem like they're only somewhere because they have to.
                Like when I walk into any EB games they always go "Hey, welcome to EB Games! I'm *insert name here*! How are you?".

                Americas great.
                The government ain't.

                #8   Split Infinity 

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                  Posted 02 September 2006 - 03:35 AM

                  My friend said that when he was in America, some guy came up to his family:

                  American: Hey, are you Australians?

                  Friend: Yes...

                  American: Cool! Can you talk like Steve Irwin?

                  #9   Lemontime 

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                    Posted 02 September 2006 - 03:38 AM

                    Mhmm. Everyone was fascinated by us being Australian. They were all:
                    "Oh my god are you ossie?! WOW! That's so cool!"
                    Then they'd go on about an 'Ossie' they once knew or some junk.

                    #10   Caael 

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                      Posted 02 September 2006 - 03:49 AM

                      America see's everybody as a stereotype. Which is a bit annoying. In the simpsons, England is depicted as a place where everybody has bad teeth, all speak really posh ect.

                      #11   TheEnglishman 

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                        Posted 02 September 2006 - 06:32 AM

                        I guess I don't hate America but I don't like it either. The main reason is the stereotypes they have about everyone else (especially people like us from Britain). They always portray as posh people who drink tea and all that junk. Plus any American movie just happens to have a British person as the main villain. What an odd coincidence. I also dislike American humour. It's crappy in my opinion. I also feel that they push into other peoples affairs, but that's a point which has been raised a thousand times and doesn't need to be argued again.

                        #12   Split Infinity 

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                          Posted 02 September 2006 - 06:36 AM

                          I find that English movies have good acting but bad scripts, while American movies have good scripts but bad acting.

                          I hate Snakes on a Plane.

                          #13   FlamingDuck 

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                            Posted 02 September 2006 - 06:43 AM

                            Snakes on a Plane is marketing genious though!

                            Anyway, I like America. 'Cause I live here. But its weird. All my friends aquaintences seem to hate the US. Like there's this one really annoying guy(you know, one of those "LET ME JOIN THE ARMY!11!!" types) who wants to move to Europe and bomb us. Which I don't get, because he's trying to join he army? Whatever. But Everyone else hates Bush. Except for me. I don't really pay much attention to what's going on, mostly cause my local news is horribly, horribly skewed.

                            #14   TheEnglishman 

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                              Posted 02 September 2006 - 06:47 AM

                              There is one other thing I dislike about America. Their feeling of patriotism (Man is that even a word?) Basically when ever I see somebody shouting 'GOD BLESS AMERICA!' It looks so forced and unreal. In England though, the feeling is more real and less forced. Like at the World Cup everyone chose to be behind England, rather than feel they had to support them. That's my opinion anyway.

                              #15   Platinum Sun 

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                                  Posted 02 September 2006 - 07:38 AM

                                Agreed. Patriotism is kind of forced here. I always get that felling when I watch European soccer. I always wondered why the fans were so into it, starting riots, assaulting refs, flipping cars, throwing flaming garbage and whatnot... But then I realized that these soccer rivalries go all the way back to the middle ages when the Germans assassinated the English king and paraded his severed head through the streets on pikes. I can never get enough of that one game where the English fans started chanting to the German fans. ("If you won the war stand up!" There's no comeback for that!!)

                                View PostSplit Infinity, on Sep 2 2006, 08:36 AM, said:

                                I hate Snakes on a Plane.


                                BLASPHEMY!!!

                                #16   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                  Posted 02 September 2006 - 08:02 AM

                                  OMG Im currently on the phone with my friend talking about America. XD I dont hate America, but the main image I have about it in my head is selfish and arrogant. I know not all Americans are this way, but this image mostly comes thanks to Bush.

                                  #17   TheEnglishman 

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                                    Posted 02 September 2006 - 09:23 AM

                                    View PostPlatinum Sun, on Sep 2 2006, 02:38 PM, said:

                                    Agreed. Patriotism is kind of forced here. I always get that felling when I watch European soccer. I always wondered why the fans were so into it, starting riots, assaulting refs, flipping cars, throwing flaming garbage and whatnot... But then I realized that these soccer rivalries go all the way back to the middle ages when the Germans assassinated the English king and paraded his severed head through the streets on pikes. I can never get enough of that one game where the English fans started chanting to the German fans. ("If you won the war stand up!" There's no comeback for that!!)
                                    BLASPHEMY!!!

                                    It's hard to believe that the Government were trying to stop English fans from doing chants like that. It's part of what makes people feel proud of their country (even at the expense of another).

                                    #18   Someone Else 

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                                      Posted 02 September 2006 - 11:14 PM

                                      Aw damn, I once showed you guys a great page about America but now I can't find it.

                                      Anyway:

                                      The only problem with America is that we have some pretty bad leaders. Our politics and government sucks ass pretty much. But other than that, America is a damn good country.

                                      And America is NOT a big wasteful country. In fact, we're getting a lot better. It's not like we can change to be a very clean country in one day. Cut us some slack; we're human. It's not like frikkin' China isn't making a lot of pollution, why are we the only ones getting the finger?

                                      As for America stereotyping other countries... what, it's not like you don't stereotype us to be an uneducated, ranting, overweight, and terribly patriotic group. :D Besides, doesn't Britain stereotype itself all the time? (Monty Python/Blackadder, anyone?)

                                      As for being selfish and arrogant. We think a lot about other countries, so I don't know where you got that selfish bit, DK... as for arrogance, I guess we do throw our big Military weight around a bit. BUT if we didn't, a lot of countries would be at each others throats. And I'm sure most of you know what countries I'm thinking of.

                                      #19   Bexie 

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                                        Posted 03 September 2006 - 06:03 AM

                                        I'm English. I've been brought up to hate America.

                                        I am one of those people who loves the British saying that was going around during the Second World War: "Damn Yanks. They're overpaid, oversexed, and over here!"

                                        That was a brilliant phrase. ^^

                                        #20   TheEnglishman 

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                                          Posted 03 September 2006 - 07:37 AM

                                          View PostBexie, on Sep 3 2006, 01:03 PM, said:

                                          I'm English. I've been brought up to hate America.

                                          I am one of those people who loves the British saying that was going around during the Second World War: "Damn Yanks. They're overpaid, oversexed, and over here!"

                                          That was a brilliant phrase. ^^

                                          I've got to say I've never heard that before. Brilliant. :D
                                          Still, and this comes with grim reluctance, I think the War would have been a lot more difficult for Britain had America not assisted them. Still they won't shut up about it now. They're all like 'Hey remember when we saved you guys in the war?' and we're all like 'That was 60 years ago. What have you done for us recently?' and they're all like '...'. Yeah.

                                          #21   Split Infinity 

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                                            Posted 03 September 2006 - 07:40 AM

                                            Would I be right in the belief that Australia is seen as a friendly and generally neutral country in the eyes of the world?

                                            #22   TheEnglishman 

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                                              Posted 03 September 2006 - 08:21 AM

                                              Apart from when it comes down to playing England in the Ashes :D , I think that would be true.

                                              #23   Platinum Sun 

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                                                  Posted 03 September 2006 - 08:52 AM

                                                View PostSplit Infinity, on Sep 3 2006, 09:40 AM, said:

                                                Would I be right in the belief that Australia is seen as a friendly and generally neutral country in the eyes of the world?


                                                Yeah Austrailia is always uber neutral. They're the only country whose economy dosn't operate on a giant national debt. This is probably because they never do anything interesting prefer not to interefere in the affairs of other countries.

                                                #24   Mindpatch 

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                                                  Posted 03 September 2006 - 11:03 AM

                                                  I don't think you can generally hate a country. Sure it has bad sides but also good ones, and the goverment isn't always f*cked up. Indifferent for me.

                                                  #25   FlamingDuck 

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                                                    Posted 03 September 2006 - 12:26 PM

                                                    PS, a lot of our national debt is from bonds and such. We have to pay off ourselves.

                                                    #26   Someone Else 

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                                                      Posted 03 September 2006 - 01:49 PM

                                                      View PostBexie, on Sep 3 2006, 07:03 AM, said:

                                                      "Damn Yanks. They're overpaid, oversexed, and over here!"
                                                      Which is funny because Europeans tend to have more sex than Americans do. And you guys also get paid more, but stuff is cheaper over here. :D

                                                      #27   TheEnglishman 

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                                                        Posted 03 September 2006 - 03:10 PM

                                                        View PostWind Dude, on Sep 3 2006, 08:49 PM, said:

                                                        Which is funny because Europeans tend to have more sex than Americans do. And you guys also get paid more, but stuff is cheaper over here. :D

                                                        It's not a current phrase WD. As Bexie said it was from the Second World War. It doesn't have any bearing on modern day times. Don't take it too seriously.

                                                        #28   My Best Wishes 

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                                                          Posted 04 September 2006 - 01:20 AM

                                                          Me111-Don't bring Cricket into this :D

                                                          I don't like America on a broad scale. However, if you dig down I do feel the sterotypes to most Americans as: uneducated, hateful, fat, etc etc etc the complients just keep piling on. I think my main beef againest America is the current government and all the ****headish greedy companies (Enron anyone)? I think the best you guys could do is vote in Oprah or Mike Moore.

                                                          #29   Split Infinity 

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                                                            Posted 04 September 2006 - 01:43 AM

                                                            According to Guinness, the world's least corrupt country as of 2004 is Finland. Not that much of a surprise, is it?

                                                            #30   Someone Else 

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                                                              Posted 04 September 2006 - 11:28 AM

                                                              I don't understand how we're hateful.

                                                              #31   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                Posted 04 September 2006 - 03:33 PM

                                                                If we're gonna start that we could go all the way back in the 1800's and discuss the Native Indians.
                                                                I think it's just all the crimes and shootings. Comlbine, Oaklahoma bombing and stuff.

                                                                #32   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                  Posted 04 September 2006 - 05:15 PM

                                                                  There's crime and shooting all over the world. America just has better news coverage.

                                                                  #33   Someone Else 

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                                                                    Posted 04 September 2006 - 07:57 PM

                                                                    Well, England in general doesn't exactly have a loving history, either.

                                                                    #34   FlamingDuck 

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                                                                      Posted 04 September 2006 - 07:58 PM

                                                                      Happy slappy, anyone? I hear the reason that didn't come to America is because you never know who might be carrying a gun.

                                                                      #35   Someone Else 

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                                                                        Posted 04 September 2006 - 08:02 PM

                                                                        Texas gives it's citizens a right-to-bear-arms. I'm not sure of what other states allow it, but I know Texas does. -_-

                                                                        #36   Eugine 

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                                                                          Posted 04 September 2006 - 09:11 PM

                                                                          Stupes PS, Americans find news ANYWHERE, the news reporters are pompous enough (American nature it seems?), and BBC is probably the best news channel in the world, they bring unbiased news practically everytime.

                                                                          But yeah, it's pretty obvious that the American news channel will forcus on the American crimes, Americans really want to see what's happening in their background rather than others, who wouldn't...

                                                                          #37   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                              Posted 04 September 2006 - 09:44 PM

                                                                            View PostWind Dude, on Sep 4 2006, 10:02 PM, said:

                                                                            Texas gives it's citizens a right-to-bear-arms. I'm not sure of what other states allow it, but I know Texas does. -_-


                                                                            Right to beat arms is the second Amendment to the Constitution. (which I hear is quite popular across the country. :P) So all states grant the right to bear arms.

                                                                            #38   Someone Else 

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                                                                              Posted 05 September 2006 - 04:17 PM

                                                                              Oh right, I forgot about that one... well, California doesn't take advantage of that Amendment much. -_-

                                                                              Texas sure does love it's shotguns, though.

                                                                              #39   Toasty 

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                                                                                Posted 05 September 2006 - 04:31 PM

                                                                                XDD

                                                                                Eugine, that, is stereotyping. Not ALL news networks are like that. Usually, that's just what people see in the movies. The invasive reporter trying to get you tell something personal in an insensitive way or whatnot. Yeah, that happens, but besides that, networks like Fox News, regardless of what some of you idiots say, is not biased. Yes, they tend to be Pro Republican sometimes, but look at CNN. They're Pro Democrat ALL the time. If something bad happens that a Republican is responsible for, they don't care if it was an acident or whatever. They cut out all the "non-interesting" stuff, and only use the "interesting stuff". Which usually turns out to be incriminating or something. And for those of you who say that Fox doesn't give "accurate" news, but instead gives fake reports, I have a question for you. How the hell does a news network survive if their coverage isn't true?

                                                                                #40   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                  Posted 05 September 2006 - 06:00 PM

                                                                                  I don't hate America, but I do disagree with the current American government and they're addiction with war and throwing around money they don't have.

                                                                                  #41   Bexie 

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                                                                                    Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:35 AM

                                                                                    View PostMe111, on Sep 3 2006, 02:37 PM, said:

                                                                                    I've got to say I've never heard that before. Brilliant. -_-
                                                                                    Still, and this comes with grim reluctance, I think the War would have been a lot more difficult for Britain had America not assisted them. Still they won't shut up about it now. They're all like 'Hey remember when we saved you guys in the war?' and we're all like 'That was 60 years ago. What have you done for us recently?' and they're all like '...'. Yeah.


                                                                                    Bah, I bet we could have won the war without them. Sure, it might have taken a bit longer, but we could have done it.
                                                                                    Besides, America didn't show their faces in the war until a few years after it started. Policy of isolationism, anyone?
                                                                                    They only joined because the Japanese bombed Pearl Habour. If they hadn't have done that, America would never have joined in the war. they couldn't give a damn about what was happening to Europe, just themselves.
                                                                                    Same with communism. I hear Americans going "Oh, we saved all of Europe from the communists" all the time. No, they didn't. They were saving themselves. America believed that if communism spread through Europe, it'd hit the USA (Hence the "Domino Theory"). They didn't give a damn about the people in Europe.
                                                                                    The point of that rambling? Basically, just to show that, throughout history, the US only seemed to have cared about itself. They probably would have happily watched all of Europe become Nazi or Communist, so long as the USA wasn't threatened.


                                                                                    View PostMe111, on Sep 3 2006, 10:10 PM, said:

                                                                                    It's not a current phrase WD. As Bexie said it was from the Second World War. It doesn't have any bearing on modern day times. Don't take it too seriously.


                                                                                    Exactly.

                                                                                    View PostWind Dude, on Sep 5 2006, 02:57 AM, said:

                                                                                    Well, England in general doesn't exactly have a loving history, either.


                                                                                    Bah. So we killed a few Scots a few hundred years ago.
                                                                                    ... Okay, it was more than a few, it was a hell of a lot... and for centuries it was actually the law for an Englishman to kill a Welshman on sight after dark... and we had to remove a verse from our National Anthem because it taled about killing the Scots... but... but...
                                                                                    Oh, nevermind.

                                                                                    View PostFlamingDuck, on Sep 5 2006, 02:58 AM, said:

                                                                                    Happy slappy, anyone? I hear the reason that didn't come to America is because you never know who might be carrying a gun.


                                                                                    You can't judge England on the chavs.

                                                                                    #42   TheEnglishman 

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                                                                                      Posted 06 September 2006 - 09:28 AM

                                                                                      Shame the older generation over here assumes that because I'm a younger person I must be an evil drug taking chav who carries a knife around in his pocket. We're not all chavs folks!
                                                                                      Still I don't think the general crime situation is not as bad as in America (sorry Wind Dude -_- ) but it's on the rise and it's worrying.

                                                                                      #43   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                        Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:09 AM

                                                                                        I'm sorry, but chav -_-

                                                                                        WD-You can't argue with the stats. And even if you bring the population of America into account it still works out at a higher death by gun ratio to any first world country.

                                                                                        #44   Toasty 

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                                                                                          Posted 10 September 2006 - 08:09 PM

                                                                                          I agree that we do have problems with guns and drugs, but come on. Don't stereotype. Not all of us are drug addicts who carry guns around shoting people for the heck of it. Just like not all British people are "chavs".

                                                                                          And no SoT. The current government does not enjoy war, they enjoy peace. But sometimes there must be a war to have peace. Just think of the Civil War between Britan and America. Before we could be free and peacful, we had to fight a war. And to those of you who hate Bush, thin of it this way. Sometimes descisions made in a previous candidacy, take a while to have an effect. So some descisions made by Bill Clinton, like selling nukes to China, wouldn't show their ill effects until the next candidacy. And I'll say it again to those of you who say that Bush went to war for oil. If he did, wouldn't we be getting more oil, instead of less? And wouldn't we be getting lower gas prices instead of higher? The only reason we went to war, is to take out the terrorist organization that bomed us, so that nothing like that would ever happen again. Quit being conspiracy theorists.

                                                                                          #45   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                            Posted 10 September 2006 - 08:18 PM

                                                                                            Yeah. In reality, crude oil supply has very little effect on gas prices. What keeps them high is the lack of oil refineries stateside. (That plus several were shut down or outright destroyed by Katrina, and the Greenpeace Nazis won't let us build anymore.) And no boost to the economy could cover the cost of a war ($212 Billion and counting.)

                                                                                            Wow, I agree with Toasty...
                                                                                            *checks to see if sky is falling

                                                                                            #46   Toasty 

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                                                                                              Posted 10 September 2006 - 08:23 PM

                                                                                              I see. But, if we still had as many oil refineries as we did before, gas prices would still go up, because of the lack of crude oil to refine, am I right?

                                                                                              Wait...did you just agree with me?.....wow....I'd better go start preparing for Armageddon.....

                                                                                              #47   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                Posted 10 September 2006 - 08:41 PM

                                                                                                Yes, if crude oil supply falls gas prices will rise. However, that dosn't mean they will go down when the oil supply goes up. There is a limit to how cheap gas will get. That limit is reached when US refineries reach their maximum capacity. (At which all nearly all operational refineries are operating.) Crude oil supply could double and it would only knock gas prices down a quarter maximum. And that savings would come mainly from the ending of "Speculation" on the part of big oil companies. (Speculation is basically oil companies raising gas prices because they think oil prices will rise, or at least that's the theory that they use to cover up the fact that it allows them the financial freedom to gold-plate the gold bricks that their diamond-studded nine-acre mansion is made of.)
                                                                                                Restoring a stable oil supply won't get us back to the prices we knew before the energy crisis and all this Middle-East stuff happened. (Ahhh... remember two dollar gas? Good times...) Until the refineries Katrina wiped out are restored that rock-bottom price limit will remain higher than it was pre-Katrina.
                                                                                                Until then, do your part:
                                                                                                Send angry letters to your nearest environmental support group. ;)

                                                                                                #48   Toasty 

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                                                                                                  Posted 10 September 2006 - 09:42 PM

                                                                                                  Yes, I understand all that. And I think we should flood environmentalists e-mail boxes with spam until they allow more oil refineries. ;)

                                                                                                  #49   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                    Posted 11 September 2006 - 04:22 AM

                                                                                                    View PostMr.T, on Sep 11 2006, 12:09 PM, said:

                                                                                                    The only reason we went to war, is to take out the terrorist organization that bomed us, so that nothing like that would ever happen again. Quit being conspiracy theorists.

                                                                                                    I'll agree maybe Al-Queda(Sp?) are to blame, but what did Iraq do? Osama and Saddam were not allies, they would of rather sided with Bush then each other.

                                                                                                    #50   Eugine 

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                                                                                                      Posted 11 September 2006 - 04:52 AM

                                                                                                      Blah, let America continue to think they can win all their wars, go ahead, bomb China next! Then Brazil! Then Venezuela! N Korea! Anyone who treathens your "freedom", superiority or lacks your thinking... Think of a reason, make the American people believe them... Then bomb! Just to bring about "freedom", go ahead, waste your resources ;) I just love seeing their economy strain... China, Japan (though highly unlikely) or EU will become the next hyperpower and lets do anything to stop that. So yeah, not saying that would make myself a hypocrite to myself.

                                                                                                      P.S. I don't hate America... I just prefer other countries =)

                                                                                                      And like I said (I think), Bush went to war to leave a legacy! Now it's destroying him and the American government, the Iraq war was a total waste IMO... Now the US Government is spending alot on maintaining the peace and you know what? They'll practically get nothing out of it, and the Iraq government will probably backstab them in the future because religion and people over there is more important than the American freedom.

                                                                                                      #51   Toasty 

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                                                                                                        Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:04 PM

                                                                                                        No, no, no, no, no, and no.

                                                                                                        We attacked Saddam because he was becomeing a new "Hitler", and possibly had weapons of mass destruction.

                                                                                                        Bush DID NOT go to war to "lead a legacy". He went to war to keep another 911 from happening. Call me brainwashed or whatever you like, but I'm not. I have a mind of my own, and I actually live here and watch the actions of the government first hand. Just like every other American. You're not even in America, so how do you know what his motives are?

                                                                                                        #52   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                          Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:11 PM

                                                                                                          Although it does seem like Bush is trying to outdo how bad his father was, the war in Iraq was started by bad intelligence plain and simple.

                                                                                                          It really does look like that if you think about it:
                                                                                                          Bush Sr. had mild contesting of his election to office. Bush Jr. had a huge contesting of his election that took nearly a month and went all the way to the supreme court. Sr. had a war in Iraq, Jr. has a disasterous war in Iraq. Bush Sr.'s VP had a minor scandal involving misappropriation of campaign funds, Bush Jr.'s VP shot a guy in the face

                                                                                                          #53   Eugine 

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                                                                                                            Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:18 PM

                                                                                                            Toasty, I still believe Bush went to war to leave a legacy, or to atleast be seen as a better President than his father or atleast one of the best of USA...

                                                                                                            Yeah, the CIA is saying bad intelligence now, but I personally believe to call it "misleading" intelligence... And, me not being American has allowed me to see things from three, or atleast two opinions... You may say I can't see it on an American point of view but American news tell me enough, I can also see it on a terrorist level as well as a bystander... You now will choose to see it only one one level...

                                                                                                            #54   Toasty 

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                                                                                                              Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:11 PM

                                                                                                              No, I don't.

                                                                                                              One reason why the CIA doesn't give as good intelligence anymore is because the Liberals are trying to get rid of the laws that allow them to perform well. Like wire tapping. The reason why I don't believe Bush went to war to make a legacy, is because of his actions during the attacks on 9/11. I may not have been in New York when it happened, but I was in the US, and really, what else should he have done? Sit on his butt and say "Oh, they only bomed us, it's not that big of a deal"? His actions on 9/11, and towards the War on Terror, prove that it's not just for a legacy. I understand how the terrorists feel about us, they feel like we're the devil, and that it's their duty to see us thwarted. It would be a lie if I said I knew what it looked like to a bystandered though. But to me, he's giving the people who's families died, justice, and keeping further 9/11's from happening. Whether or not he's doing it for a legacy (which he's not), it's the only right thing to do. What would you do if terrorists did something like this to your country?

                                                                                                              #55   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:57 PM

                                                                                                                That was a beautiful speech, but Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no plans for such an attack. The reason Iraqis hate us now is because w bombed all their homes. We've always had a bad rep in the middle East, but Iraq knew enough not to even think about attacking us.

                                                                                                                #56   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                  Posted 11 September 2006 - 08:03 PM

                                                                                                                  But Saddam did, that's why we did.

                                                                                                                  #57   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                    Posted 11 September 2006 - 08:08 PM

                                                                                                                    I really hope that you're not saying what I think you're saying. But just in case, let me clarify something for you:

                                                                                                                    The 9/11 hijackers were from Afghanistan, sent by Osama Bin Laden. Saddam was a messed up dude, but he had N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with 9/11.

                                                                                                                    #58   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                      Posted 11 September 2006 - 08:14 PM

                                                                                                                      Yes, I know that. And that is why we are currently in Afghanistan fighting the terrorists. But Saddam posed a major threat to us too, and we had good reason to believe that he had weapons of mass destruction, and was willing to use them against us.

                                                                                                                      [EDIT] I have an unbaised article that I found in our IBD newspaper, that directly shows the links of Iraq and Al-Qiada. I'll post it tomorrow.

                                                                                                                      On a side note, my cousin, who works for the FBI, and who I also don't know very well, interrogated Saddam. I'd tell more, but he didn't say anything past that. It was confidential.

                                                                                                                      #59   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                        Posted 12 September 2006 - 04:40 AM

                                                                                                                        Toasty... OK then...

                                                                                                                        Now that it's cleared up Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 (The CIA even said that IIRC...) lets move on...

                                                                                                                        Why would Bush invade Iraq, which at the point in time did not treathen US security? Actually, like PS, Iraq wasn't even able to challenge the USA. He went there to finish what his father started, to topple Saddam for the sake of leaving a legacy...
                                                                                                                        AND, America didn't like Saddam's thinking because he wasn't for America, this fits in neatly with my speech above.
                                                                                                                        And, I'm not depating the Afganistan invasion, I could understand that... Al Queda was infact based there.

                                                                                                                        Anyway, I'm off to college.

                                                                                                                        #60   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                          Posted 12 September 2006 - 05:46 AM

                                                                                                                          View PostMr.T, on Sep 12 2006, 10:04 AM, said:

                                                                                                                          We attacked Saddam... and possibly had weapons of mass destruction.

                                                                                                                          Of which are yet to be found.

                                                                                                                          View PostMr.T, on Sep 12 2006, 11:11 AM, said:

                                                                                                                          Sit on his butt and say "Oh, they only bomed us, it's not that big of a deal"?

                                                                                                                          Yet he did just that, for what was it? 6 minutes or something. Watch the footage of him at that school in Texas or w/e

                                                                                                                          PS: They were Suaddi Arabian (sp?). I'll find the book tomorrow.

                                                                                                                          #61   Piers Watermaster 

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                                                                                                                            Posted 12 September 2006 - 06:23 AM

                                                                                                                            I agree with Mr T, way back on page 1.

                                                                                                                            America rocks. Our gov't dont.

                                                                                                                            #62   TheEnglishman 

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                                                                                                                              Posted 12 September 2006 - 09:05 AM

                                                                                                                              View Postwatch, on Sep 12 2006, 12:46 PM, said:

                                                                                                                              Yet he did just that, for what was it? 6 minutes or something. Watch the footage of him at that school in Texas or w/e

                                                                                                                              I guess there are two possible reasons for this. 1.) He's shocked (I know I was when I heard about this when I got home) or 2.) He didn't want to leave whilst he was in the middle of the school's presentation. It wouldn't exactly be fair on the kids.

                                                                                                                              #63   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                Posted 12 September 2006 - 05:53 PM

                                                                                                                                I like America

                                                                                                                                Like Canada more though

                                                                                                                                #64   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                  Posted 12 September 2006 - 06:15 PM

                                                                                                                                  No to mention it would be rude. And big whoop. It took him six minutes. That right there shows how much you hate Bush. You even went as far as to point out irrelivant things to criticise him with.

                                                                                                                                  The article that shows the links between Iraq and Al-Qaida is right here. It's true, and yes, Iraq WAS linked to Al-Qaida, whether you believe it or not.

                                                                                                                                  First half: http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/2558/li...e1customqr0.jpg

                                                                                                                                  Second Half: http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/7263/li...e2customko6.jpg

                                                                                                                                  They're both part of the same article, but a line was cut off by the scanner where I had to fold it.

                                                                                                                                  #65   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                    Posted 12 September 2006 - 07:51 PM

                                                                                                                                    Though a link isn't unthinkable, I still very much doubt it.

                                                                                                                                    Watch: (Saudi) And it dosn't really matter where they came from, the fact is that Osama sent them, so we have to go bust him up, not Saddam.

                                                                                                                                    #66   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                      Posted 12 September 2006 - 07:53 PM

                                                                                                                                      I need to see the date, you haven't realised the Senate of USA just said that Iraq had NO links to Al Queda...

                                                                                                                                      http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/09/...on=nation_world

                                                                                                                                      #67   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                        Posted 13 September 2006 - 08:51 PM

                                                                                                                                        It's from quite a while ago, but opinions change over time. And like my teachers say, it's usually your first instinct that's right. I stand by that article. And besides that, I've never even heard of that site before. I have no idea if it's reliable or not. Unless it was stated on the News, which I don't watch very often, then how do I know if it's not made up?

                                                                                                                                        #68   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                            Posted 14 September 2006 - 01:03 PM

                                                                                                                                          Perhaps a better known source could be more convincing.

                                                                                                                                          You have heard of the washington post right?

                                                                                                                                          #69   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                            Posted 14 September 2006 - 04:39 PM

                                                                                                                                            Yes, I have, and I also have a just as reliable, and much less biased source that says otherwise. An article from Investors Buisness Daily, which is a very expensive newspaper. The article is from a few days ago, and it counters both of those articles. I might post it today, or at least tomorrow.

                                                                                                                                            #70   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                              Posted 14 September 2006 - 05:10 PM

                                                                                                                                              So... you're telling me the article goes like this...

                                                                                                                                              "Al Queda-Hussein Link Is Enforced"

                                                                                                                                              Quote

                                                                                                                                              The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, agreeing with one of the Bush administration's main reason for the war in Iraq.


                                                                                                                                              Yeah, countering with that article means it counters the Sept. 11 commission...

                                                                                                                                              #71   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                No, it doesn't. There are different ways to counter that article. Regardless of where the info was gathered, the people making the articles could be biased, or fake. IBD is unbaised, and being a very expensive newspaper, among other things, greatly lessens it's probability of being fake.

                                                                                                                                                #72   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                  Posted 14 September 2006 - 07:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                  They price the paper higher to make money. It has nothing to do with its accuracy.

                                                                                                                                                  #73   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                    Posted 14 September 2006 - 07:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                    People will pay more for valid information, so yes, it does reflect it's reliability in a sense.

                                                                                                                                                    #74   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                      Posted 14 September 2006 - 08:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                      Anyway, this is going nowhere, lets move on...

                                                                                                                                                      So, do you think America will remain the worlds most wealty nation, or well, the country with the highest GDP? Statistics shows by 2020 China should surpass (everywhere except the CIA says so) in terms of GDP... Opinion/comments?

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                                                                                                                                                        Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                        I think that Americas time as the super nation is coming to an end. It's only becuase no one bothered to bomb them in WWII (Aside from Pearl Harbour) where as Europe got flattened, and all the civil wars in the Asia region, Mao etc.

                                                                                                                                                        Either China ( as Eugine said) or Japan, America is too focused on War then technology.


                                                                                                                                                        BTW Mr.T. If it were my leader who just heard his country had been attacked I wouldn't want him just sitting there, childern's feelings aside. Honestly who cares if a bunch of little 5 year olds have their feelings hurt, in comparsent to hearing from your leader, who leads in war and peace.

                                                                                                                                                        #76   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                          Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                          Agreed. The last stateside war was the civil war. Most of the rest of the world's contenders for richest country were torn up by war at some point since then. This reconstruction has kept them behind for the moment, but gave them a running start to take the crown while America has remined stagnant. (Bogged down fighting wars ironically enough...)

                                                                                                                                                          OMGZES!!!!! I've been Chaos lorded!!!!

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                                                                                                                                                            Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                            Wait a minute....you just now got chaos lorded? Wow. And here you've been active for two years longer than me...

                                                                                                                                                            And just to let you know, 5 minutes wouldn't have made much of a difference. It's just trying to point out more irrelivent flaws. And on top of that, as far as I know, it's the country that has the largest military that's top dog, and so far, that appears to be the US. I don't expect that to change any time soon. Regardless of the war on terror.

                                                                                                                                                            #78   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                Posted 15 September 2006 - 08:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                              View PostMr.T, on Sep 15 2006, 09:54 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                              Wait a minute....you just now got chaos lorded? Wow. And here you've been active for two years longer than me...


                                                                                                                                                              That probably has something to do with my addiction to the spamboard. Back when it existed, 130% of my posts were there. (Not kidding, spam posts were higher than my post count.) Now that it no longer exists I'm getting a lot more meaningful ones. Speaking of which:

                                                                                                                                                              True, but just because we're on top now is no guarantee that we'll stay that way. I think it's because our wealth has enabled us to get increasingly lazy over the years...

                                                                                                                                                              #79   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                Agreed. :D

                                                                                                                                                                Just one thing I hated about America was back when the Boxing Day Tsnaumi (sp?) happened. I think the Canadian (sp?) government matched every dollar their citizens gave. Australia gave millions straigh off, where America gave a hand full of pennies. I think Finland's first donation was higher then Americas first two or something.

                                                                                                                                                                #80   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  Boxing Day Tsunami? Is that the one that hit India?

                                                                                                                                                                  #81   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 15 September 2006 - 10:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    Well, do you have exact numbers on hand? Or are you speculating? Our first was either 500,000, or 2 million. Can't remember. Probably was more than that though.

                                                                                                                                                                    And yes, there are definately a lot of fat lazy people in the US, but there's more hardworking people than lazy ones. As for the government, one thing that could lead to our demise, is the stupid liberals trying to give terrorists rights in America. That's just so ****ing stupid! They're trying to blow us up! Why give them any rights?

                                                                                                                                                                    #82   Elliott 

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                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      As far as I'm concerned, anyone who speaks out against their own country should just piss off to somewhere else in the world. If you're not happy with the state of your country, its government, laws etc. then just leave. No one is forcing you to stay there. So either love it, or leave it. Now I'm not saying that everyone should love their country, but unless you personally can do a better job of running it, keep your mouth shut. I hate those Bush bashing protesters who have all the insults in the world for their president but clue how to do a better job than him.

                                                                                                                                                                      #83   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        ^ Couldn't have said it any better. I'm not agains't my country, but there's deffinately a few things I dissagree with. But I'd go to the front lines to protect my country.
                                                                                                                                                                        But seriously. Why give terrorists rights?

                                                                                                                                                                        #84   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          It costs money to leave a country and start a new life from scratch somewhere else. Money most of us don't have. That's why Bush-bashing liberals stay here and complain. (That, plus the fact that the Constiution guarantees out right to complain about the government.)

                                                                                                                                                                          #85   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 16 September 2006 - 08:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            Actually if you leave the US to go to Canada, you would have MORE money. Due to the US conversion rate. Long as you leave with some money you will be ok.

                                                                                                                                                                            #86   Someone Else 

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                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 16 September 2006 - 09:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              It still ain't easy setting up life in a new country. It has all the fun of being the new kid in school, except that the swirlys still continue, even when work is over.

                                                                                                                                                                              I think Bush may be the biggest dumbass to lead our country in a long while, but despite that I still have a certain degree of respect for him... I mean, he could be a LOT worse, and he CAN run our country well enough to a certain degree. Even if he doesn't always get good results. (I don't know where Bush supporters get the idea of him doing so well)

                                                                                                                                                                              #87   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 16 September 2006 - 03:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                It's because he doesn't sell nuke plans to our enemies like Clinton did. And, regardless of what people say, he made a good descision to go to war with the terrorist. If he hadn't, we would have had another 9/11. No, he hasn't pilfered ANY oil, and yes, Iraq WAS linked to the terrorists. There were conversations in private between the two. That's enough proof for me.

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                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  Too bad it's not enough for the other 5,999,999,999 people in the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                  #89   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 16 September 2006 - 08:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    There's a lot more people besides me that think that there is a connection. There may not be now, but there was. And that's why Bush sent troops into Iraq.

                                                                                                                                                                                    #90   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      And thats why he didn't find anything but Oil and eventually Saddam. (Has he even been tried yet?)

                                                                                                                                                                                      Oh and pray tell, where is Osama Bin Laden? You guys have had over 5 years since he used his CIA training to launch his second terriost attack on the World Trade Center. (If it was even him the second time)

                                                                                                                                                                                      #91   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 18 September 2006 - 06:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        View Postwatch, on Sep 18 2006, 12:46 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                        And thats why he didn't find anything but Oil and eventually Saddam. (Has he even been tried yet?)

                                                                                                                                                                                        Oh and pray tell, where is Osama Bin Laden? You guys have had over 5 years since he used his CIA training to launch his second terriost attack on the World Trade Center. (If it was even him the second time)

                                                                                                                                                                                        out of the 6 billion people on earth, were looking for 1. I think those are pretty high odds.

                                                                                                                                                                                        #92   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 18 September 2006 - 08:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          On top of that, half of the government is giving the CIA a hard time, which is also slowing down the search. One thing that they're doing, is trying to stop wire tapping. It's not like the CIA is tapping eveyone's phones, just people who they suspect might be terrorists.

                                                                                                                                                                                          And Watch, if you're implying AGAIN that Bush "pilfered" oil, then give me proof. I'd like to see a rock solid article that has even any proof of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                          #93   Piers Watermaster 

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                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 19 September 2006 - 07:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            We don't need to "pilfer" oil, we just found a bunch more in the gulf, remember?

                                                                                                                                                                                            #94   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 19 September 2006 - 12:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              There is a lot of oil in the Gulf, but many of our rigs there were disabled or destroyed by hurricane Katrina.

                                                                                                                                                                                              #95   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 19 September 2006 - 05:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Yeah, but we're rebuilding, which is good. Once we've rebuilt most of the rigs, gas prices should go down, at least for a decade or two. Probably more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                #96   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 19 September 2006 - 05:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  lol... you're not taking into consideration the posibility of another hurricane now are you?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  #97   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    No, but I never said that it wouldn't happen, now did I?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    #98   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 20 September 2006 - 04:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      No, but your post just seem a bit too confident...

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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostpHantOm, on Sep 18 2006, 10:17 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        out of the 6 billion people on earth, were looking for 1. I think those are pretty high odds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        The guy lives in a cave in a third world country. You've had since, when did he plant that car bomb under the world trade center? 1993 or 1995 come to mind, not 100%. And he's been like in the top ten on the worlds most wanted for how long?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        But yes I agree how hard it is to locate a fleeing person in a world this big. Maybe on Mercury...:)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        #100   Piers Watermaster 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          There was no car bomb under the Trade Center, it was planes, and it was in 2001. Keep up, man.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 20 September 2006 - 08:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostPiers Watermaster, on Sep 20 2006, 08:22 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                            There was no car bomb under the Trade Center, it was planes, and it was in 2001. Keep up, man.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            No hes right

                                                                                                                                                                                                            They tried blowing up the world trade center one time before 9/11, only to have failed because the towers were built to withstand a bomb from its base. The only reason the towers collapsed was due to the heat of the planes fuel melting the support beams of half the building.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            And Bin Laden was within our grasps in the 90's, but Clinton let him go. You can thank Democrats once again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            #102   TheEnglishman 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostpHantOm, on Sep 20 2006, 03:35 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              They tried blowing up the world trade center one time before 9/11, only to have failed because the towers were built to withstand a bomb from its base. The only reason the towers collapsed was due to the heat of the planes fuel melting the support beams of half the building.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I doubt people would have thought of the possiblity of a plane crashing into the towers before 9/11 though. I know I hadn't thought of the possibility and by the security measures that used to be taken in airports, neither did anyone else. It was totally unexpected.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Oddly I'd only heard about the 1993 incident recently. I guess it didn't cause as much shock as it wasn't such a big impact, but you wouldn't expect it not to be widely known.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              #103   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 20 September 2006 - 01:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostMe111, on Sep 20 2006, 11:36 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I doubt people would have thought of the possiblity of a plane crashing into the towers before 9/11 though. I know I hadn't thought of the possibility and by the security measures that used to be taken in airports, neither did anyone else. It was totally unexpected.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                Actually, the towers were built with (abiet accidental) aircraft impacts in mind. That's why they both stood for several minutes after the panes hit. The trouble is, in the 25(ish) years that they stood, planes got bigger and the towers didn't get any stronger. Plus the attackers knew what they were doing, they chose long range filghts that were loaded with tons of fuel and hijacked them quickly enough that they didn't get they chance to burn much of it. The greater explosion of a plane that didn't exist when the towers were constructed shattered the fireproofing foam of the towers' steel trusses. That's why they fell.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                #104   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 20 September 2006 - 11:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've heard about all that too. The high volume of jet fule practically incinerated the beams. And about what phantom said, I agree completely. That's one point why Clinton wasn't as great a president as some make him out to be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #105   Ravenblade 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 30 September 2006 - 03:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I dislike the US and have never been especially fond of the arrogance with which their government dictates its policies. I cant say i hate all American people, that would be stupid. I dislike the arrogant ones =/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This does seem to make up a large number though...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #106   gsninja 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 30 September 2006 - 05:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostRavenblade, on Sep 30 2006, 04:06 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I dislike the US and have never been especially fond of the arrogance with which their government dictates its policies. I cant say i hate all American people, that would be stupid. I dislike the arrogant ones =/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This does seem to make up a large number though...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nah, the arrogant ones actually make up a smaller number than the non-arrogant ones.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm Italian, but I've been living in the US for most of my life. What do I think? It's an excellent country, way more than a hell of a lot better than the backwater, pain-in-the-ass countries in the Middle East. And I also think it's better than Italy, but I don't feel like explaining why. There are only two things I dislike in the US:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. Most of the government.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Gangs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #107   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 01 October 2006 - 01:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Gangs are definately a problem, but a lot of modern countries have them. I agrre completely though, that's one thing I dislike about the U.S.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The government however, it depends on who the president is. I'd rather have a conservative president, because regardless of popular views, they were the better ones. But even if they're liberal, if they govern well (which doesn't seem very often), I don't mind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #108   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 26 October 2006 - 06:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostMr.T, on Oct 1 2006, 06:04 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'd rather have a conservative president, because regardless of popular views, they were the better ones. But even if they're liberal, if they govern well (which doesn't seem very often), I don't mind.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I say amen to that.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyway a lot of time people hate America because they are jelous and some of it is false accusation. I heard some UK people say everyone in America is rich which is far from the truth. I like America because we enjoy our right and freedoms. Not alot of counties have them as we do, for many reason.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well as a final call.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          For the USA!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #109   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yea becuase Nike or anyone don't outsource jobs to India or China to save money and provide jobs for their consumers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #110   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 29 October 2006 - 03:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, and nobody outside of the US does that either. ;)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Quit being a hipocrite.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #111   TheEnglishman 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 29 October 2006 - 03:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's a good point. The shirt I'm wearing says 'Made in Mauritius.' It's not just a US thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (Wow I backed America in something!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #112   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 29 October 2006 - 04:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yeah, there's always a country that worse off than you are that you can export your manufactuing to. (Unless you live in Canada...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #113   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 30 October 2006 - 09:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostPlatinum Sun, on Oct 29 2006, 07:34 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (Unless you live in Canada...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Whats that supposed to mean? :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #114   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 03 November 2006 - 10:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've read that four times and I'm not even sure if its insulting us. Maybe I'm just stupid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't hate America. I hate conservative America. It was a much better country with Clinton as the president, and that is shown by Bush's 30% approval rating. (I'm sure someone will say 38% now)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When 2008 rolls around, if I have American citizenship (which I plan to get when I know that the possibilities of a draft are past), I'll be behind Barack Obama for president. He is a smart, well spoken man that has the right ideas on how to run the country. Hillary Clinton is a joke, and if Obama runs, there's no way she can get her points across better than he can.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #115   Ravenblade 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 03 November 2006 - 10:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This was reported in todays papers which i found interesting - Its a poll that shows British people view the President as more of a threat to world peace than Kim Jong Il (although still less than Bin Laden) Tony Blair did pretty badly too if you go on to read the whole article. It mentions hosts of other countries who feel the same way although none quite as adamant as Britain it seems. Even Israel was included though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Its a shame but it does seem like American Foriegn Policy (or rather Bush foreign policy) has demonised your country, even in the eyes of "your closest allies" ie Britain =/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Poll On Most Dangerous Threats to world security

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #116   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 03 November 2006 - 10:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Although I know that Bush is not the only one who makes decisions for America, I also know that Bush's government's policy of fear and war has affected their view in foreign countries, including Canada.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #117   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 03 November 2006 - 10:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well I agree with the with the poll to an extent, he is a world threat lol. Kims a greater threat, just his country isnt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Picture this

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kim jon as President of the US.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Dear God ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #118   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 03 November 2006 - 10:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't see Kim Jong as a threat. He may be crazy, but I think he can use Hiroshima and Nagasaki as examples of what happens when you attack America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But hey, if America does get nuked, maybe Bush will attack China claiming that 'they are the ones behind this attack'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #119   Ravenblade 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 03 November 2006 - 10:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostpHantOm, on Nov 3 2006, 07:08 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Well I agree with the with the poll to an extent, he is a world threat lol. Kims a greater threat, just his country isnt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Picture this

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kim jon as President of the US.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dear God ;)



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You know, thats a really good point - i would much rather Bush in charge of the US than Kim Jong or Bin Laden =/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #120   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 03 November 2006 - 11:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I agree with that. Bush is a threat because of how much power he holds with being at the helm of the world's superpower. If he was the leader of Canada, I'm sure there wouldn't be as much fear.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #121   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 03 November 2006 - 02:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostSea_of_Time, on Nov 3 2006, 02:09 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't see Kim Jong as a threat. He may be crazy, but I think he can use Hiroshima and Nagasaki as examples of what happens when you attack America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But hey, if America does get nuked, maybe Bush will attack China claiming that 'they are the ones behind this attack'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If we nuke China, we better wipe it off the face of the Earth or were screwed. We would get one shot at taking them out completely.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #122   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 04 November 2006 - 02:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's not likely that we'll even attack China. Not unlless they attack first, or we get sattelite photos of them building an army and get intel that poses China as a threat. Right now, that isn't very likely. Nor will it be in ten, or even twenty years. But it will probably happen eventually.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #123   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 04 November 2006 - 04:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Technically, when I said American would attack China I was joking. There's no way they would nuke them, you'd have to be pretty stupid to wake a sleeping giant like China.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #124   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 04 November 2006 - 10:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostSea_of_Time, on Nov 4 2006, 07:49 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you'd have to be pretty stupid to wake a sleeping giant like China.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well Bush likes doing dumb things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #125   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 05 November 2006 - 01:43 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I beg to differ. But as for the China thing, eventually someone will attack the other. That's all I'm saying.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #126   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 07 November 2006 - 01:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's why you should move to austalia. That's like in the middel of no where. You'd be pretty safe there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #127   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 07 November 2006 - 02:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Isn't Australia a member of NATO though? You guys can be in the middle of nowhere and still have a purpose, you know.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 07 November 2006 - 05:14 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I Like U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But I hate the people who delared war!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #129   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 07 November 2006 - 05:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sometimes a war must be fought to have peace. The war we are fighting right now will lead to peace for Iraqi's.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 08 November 2006 - 10:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are loads of countries where peace is needed if you can call it peace. America shouldn't have gone to Iraq in the first place. They didn't have any good moral reason for being there, let alone political. Iraq was a mistake but the American goverment is too stubborn to admit it. They don't have a bloody reason to create peace for the Iraqi's.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      As for fighting for peace, that like having sex to get virginity. You can't do one and be something else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #131   Sea of Time 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 08 November 2006 - 11:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nice analogy, and it's perfectly true. Maybe if, just once, the Americans listened to the UN, the UN might have been able to give democracy to Iraq without war.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If "might" means about a 0.1% chance, then yes. Long story short, the UN can't do anything. There are too many conflicting voices in it to get anything accomplished. It's kind of like our federalist system, only even less productive.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Two countries spoke veto over the war in the first place. The UN was established to prevent world wars and make good connections between countries. By undermining the whole UN system, there's no point in it. But if America making decisions solo like that, they're going to lose a lot of support and make enemies (as if they didn't have enough to start with.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And the irony is, that America thought up the whole UN idea to prevent a WO I from reocurring, calling it the league of nations. The whole idea collapsed because (what a suprise...) America didn't want to join it after the war. And this being one of the indirect reasons for WO II.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #134   TheEnglishman 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've always found that bizarre, how they set up the League of Nations but never joined. It's like making a set of rules for everyone and then ignoring them.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 08 November 2006 - 05:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The league of nations didn't fail because America didn't join it. It failed because it had no power of military enforecement. So the best that the league could do was:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Germany, stop invading Poland!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Unsuprisingly, this was unsucessful in preventing the Second World War.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #136   Mysterious Adept 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 08 November 2006 - 09:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  People say Bush did this bad he doesn't know how to do this or that, well some of that might be true, but ya gotta remember, he's only human, and if u haven't noticed by now, no one is perfect, Bush is running The US as best as he can and as best as he knows how.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Oh and yes The president after WW1 did think up the league of nations, but ya also gotta realize is that america is a democracy that means in enough people don't want something to happen, it won't happen. So the reason why the US didn't join right away is because Americans at the time didn't want to get involved in foreign affairs. So they voted against it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and the whole iraq issue just makes me even madder! I hate war just as much as the next guy, but think of the scenario reversed. what would of happened if Saddam would of stayed in power? could of more people died? could he himself start another war with the support of muslim extremists?( Not meaning to affend anyone) No one can predict what would of happened. Could the UN solved this peacefully? Yes. could they have failed? Yes. It's just based on what seems right at the moment. Unless anyone can tell the future.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  BOTTOM LINE: The reason why America isn't perfect is because we make mistakes like everyone else, our actions were based on what we thought was right. And sometimes it's not right. I just don't think people should start Critizing the US just because of that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Man topics like these get me wondering many things :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #137   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 09 November 2006 - 12:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But the question then is, why Iraq? If your going for the Saddam in power reason. There are loads of dictators doing the same thing in Africa or Asia.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And America's democracy system is one of the vaguest I know. The president there has far too much power for a good democracy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #138   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      First off, we attacked him because we had good reason too. Read my last paragraph in this post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Secondly, no, the president doesn't have any more power than the Senate or House of Representitives. They all have the power to veto eachother (that means that the law/action being discussed won't end up in a ballot), and none of them can get away with breaking the law either. That's where the federal court comes in. If anyone in the house or sentate, or the president, breaks a law, they are punished for it and someone else replaces them. In the presidents case, that would be the vice president. The only thing that the president can do that no one else can, is use his presidential power to over rule the house and senate, allowing him to decide without their consent. He can only do this once per term though, and the federal court still applies, so he regardless, he can't use it to get out of prison.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It is very well balanced, especially since the people in the Senate and House are elected by the people, so they speak for the people when it comes do makeing descisions. And there are always Democrats and Republicans in the two. The only problem is, is that when the Democrats take control of the Senate or house, Republicans don't have a say in anything because of the way they run it. When Republicans are in power however, they respect the founding fathers intentions, and allow the power to flow evenly. This has been shown many times over the years. Rejecting it is rejecting reality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostSaturos Striker, on Nov 8 2006, 02:43 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Two countries spoke veto over the war in the first place. The UN was established to prevent world wars and make good connections between countries. By undermining the whole UN system, there's no point in it. But if America making decisions solo like that, they're going to lose a lot of support and make enemies (as if they didn't have enough to start with.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And the irony is, that America thought up the whole UN idea to prevent a WO I from reocurring, calling it the league of nations. The whole idea collapsed because (what a suprise...) America didn't want to join it after the war. And this being one of the indirect reasons for WO II.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So you're saying that WWII is America's fault? FYI, Japan attacked us, and we attacked back in defense. They took out almost all of our battleships, but fortunately, we still had our aircraft carriers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And SS, both you and SoT are wrong in saying that it's impossible to get peace by going to war. The proof is sitting right in front of you. We fought in WWI, and WWII, and guess what? They were wars, and they ended in peace because the axis's were defeated. Right there is a perfect example of why sometimes you must fight to gain peace. There isn't any way either war could have been settled with politics, and there isn't any way the Iraq war can be either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The reason we went to Iraq: We went to Iraq because we had strong, convicting proof that Saddam was conspiring with Iraq (even harder evidence than the evidence that there were going to be attacks on US soil by planes, i.e. 9/11). Because of this evidence, and because we were (and still are, no thanks to Democrats) looking for Osama, this was our best lead. We also had very good reason to believe he had wepons of mass destruction (you would be convinced too if someone only let you look in one place for them each time, regardless of whether or not it was a different location each time). And so, when we invaded, he fought back at us. The remainders of his army are what is attacking us still in Iraq.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's what happened, so deal with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #139   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 09 November 2006 - 05:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The reason we went to Iraq: We went to Iraq because we had strong, convicting proof that Saddam was conspiring with Iraq (even harder evidence than the evidence that there were going to be attacks on US soil by planes, i.e. 9/11). Because of this evidence, and because we were (and still are, no thanks to Democrats) looking for Osama, this was our best lead. We also had very good reason to believe he had wepons of mass destruction (you would be convinced too if someone only let you look in one place for them each time, regardless of whether or not it was a different location each time). And so, when we invaded, he fought back at us. The remainders of his army are what is attacking us still in Iraq.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That's not true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Currently, no one knows the true reason why America went to Iraq anymore. Their reasons have changed with time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The US firstly attacked Iraq because it had "Weapons of mass destruction". When nothing was found they attacked Iraq "because Saddam worked with terrorists", thus "Saddam threated the US national security". The US government eventually found no link between Iraq and terrorists, so now they claim the war was to "establish a secure and safe democratic government" according to Mr. T
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hm...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        How can those reasons be so convicting Toasty, when later down they found no proof at all. None
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That simply shows it was cooked up intelligence. All of those causes are lost now, and deemed untrue by the US and international community, if there was convicting evidence, atleast something would have been made out of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #140   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 09 November 2006 - 06:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          We attacked Iraq because were power hungry dictators of the world. There close the topic now for gods sake.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #141   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 10 November 2006 - 01:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sadly that would make the most sense.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The only flawed thing about going to overthrow Saddam put a blind eye to his wealth and oil is the fact, it was already mentioned, there are so many other countries just as corrupt and messed up. If you had of chosen North Korea a year ago or whatever then I'm sure they would not have the world all worried about weapons and bombs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #142   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 10 November 2006 - 04:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostEugine, on Nov 9 2006, 05:55 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's not true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Currently, no one knows the true reason why America went to Iraq anymore. Their reasons have changed with time.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How can those reasons be so convicting Toasty, when later down they found no proof at all. None
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That simply shows it was cooked up intelligence. All of those causes are lost now, and deemed untrue by the US and international community, if there was convicting evidence, atleast something would have been made out of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Funny how you edited out most of what I said. For all we know, and anyone else for that matter, he could have shipped them off somewhere and left someone else in charge of attacking us with them. But I highly doubt that's true. It's much more likely that he was just provokeing us into attacking him, which we did, and now he's out of power and his people are free of his rain of terror.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And Watch, you are now, yet again, assuming that we went to Iraq for oil. Sorry, but that's not true. We had been seraching for weapons there that he was possibly hiding, and since we went to the middle east to stop the terrorists, we were put right near him, so we attacked him because of the strong possibility of him haveing weapons of mass destruction, and because of the strong possibility of him conspiring with the terrorists. This meant that he might use those weapons against us, so we attacked him to keep further soldiers from being killed. Besides that, since we attacked him, his people have been freed of him. So though we didn't find any weapons, we freed many people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And besides that, we havn't pillaged a single gallon of oil from Iraq. Otherwise our gas prices wouldn't be so high, they'd be lower than ever since we would've gotten the oil for free. That right there disproves your theory.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #143   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 10 November 2006 - 07:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostMr.T, on Nov 10 2006, 11:21 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And Watch, you are now, yet again, assuming that we went to Iraq for oil. Sorry, but that's not true. We had been seraching for weapons there that he was possibly hiding, and since we went to the middle east to stop the terrorists, we were put right near him, so we attacked him because of the strong possibility of him haveing weapons of mass destruction, and because of the strong possibility of him conspiring with the terrorists. This meant that he might use those weapons against us, so we attacked him to keep further soldiers from being killed. Besides that, since we attacked him, his people have been freed of him. So though we didn't find any weapons, we freed many people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And the fact you have found no terriosts and no WMD says what? Don't start with the whole look in one place at a time thing becuase that is not true. He had weapons, that is true, but the weapons talked about by the media? Never existed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes he has been removed but at the current cost of 150,000+ lives on the civilian front alone. Not to mention foreign soliders and hostage's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #144   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 10 November 2006 - 07:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We may not have found WMD, or terrorists, that is true, but what people try to say that isn't true, is that we pillage oil. It's just another conspiracy theory to make America look bad instead of giving the real reason for why we're in Iraq.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And how many do you think would have been lost if he stayed in power? Many, many more. At least over a longer course of time, but the end result would be worse than what we have now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #145   Ravenblade 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 10 November 2006 - 07:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree that the Iraq war, on researching it as fully as i could with regards to the history of the region, probably wasnt all that much to do with oil.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think it was this:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The Bush administration, after being hit on 9/11 and attacking the Taliban who funded Al Qaeda felt the need to have some centre of control in the gulf region from which they could continue to monitor and contain the terrorist threat. Iraq was an easy target as Saddam is your average evil disctator. I think this was a political move to make America seem less of an evil to people in the middle east in the long run, as they could use the new Iraqi government to improve their image.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Im curious though Mr T, Bush said they were going in for WMDs - so either he lied or the intelligence was wrong - either way, doesnt it mean the war was unjustified as Iraq wasnt doing what they accused it of? I very much doubt the intelligence would have been wrong, so i think they lied, and i suspect for the reason ive mentioned above.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mind you, that reason isnt as bad as come conspiracy theories - its still not the US' right to do that though. It hasnt paid off in the end either as, finally, as a result of the elections, we're seeing that the Bush Administration didnt get away with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #146   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 10 November 2006 - 07:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      No, we aren't there to keep tabs. We have satelites and reconnisance drones for that. It would be pointless to risk American soldiers' lives for that reason. Intelligence isn't always right. You could have really convicting evidence that someone did something bad, and the jury in a court could send them to jail, but that doesn't mean they were guilty. The evidence could have been wrong. We had very strong intelligence suggesting that Saddam had WMD, and besides that, he was a dictator. We couldn't just sit there, right next to people being tortured, and not do something about it. We already even had a reason for it anyway, WMD, but they weren't found. We've still saved those people from Saddam. That can't be mistaken.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #147   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 10 November 2006 - 09:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostMr.T, on Nov 10 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and besides that, he was a dictator. We couldn't just sit there, right next to people being tortured, and not do something about it. We already even had a reason for it anyway, WMD, but they weren't found. We've still saved those people from Saddam. That can't be mistaken.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So if that is true we can expect wars in the following countries to get the following people:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Paul Kagame Rwanda 1994–Present Vice-President of Rwanda 1994-2000; President 2000-Present. Brouhgt to power by a guerilla movement which plunged the country into bloodshed and led to the Rwandan Genocide in 1994. Responsible of the the killings of innocent civilians, women and children in Kibeho refugee camp (see [9], [10]). Responsible of the killings of 4 millions congolese (see [11]). Responsible of the killings of Priests and Archbishops in Kab***i

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Robert Mugabe Zimbabwe 1980–present
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Gained power through election, and repeatedly re-elected, but criticized for steps used to maintain power. From 1999 on, used police and militant groups like the War Veterans Association and Border Gezi Youth to enforce ZANU-PF policies and to prevent opponents from voting; called "king" by his aides.[17] Arrested and tortured opponents and human rights activists; gave amnesty to murderers of his political opponents in 2000; ignores court rulings.[18] Criticized as dictator by Desmond Tutu[19] and Vladimir Putin[20].

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ayatollah Ali Khamenei Iran 1989-present Continues Khomeini's Islamist path & uses religion as a tool, cracks down on all authentic dissent, tortures, and has given orders that permit killings like that of Akbar Mohammadi and Zahra Kazemi. Only permitts government-organized demonstrations. Allows a multi-party government but disallows the candidacy of true moderates.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Than Shwe Myanmar (Burma) 1992–present Unelected; persecution of minorities leading 250,000 to flee; no free press


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If this was the real reason, I don't think you should join the US army for a while. They've got a full program.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #148   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 10 November 2006 - 09:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I if it was yes we would. Although some of them will die eventually like Castro in cuba.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #149   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 10 November 2006 - 10:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostHotshot101, on Nov 10 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I if it was yes we would.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            These are all real, living, in-power dictators. So it is so, see for yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://en.wikipedia....st_of_dictators

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #150   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 10 November 2006 - 10:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wrong wording. No idea if we would exactly do that or not, because we went in there yes to liberate Iraq but also for the wmds, which saddam had plenty of warning to ship them off somewhere, so we couldn't find them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #151   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 10 November 2006 - 12:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostHotshot101, on Nov 10 2006, 07:55 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                wrong wording. No idea if we would exactly do that or not, because we went in there yes to liberate Iraq but also for the wmds, which saddam had plenty of warning to ship them off somewhere, so we couldn't find them.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If the guy had them in the first place. And as the law says, everybody is innocent unless proven otherwise. As is hasn't been proven that he had WMD, he's innocent on that matter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And please don't say that America had some good proof he had them. If they did have proof, they'd publish it, or at least show it to France or Germany. But the point is, no one knows if they did have real evidence for sure. (That was 100% reliable.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #152   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 10 November 2006 - 06:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well did hear a year ago we found like 1 or 2 or his weapons. So the little scoundrel shipped them some where

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #153   Ravenblade 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 10 November 2006 - 06:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The US government cannot hide behind the need to save the Iraqi people - In Rwanda in 1994 (or something like that) there was ethnic cleansing going on and one of the worst genocides the world had ever seen - the US went in and helped until the army helicopter Black Hawk got shot down and some servicemen were killed. Then the US left and the people in Rwanda got slaughtered. Slaughtered in even worse ways than anything Saddam did - i would detail them but i think its too violent for some of you. Watch the film Black Hawk Down if you want to see that. Or Hotel Rwanda.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Anyways, the UN weapons inspectors went into Iraq and were shown around and found that he had none. This was confirmed. And better than any intelligence the US military could have had as they werent allowed access. The British weapons inspector released a report saying that there were no weapons and then committed suicide which is another way of saying Mi5 had him shot. Im not saying Britain wasnt equally to blame in this cover up but face the facts here, they lied about WMDs - there had to be something bigger at stake.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #154   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 10 November 2006 - 09:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I will say the wars is not everything we thought it would be. Now its just a fight against the terrorists and helping Iraq till it can defend itself. All i can say is you can expect more terrorist attacks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #155   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 11 November 2006 - 02:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Honestly I dont give a flying f*ck about Iraq. I hate watching my paychecks disappear from taxes before I even get to put it in my account.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #156   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:37 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You will see more of that from the democrats in this period of 2 years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #157   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 11 November 2006 - 07:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yeah. SoT explained why already.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #158   pHantOm 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostEugine, on Nov 11 2006, 10:37 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah. SoT explained why already.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Its not your country so you have no say in if its a good or bad thing. You're not the one forking over the cash, so ofcourse its easy for you to say taxes are good for the US. :lol:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #159   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I never said taxes were good, look for what SoT said...

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Some Dutch teacher wrote a book on how scary the America mentality is right now. He taught there at a university for about 6-7 years and found it alarming how Americans think they're the boss of the world, always want there way and if they don't get it, go ahead with it whatever ohter countries say.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  He was also.. disturbed about how patriotic Americans are. Starting each schoolday by singing to the American flag, even when they're five year olds. He also mentioned that in some school books there was propoganda for the government.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Although he brings certain things... very radical. He is right on a lot of things.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 16 December 2006 - 02:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I hate when people bring up stereotypes about Americans, it really irritates me. seriously.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Whoever that Dutch guy is, hes a deucebag. Yes, we do the pledge of alligience at schools, but your not forced to do them (Depends on your teachers though ;)). Not all Americans believe in bossing the world around. Our GOVERNMENT does, and I have NEVER had a school book that in any way, shape, or form had propoganda for the government....except when describing communists. :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #162   Someone Else 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 17 December 2006 - 06:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patriotism is a bit forced, but we don't HAVE to do it anymore, if ever. I do stand for the flag, but I don't recite the pledge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Also, we cover American History in our class, but we don't cover other country's much.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #163   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 17 December 2006 - 06:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostSaturos Striker, on Dec 16 2006, 04:54 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Some Dutch teacher wrote a book on how scary the America mentality is right now. He taught there at a university for about 6-7 years and found it alarming how Americans think they're the boss of the world, always want there way and if they don't get it, go ahead with it whatever ohter countries say.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        He was also.. disturbed about how patriotic Americans are. Starting each schoolday by singing to the American flag, even when they're five year olds. He also mentioned that in some school books there was propoganda for the government.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Although he brings certain things... very radical. He is right on a lot of things.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        SS if you judge people by what others tell you, you won't get the entire picture. You can't just read this book and say every American is that way. For all you know the person could be lieing, just to give us a bad reputation. So for all you know that guy may have not even been in the American borders.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #164   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostWind Dude, on Dec 18 2006, 11:38 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patriotism is a bit forced, but we don't HAVE to do it anymore, if ever. I do stand for the flag, but I don't recite the pledge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Also, we cover American History in our class, but we don't cover other country's much.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In my 11 years of school I have only ever done Australian history once, for half a year as a minor subject.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've covered Greece, Egyptians, Aztecs, China, Amercia, Middle Ages, 'Cave Men'. Only time I've done my own country's history was in Primary school.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #165   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I learned about a few other countries when I was younger, but in High School you mainly have American History classes only. Unless a school offers electives that teach about other countries. That pretty much sums it up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #166   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 17 December 2006 - 09:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well with Australian history I don't see much about it that significant except the founding of the country. We have a pretty big history and it sems to get more in depth each time I study it. I mean I have study other countries. About 2 semesters ago I was studing Greece and Rome. Yes we don't study much about other countries, but what does that got to do with anything?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #167   Someone Else 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 17 December 2006 - 10:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Alot, actually. Our image could be much better if we stop turning a blind eye to the rest of the world and learn a bit about other cultures. We mean well as a country, but need to stop being so self-absorbed in our culture. We're supposed to be a country of many different kinds of people, ya know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Being ignorant is a part of a bad image.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #168   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 18 December 2006 - 12:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View PostHotshot101, on Dec 18 2006, 01:43 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  SS if you judge people by what others tell you, you won't get the entire picture. You can't just read this book and say every American is that way. For all you know the person could be lieing, just to give us a bad reputation. So for all you know that guy may have not even been in the American borders.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  He's a pretty reknown teacher throughout holland. And he's been in America allright. The book was written pretty subjective though. So it's hard to tell if those are solid facts he's presenting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But still, in Europe America seems like a big cry baby. Allways wanting their way. The easiest example, Iraq. They go to the UN, UN says no. Germany and France call a veto. And still.. they go and invade Iraq.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But is it true then that in the southern states they start a school day by singing to the flag?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #169   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 18 December 2006 - 01:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Schools are state regulated, so yes, some schoold require students to sing (or at least stand silently) every morning during the national anthem. Our school just has the pledge of allegence. It's weird, but if there are people with better things to do walking around in the halls during the pledge, the teachers go out and stop them for the duration of the pledge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #170   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostSaturos Striker, on Dec 18 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But still, in Europe America seems like a big cry baby. Allways wanting their way. The easiest example, Iraq. They go to the UN, UN says no. Germany and France call a veto. And still.. they go and invade Iraq.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But is it true then that in the southern states they start a school day by singing to the flag?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      First of all, BUSH wanted to invade. At the time, people did back him due to fear of terrorism, and ate what he said. There were plenty of other people (A WHOLE LOT), that didn't support the war from Day 1. People need to stop making generalizations about Americans, and look at the big picture.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And all states start the day with the pledge (I believe), but like Platinum Sun said, you can stand silently. (Ever since that big issue with the reference to God).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #171   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 18 December 2006 - 03:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The flag thing reminds me of nazi-germany. They used to do that. (Don't kill me for this remark, it's perfectly allright to sing to the flag, but every day is a bit over the top in my opinion.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        And for the Iraq question, I was referring to the government. I know that there are loads of people in America who don't support the war.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In fact I think the bigger part wants the war to stop and the forces to retreat. The senate elections showed that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #172   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 18 December 2006 - 05:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          heh. You know a little history a while back in America shows why republicans are better. Iran had taken a few hostigages and Carter at the time was President. As a democrat he negotiated for 4 years. then when Regan won the election the president of Iran released them because he knew regan would bomb Iran. People own't support the war, because the Democrats and the drive by media won't admit really how the war is going. They just want the democrats to win.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #173   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 18 December 2006 - 05:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            They tell us how the war in Iraq is going EVERYDAY, and by the looks of it, it seems that we've torn them into the brink of a civil war, and the Iraq government that can't control the people yet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #174   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 18 December 2006 - 06:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It looks that way because that's exactly what the liberal media wants you to think.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #175   Someone Else 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You don't "sing" to the flag, your recite the pledge. This is our pledge:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, for Liberty and Justice for all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I stand, but I don't recite the pledge. I don't because I've been doing it for the last 10 or so years that I've been in school. It's ANNOYING. My school hasn't done the pledge recently, though.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #176   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  NOBODY in my school recites the flag, besides the people saying it on the loud speaker. We pretty much just stand up for it for about 10-15 secs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #177   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It sounds like a sadly forced activity to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #178   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The school I go to don't pray, recite the national anthem, pledge or anything -__- ... Though, we Christians have our own little get together before our classes start for about 15mins (we do it on our own, not with the school or anything, and we aren't obliged to go)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The school I went before was a Catholic school, and there we prayed every morning (didn't have a choice)... On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays we sang the national anthem and our school song. I didn't complain about it, I loved doing it ^^

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #179   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No if it was forced you would have to recite it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It looks that way because that's exactly what the liberal media wants you to think.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        exactly. In order to really know you have to ask someone who has been there (By that I mean one of the soldiers).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #180   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostHotshot101, on Dec 19 2006, 12:11 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          heh. You know a little history a while back in America shows why republicans are better. Iran had taken a few hostigages and Carter at the time was President. As a democrat he negotiated for 4 years. then when Regan won the election the president of Iran released them because he knew regan would bomb Iran. People own't support the war, because the Democrats and the drive by media won't admit really how the war is going. They just want the democrats to win.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm just guessing that your a biased republican.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As for the media, they can't be that biased. The liberty of the media lets the show what they want to. The bosses of media networks have different opinions. Because if that isn't so, you've got a media monopoly, which isn't free.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #181   PDM 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I love hotshot's blinders.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #182   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 19 December 2006 - 08:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dude the media is that biased. Bet you if a democrat becomes president (if that happens) the media will say that the economy is going great everything si all good. Hogwash! they just say that to support the librals! AS you see they say everything is bad while bush is in office and that is just not true. And the story I said was true. Look it up in the history books or the internet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #183   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostSaturos Striker, on Dec 19 2006, 07:14 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm just guessing that your a biased republican.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. The senate elections showed that the people of the America are supporting the democrats more then the republicans. So they're bound to put the democrats in a good daylight to keep and attract viewers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Everyone knows Bush does enough good things. In Europe we don't really see that face of him because the good things hardly concern us. The bad things do, so we're bound to get a more negative picture of him then the regular American.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3. Is Bush in the history books already? He probably will with the 2nd Gulf War and terrorist attacks on the WTC. And that's probably not the best way to go down in history.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View PostHotshot101, on Dec 19 2006, 09:41 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  dude the media is that biased. Bet you if a democrat becomes president (if that happens) the media will say that the economy is going great everything si all good. Hogwash! they just say that to support the librals! AS you see they say everything is bad while bush is in office and that is just not true. And the story I said was true. Look it up in the history books or the internet.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'd like to quickly state that Bush really isn't in history books, mostly the 9/11 attacks are in it, they may only include him in a sentence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As to what Hotshot said, I don't have to say much because SS pretty much summed it up. Still, i'm not gonna lie that Bush hasn't done some decent things for our country, but looking at the bigger picture here, i'd have to say America's image with the world has deteriorated more with him in office, than it was before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #185   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 19 December 2006 - 05:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostSaturos Striker, on Dec 18 2006, 10:14 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm just guessing that your a biased republican.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As for the media, they can't be that biased. The liberty of the media lets the show what they want to. The bosses of media networks have different opinions. Because if that isn't so, you've got a media monopoly, which isn't free.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I would guess that too, but it doesn't make it any less true. The terrorist won't budge if you offer them candy, they'll only budge if you threaten to punch their lights out. Previous situations with them haas proved that. Democrats want everybody to be all lovey dovey with eachother, and they try their hardest to do it. The problem with that, is that it won't ever happen. People will always hate other people, whether they're for good reasons or bad reasons. The only way to settle disputes in this world (most of the time) is to show a little force.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #186   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 19 December 2006 - 07:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The only problem to me is that Republicans are being to narrow-minded here. (Sorry, but its the truth), It is IMPOSSIBLE to completely eliminate terrorists from our world. As long as their are people that would do anything for their cause, there will be terrorists. We can't go all around the world trying to find terrorists and eliminate them, because more will always spring up somewhere. It began during the Roman Empire, and its been around that long. Trying to eliminate them all now is like trying to see the back of your head with your own to eyes (Mirrors excluded -_- ).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Showing force will only provoke them into wanting revenge. Thus, it'll be a never ending cycle of violence. Get my point?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #187   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 19 December 2006 - 09:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostSaturos Striker, on Dec 19 2006, 01:42 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. The senate elections showed that the people of the America are supporting the democrats more then the republicans. So they're bound to put the democrats in a good daylight to keep and attract viewers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Everyone knows Bush does enough good things. In Europe we don't really see that face of him because the good things hardly concern us. The bad things do, so we're bound to get a more negative picture of him then the regular American.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Is Bush in the history books already? He probably will with the 2nd Gulf War and terrorist attacks on the WTC. And that's probably not the best way to go down in history.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. they do because the republicans didn't even vote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. yes he does. you should believe the negative picture. Europeans must be more libral then some Americans except they have some spine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. I was talking about the story with Regan. Bush ain't in the history books just yet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        as for GD yes I would say its hard to eliminate terrorists (stupid jihadists), but we can't sit back and do nothing can we? If do nothing we will just get bombed until where all dead. We can't negotiate are way out of this so scratch off the American left's way. We have to fight back. Although we can't just go zooming all threw out the world either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #188   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 20 December 2006 - 02:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And if we do something like we are now, we end up with soldiers being killed and tons of money in debt. The easiest way to settle these things is through peace talks, but thats not possible since violence runs the world today.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #189   Platinum Sun 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 20 December 2006 - 03:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Peace talks only work when your foe is a country. Our enemy is a group of radical fundamentalists hiding in caves. They only come out to set off some car bombs and launch SAM's at our aircraft. I doubt that they will attend peace talks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #190   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 20 December 2006 - 03:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Didn't Hezbollah attend peace talks to end the fighting with Israel?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #191   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 21 December 2006 - 10:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostGolden Djinn13, on Dec 20 2006, 03:04 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And if we do something like we are now, we end up with soldiers being killed and tons of money in debt. The easiest way to settle these things is through peace talks, but thats not possible since violence runs the world today.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dude there has been mabye 3,000 killed in the war. Compare that to the tens of MILLIONS KILLED IN WWI and WWII and those presidents where democratic. They saw the light so why don't you? Owned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #192   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 21 December 2006 - 01:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  O yeah... Hitler was such a democratic guy. <_<

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 21 December 2006 - 01:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    He also wasn't a president. Hotshot is talking about the American leaders that sent those soldiers to die. NOT the holocaust.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #194   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 21 December 2006 - 02:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My bad, but still, the fact that tens of millions died in World War one and two doesn't justify the deaths of 3000 in Iraq. And Iraq isn't even a world war.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #195   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 21 December 2006 - 02:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes I was talking about the American leaders not Hitler. Those democrats had a back bone. And those soldiers didn't die for nothing! They died protecting the world. If it was say Nancy Palosy or some other democrat then the would would be hitlers. Thats the problem with the democrats and that is the problem with trying to talk to an opponent who won't listen. Are soldiers today are dieing for the same cause. Grant it there are fewer deaths, but still. Don't think everything the media or someone else tells you is true. Probally where you here all this crap about us. Its not true at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #196   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 21 December 2006 - 02:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What sources are reliable then? The bush government? You're saying that everything the media says is bullcrap, but they are theoreticly the most neutral party out there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The World Wars actually concerned the protection of a country. Now America is invading Iraq, like Germany did with Europe. This war wasn't necesary, maybe if they did have nuclear weapons, but this has been discussed in the Iraq War topic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #197   Golden Djinn13 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hotshot, where are you going with this argument? So many people died in the World Wars, because that involved so many countries. The Iraq War only involves 3 main ones or so. We are getting so off topic, but if our soldiers are not dying for the same cause. If they were, where is the threat? Where were the weapons that we heard about everyday? Cause if Iraq was a threat, I obviously didn't see it if we were able to get control of their country in about a week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #198   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 21 December 2006 - 06:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              THe media is bull crap think about it for a moment. Here when a republican is in office they say everything is bad and they try to get him out of office. Then when a democrat is in office they say everything is great. NOw the weapons of mass destruction where not proven to be real or fiction. For all we know saddam had plenty of time to move them out. Second would you want to risk getting bombed if you thought your opponent had WMDs. Would you? I think not.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 21 December 2006 - 08:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hotshot, lets be realistic. THERE ARE NO WEAPONS. If there were weapons, don't you think they would have use d that to help persecute Hussein in his trial, instead of just using genocide (whatever charges they gave him for killing those people)?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #200   Hotshot101 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 21 December 2006 - 09:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes they had no proof they existed or not. Let be smart now. Saddam had plenty of time to move them out if he had any. So for all we know there could have been some they are just somewhere else. They didn't use them against him in the trial because they couldn't get to them before he shipped them. Besides that, again answer my question. Would you want to just sit around and do nothing if you thought a country did have and would shoot you with WMD. Would you risk that? Thats what bush did. He didn't take the chance. Would you take that chance if you knew you could wake up one day dead?


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