[Golden Legacy]

Europe has always fascinated me with its politics and culture, and this is one of the stories I've kept up with for a long time now.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7249034.stm

Kosovo has officially declared its independence from Serbia! The jubilation of its people, I can only imagine what it must be like. However, it appears that Belgrade is contesting the decision (obviously), and Russia too hasn't recognized the move.

[Eugine]

Hope Aqua posts in this topic so we can understand why Serbia refuses to recognise Kosovo's independence.

Anyway, I personally disagree with the independence. First of all, Kosovo homes many of Serbia's national relics, and I think the Albanians have no right to enter Serbian territory and claim it as their own. I honestly believe it will be better for the Albanians to return to Albania and develop their own country, because honestly there will always be some hostility between the Serbs and Albanians.

But then, I hardly see why Serbia should hold on to something that is longing for freedom.

[TheEnglishman]

I heard about this story today. It seems great at first, but when you realise how the move is unrecognised by Russia, and the violent scenes that have already occured, it may turn out to be a decision they regret.

[Saturos S.]

It's been coming for weeks, years really. But these last few weeks have just been the matter of time thingie. Can't say I'm too thrilled about it, it will only cause more political turmoil within the EU. They'll probably want to join in time, and I don't really like that more and more money of the richer European countries keeps going to the ex-commy countries that want to join.

[Gio]

Who knows maybe it will work out for them. We should wait and see.

[Saturos S.]

O, I don't care what happens to them, I just don't want them joining the EU till they have a decent economy, one that doesn't needs funding.

[Gio]

You know me being from the U.S. and all I think it would be great to see another nation gain its feedom and Independence. I am so far away from there though that I not sure that I care all that much.

[kate]

I actually knew about this before my parents did which is surprising because I never know about current events :o

My dad said that he doesn't know why Serbia has such a problem with it since so many countries have been breaking off in that area or something...he mentioned yugoslavia and then I got lost x.x

[Aquamarine]

Ah yes, Kosovo. The topic of the day for everyone in Serbia.

Kosovo has always, ALWAYS been Serbian territory. Through history, countless Serbs have died defending this part of our country from many a conquerer. Kosovo houses many of the greatest Serbian monasteries and churches.

Kosovo doesn't deserve independence in any way. They are not their own people; Some are Serbs while most are Albanians. They do not have their own culture, or language, or their own flag for God's sake.

As I said, in the past years many more Albanians have been living there than there have been Serbs. But unrightfully so. The Serbs there are terrorized day in and day out by the Albanians. Of course, you guys won't be able to hear that information anywhere else, because America and the EU doesn't want anybody to know.

Now don't get me wrong: I couldn't care less whether Kosovo belonged to Serbia, Albania, Peru or any other frickin' country, or whether it's a country of its own for that matter. For centuries, Kosovo has brought people only death and more death. For some reason, it seems to be the perfect place for wars and killings. Serbia doesn't need that, so I don't understand why everyone here wants it to remain a part of our country, since if it did, it would only continue the fight between us and the Albanians. It's just that Serbs have this false sense of honour, and they want the homes of their ancestors to remain within the borders of their country.

Having said that, I'm going on a protest march through Belgrade on Thursday that our politicians have called all Serbs to attend. Not because I want Kosovo back, like most people here, but because I'm sick of ****ing America and the ****ing EU thinking that they have ANYTHING to do with our affairs, and acting like they're doing this for the good of all people on the Balkan, when actually they have their own reasons for doing this.

If a Mod edits any part of my post which, by the way, can't be insulting to anyone, it will be breaching of the so-called democratic "freedom" and "human rights".

[kate]

...do you live in serbia?

[Aquamarine]

Yes.

[kate]

well that explains that then :o

k I'm gonna go ahead and assume aqua knows like 50x more about this than I do.

that also explains why they were waving british and american flags instead of their own..

[Aquamarine]

This is a petition against Kosovo independence that I've signed, of course. Reading the comments, I see that people from all around the world have been signing it. I was surprised to see a huge number of Polish people signing it. Here are some of the more interesting(yet completely true) quotes:

KEEP SERBIA UNITED! Kosovo is a historical Serbian territory and Albanians are only migrants there!!! They already have a state...in Albania!!! - Anonymous, Germany

U.N. Law is the backbone of modern world's stability. Demagogy about this "solution" and accusation of "Serbian violence" is pure lies. I've just returned home from the streets. I've just seen the "violent protests" - I've seen fifty high school kids shouting "Serbia!", being followed by 5 (that's FIVE) police cars, ready to take them to the precinct. While on Kosovo there's HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ALBANIANS SHOOTING AND LEGALISING THEFT OF 10,887 km² (4,203 sq mi), complete with natural resources, and infrastructure worth dozens of billions of dollars. There's no reciprocity here. No standards. No truth. No justice. Not even logic, beyond the "might makes right" sense. - Nikola Avramov, Serbia

So now Puerto Rico and Hawaii are free too?????? - Zorica Lukovic , Canada

We don't want Taliban in Kosovo. - Bart Pawliszewski, California

This is a shame for the world. To recognize a quazi-state led by terrorists, and slap Serbia, a perennial ally to the west in the face again. A shame! And to see that the Serbs are being bashed on again as angry nationalists even now when they are robbed of their culture and history is ubeleivable. The only thing that I can say is that KARMA works in weird ways.....so even though your conscience appears clear at this moment, it will soon be clouded and stained - Anonymous, California

[Moonear]

Water Dude, on Feb 19 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

Islam is war and xenophobic.

How is that true? Please explain to me.

[Saturos S.]

Well, at the moment, the Netherlands havn't recognised Kosovo yet. They staying neutral till at least Monday. See how things escalate.

So far, Serbia has made their ambassy in America vacate, and members of the French and British ambassy have been requested to leave in the next 48 hours.

As far as my opinion goes, Kosovo is better of with Serbia in my opinion. I don't see any reason for them to have or get their own nation. Unnecessary problems should always be avoided.

[Eugine]

Wait Aqua... Rather than just say those stuff, care to provide some sources? I was actually reading some stuff which contradicts my first post.

That is, the Albanians were there before the Serbs through Skanderbeg, and that the Albanians always outnumbered the Serbs.

And man, read this
http://balkaninsight...main/news/7979/

Anyway, I personally take back my first statment. I'm not sure if I'm for or against the independence x.x

Oh and ihk, he is quoting someone from the petition I assume. Posting it here shows that he agrees with the satement though...

[Saturos S.]

There's no point in independence if you weren't suppressed in the first place.

That's my main point on this.

[Eugine]

But what is the point of staying 'officially' part of a country when you run an almost independent state?

[Saturos S.]

Costs, you need your own tax system, government, import/export agreements, everything.

Why do you think the EU was founded, we're more or less becoming one country economically speaking.

[Eugine]

Kosovo had its own tax system, government, import/export agreements since around 1990 (the post war era).

It is now only 'officially' independent.

[Aquamarine]

.eugine, on Feb 19 2008, 08:45 PM, said:

Wait Aqua... Rather than just say those stuff, care to provide some sources? I was actually reading some stuff which contradicts my first post.

That is, the Albanians were there before the Serbs through Skanderbeg, and that the Albanians always outnumbered the Serbs.

I don't know what the hell you were reading, but how about simply checking out the Medieval History of Kosovo. Of course, there are other nations mentioned(such as the Bulgarians and the Byzantines), but probably a couple of simple sentence explains it all: During this time Kosovo became the cultural, religious and political heart of the Serbian Kingdom. Numerous Christian monasteries were erected, such as the Visoki Dečani monastery. This was before any Albanians set fot on Kosovo.

ihatekraden, on Feb 19 2008, 08:10 PM, said:

How is that true? Please explain to me.

I apologize, I do not think that. Heck, I don't even know enough about Islam to call it "war and xenophobic". I don't even know what that quote's doing there, I probably wasn't paying attention and accidentally copied it.

[Moonear]

I don't understand why Kosovo would need to be a separate nation. It just seems pointless and rather stupid to break away from a nation which they've been part of for hundreds of years.

[Eugine]

Aqua I know this situation is personal to you, and I admit its impossible for me to know more about this situation than you, but can you read the same link you posted again?

Kosovo was a part of Illyrian Dardania before the Roman conquest. (this is the very first sentence)
The Illyrian Dardania (click the link on the wiki) are direct desendents of the Albanians, and this was the first civilization of Kosovo x.x

[Aquamarine]

.eugine, on Feb 19 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

Aqua I know this situation is personal to you, and I admit its impossible for me to know more about this situation than you, but can you read the same link you posted again?

Kosovo was a part of Illyrian Dardania before the Roman conquest. (this is the very first sentence)
The Illyrian Dardania (click the link on the wiki) are direct desendents of the Albanians, and this was the first civilization of Kosovo x.x

What are you even talking about? They don't mention anywhere in that link that the Dardanians were ancestors of the Albanians. All it mentions is that the name Dardanoi and Dardania perhaps have some Albanian roots, but those two words apparently may also come from the Greek language.

[Eugine]

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl...aniaancient.htm
Read this Aqua.

Yeah, I admit this is debatable unless they find some DNA evidence, but atleast the Albanians have the upperhand in the "We were there first!" debate.
I do admit that the historial and cultural value Kosovo has to Serbia is more than the Albanians though...
Hence why I said, I'm undecided. It's always great to read stuff like this, so during my free time I'll do more research.

[Saturos S.]

.eugine, on Feb 19 2008, 09:46 PM, said:

Kosovo had its own tax system, government, import/export agreements since around 1990 (the post war era).

It is now only 'officially' independent.

So, what's the point in the title change?

From what I've heard they were even independent enough to start having there own ethnic minorities there, and even giving them less rights then "kosovians."

[Eugine]

Dunno.
To accelerate its EU membership?

In any case, the Serbs will have to accept Kosovo as an independent state since not doing so will only hinder their EU membership acceptance.

[Aquamarine]

From Wikipedia, on the origin of Albanians: However, despite their linguistic uniqueness, studies in genetic anthropology suggest that the Albanians come from the same common source as most other European peoples. So, it seems more probable that the Albanians aren't descendants of the Illyrians who lived on Kosovo before the Serbs, but "come from the same common source as most other European peoples", which could easily mean Serbs too.

Not only that, but the Kosovian Albanians aren't even saying that they've lived there since forever like the Serbs are, which might mean they don't believe their ancestors were on Kosovo before the Serbs.

Anyhow, I'm glad you're putting up a good fight Eugine. This is interesting.

And yeah, as much as I dislike saying this, I'm almost 100% sure that Kosovo WILL be independent, and that anything Serbia or Russia or China do is useless.

[Saturos S.]

The EU hasn't even decided wether they want to recognise Kosovo or not.

Sure, big people like France, Germany and Britain recognize them as a country, but Spain doesn't, the Netherlands and Finland are still doubting.

I do hope though, when the Netherlands decides to recognize Kosovo, they give a better reason then the US or France, Germany and Britain. They didn't give a good to any reason at all.

[Eugine]

I agree SS. I'm still waiting for the reasons as to why they accepted Kosovo as an independent country.
Anyway, most likely the EU will accept Kosovo since the countries you listed has the most world influence.

Anyway, Aqua the same Wiki has my claims. I admit, it isn't conclusive though x.x

[Golden Legacy]

Protests have continued as Russia continues to "lead" the condemnation of Kosovo's declaration, and Serbia appears to have withdrawn its embassy in the United States as a result.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7252874.stm

Most recent breaking news, Kosovo Serbs have set fire to two border points in protest. I also strongly recommend clicking on the link that shows a map of Kosovo's ethnic breakdown (it's at the bottom of the page).

[Aquamarine]

Well, it's obvious what you think about Kosovo independence, GL. Oh, and it's more than obvious what BBC thinks. How you, and all the other Americans, can blindly believe everything they say is beyond me.

Indeed it is true that Serbian civilians have burned down the border. And I agree doing that is sad and stupid. However, I fully understand why they're doing it. Heck, I would do similar things and feel great joy if I knew this wasn't going to give Serbia a bad name, and if I had the time, and if it were safe, and if it was in my nature, and if it simply wasn't a retarded thing to do. You see, we are absolutely sick of everyone in the world taking away our territory and making us seem like the bad guys.

Of course, our politicians are pleading for the couple of thousands of Serbs that feel the need to destroy to stop doing so. Yes, I know what you're thinking, I'm sure your TV stations and newspapers have been saying that ALL eight million inhabitants of Serbia have been going on destruction sprees, and not only the couple of thousand of war-loving idiots that can be found in every country of the world. I'm also sure that the world is unaware of the daily calm protests and marches that take place in almost every city and town of Serbia, where people simply walk through the streets.

Our portrait as the evil of this world has been going on for years and years. America simply wants to extend it's power into Europe, so they have to find somebody to blame for every single thing since the Second World War. And the EU is playing along, because they're nothing but ass-kissers.

And perhaps that ethnic breakdown on BBC is true, because Albanians have taken over Kosovo by terrorizing the Serbian inhabitants there. Of course, the world(and especially Americans, like you) won't know about many of these things, because the powerful countries of the world don't want you to know. However, there are definitely more than 10% Serbian inhabitants there. I probably won't be able to prove this though, because America and the EU certainly wouldn't allow any big TV stations or websites to have the true information. Also, another "inaccuracy" in that BBC text is that those four Serbian monasteries are the only ones. Maybe they're the largest, but they're definitely not the only ones. There are many, many more, all of which house Serbian history, tradition and culture.

I'm holding a Serbian newspaper in my hands, in which there are two pages about the burning of the Kosovo border. It's very similar to the BBC news link you provided, but unlike the BBC text, it doesn't show us Serbs in an evil light and show the Albanians as the poor, oppressed peoples. It doesn't present us in a good way either, it simply states the facts, which BBC could try doing too.

Also in today's paper is a story of a young lad, only 20 years old, called Vladan Dragovic. He died a couple of day's ago in an accidental fire in Novi Sad, a city at the north of Serbia, far away from Kosovo, which is to the south. He was born in and used to live in Pec, a Serbian town in Kosovo. However, after the 1999 bombing of Serbia, in which NATO "protected" the "oppressed" Albanian people(and bombed Serbian hospitals and schools, by the way), Albanians came to his house and slayed his mother and grandmother. Of course, he had to run away and live somewhere else in Serbia because the same would have happened to him had the Albanians found him.

[Golden Legacy]

I wasn't trying to insult or provide criticism - I was simply reporting on what news there was on the manner. It's both understandable and expected, and I agree with you on that.

As for:

Quote

And perhaps that ethnic breakdown on BBC is true, because Albanians have taken over Kosovo by terrorizing the Serbian inhabitants there. Of course, the world(and especially Americans, like you) won't know about many of these things, because the powerful countries of the world don't want you to know. However, there are definitely more than 10% Serbian inhabitants there. I probably won't be able to prove this though, because America and the EU certainly wouldn't allow any big TV stations or websites to have the true information. Also, another "inaccuracy" in that BBC text is that those four Serbian monasteries are the only ones. Maybe they're the largest, but they're definitely not the only ones. There are many, many more, all of which house Serbian history, tradition and culture.

Again, I can't speak form first-hand experience, which is where you are coming from. But are you saying perhaps that the ethnic Albanians form Kosovo don't have a long history on the land? That they haven't been there for centuries, settled down and growing? Terrorist acts or violence aside (I'll take your word for it), but I don't see why the Kosovo's have to be fully denied independence - autonomy, at the very least, seems to be in order, just because of the nearly homogeneous demographic there.

[Eugine]

Aqua, the BBC News article was not biased.

BBC News said:

Students in the Serb-dominated town of Mitrovica are organising daily protests at 12.44 pm, referring to UN Security Council resolution 1244 under which Serbia insists it still has sovereignty of Kosovo under international law.

Regards to your third paragraph.

Anyway, Aqua, why exactly should Serbia deny Kosovo's independence?

[Saturos S.]

.eugine, on Feb 21 2008, 12:49 AM, said:

Aqua, the BBC News article was not biased.


Regards to your third paragraph.

Anyway, Aqua, why exactly should Serbia deny Kosovo's independence?

Why should they recognize them?

Spain won't recognize them because there afraid the basks will want their own country. Because of this situation, I'm quite surprised that Ireland IS willing to recognize them, since they've obviously had their fair share of seperatist movements.

The EU is trying to make Europe, economically unified and with a few political things. If countries go a seperate themself, the political unification will become harder, the econimical side of the story won't suffer that much, just needless complicate things.

[Aquamarine]

Eugine, how can you even ask me why we are denying its independence?! We've lost so many parts of our country in the past 10 years or so and we've always kept our mouths shut. Now America and the EU think we're push-overs, so they try to take EVEN more from us. And to make things worse, they want to take away the center of our history, of who we are today! Damnit, we're sick of the more powerful countries flexing their muscles.

Do you think America would so easily let Texas or any other state become independent? Do you think Greece will let Cyprus be independent, or Canada will let Quebec get away with it? Will Spain allow Basque to be independent?

Anyhow, I hope you're all watching CNN! Ha ha, this is a good day to be Serbian. My friends and I were on that protest, but we went home before the attacks on the embassies had started. Man, I'm proud of the people who destroyd the U.S. embassy. I wish I could shake their hands.

LONG LIVE RUSSIA!

[Golden Legacy]

Water Dude, on Feb 21 2008, 03:25 PM, said:

Eugine, how can you even ask me why we are denying its independence?! We've lost so many parts of our country in the past 10 years or so and we've always kept our mouths shut. Now America and the EU think we're push-overs, so they try to take EVEN more from us. And to make things worse, they want to take away the center of our history, of who we are today! Damnit, we're sick of the more powerful countries flexing their muscles.

Do you think America would so easily let Texas or any other state become independent? Do you think Greece will let Cyprus be independent, or Canada will let Quebec get away with it? Will Spain allow Basque to be independent?

I can see where the argument is coming from here. However, Kosovo's declaration of independence isn't seen by all its supporters as a breaking away from Serbia - it's seen as the final dissolution of the former Yugoslavia and the final establishment of the end of that era.

[TheEnglishman]

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7256158.stm
I assume Aqua's talking about this.
I can't say I know everything about the story but it seems strange that Kosovo would want to break away. It doesn't seem like there's much reason for doing so. It would be like if Cornwall broke away from England.

[Eugine]

Water Dude, on Feb 21 2008, 03:25 PM, said:

LONG LIVE RUSSIA!

Wow Aqua. Honestly, communism sucks big time.

And um, when they are Serbians saying "Long live Russia!", you begin to understand why Kosovo wanted to be free from Serbia... Plus, isn't your President/Prime Minister pro-America/EU?
And I think that is a really bad analogy Me111 honestly.

[TheEnglishman]

.eugine, on Feb 21 2008, 09:37 PM, said:

And I think that is a really bad analogy Me111 honestly.

They've got their own flag, and they had their own language. Anything's possible. :P

[Eugine]

Oh wow. It's so sad I overlook the link Me111 posted.

Aqua, I am sorry, but Serbia has lost lots of credibility in my eye for attacking the US embassy. Under no circumstances under international law are you able to attack an embassy x.x

What exactly will Serbia achieve from this?

[Gio]

Quote

Aqua, I am sorry, but Serbia has lost lots of credibility in my eye for attacking the US embassy. Under no circumstances under international law are you able to attack an embassy x.x

What exactly will Serbia achieve from this?

WHO,WHAT,WHEN,WHERE, and WHY?

[Eugine]

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7256158.stm
Me111 posted it few posts ago. I was just lazy to click it >>

[Gio]

That is ridiculous. I think after something as low as that, that Serbia doesn't deserve to have Kosovo.

[Golden Legacy]

Whoa there! While I certainly don't agree with such a violent act, at least try to sense just some of the emotion and hysteria surrounding what's happened recently. Kosovo's declaration of independence has impeded on Serbia's long-standing history and culture, on land that they are intimately tied to for generations and centuries. How can you expect this to not strike the hearts of people so deeply, and not have them feel as though their entire race was undermined and side-stepped in the wake of outside interests and influence in the land?

[Gio]

I do understand that, but understand that my country's embassy was attacked.

[Golden Legacy]

Understand that our country's embassy was attacked.

[Eugine]

The Serbian forces should have protected the embassy from protestors. It is international law
Sorry, but GL read this article on Embassy. It is illegal, and very disrespectful. I know Aqua is going to get angry at me, but peaceful protests are good, and I actually encourage, but doing this is terrible x.x
This isn't going to get Serbia anywhere.

[Gio]

Golden Legacy, on Feb 21 2008, 11:06 PM, said:

Understand that our country's embassy was attacked.

sorry I am used to everyone here being from somewhere other than America. lol

I still think it is wrong, I don't care what kind of feelings they have they shouldn't have attacked our embassy. Our people definitely wouldn't attack their's and I know our police forces wouldn't let anything like that happen.

[Golden Legacy]

Yes, believe me I realize this. It obviously is in violation of international law, and technically a direct attack on the United States (because of the diplomatic mission is an extension of the actual nation itself, as your article mentioned, Eugine). However, what I'm trying to say is that this is something that runs deeper than any international law or jurisdiction - this is about a country, a people, and the land of those people. The emotions that have gotten muddled up in the wake of recent events is deeper and more raw than we can ever imagine unless we are there experiencing, unless we are there feeling betrayed, feeling that even the land of our forefathers and the rich history that the land bestows on the backs of its people is being thrown away and trampled on.

I don't support the attacks, nor do I feel that Kosovo should be denied independence - however, you will never hear me condemn another race or nation, regardless of the circumstances, and I personally not only understand where the Serbian people are coming from (their raw emotion, again something we can't hope to understand), but I will even say that the acts are justified (in some ways) simply because this is something that affects them so deeply, strikes so truly, that nothing less could be expected.

[Gio]

I understand that, but it is still an attack on our nation nonetheless. I assume it will pass and nothing will come of it. As long as it wasn't an attack by the Serbian government and none of our citizens are harmed I am cool. Just mad.

[Eugine]

I understand the incentives, but I honestly do not believe it is justified and nor will it do Serbia any good.
Also, read this article

"There were lesser attacks on other diplomatic missions, but none was entered. Germany said its embassy was attacked, Croatia protested over damage and local agencies said missions of Britain, Turkey and Bosnia were also hit."

This is terrible man.

Also, Kosovo do not belong to Serbia anymore. The Kosovan Prime Minister has already stated Kosovo will protect all Serbian historal and cultural monuments.

[Toasty]

Think of the situation like this:

It's like if Israel had to give up Jerusalem. There's a lot of Israel's history and lineage in there. The same goes for Serbia and Kosovo.

[Golden Legacy]

Toasty, on Feb 22 2008, 03:35 AM, said:

Think of the situation like this:

It's like if Israel had to give up Jerusalem. There's a lot of Israel's history and lineage in there. The same goes for Serbia and Kosovo.

Don't you dare bring up the example of Israel and try to make it seem that the Jews are the only people with a history and lineage in Jerusalem. It's a special case, the Palestinians have just as long a history and just as strong a lineage in Jerusalem as any other people, and the same holds true for the Promised Land as well - they have just as much reason and purpose in fighting for it.

That's a debate for another topic, of course.

[Toasty]

Meh, it was a bad example.

[Saturos S.]

It isn't that different really.

Two groups, who want their own country, fighting over a certain piece of land that holds a religious/historical worth.

Of course you do let out a lot of the details, other reasons and such. But you could stereotype it down to that.

[TheEnglishman]

Whether you agree with Kosovo being independant or not, those protestors haven't improved their case by attacking the US embassy. It's unfortunate that some people are resorting to violence to make their point known. Sadly a peaceful protest will be, in a number of cases, ignored whilst a violent one will grab the headlines.

[Gio]

I think the only reason a peaceful protest would be ignored is because the world disagrees with it. Now even though an violent protest grabs attention, all it is going to do is make other countries mad.

[Saturos S.]

Gio, on Feb 22 2008, 12:40 PM, said:

I think the only reason a peaceful protest would be ignored is because the world disagrees with it. Now even though an violent protest grabs attention, all it is going to do is make other countries mad.

The world disagrees with it? Bugger off.... America and the bigger EU countries aren't the world.

The violent protest did attract the attention, but in a negative way.
A peaceful protest doesn't attract attention because that's not "fun" media to start off with, and that a lot of countries are just showing one side of the picture at the moment.

[Eugine]

I have made my stance finally, and I agree with the US/EU.
Kosovo deserves its independence.

[Saturos S.]

.eugine, on Feb 22 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

I have made my stance finally, and I agree with the US/EU.
Kosovo deserves its independence.

Not the whole EU supports it dagflabbit. Only 3 of the bigger countries.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7249909.stm

[Gio]

Well in that case we agree with the US and the three EU countries.

[Aquamarine]

First off, Eugine, get with the times: Russia hasn't been a communist country since before you were even born.

Once again, I'm sure all of your local TV stations and newspapers said that all five hundred thousand protestors attacked the embassies. Of couse, that's far from true. Only about 300 of those people destroyed and burned stuff. The rest, like myself, simply listened to what some famous Serbian people had to tell us, then we walked through the town(this was before those 300 guys went around destroying stuff) and finally listened to prayers by our priests. Although I fully agree with and respect the people who destroyed the U.S. embassy, I didn't take part in that.

Our police DID defend the embassies, but they couldn't get to the American embassy right away because of the protestors. It took only a very short time for them to ruin the building.

And yes, our President is pro American/EU. However, that doesn't mean I or any other Serb has to be; and we aren't. I WANT Serbia to be in the EU, but only because I want our economy to be better, and that's the reason that our president wants Serbia in the EU. Russia has always been our deariest ally, and it's obvious this won't change since the EU doesn't have a mind of its own; it only listenes to what America tells it to do.

[Eugine]

Russia is fighting to return to communism. Putin has imprisoned opposition members, killed his own people, and so many other things. Russian has a failing ideology, and wouldn't get Serbia anywhere.

Just for knowledge sake - Our regional TV stations and newspapers only cover regional news (specifically CARICOM members and observing countries). I have to depend on the international stations for international news.

[Gio]

Water Dude, on Feb 23 2008, 11:55 AM, said:

First off, Eugine, get with the times: Russia hasn't been a communist country since before you were even born.

Once again, I'm sure all of your local TV stations and newspapers said that all five hundred thousand protestors attacked the embassies. Of couse, that's far from true. Only about 300 of those people destroyed and burned stuff. The rest, like myself, simply listened to what some famous Serbian people had to tell us, then we walked through the town(this was before those 300 guys went around destroying stuff) and finally listened to prayers by our priests. Although I fully agree with and respect the people who destroyed the U.S. embassy, I didn't take part in that.

Our police DID defend the embassies, but they couldn't get to the American embassy right away because of the protesters. It took only a very short time for them to ruin the building.

And yes, our President is pro American/EU. However, that doesn't mean I or any other Serb has to be; and we aren't. I WANT Serbia to be in the EU, but only because I want our economy to be better, and that's the reason that our president wants Serbia in the EU. Russia has always been our dearest ally, and it's obvious this won't change since the EU doesn't have a mind of its own; it only listens to what America tells it to do.

The only place I have heard about all of this is on this site here and the links that have been posted. I think it is great that a group of people want to be free. I don't know much about what is going on over there. I just know that my countries embassy got attacked and that ticked me off a bit. I know there are two groups of people that protested, the violent protesters and the peaceful protesters. I respect the fact that you were among the peaceful group.

[Toasty]

Water Dude, on Feb 23 2008, 09:55 AM, said:

First off, Eugine, get with the times: Russia hasn't been a communist country since before you were even born.

Russia never really quit being communist. They said they did, and they made it look like it, but nothing ever really changed. Take a good hard look at it's more recent (90's to current) history and it's pretty clear. Putin can be thanked for a lot of it.

[Golden Legacy]

Now that the issue has been given sometime for people to get used to, what do you guys think? Are any of you more accepting of Kosovo than you were before (or perhaps you feel more against its declaration of independence)?

[Saturos S.]

Well all of the EU practically accepts them now. But they didn't give no to little reason why they did it. Europe's full of spineless politicians these days. As much as I hate the politicians who polarise the Islam and the threat they form, at least they give reasons and show what they stand for.

The EU has to make a stand, or at least the countries individually, and they need to be able to reason their opinion or actions. That's what annoys me the most in this entire issue.

As for Kosovo being independent? I don't really care what happens to them or there anymore. They're pretty insignificant to us. I only oppose the idea of making your own nation, thus dividing, when there's no need to divide. The only thing it does is create differences, spread hate and such. Long story short, it wasn't worth the effort.

[Eugine]

I think it was worth the effort.

Do you see how great USA is (well, was, to piss Toasty off x3) because they demanded their independence? I hardly see why Kosovo should remain part of Serbia when Belgrade would not be looking towards the best interest of the Kosovans...

[Golden Legacy]

Even so, I will say that my views on Kosovo's declaration of independence has changed. I think Serbia was wronged very much, and I also second SS' previous statement on this only fermenting further division and hatred across peoples.