[Golden Legacy]

The question of whether Turkey should be accepted as a member of the European Union has been going on for years, and extends over cultural, geographical, political, and economic debates.

Some background on the situation:
http://en.wikipedia....i/Turkey_and_EU

Recent News:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/07...y.ap/index.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B3A...B02BA4606FF.htm


Your thoughts, suggestions?

[Aquamarine]

No. Simple as that. Turkey has no rights to be in the European Union. Their country is not in Europe. Does this mean that Algeria could enter the EU? Well, probably, considering it's as much a part of Europe as Turkey is. Both Turkey and Algeria are quite close to Europe and share the same seas as European countries, but neither of them are in Europe.

[TheEnglishman]

Interesting point that I saw in the Wiki reference:

Quote

There are alleged double standards in the requisites for Turkish membership. While some refuse Turkey's admission on the grounds of its territory being mostly Asian, Cyprus is also considered to be geographically Asian.

As for my opinion it wouldn't bother me too much either way. However if they were allowed in then I would be interested to see what happens to Cyprus, especially the nrthern section which is Turkish.

[Golden Legacy]

Aquamarine, on Dec 13 2006, 08:13 AM, said:

No. Simple as that. Turkey has no rights to be in the European Union. Their country is not in Europe. Does this mean that Algeria could enter the EU? Well, probably, considering it's as much a part of Europe as Turkey is. Both Turkey and Algeria are quite close to Europe and share the same seas as European countries, but neither of them are in Europe.

Me111 brought up a good point about Cyprus. And at any rate, does it really matter if "technically", Turkey is not entirely in Europe (3% vs. 97% in Asia). Turkey has historically played an influential role; it's centered at the heart of the trade links between Europe, Asia, and the Middle East; it was the land of the great city of Constantinople, capital of the Byzantine (sp?) empire, etc.

[Golden Djinn13]

Not that I don't think they are important to Europe, but I just don't think that because they have had history with Europe and have important ties there, I still don't think they should be a member. They might as well let Russia into the EU if they admit Turkey in.

[Saturos S.]

Is this matter that big in America as well?

Well, last year I had to debate about Turkey's permittance to the EU. I had to be pro (support their permission.) The main argument for pro were that they'd be the bridge to the middle east, greaten the grip on the mediteranean ports and something geografical.

The main contra argument was their not having the basic civil rights.

[Neo]

I find it rather hard to decide my own opinion. My view on Turkish people isn't what you can call positive, but that is merely because here in the Netherlands they, both with people from Marocco, are considered the most violent and worst criminals in the country -- but that's just an intergration problem which has been going on here for the last 15 years. As far as I have learned, Turkish people themselves are very friendly, yet quite strange. I've never been there, but some of my friends have, and they told me that it's a beautiful place and the population is very easy-going.

Overal I wouldn't see a problem in them joining, except for the fact that there is a change that the migration towards our countries will increase, and that finding a place here would be easier for them, which at this point we are trying to reverse (Holland is camped with a serious problem, as we are at the point of setting out 26k muslims, whilst some others here want to keep them). I can only say that my view on this is rather blurred, so I cannot make a 100% honest comment on this at the moment.

Riad, may I ask about your view on this matter?

[Aquamarine]

GD13 took the words out of my mouth. I know a lot about Turkish history, since my country was for 500 years under the Byzantine Empire, but history is not a valid reason for letting Turkey enter the EU.
Realisticaly, Russia could be in the EU since a large part of the country is in Europe, but for some reason it isn't. But the main reason that classifies a country as a possible EU country has been forgotten. It is not anymore about the geographical position, but all about business. If it isn't useful for Britain, Germany, France... to have Russia in then they won't allow it to enter. If the Russian politicians think they are better off not being a part of the EU, then they won't think about joining it.

@Neo: Your friends must have lied then. Greece is a much more beautiful country than Turkey. Also, the people in Turkey talk to you in a really nice way, but that is only their plan to get you to spend your money in their shop, restaurant... and that is so obvious. Greeks are nice, but in a more real way than the Turks.

[TheEnglishman]

Although I can't say I've ever been to Turkey, I have visited Northern Cyprus and it isn't quite as nice as the south. That's just my feeling though.

[Saturos S.]

Greek people are more... money hogging then Turks in Turkey in my opinion. And the plumage sucks in both countries. You have to throw toilet paper in the bin because otherwise the pipes gtet clogged.

I think I clogged the things 5 times in one holiday.

[Aquamarine]

Ah yes. The infamous toilet-paper-in-the-bin. Brings back memories...

Anyhow, I guess it just depends on where you go. Where I always go to in Greece the people aren't as money hogging as the people in the part of Turkey I've been to.

[TheEnglishman]

Saturos Striker, on Dec 15 2006, 05:44 PM, said:

Greek people are more... money hogging then Turks in Turkey in my opinion. And the plumage sucks in both countries. You have to throw toilet paper in the bin because otherwise the pipes gtet clogged.

I think I clogged the things 5 times in one holiday.

Probably the worst thing about visiting Cyprus. ;)
I can't say I ever noticed any money hogging in my experiences though. I guess I didn't look closely enough.

[Saturos S.]

Still, the biggest concern about Turkey is the migration threat. They fear that tons of turks will come to France, Holland, Belgium, Germany. England isn't that threatened due to being an island.

[PDM]

I had a huge like 10 paragraph post about yes they should enter the European union, but then I just said **** it and clicked back to off-topic.

[TheEnglishman]

Saturos Striker, on Dec 18 2006, 06:41 PM, said:

Still, the biggest concern about Turkey is the migration threat. They fear that tons of turks will come to France, Holland, Belgium, Germany. England isn't that threatened due to being an island.

There are tons of immigrants coming into Britain from France. If Turkey was allowed in then it's likely that they would come over as well.

[Golden Legacy]

Neo_Genesis, on Dec 13 2006, 06:05 PM, said:

Overal I wouldn't see a problem in them joining, except for the fact that there is a change that the migration towards our countries will increase, and that finding a place here would be easier for them, which at this point we are trying to reverse (Holland is camped with a serious problem, as we are at the point of setting out 26k muslims, whilst some others here want to keep them). I can only say that my view on this is rather blurred, so I cannot make a 100% honest comment on this at the moment.

Riad, may I ask about your view on this matter?

I personally believe that Turkey deserves to be a part of the European Union. I've touched on some of the reasons why in a previous post, namely that Turkey has been an integral part of history (from what I've read and know about, at least) in many ways, and especially in Europe's history, even if it may not be the "classic European country" that you think of when you consider Britain, France, the Netherlands, etc.

However, another reason is that Turkey is a prime example of the separation of church and state. Even though the vast majority of its people are Muslim, the country itself is run on a secular basis. I find it intruiging that even with the country's people being religious (and including minorities of Christians and other ethnic groups, of course), the state has functioned without that religious basis, at least in the past few decades.

[Ravenblade]

I think at this point, having a predominantly Muslim country in the Eu would be a pretty good move, especially if Europe takes more direct hits from the Middle Eastern States.

I very much doubt it'll do much to our economy so im cool with that.

I do not want loads of Turkish immigrants to come flooding into Britain but if they go elsewhere, i dont mind that much either...

The simple truth is that if the EU could unite *properly* we would collectively be a greater force in the world than the US. The EU's collective economy does outrank that of the United States afterall. If having turkey included is going to make Muslim members of the EU feel more comfortable and at ease and stuff, then im for it - the sooner we unite, the sooner we stop getting pushed around. But then, if it brings more conflict then i say we just kick them straight back out again.

[Golden Legacy]

It's not going to bring about conflict. As I said, Turkey makes sure to avoid bringing religion into its politics. It's the same with the nations of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, etc. they are all official candidates for the EU as well, despite years of turmoil and warfare that produced many refugees.

[Ravenblade]

Turkey recently invited the Pope to come and persuaded him to support their bid to join the EU (even though he had started the journey saying he wasnt going to get involved). They may be secular but that proves their government will use religion as much as it needs to in order to get what it wants.

And im gonna say, i think the current political conflicts come from desire for power under the guise of religion rather than religion itself, so even if Turkey is genuinely secular, it doesnt mean they cant bring in some conflict. Im just gonna be wary about them since its effectively my community they're entering into.