[Quacnar]

Should one be allowed to take their own life?? This is a contraversial topic, and I wonder what all of you believe. I agree with Dr. Jack Kevorkian, he assisted people who were too ill to take their own lives, by euthanizing them. Of course, towards the end of his suicide assistion, The doctor started to help people that weren't that ill, I only agree with suiocide assistion on the most serious, and painful disabilities and diseases. The current law disagrees with him and myself, saying that all suicide is illegal. What's your take??

[Laharl]

perhaps you'd like to explain how you could enforce such a law? XP

[Gio]

The reason that the government made suicide illegal is so that if someone tried to commit suicide and didn't succeed then the government would have permission to lock them up and provide consoling for them. That is why that law has be put into effect and I completely agree with it.

[Eugine]

*Google's Dr. Kervorkian*
Did you mean: Dr. Kevorkian
*clicks*

He looks freaky x3.

Anyway, I sort of agree with Gio. I personally think suicide is wrong, not because of any legality, but because of my religion and morals.

[Gio]

Yeah he does look freaky. :o
He's all old and wrinkly.

[kate]

I think under certain circumstances it should be legal. I do understand the reason for it being illegal though, so they can provide consuling and such.

Really though, if your quality of life was extremely bad, I think it would be ok...besides if you're successful it doesn't really matter what the law says.

[Gio]

I know I thought it was pretty stupid at first for them to make it illegal because the person who be dead. I did look at some statistics and I forget where I saw them but they said that over 50% of suicide attempts were unsuccessful. So that's why the government did that.

[kate]

...seems to me kinda like they're encouraging suicide XD do it right the first time or we'll lock you up!

[Quacnar]

I agree that if someone WITHOUT extreme medical issues should get counseling if they attempt suicide, buit what about those who are in excruciating pain??

[Gio]

lol maybe

Hadn't thought about it that way lol :o

(in reply to kate. forgot to put quote)

[kate]

<.< pour exemple?

I mean, I was thinking more of people like million dollar baby or whatever...what people live in excrutiating pain?

...don't they have morphine and stuffs o.O

D: oh gawds I sound so dumb. just gimme an example

[Golden Legacy]

This seems to tie in closely with Euthanasia and the controversy surrounding it. Who is responsible for life, the individual or should no one have any say? When does the right to one's own life get ceded over (such as in times of medical extremes), or does it ever hand over that responsibility to someone else?

It's a tricky manner and I honestly can't say what my views are, simply because they become too conflicted with emotion on the topic.

[kate]

Someone in my theory of knowledge class did a presentation on this. See this is one of the times when I really feel bad for the government, because they have to try and apply rules and logic to a very emotional area. Things like this shouldn't be set in stone

[Gio]

Well heck I am all for saving or at least trying to save someone's life by talking some sense into them, and if they don't ever come around I still think it is wrong. I think that committing suicide is the most selfish act out there. You are only thinking about yourself and not the people that care about you, but thats my personal opinion.

[kate]

well...some people's families would rather see them at peace than in pain =/

[Gio]

The chances that the whole family feels that way is slim to none.

I am also guided to my opinion by religious and moral standards.

[kate]

yeeah my religion is against it too, but me not so much. Then again I'm an emo child who thinks a bad hair day is suicide worthy so I'm not the expert to be going to XD

I do know that my mom is in alot of pain and talks about killing herself alot. Now yeah this would really crush me and I would do anything to talk her out of it, as I frequently do, but if she did decide to leave I wouldn't call her selfish.

wow k sorry to get all personal on you there.

"thus conscience does make cowards of us all" Act III scene I of hamlet anyone? XD

[Quacnar]

Untrue, many families would choose to unplug their loved ones.

[Lightning Star]

I think it's a person's choice to live or die, but I don't encourage suicide at the same time.

And this topic made me chuckle as I thought "well gee, what are they going to do? Arrest a dead guy?"

[Gio]

killercoz, on Feb 18 2008, 12:42 AM, said:

Untrue, many families would choose to unplug their loved ones.

Well unplugging someone who is terminally ill and is not coherent is one thing, but we are talking suicide, not medical stuff.

[Lightning Star]

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that we're talking about suicide in terms of ending ones life as a means to escape the world, not to get it over with since you're pretty much dead already.

Wow that last sentence sounded really depressing :o

[Ironsight]

I think somebody should be able to choose whether or not they want to be dead.

[Elliott]

It's a personal preference. I personally don't want to live much past 60 / 70 (I can't see myself enjoying losing my marbles, use of bodily function and the respect of others).

[Moonear]

It's only okay under certain circumstances. Some people say that they have nothing to live for just because they lost their job or their spouse. That is not okay. They are just hurting the people who still love them.

Other people want to commit suicide because they have horrible health problems and it hurts to do the simplest things, such as breathing. This is somewhat understandable.

[Eugine]

It's sad people are losing faith and hope.

Anyway, I honestly believe all governments should do more to prevent suicide, because suicide is actually anti-economic growth. It's really sad when educated politicians and businessmen in Japan commit suicide to show how deeply sorry they are due to a simply mess up.

[Saturos S.]

It should be allowed only if a person has extreme medical problems, as in deep pain, probably going to die anyway.

[Ironsight]

It's they're life. If they want to end it, let them.

[TheEnglishman]

I'd agree. If it's come to a stage where they feel their only exit is death, it would be cruel to stop them.
My only exception would be if it was a criminal who's convicted of a major crime. They should be punished then.

[Eugine]

Honestly, no one can stop someone from taking their life, but we shouldn't give up without a fighting chance.

I've lost friends, not by death, but my migration or different life evolution. Thinking back on the experiences we shared are great, but always painful to realise it is over. It is really hard to see someone I appreciate take their life. It means they had nothing in life to cling on to, which includes me. This makes me sad and angry.

[Ironsight]

Well, yeah. We should try and get people to see the bright side of things, but that doesn't mean we have any right to stop them.

[Eugine]

I honestly believe we should do everything possible to stop them.

We need to make them realise there is something worth living for. Killing someone seems hard, and taking your own life purposely seems even harder imo.
It's really hard for me to picture myself telling a good friend of mines - "Take your life if you want. It's your choice!"
It's downright cruel to me, and I will never give up without fighting.

[Golden Legacy]

DarkSword, on Feb 18 2008, 06:07 PM, said:

Well, yeah. We should try and get people to see the bright side of things, but that doesn't mean we have any right to stop them.

It's called having good morals and the common good ****ing humane sense to do everything we can to prevent it.

[TheEnglishman]

But if the guy's depressed and you're unable to make himself value his life, is it fair to stop him? I don't like the idea of suicide and if it can be prevented then it should be, but if someone really can't cope I don't think it's fair to say they can't. Ultimately the decision should be theirs.

[Golden Legacy]

Me111, on Feb 18 2008, 06:46 PM, said:

But if the guy's depressed and you're unable to make himself value his life, is it fair to stop him?! I don't like the idea of suicide and if it can be prevented then it should be, but if someone really can't cope I don't think it's fair to say they can't. Ultimately the decision should be theirs.

Depression? Value? This is someone's LIFE, how on earth can you undermine its worth? In the face of someone being unable to "value" life? We're human, that's why we experience emotional falls and upheavals, we struggle and pursue and try to make the best of things, and inevitably there are going to be moments, periods of stagnation of purpose, where someone doesn't see a way forward - that's understandable, but just because a person is unable to continue on doesn't mean that it can't be done, and it's up to the people that care to make him or her realize that.

[Gio]

Amen.
Very well said.

I would just about anything to keep a friend from commiting suicide.

[Caael]

It can be illegal, sure, but if you're dead you're not going to get a sentance are you. Just because there's a law doesn't mean it's going to stop people.

[kate]

if your quality of life is sh!t and you don't have a religion that tells you there's some greater purpose to life than I don't see what's wrong with it. Now that's only if you are the person, if you're someone who knows said person then you should try everything to help them see life is worth living. Then again, sometimes it's not.

[Caael]

It's their life. If somebody feels that strongly about something, nobody has the right to stop them. It's their choice, and even if it is something as valuable as life. When i'm about to do something really stupid like beat the crap out of somebody who pissed me off big time, what I hate most and what makes me more angry is when people hold me back and try to prevent me from doing what I want to do.

[Folcon]

Than by your reasoning, hypotheticly, shoul someone stop a suicide bomber if they fell strongly about what they are doing?

[Golden Legacy]

kate, on Feb 18 2008, 10:10 PM, said:

if your quality of life is sh!t and you don't have a religion that tells you there's some greater purpose to life than I don't see what's wrong with it. Now that's only if you are the person, if you're someone who knows said person then you should try everything to help them see life is worth living. Then again, sometimes it's not.

Kate makes a good point here. Just because the person himself (herself) may be contemplating suicide, that does not free you from your obligation of doing what you can to prevent it.

Caael, on Feb 18 2008, 11:03 PM, said:

It's their life. If somebody feels that strongly about something, nobody has the right to stop them. It's their choice, and even if it is something as valuable as life. When i'm about to do something really stupid like beat the crap out of somebody who pissed me off big time, what I hate most and what makes me more angry is when people hold me back and try to prevent me from doing what I want to do.

Caael, if you ever wanted to commit suicide, would you want your family and friends to say "to hell with you, do whatever the **** you want?"

EDIT: note escout's point too.

[Folcon]

Although, in commenting on the parent post about the assistided suicide, depending on the situation, it should not be wrong. My mom has already told me, if something happens and she ends up on life support for the rest of her life with no forseeable chance of recovery, she wants meto pull the plug. And I would want the same thing for me too.

[Caael]

Golden Legacy, on Feb 19 2008, 03:09 AM, said:

Kate makes a good point here. Just because the person himself (herself) may be contemplating suicide, that does not free you from your obligation of doing what you can to prevent it.


Caael, if you ever wanted to commit suicide, would you want your family and friends to say "to hell with you, do whatever the **** you want?"

EDIT: note escout's point too.

I'm not saying people cant stop you, but most of the time it wont make a diference.

[Mysterious Adept]

I am very...cautious i guess you could say when talking about this topic, but ive always felt one way. No one should take their own life. I mean you've been given your life for a purpose, and to say that you want it to be taken from you? Sure i understand that people go through extremely rough times, but that doesnt mean ther isnt more to life than just ending your own. You need to experience more of what the world can offer.

I'm a Christian, and i believe that God put every single person on this earth for a special purpose. Each of us has our own contribution to the world, and if we think that ending our life would be better than sharing yourself with others, then im sorry but somethings wrong. People just need to hold their heads high and always keep in mind that there are better times ahead, maybe not in the immediate future, but its there.

[Caael]

Well if you felt there was nothing left for you, if somebody said ' dont kill yourself' it's not going to make youfeel any better is it

[Golden Legacy]

Caael, on Feb 18 2008, 11:17 PM, said:

I'm not saying people cant stop you, but most of the time it wont make a diference.

Caael, respond to this, won't you? I'll requote it:

Quote

Caael, if you ever wanted to commit suicide, would you want your family and friends to say "to hell with you, do whatever the **** you want?"

And I liked MA's post:

Mysterious Adept, on Feb 18 2008, 11:19 PM, said:

I am very...cautious i guess you could say when talking about this topic, but ive always felt one way. No one should take their own life. I mean you've been given your life for a purpose, and to say that you want it to be taken from you? Sure i understand that people go through extremely rough times, but that doesnt mean ther isnt more to life than just ending your own. You need to experience more of what the world can offer.

Absolutely great point and worded well too.

[Caael]

Well if you're going to kill yourself, you're not really going to want people to try and stop you because they're a hindrance, they slow you down. Sure it's nice to have people on your side, but when you feel you've got nothing left, why bother try and feel better when you know nothings going to help.

[Golden Legacy]

You still are avoiding my question. I wonder if it's on purpose?

"You're not really going to want people to try and stop you because they SLOW YOU DOWN?!" I again ask you, what do you expect your FAMILY and FRIENDS to do? Would you want them to just forget about you and not say or do anything to stop you?!

[Folcon]

Golden Legacy, on Feb 18 2008, 10:38 PM, said:

You still are avoiding my question. I wonder if it's on purpose?

I think he would make a good politician.

[Caael]

I'm not avoiding the question, I answered in the best way I could. This isn't a question any more, this is a preference. If I were going to kill myself, i'd rather people treated me normally than feel all sorry for me and mope about. And once again, when you say you prefer something, they immediately go all pessimistic:

Quote

forget about you and not say or do anything to stop you?!

I never said that, I said I wouldn't have them supporting me. That doesnt mean I would want to be ignored. This isn't a debate anymore, its a clash of opinions.

[Mysterious Adept]

Caael, on Feb 18 2008, 11:35 PM, said:

Well if you're going to kill yourself, you're not really going to want people to try and stop you because they're a hindrance, they slow you down. Sure it's nice to have people on your side, but when you feel you've got nothing left, why bother try and feel better when you know nothings going to help.

Ever thought why they would "slow you down" because they care about you. They understand (especially your family) that there is a whole lot more joy in the world and that they all care about you. Your a part of a family, and a family cares for eachother. So when one person gets sick, all the other members try and help out to make the sick person feel better. Same senario here: Your family will try to stop you because they WANT you to LIVE. They LOVE you and want you to stay with them.

[Caael]

But if you're going to kill yourself anyway no matter what they do, what was the point? The more you try to help somebody, the more you blame yourself when you didn't help them enough.

[Golden Legacy]

Caael, on Feb 19 2008, 12:00 AM, said:

But if you're going to kill yourself anyway no matter what they do, what was the point? The more you try to help somebody, the more you blame yourself when you didn't help them enough.

I challenge your point on two levels - one is you continue to insist that, in some way, the people that love and care about you should suddenly disregard your imminent death (and a self-inflicted one at that), an act that's far too difficult concerning the emotions (and decency) involved. Secondly, your point builds on the assumption that the suicide has been somehow justified - never is it so, regardless of the situation.

[Caael]

Again, a lot of that is opinion.

Quote

in some way, the people that love and care about you should suddenly disregard your imminent death

What I was trying to get across may have come out wrong. It's hard to put it into words. If you're hell bent on suicide and no longer want to live life, would you want to leave with doubts? That you know that people still love you and want you there, despite hating life so much, wouldn't that leave you unrestful once you'd died?

Quote

Secondly, your point builds on the assumption that the suicide has been somehow justified

Thats opinion. You could argue how different cases of suicide are justified or not all day and you wouldn't get anywhere. If I say suicide is the easy way out, others will disagree and say it's the bravest way out.

[Golden Legacy]

That is a fair point you make, and I acknowledge that my response on the latter point is largely opinionated. However, I've been raised and grown to believe that the sanctity of life is one of the "untouchable attributes" of life - the same way murder, rape, adultery, etc. are universally held to be morally wrong, without any need to justify why, I would have always said the same about life and not ending it.

[Caael]

Yeah, you're christian and i'm aetheist so we're going to have different views on the subject for obvious reasons.

[Gio]

I was going to say something but by the time I got through reading the posts it seems as if GL has everything I was going to say covered.

I just thought I would say that I completely agree with him so far.

actually i would like to add this.

And like I said before, suicide is a selfish act. You are thinking about YOUR feelings, not the feeling of grief and sadness that your FAMILY and FRIENDS are going to have when you have left this world.

[Golden Legacy]

Caael, on Feb 19 2008, 12:22 AM, said:

Yeah, you're christian and i'm aetheist so we're going to have different views on the subject for obvious reasons.

Actually, I'm Muslim (Christian blood too, bit of a long story), and these views can be spiritual and moral too, no?


EDIT: Why, thank you Gio. Nicely said as usual.

[Caael]

But ultimately, nobody is totally selfless. Most of the stuff we do is selfish. Why do we watch TV, play games, etc, for personal satisfaction.

Edit: Oh yeah. You were christian at one point, i'm sure. Might have been somebody else.

[Quacnar]

Gio, on Feb 18 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

And like I said before, suicide is a selfish act. You are thinking about YOUR feelings, not the feeling of grief and sadness that your FAMILY and FRIENDS are going to have when you have left this world.

On the contrary the idea of commiting suicide can sometimes have nothing to do with you. WEhenever I have thought of ending my own life, I think it because I feel that I am hated and unwanted by all, so I feel that by ending my life people would be happier.

[Gio]

Of course nobody is completely selfless. There are times when you need to take your own well-being into consideration to protect yourself and survive.

Quote

On the contrary the idea of commiting suicide can sometimes have nothing to do with you. WEhenever I have thought of ending my own life, I think it because I feel that I am hated and unwanted by all, so I feel that by ending my life people would be happier.

Well I am sorry to say this in such a harsh manner, but your wrong. I don't even know you personally and it hurts me to hear that that has crossed your mind. I would not be be happy at all even if it was someone I only knew from the internet.

[Caael]

That's just instinct though. And coz has a very good point. You might not want to die, but you think you would benefit other people's lives by ending yours.

[Gio]

Caael I have edited my previous post and replied accordingly to what he said so go check it out.

[Folcon]

Gio, on Feb 18 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

actually i would like to add this.

And like I said before, suicide is a selfish act. You are thinking about YOUR feelings, not the feeling of grief and sadness that your FAMILY and FRIENDS are going to have when you have left this world.

And what if you have no one. No family, no friends. What then? For some people, they comit suicide because they have lost all their friends and family and have no one left.

[Caael]

He's not wrong, it's opinion. If somebody honestly thinks that ending their life will benefit others, that's not wrong. That's far from wrong, that's almost martyric. You dont have to agree with his point, but it's far from wrong.

[Quacnar]

Its true actually, Im pretty much hated overall.

[Gio]

escout, on Feb 18 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

And what if you have no one. No family, no friends. What then? For some people, they comit suicide because they have lost all their friends and family and have no one left.

This is going to sound a bit harsh

If that is the case they have dorked up. They haven't looked for a way to improve their life and by doing so made themselves feel this way. If someone had no friends I would gladly walk up to them and befriend them. Especially if it would prevent someone from committing suicide.

[Caael]

It's not their fault they dont have family. The only way you cant have family is if they're dead. Some people are also naturally anti-social and dont make friends easily. This could also be the case. If somebody has no friends, there's usually a reason. You cant just walk up and say 'lets be besties' and walk off arm in arm. If they have no friends, they're probably a solitary person and you cant penalise them for that. But if somebody really has nothing to live for at all then what other option do you have?

[Gio]

Well another option you have is the Lord, but of course that's not going to fly with you since your atheist.

Anyway I am out till tomorrow. I can't think straight for lack of sleep and being sick.

[Folcon]

I'll admit, when I was young, I had lots of trouble making friends my own age. I was always being teased and picked on by my classmates. And evertime new student joined the class, they would get to them first and ruin any chance I had at makeing friends. Even in my scout troop, there were few people I really considered my Friends around my own age. Most of my friends ended up being the older scouts in the troop and some kids a few grades higher that had recess at the same time as my class. But after a while, mostly once I got to high school, i came to the conclustion that I just didn't give a **** anymore. I had been ignoreing the teasing the whole time. I finally just stopped giveing a ****. It was in my last few years in High school, and my first years in colege that I've made most of my good friends that I'm still in contact with.

I know this is kinda off topic, I'm justusing it to say that although I never had any real friends till only recently, not counting you guys, I never realy considered susicide an option. I might have thought of running away, but not killing myself. And now, I got friends, a brother that is a friend, and family that keep me up and going when I am depressed. I will agree that suicide is never the answer, but I still don't think people should be punished for it.

[kate]

Honestly most of the times I've contemplated suicide it was to make a point. Of course I got over it in time and realized it wasn't worth it but still, that shows the importance of having people to talk you through it to make sure you're not doing it for the wrong reasons.

I do however believe there are times when it's justified...Like I said before if my mom killed herself I wouldn't consider it selfish and actually you guys I find it a little offensive that you are calling it selfish since I've already had two family members commit suicide. So yeah...if you could just ease up on the insulting.

[Gio]

Well I have said my piece and have deciding that I am going to stay out of this from here on out. sorry if I insulted anyone. It is just the way I think.

[Eugine]

Why do people let other people dictate their happiness? Come on, I have wonderful friends, but should they choose to become distant with me why exactly should I kill myself over it?
No one else can feel the rain on your skin except you. I always recommend Unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield. I know most of you guys will dislike the song, but the lyrics is so damn true.
Just stay true to yourself.

[TheEnglishman]

http://news.bbc.co.u...les/7252732.stm
This story has been dominating the news recently. It seems crazy to me that so many people from one area can kill themselves, but it does show that GL raises an important point about how suicide can affect friends and family. The police say it isn't some sort of pact but it certainly looks that way.
I'll admit that in the points I made before I didn't think about the possible impact on family and friends (which seems a pretty damn obvious point now) but at the same time people who are suicidal but stay alive may just end up getting worse and worse. I guess it's difficult for a happy outcome, unless the person's problems go away.
My view remains that suicide is wrong, but I can understand why people do it and that I think it shouldn't be made illegal if someone's quality of life is so poor that there is no chance of an improvement.

[Kuchiyose]

whoa there was a similar article which involved people from wales thinking killing them selfs and then get a sort of memorial on the internet, it was closely linked to bebo, since this is what caused this: http://news.bbc.co.u...les/7204172.stm. i have to admit, they teens didn't think these things through.

But yeah this is madness, but linking to this, yeah suicide should stay illegal ONLY if its matter that cause a type of pressure (say like finance) but when it comes to pain like terminal disease and the condition just become worse and more painful, they should allow euthanasia, so basically its the quality of life questions. But if pressure is a problem there are ways of working this things out, death isn't really the answer.

[Elliott]

Suicide / euthanasia should never be about making a spectacle of yourself, proving a point or hurting someone else deliberately. If you choose yo end your life it should be a personal choice based on your own feelings. If someone is hurt that you die, then it's just bad luck for them, people die all the time. I'd rather die on my own terms.

[Mysterious Adept]

Agatio, on Feb 20 2008, 06:16 AM, said:

Suicide / euthanasia should never be about making a spectacle of yourself, proving a point or hurting someone else deliberately. If you choose yo end your life it should be a personal choice based on your own feelings. If someone is hurt that you die, then it's just bad luck for them, people die all the time. I'd rather die on my own terms.

True, I would like to die on my "own terms" but deep down in your heart can you truely say that? That you dont really care if someone cares about YOU[b]. Now we all have freewill, but if you love someone (say like your family) but you decided that you cant go on living because of some severe event, wont your conscience get in the way and say "Hey wait a minute, i care about the ppl that love me, is this really what i want to be doing to them?"

I have never known a person who doesnt care AT ALL about their family or other loved ones. So why end your life because of the way your feeling [b]Temporarily?

[Elliott]

I wouldn't choose to end my life because of some "severe event" or because of how I feel temporarily, it would be a long planned decision, I would put my affairs in order, and I would only do it when I felt that I was was ready to say goodbye. I just never want to end up in a nursing home, or being one of those old people you see walking around with a walking frame, I never want to end up like that. I don't intend to have children of my own, and I don't think my parents will outlive me.