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"Spare The Rod And Spoil The Child"

#1   Eugine 

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    Posted 28 February 2008 - 06:17 AM

    Agree or disagree with this statement?
    Discuss :joy:

    oh, btw... we're talking about the literal meaning, not the figurative.

    #2   Caael 

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      Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:03 AM

      What is the literal?

      #3   Ironsight 

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        Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:30 AM

        I don't get the title Eugine, some body please fill me in.

        #4   Folcon 

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          Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:00 PM

          It basicly encourages Corprol Punishment to keep children in line. In other words, beat them. And it comes from religious schools that would litteraly use a rod or cane to beat the child. It was sometimes thought that beating the kid will make them learn better or do better at their assined job.

          #5   Ironsight 

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            Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:53 PM

            Oh. Well yeah, thats bad. I think I would rather just not go to school then :joy:

            #6   Drizzy Drake 

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              Posted 28 February 2008 - 02:05 PM

              If some teacher tried to hit me with a ****ing cane **** would hit the fan.

              #7   Jenna 

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                Posted 28 February 2008 - 02:09 PM

                What Dipsy said. Except instead of beating them back, I'd make them feel like **** and b!tch the phogie out till he cried.

                #8   Drizzy Drake 

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                  Posted 28 February 2008 - 02:10 PM

                  I know everybody will tihnk I'm trying to put up this tough persona, but I wouldn't jsut be throwing punches. I wouldn't give a **** if it was a female, or male teacher, no adult is gonig to lay a hand on me, or rod for that matter.

                  #9   Saturos S. 

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                    Posted 28 February 2008 - 02:23 PM

                    View PostDipset, on Feb 28 2008, 09:05 PM, said:

                    If some teacher tried to hit me with a ****ing cane **** would hit the fan.



                    View PostJenna, on Feb 28 2008, 09:09 PM, said:

                    What Dipsy said. Except instead of beating them back, I'd make them feel like **** and b!tch the phogie out till he cried.



                    People like you need to be smacked.

                    I disagree with it to a certain extend. Sure the teacher shouldn't really hurt the child, but sometimes teachers get sued just because they nudged er palmed the back of child's head. That should be allowed, just a small forced pat should be enough.

                    I seriously doubt any of you put on your gangsta shoes on pop three bullets down that mother****er's ass for that. Seriously, most of you would just take and face it, you're already spoilt. I'm not saying that I always show respect, but children these days show way to little respect to elders these days. 8-year olds calling you (translation) "I hope you suffer cancer" are basically screaming for a punch. Sure, the parents won't like it because most of the time they're undereducated idiots to start with. It just the problem of modern society really. 10-year old girls with phone bills of 50 quid a month just because they ask all their "friends" how they're doing every hour doesn't help either. Parents need to start restricting things. Don't give your son/girl something just because some undereducated twat neighbour is doing it as well. Think for yourself, dammit.

                    Show some respect and they're will be no need of the rod in the first place.
                    Note: by respect I don't mean the gangster bling term, but just the normal respect.

                    #10   Caael 

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                      Posted 28 February 2008 - 02:53 PM

                      I dont see how hurting somebody is going to encourage them to work harder.

                      '' I've broken your hands, now WRITE!!''

                      #11   Drizzy Drake 

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                        Posted 28 February 2008 - 03:09 PM

                        View PostSaturos Striker, on Feb 28 2008, 03:23 PM, said:

                        People like you need to be smacked.

                        I disagree with it to a certain extend. Sure the teacher shouldn't really hurt the child, but sometimes teachers get sued just because they nudged er palmed the back of child's head. That should be allowed, just a small forced pat should be enough.

                        I seriously doubt any of you put on your gangsta shoes on pop three bullets down that mother****er's ass for that. Seriously, most of you would just take and face it, you're already spoilt. I'm not saying that I always show respect, but children these days show way to little respect to elders these days. 8-year olds calling you (translation) "I hope you suffer cancer" are basically screaming for a punch. Sure, the parents won't like it because most of the time they're undereducated idiots to start with. It just the problem of modern society really. 10-year old girls with phone bills of 50 quid a month just because they ask all their "friends" how they're doing every hour doesn't help either. Parents need to start restricting things. Don't give your son/girl something just because some undereducated twat neighbour is doing it as well. Think for yourself, dammit.

                        Show some respect and they're will be no need of the rod in the first place.
                        Note: by respect I don't mean the gangster bling term, but just the normal respect.

                        You msut not have very good eyesight, or you are jsut retarded. There is a big difference from getting a tap on the head(like Snape gave Ron and Harry if the new HP movie), and getting hit with a cane. BIG ****nig difference. I have been "tapped" and sure, it doesn't bother me, but if a techer hit me full force with a cane, I wouldn't suck that **** up, I'd do something about it.

                        I show alot of repsect to elders, but if they think that becasue they are older, that they could hit me with a weapon, then they should think again.

                        #12   FlamingDuck 

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                          Posted 28 February 2008 - 04:26 PM

                          I hate it when kids get a teacher angry just to giggle about it. Then they get even angrier, and the kids laugh even more. ****s. They deserve getting whacked.

                          #13   Eugine 

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                            Posted 28 February 2008 - 04:33 PM

                            Caael, that is abuse. Totally different issue might I say.
                            Also, this issue don't encompass only schools, but parents/guardians as well.

                            Anyway, I didn't have enough time to elaborate this morning, so here I am.
                            Do you think spanking is good or bad? You know, hitting a child on his/her hand when they did something you told them not to, or a bit more extreme, using a belt to hit them on their buttocks or hand?

                            To anyone who do not know the origin of this saying, it is from the Bible.

                            #14   Caael 

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                              Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:25 PM

                              I was joking, but I dont see how pain could motivate somebody to work. You'd be more enticed to work if there was a promise of something good at the end, rather than if you knew you would be hurt for it. If I got caned or anything I would refuse to work.

                              #15   MaznAzn 

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                                Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:32 PM

                                I SO agree with the statement. And it's not just corpral punishement; parents really need to start acting like PARENTS and not come down to their kid's level.

                                Seriously, the other day I was waiting at the lunch line, and this kid was getting food from the lunch lady (I guess it was his friends mom, from what I could tell), and she was asking him, "Do you want some milk?" and he was like, "Whatever, Just f*cking give me the f*cking food you f*cking b!tch!". He walked away, and when I told him that he was so rude, he just told me to shut up.

                                I'm so disgusted with the level of disrespect teenagers have for adults. Not only does it give other teenagers a bad reputation, but it's just plain rude. I mean, at some point, the government and the ACLU have to stop being such pussies and start putting society in line, otherwise we'll become our own worst enemy.

                                And as for corporal punishment, I'm all for it. If a kid is continually disrespectful, its a sign that they're not getting enough punishment at home to know that what they're doing is wrong. In order for our society to not fall apart, someone has to step up and say "cut it out", and if corporal punishment is the answer, so be it.

                                There is no excuse, no reason for kids to be disrespectful, and if we don't stop it now, the problem will only get worse.

                                Edit:

                                And why do we always need a reward to do what has to be done? That only makes a kid more spoiled! It's like the kid in the grocery store, screaming that they want candy. The parent then says "if you stop it, then I'll let you play at so and so's house" Then the kid knows that if they throw a fit, they can get something out of it. And what's it going to come down to?

                                I just don't see how spoon feeding a kid rewards for doing stupid menial tasks or for not being disrespectful is going to help the problem at all. Point being, kids should be EXPECTED to behave and have respect. It's so sad that we have to put sugar on top of everything to motivate kids.

                                (Hey, now I know what to write my position paper on!)

                                #16   Drizzy Drake 

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                                  Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:36 PM

                                  Yes, but the second they make corporal punishment legal again, then people will start hitting their children even if they do the tinyest thing, and jsut say they were acting crazy.

                                  I jsut find that if parents/teachers are gonig to be allowed to hit people to keep them in line, why couldn't teenagers hit other teenagers to keep them in line, or hit each other becasue they felt what the other said was rude.

                                  You can't really get one without the other.

                                  #17   MaznAzn 

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                                    Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:47 PM

                                    Some parents already do it. It's not like taking away corporal punishment has helped child abuse any.

                                    And yes you can, because our elders have this thing called "authority" and a few more years of wisdom than we do. They are more able to look at both sides of a situation then come to a conclusion, where kids and teenagers tend to get mixed up in rumors, exaggerate and bend the truth, and beat each other up because the other kid looks funny. Adults are much less likely to do that.

                                    However, if we don't stop it, the rude and inconsiderate teenagers of today will turn into rude and inconsiderate adults with 5 year old mentalities. How fun that will be when world leaders will be killing each other because "he looked at me weird!". Now I know I'm exaggerating a bit, but honestly, what kinds of children will adults raise, if they were spoiled as a kid? It's a snowball effect, and it's only going to get worse.

                                    #18   Drizzy Drake 

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                                      Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:52 PM

                                      I still think corporal punishment is too harsh. Beating your children will NOT make them want to listen. I know a kid who's parents beat him almsot weekly, and the mroe they do it, the less he listens to them. It won't make them listen. Plus, it can casue serious emotional harm.

                                      #19   Eugine 

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                                        Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:54 PM

                                        So skidz, are you against all forms of corporal punishment?

                                        #20   Drizzy Drake 

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                                          Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:56 PM

                                          I am against ANY form of adults being able to harm children.

                                          #21   Eugine 

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                                            Posted 28 February 2008 - 06:00 PM

                                            So, are you saying you wouldn't smack your child hand (assuming you want anyway), if, say for instance he picked up something you told him not to?

                                            #22   Drizzy Drake 

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                                              Posted 28 February 2008 - 06:05 PM

                                              That does not cause harm, that cause a startle, and I don't knwo the right word, but that does not harm a child, but I mean spanking and full blown hitting a child is just dumb.

                                              There have been many nights where my friend has coem to my hosue after his parents beating him up, and actually contemplating killing thme. And not just an in the moment thing where it will subside, but liek actually sitting in my house, thinking if he should kill them. If he did end up killnig them, then he would probably go to jail. Now we have 2 dead parents and a kid in jail. Yup, hitting him did some REALLLY good.

                                              #23   Folcon 

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                                                Posted 28 February 2008 - 06:17 PM

                                                I beleave corprol punishment has some marrits, as long as its not taken to extremes. One or two open handed smacks on the ass should be sufficent. Paddles, switches, canes, etc. on the other hand are a no no. I have known a friend, who one time pissed off his dad really bad and was spanked so bad, he couldn't even sit to take a sh!t and had to eat standing up.

                                                #24   Gio 

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                                                  Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:35 PM

                                                  I believe that it is alright for a parent to punish their children through spanking. It gives kids a reason not to disobey again. It teaches them that if they get out of line and to something wrong, that they will suffer the consequences. Now as for teachers hitting children, I am to sure about it. I think it is the parents place to punish their own child and not the teachers or anybody else's responsibility.

                                                  #25   Toasty 

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                                                    Posted 29 February 2008 - 03:40 AM

                                                    "Beating" is too harsh of a word. When someone says that a child shoudl be "beaten", a drunk man whiping a kid with the metal side of his belt comes to mind. that's not what this is.

                                                    This is more like a spanking. In a lot of cases, I think our society would have a heck of a lot more common sense and sense of right and wrong if this was still allowed. However, I'd probably get slapped a lot if this was implimented, yet I've got more common sense then a lot of people I know. Most of the time, though, the trouble I've gotten in has been from misunderstandings. I get misunderstood a lot. ):

                                                    You can thank the liberals for going soft and outlawing it, and sue happy parents who're trying to get some easy money at the expense of others, but I'm still indifferent. I can easily see who this would be abused/misused, but at the same time, our society would be a lot better than it is now if this was never abolished.

                                                    View PostDipset, on Feb 28 2008, 03:56 PM, said:

                                                    I am against ANY form of adults being able to harm children.


                                                    There's a difference between beating children, and giving the kid what he deserves. Snot nosed brats who disobey just because they don't get their way or because they feel like it, should have to go outside, cut off a thin branch from a tree, and let their parent/teacher whip them in the ass with it a few times, or until the kid is ready to co-operate.

                                                    Though if the teacher whips them three times, and the kid asks them to stop, they'd better or it'd be considered abuse in my book. After three swats, ask the kid if they're ready to co-operate. If yes, they go back inside the classroom. If not, three more swats.

                                                    #26   Split Infinity 

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                                                      Posted 29 February 2008 - 03:46 AM

                                                      I think it should be allowed, but it should be stressed that it can work when the child is young and has a simple mentality, but should only be used on older kids when nothing else has worked, and only if they're genuinely being asses.

                                                      #27   Toasty 

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                                                        Posted 29 February 2008 - 04:34 AM

                                                        In the second case, they should be pistol whipped. :( j/k

                                                        But seriously. A lot of the time when you have disobediant kids, it's because their parents spoil them. If the parent isn't going to discipline the child, SOMEONE has to. This is one of the very few times that the government should have more power. But there's obviously a balance. But enough politics, that's for another topic.

                                                        Basically, it's good as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Unfortunately, it's easy for people to believe a spoiled brat who's over exaggerating things than a teacher who rightfully taught the kid a lesson and nothing more. That, and sometimes the teachers DO go out of line. But that's basically what got it banned in the first place.

                                                        #28   Split Infinity 

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                                                          Posted 29 February 2008 - 04:46 AM

                                                          View PostCaael, on Feb 29 2008, 10:25 AM, said:

                                                          I was joking, but I dont see how pain could motivate somebody to work. You'd be more enticed to work if there was a promise of something good at the end, rather than if you knew you would be hurt for it. If I got caned or anything I would refuse to work.

                                                          I doubt it, since you'd want to comply in order to avoid further punishment.

                                                          #29   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                            Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:48 AM

                                                            You really wouldn't. Like I said, my friend gets beat, and he NEVER wants to cooperate now.

                                                            It is really dumb. Nobody should deserve PAIN in ANY situation, no matter how much of a prick they are being. If parents want to do something, lock them in their room, don't hit them. Their is ALWAYS other alternatives.

                                                            #30   Saturos S. 

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                                                              Posted 29 February 2008 - 08:29 AM

                                                              View PostSaturos Striker, on Feb 28 2008, 09:23 PM, said:

                                                              I disagree with it to a certain extent. Sure the teacher shouldn't really hurt the child, but sometimes teachers get sued just because they nudged er palmed the back of child's head. That should be allowed, just a small forced pat should be enough.



                                                              View PostDipset, on Feb 28 2008, 10:09 PM, said:

                                                              You msut not have very good eyesight, or you are jsut retarded. There is a big difference from getting a tap on the head(like Snape gave Ron and Harry if the new HP movie), and getting hit with a cane. BIG ****nig difference. I have been "tapped" and sure, it doesn't bother me, but if a techer hit me full force with a cane, I wouldn't suck that **** up, I'd do something about it.

                                                              I show alot of repsect to elders, but if they think that becasue they are older, that they could hit me with a weapon, then they should think again.


                                                              It doesn't have to mean the whack with the cane. At least not what I was meaning, the "Spare the Rod" means that corporal punishments should be banned. Every kind of corporal punishment, not just the whack with the cane, but just smack on the back of the head too. I'm just taking it to a bigger perspective, and not being a retard.

                                                              #31   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                Posted 29 February 2008 - 08:51 AM

                                                                Alright. But still, their is a big difference from a smack on the back, and a punch in the face, which I GUARANTEE will be what teachers/parents do if corporal punishment was made legal.

                                                                There is just no real way to controle it, and becasue of that, it should be kept illegal.

                                                                #32   Saturos S. 

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                                                                  Posted 29 February 2008 - 09:59 AM

                                                                  Corporal punishment is not the same as child abuse.

                                                                  Child abuse should be as illegal as rape or murder. Corporal punishment is a good thing if done with common sense, of course there are undereducated trailerparkpeople who will beat the crap out of their child, but they probably would hit their child with or without the ban.

                                                                  #33   Folcon 

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                                                                    Posted 29 February 2008 - 11:29 AM

                                                                    View PostDipset, on Feb 29 2008, 07:48 AM, said:

                                                                    It is really dumb. Nobody should deserve PAIN in ANY situation, no matter how much of a prick they are being. If parents want to do something, lock them in their room, don't hit them. Their is ALWAYS other alternatives.


                                                                    As a note, sending a kid to their room don't do sh!t. It's where all their toys are. That is where makeing them stand with their nose in the corner, away from tv, radio, and other distractions, is better.

                                                                    And as was said, there is a difference between spanking a child, and beating them. I'm fine with spanking, as long as it's not taken to an extreme. like was said, three hits should do it, then make them stand in the corner.

                                                                    #34   Saturos S. 

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                                                                      Posted 29 February 2008 - 12:38 PM

                                                                      View Postescout, on Feb 29 2008, 06:29 PM, said:

                                                                      And as was said, there is a difference between spanking a child, and beating them. I'm fine with spanking, as long as it's not taken to an extreme. like was said, three hits should do it, then make them stand in the corner.



                                                                      So you like a good spanking eh? .... perv.

                                                                      [edit] Sorry, I couldn't resist.

                                                                      #35   Folcon 

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                                                                        Posted 29 February 2008 - 12:45 PM

                                                                        not from you

                                                                        #36   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                          Posted 29 February 2008 - 02:06 PM

                                                                          I don't care how light the psanks are, it still will NOT make a child want to listen. When your parents hit you, in ANY fashion, it makes them not like you.

                                                                          Plus, even with spankings there can be severe emotional trauma. I know it is jsut a cartoon, but look at Ned Flanders. He was spanked, and he ended up with emotional problems.

                                                                          #37   Split Infinity 

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                                                                            Posted 29 February 2008 - 03:01 PM

                                                                            That's a terrible example, Skidz.

                                                                            Just because you hate somebody doesn't mean they can't motivate you to carry out their will. You can't just ignore pain. Why do you think torture chambers are so successful?

                                                                            #38   Gio 

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                                                                              Posted 29 February 2008 - 03:14 PM

                                                                              View PostDipset, on Feb 29 2008, 02:06 PM, said:

                                                                              I don't care how light the psanks are, it still will NOT make a child want to listen. When your parents hit you, in ANY fashion, it makes them not like you.

                                                                              Plus, even with spankings there can be severe emotional trauma. I know it is jsut a cartoon, but look at Ned Flanders. He was spanked, and he ended up with emotional problems.


                                                                              My parents spanked me and I don't have any emotional problems. I respect them and I listen to them. Them spanking me, taught me that when you do something wrong, that you should be prepared for the consequences.


                                                                              View PostSplit Infinity, on Feb 29 2008, 03:01 PM, said:

                                                                              That's a terrible example, Skidz.

                                                                              Just because you hate somebody doesn't mean they can't motivate you to carry out their will. You can't just ignore pain. Why do you think torture chambers are so successful?


                                                                              I liked that example.

                                                                              #39   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                Posted 29 February 2008 - 04:54 PM

                                                                                It's probably just my immaturity, but every time I read spank on this page... I snigger.

                                                                                #40   Elliott 

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                                                                                  Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:21 PM

                                                                                  I think it's necessary in a lot of cases. Not to the point of abuse, but physical re-enforcement can do a lot of good.

                                                                                  My brothers and I were all given physical punishment as children, and I see that we've turned out as well-balanced, down to earth, quiet type people. Yet I then see a lot of people out there who's parents just spoiled them and gave them very little harsh discipline and they are the most obnoxious, rude, loud-mouthed people I've ever met. I think that's the reason that so many adolescents these days are insubordinate, and physical punishment should be advocated in the earlier years of children's lives to teach them that acting out in public places, rudeness and generally being public pests is not appropriate, then I believe we'd see a much more civilised youth demographic.

                                                                                  Obviously there are going to be cases where parents go too far and the children end up hating their parents, but that doesn't make corporal punishment flawed all together.

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                                                                                    Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:28 PM

                                                                                    View PostToasty, on Feb 29 2008, 05:34 AM, said:

                                                                                    In the second case, they should be pistol whipped. :( j/k

                                                                                    But seriously. A lot of the time when you have disobediant kids, it's because their parents spoil them. If the parent isn't going to discipline the child, SOMEONE has to. This is one of the very few times that the government should have more power. But there's obviously a balance. But enough politics, that's for another topic.

                                                                                    Basically, it's good as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Unfortunately, it's easy for people to believe a spoiled brat who's over exaggerating things than a teacher who rightfully taught the kid a lesson and nothing more. That, and sometimes the teachers DO go out of line. But that's basically what got it banned in the first place.


                                                                                    EXACTLY what I was thinking! Toasty, you must be my male clone :D


                                                                                    View PostElliott, on Feb 29 2008, 07:21 PM, said:

                                                                                    I think it's necessary in a lot of cases. Not to the point of abuse, but physical re-enforcement can do a lot of good.

                                                                                    My brothers and I were all given physical punishment as children, and I see that we've turned out as well-balanced, down to earth, quiet type people. Yet I then see a lot of people out there who's parents just spoiled them and gave them very little harsh discipline and they are the most obnoxious, rude, loud-mouthed people I've ever met. I think that's the reason that so many adolescents these days are insubordinate, and physical punishment should be advocated in the earlier years of children's lives to teach them that acting out in public places, rudeness and generally being public pests is not appropriate, then I believe we'd see a much more civilised youth demographic.

                                                                                    Obviously there are going to be cases where parents go too far and the children end up hating their parents, but that doesn't make corporal punishment flawed all together.



                                                                                    Wow. I agree with Agatio. For once XD

                                                                                    I mean, there's a bible verse (and I'm not trying to promote religion here!) that says "Childeren, Obey your parents." then the verse after that goes on to say, "Parents, do not provoke your children to wrath"

                                                                                    I think that goes along with what skid is saying. There IS a point where punishment becomes abuse, and it becomes a whole 'nother topic. But at the same time, parents shouldn't be so lenient that their children become demoralized.

                                                                                    It goes hand in hand, and I think the family structure is becoming more and more broken apart as time goes on. I think we've spent enough time stressing individuality and now we need to start putting the emphasis on mutual family respect.

                                                                                    #42   Quacnar 

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                                                                                      Posted 29 February 2008 - 08:53 PM

                                                                                      I think I am one of the few people that agree with Skidzorz(suprisingly). I f youre a parent and you feel the necessity to harm your child in any way, then there is something wrong with you. No matter what age your child is, there is always a better punishment than corporal.

                                                                                      3-9 year olds: No dessert, stand in corner/ time out
                                                                                      10-13 year olds: No TV, No phone, No computer, etc.
                                                                                      14-16 year olds: Grounded or any of the no's

                                                                                      Of course my personal favorite is actually talking out the problem. When I do something wrong (which I have on several occasions) me and my parents always talk about what happens. They make sure I understand what I did wrong and why I did it. This has brought us closer as a family. If my parents ever hit me, I would be very upset and we would grow apart. Also, parents are supposed to be setting an example for their child(ren), is violence something they should be showing as being okay??

                                                                                      #43   Gio 

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                                                                                        Posted 29 February 2008 - 10:08 PM

                                                                                        The parents can't just say hey you can't do that. I mean it helps a bit, but the spanking is really what works in my opinion. It also has to be at a young age to. I mean when I remember that when I was little, my parents would tell me that I was grounded from something, and I would find some way to do it anyway. I am not saying that you shouldn't ground your kids, it is a good reinforcer, but parents spanking their children is ok. I think it is more effective.

                                                                                        #44   Folcon 

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                                                                                          Posted 29 February 2008 - 10:14 PM

                                                                                          just like washing their mouth out with soap for swearing. But that don't work too often.

                                                                                          #45   Quacnar 

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                                                                                            Posted 29 February 2008 - 10:28 PM

                                                                                            Perhaps spanking will stop the problem better than other punishments, but in the long run it has many negative side effects.

                                                                                            1. Children become more violent
                                                                                            2. Children are emotionally scarred
                                                                                            3. Children hit their kids when their parents (perhaps a bit too hard)
                                                                                            4. Parents start to hurt their kids when they've done nothing.
                                                                                            5. Parents stop spanking and go to hitting.
                                                                                            6. Parents and children have a heting relationship

                                                                                            All of those things could happen, making corporal punishment bad in the long run.
                                                                                            It being more effective doesnt always make it the best choice. For example: there is a teacher you hate in school who is always mean to you. The most effective measure to take is killing her, but that probably won't work out that well in the long run.

                                                                                            #46   Folcon 

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                                                                                              Posted 29 February 2008 - 10:35 PM

                                                                                              The key word there coz, is COULD. Not will. And the most effective methid for dealing with a teacher is to talk to the department head about them. If it's the department head causing the trouble, take it to the next person up on the ladder, which is often the dean.

                                                                                              #47   Gio 

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                                                                                                Posted 29 February 2008 - 11:00 PM

                                                                                                Here is your list coz

                                                                                                Quote

                                                                                                1. Children become more violent
                                                                                                2. Children are emotionally scarred
                                                                                                3. Children hit their kids when their parents (perhaps a bit too hard)
                                                                                                4. Parents start to hurt their kids when they've done nothing.
                                                                                                5. Parents stop spanking and go to hitting.
                                                                                                6. Parents and children have a heting relationship


                                                                                                My parents punished me by spanking me. Here is how it turned out

                                                                                                1. I am not violent. I oppose violence for the most part and the only time I agree with violence is when I am threatened and have absolutely no other way to get out.
                                                                                                2. I am not emotionally scarred
                                                                                                3. I plan on spanking my kids. I plan on having them turn out the exact same way I did, hopefully better
                                                                                                4. My parents don't and never have hurt me. They have punished me.
                                                                                                5. My dad or mom have never hit me with a closed fist.
                                                                                                6. My parents and I have a great relationship and we are respectful of each other.

                                                                                                From about 4 to the age of 7 was about the span of time they would spank me, and at about 7 I learned that you reap what you sow, and I stopped disobeying.

                                                                                                #48   Quacnar 

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                                                                                                  Posted 29 February 2008 - 11:33 PM

                                                                                                  View Postescout, on Feb 29 2008, 11:35 PM, said:

                                                                                                  The key word there coz, is COULD. Not will. And the most effective methid for dealing with a teacher is to talk to the department head about them. If it's the department head causing the trouble, take it to the next person up on the ladder, which is often the dean.

                                                                                                  Your right could does not mean will it means could, but even if there is a decent sized chance of any of those things happening, is spanking really worth it?

                                                                                                  View PostGio, on Mar 1 2008, 12:00 AM, said:

                                                                                                  My parents punished me by spanking me. Here is how it turned out

                                                                                                  1. I am not violent. I oppose violence for the most part and the only time I agree with violence is when I am threatened and have absolutely no other way to get out.
                                                                                                  2. I am not emotionally scarred
                                                                                                  3. I plan on spanking my kids. I plan on having them turn out the exact same way I did, hopefully better
                                                                                                  4. My parents don't and never have hurt me. They have punished me.
                                                                                                  5. My dad or mom have never hit me with a closed fist.
                                                                                                  6. My parents and I have a great relationship and we are respectful of each other.

                                                                                                  From about 4 to the age of 7 was about the span of time they would spank me, and at about 7 I learned that you reap what you sow, and I stopped disobeying.

                                                                                                  Then you we're lucky. One example of a person who gets spanked doesn't really prove anything. With your last sentence, did you stop doing what you were doing because you knew why it was wrong or because you were getting spanked?? The chances are that at the time you didn't do it because you didn't want to get hurt.

                                                                                                  #49   Elliott 

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                                                                                                    Posted 01 March 2008 - 12:28 AM

                                                                                                    You can't talk things out or reason with a child under the age or 10 in most cases, children that age and below are relatively underdeveloped and simply stupid, all they're going to understand is a sharp smack around the head / buttocks, and it's sure to shut them up.

                                                                                                    #50   Ironsight 

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                                                                                                      Posted 01 March 2008 - 02:19 AM

                                                                                                      Coz, my parents spanked me when I was little too. So far nothing on your list has happened, and I personaly doubt they will.

                                                                                                      #51   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                        Posted 01 March 2008 - 03:41 AM

                                                                                                        View Postkillercoz, on Mar 1 2008, 03:53 AM, said:

                                                                                                        3-9 year olds: No dessert, stand in corner/ time out
                                                                                                        10-13 year olds: No TV, No phone, No computer, etc.
                                                                                                        14-16 year olds: Grounded or any of the no's

                                                                                                        Of course my personal favorite is actually talking out the problem. When I do something wrong (which I have on several occasions) me and my parents always talk about what happens.


                                                                                                        Being 16 I'd get grounded or forbidden something. That wouldn't work with me.

                                                                                                        And you've done 7 things wrong in your entire life? wtf? I do 7 things wrong per week.

                                                                                                        View Postkillercoz, on Mar 1 2008, 05:28 AM, said:

                                                                                                        Perhaps spanking will stop the problem better than other punishments, but in the long run it has many negative side effects.

                                                                                                        1. Children become more violent
                                                                                                        2. Children are emotionally scarred
                                                                                                        3. Children hit their kids when their parents (perhaps a bit too hard)
                                                                                                        4. Parents start to hurt their kids when they've done nothing.
                                                                                                        5. Parents stop spanking and go to hitting.
                                                                                                        6. Parents and children have a heting relationship


                                                                                                        Point 5 is the difference we're talking about. Spanking won't lead to hitting and is ok if it's it not hitting in the sense of child abuse. The other points might occur ONLY if it's really abuse of the child. I know someone who was really hit hard by her parents when she was little, she's a grown-up and has her own family now. Ok, she doesn't talk to her dad (who did the abusing) anymore, but she does do stuff with her mom. She doesn't abuse her kids at all, she's a great mother for her family, she isn't violent and she isn't emotionally scarred (she's just as in touch with her emotions as any of us.)

                                                                                                        Point 4 and 5 just come down to common sense on the parent's side though.

                                                                                                        #52   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                          Posted 01 March 2008 - 03:50 AM

                                                                                                          You put forward some valid points Coz, but what you need to understand is that things rarely turn out that way, and it's usually when the parents take things too far. Like Caael said, kids around 10 and below aren't very developed in the reasonability department, and if spanking makes them understand that what they did was wrong, don't you think THAT is better in the long run?

                                                                                                          #53   Gio 

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                                                                                                            Posted 01 March 2008 - 09:22 AM

                                                                                                            View Postkillercoz, on Feb 29 2008, 11:33 PM, said:

                                                                                                            Your right could does not mean will it means could, but even if there is a decent sized chance of any of those things happening, is spanking really worth it?
                                                                                                            Then you we're lucky. One example of a person who gets spanked doesn't really prove anything. With your last sentence, did you stop doing what you were doing because you knew why it was wrong or because you were getting spanked?? The chances are that at the time you didn't do it because you didn't want to get hurt.

                                                                                                            No basically it taught me that there would be good or bad consequences for fore every decision I made. I mean if getting hurt is a consequence then so be it, but I don't see a 7 year old kid sitting down and talking it out with their parents, and if you say that you did when you were 7, then you were a very weird 7 year old.

                                                                                                            #54   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                              Posted 01 March 2008 - 03:29 PM

                                                                                                              I'd feel uncomfortable if my parents sat down and talked to me every time I did something wrong. I'd rather take a strapping, at least then I can reflect on it by myself.

                                                                                                              #55   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                Posted 01 March 2008 - 04:30 PM

                                                                                                                In fact I hate it when older people do that with you. Each time I have to go see the headmaster or whatever he justs sits there, looks at you and you have a generic conversations.

                                                                                                                "Why are you here?"
                                                                                                                "My art teacher Mr. @ASDADS sent me"
                                                                                                                "Why?"
                                                                                                                "I was kind of bored and decided to make giant paper aeroplane out of my neighbour's A1 drawing"
                                                                                                                "... that's not very mature now, is it?"
                                                                                                                "... no"
                                                                                                                "So, next time, just be a little more mature and think twice before doing something like that"
                                                                                                                "... whatever."
                                                                                                                "What was that?"
                                                                                                                "Yes, I'll give my actions a bit more thought next time, sir."
                                                                                                                "Okay, you can go now"

                                                                                                                And I'll be back next week, and have the same conversation. Different reason though. But, it doesn't work on teens, they don't give a shi- most of the time.

                                                                                                                #56   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                  Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:04 PM

                                                                                                                  But neither will hitting a teen? If an adult tried to spank their teen, you think the teen is just going to sit there?

                                                                                                                  #57   Folcon 

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                                                                                                                    Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:01 PM

                                                                                                                    I went to the dean's office for making and throwing a paper airplane in class. He told me, "Next time, don't get caught." I'm serious too.

                                                                                                                    #58   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                      Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:11 PM

                                                                                                                      I have an awsome Egnlisgh teacher, and something similar happened. I went to calss high, and at the end of the class he told me to stay, and I though I was busted, but he just said to use visene next time so that the principal doesn't see my red eyes.

                                                                                                                      #59   Gio 

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                                                                                                                        Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:18 PM

                                                                                                                        View Postescout, on Mar 1 2008, 06:01 PM, said:

                                                                                                                        I went to the dean's office for making and throwing a paper airplane in class. He told me, "Next time, don't get caught." I'm serious too.

                                                                                                                        I had a similar situation
                                                                                                                        I got in trouble and went to the office once for squashing and ice cream sandwich in someones hair. He asked me why I did it, and I told him I did it because I thought it would be funny. He looked at me for about 5 seconds then started laughing, and told me that he thought it was funny to. lol

                                                                                                                        #60   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                          Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:20 PM

                                                                                                                          SOME teachers and principals can actually remeber what it was like to be a teenager, so they are leenient.

                                                                                                                          #61   Gio 

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                                                                                                                            Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:28 PM

                                                                                                                            Your probably right. I just thought my situation was extremely funny, because everybody in our school was afraid of the principal.

                                                                                                                            #62   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                              Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:40 PM

                                                                                                                              Notice the emphesized "some". It isn't that common of a thing, especially not in the case I stated.

                                                                                                                              #63   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                                                Posted 01 March 2008 - 10:04 PM

                                                                                                                                View PostDipset, on Mar 2 2008, 10:04 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                But neither will hitting a teen? If an adult tried to spank their teen, you think the teen is just going to sit there?

                                                                                                                                I would. If I even considered taking a swing at my parents they'd ground me for life.

                                                                                                                                #64   Folcon 

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                                                                                                                                  Posted 02 March 2008 - 12:29 AM

                                                                                                                                  Oh I know if I took a swing at my dad, he'd swing right back. But he knows it the same for me, and we're a relative match in strength now, but I still out wiegh him by about 60 or so pounds, maybe more. He's a skinny ass *******.

                                                                                                                                  #65   kate 

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                                                                                                                                    Posted 02 March 2008 - 12:35 AM

                                                                                                                                    I really think the only reason you would need to spank your kid is if you haven't been parenting them properly. If you only spank your kids when they've done something really bad, then obviously you were too lax on them before. If you teach them from the start that they can't get away with things, it will never get to the point where no other punishment will do but a spank. And if you're spanking them before that point, then that is abuse.

                                                                                                                                    I'd like to point out spanking kids has been made illegal here in alberta, so obviously there's a reason. And no I don't mean hitting or abuse, I mean any kind of physical punishment.

                                                                                                                                    #66   Elliott 

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                                                                                                                                      Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:40 AM

                                                                                                                                      Quote

                                                                                                                                      I really think the only reason you would need to spank your kid is if you haven't been parenting them properly.

                                                                                                                                      Children under the age of 10 aren't going to understand "being spoken to". A sharp slap around the head / arse is much more effective than sitting a 6 year old down and trying to reason with them.

                                                                                                                                      Quote

                                                                                                                                      If you teach them from the start that they can't get away with things, it will never get to the point where no other punishment will do but a spank. And if you're spanking them before that point, then that is abuse.

                                                                                                                                      The fact of the matter is, a smack is the best way to "teach them from the start that they can't get away with things". It's not abuse, it's physical re-enforcement. It's only abuse if it's unwarranted, with a closed fist, or excessive.

                                                                                                                                      #67   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                        Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:20 AM

                                                                                                                                        Couldn't have said it better ^

                                                                                                                                        #68   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                          Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:25 AM

                                                                                                                                          Coz, that list was bullcrap. You're not going to make a very good parent should you choose to be. Like Elliott said, you cant expect to talk sense into a 6 year old. Well you could try, but they'd ignore you and do some bad crap again.

                                                                                                                                          View Postescout, on Mar 2 2008, 12:01 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                          I went to the dean's office for making and throwing a paper airplane in class. He told me, "Next time, don't get caught." I'm serious too.


                                                                                                                                          I'm seriously starting to think you have the mental age of an 11 year old.

                                                                                                                                          Split said:

                                                                                                                                          Like Caael said


                                                                                                                                          That was Elliott

                                                                                                                                          #69   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                            Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:25 AM

                                                                                                                                            @ Kate-It's illegal in all of Canada, not jsut Alberta.

                                                                                                                                            #70   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                              Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:28 AM

                                                                                                                                              That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
                                                                                                                                              Parents are better at raising kids than the government is.

                                                                                                                                              #71   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                View Postkate, on Mar 2 2008, 07:35 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                I'd like to point out spanking kids has been made illegal here in alberta, so obviously there's a reason. And no I don't mean hitting or abuse, I mean any kind of physical punishment.


                                                                                                                                                ... I'm going to be nice in saying this, but think for yourself plox.

                                                                                                                                                The government did it, so obviously it has to be good, with reason, because otherwise they wouldn't ban it. I know your country lies next to America, but that doesn't mean you have to be as ignorant as them. Whatever your government's reasons are, other governments don't agree/aknowledge them. Since it's perfectly ok to spank your child over here.

                                                                                                                                                #72   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                  Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                  Minus the america being ignorant part, I pretty much agree with SS.

                                                                                                                                                  #73   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                    Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                    Yeah, I felt like being mean to someone, and I couldn't seem to get a normal post with putting in the annual baby seal spanking by Canada, so I put that one in.

                                                                                                                                                    Thought of editing it afterward... but I saw you were writing something thus your post would probably not make sense anymore thus I did not do it.

                                                                                                                                                    #74   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                      Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Baby seal spanking....WTF?

                                                                                                                                                      #75   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                        Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                        That really would have thrown me for a loop if you had edited. would've taken me a while to figure out what happened. lol

                                                                                                                                                        #76   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                          Posted 02 March 2008 - 11:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                          I guess it depends on the kid. I have never been spanked and I'm an ib child who's never gotten into any serious trouble, even when I was little.

                                                                                                                                                          My parents just didn't put up with ****, if I made a scene in the grocery store, they never gave in, because it meant that next time we were there I wouldn't even bother. They didn't hit me either and I still got the point.

                                                                                                                                                          Maybe my sis and I are just smarter than other kids :rolleyes: jkjk

                                                                                                                                                          Really, on the whole canada banning it thing, I'm not saying that because our country is epic and all of yours fails, I'm saying it because this is the same government that legalized abortion and gay marriage and I couldn't agree more with them on those issues, so when they illegalize something like this, it makes me think they're not just being "stupid".

                                                                                                                                                          Still I agree some kids can become incredibly frustrating and a stern talking to won't get through to them, but then find other methods, or just ignore them. Granted ignoring them only really works for tantrums and if they do something like draw on the wall then that doesn't apply, but the majority of the time they do something for attention or because they think they can get their way. I dunno, to me just spanking them seems like a lazy approach to parenting, like you're not willing to try other options. Frankly if my parents did spank me, then it would create tension between us, but I can't guarantee that since gio obviously has a nice relationship with his parents.

                                                                                                                                                          #77   Quacnar 

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                                                                                                                                                            Posted 02 March 2008 - 11:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                            View PostElliott, on Mar 1 2008, 01:28 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                            You can't talk things out or reason with a child under the age or 10 in most cases, children that age and below are relatively underdeveloped and simply stupid, all they're going to understand is a sharp smack around the head / buttocks, and it's sure to shut them up.

                                                                                                                                                            You're right in that talking to a young kid won't usually solve the problem. Although I feel there are methods other than spanking that are effective.


                                                                                                                                                            View PostSplit Infinity, on Mar 1 2008, 04:50 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                            You put forward some valid points Coz, but what you need to understand is that things rarely turn out that way, and it's usually when the parents take things too far. Like Caael said, kids around 10 and below aren't very developed in the reasonability department, and if spanking makes them understand that what they did was wrong, don't you think THAT is better in the long run?

                                                                                                                                                            The thing is that I don't feel that pain is making them understand what they did wrong. You need to say to the kid "Because you did _____ when I told you not to, you are getting a time out." Why would that be a worse way of handling the situation?


                                                                                                                                                            View PostElliott, on Mar 2 2008, 03:40 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                            Children under the age of 10 aren't going to understand "being spoken to". A sharp slap around the head / arse is much more effective than sitting a 6 year old down and trying to reason with them.


                                                                                                                                                            The fact of the matter is, a smack is the best way to "teach them from the start that they can't get away with things". It's not abuse, it's physical re-enforcement. It's only abuse if it's unwarranted, with a closed fist, or excessive.

                                                                                                                                                            No they are probably not going to understand when an elder tells them something is wrong. I just feel that there are other reparcautions(spelled wrong) that can be made that will leave the child happier.

                                                                                                                                                            View PostCaael, on Mar 2 2008, 10:25 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                            Coz, that list was bullcrap. You're not going to make a very good parent should you choose to be.

                                                                                                                                                            So what you're saying is that you aren't even going to take my points into consideration and that someone who doesn't believe in corporal punishment is a bad parent?

                                                                                                                                                            #78   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                              Posted 02 March 2008 - 12:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                              View Postkillercoz, on Mar 2 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                              You're right in that talking to a young kid won't usually solve the problem. Although I feel there are methods other than spanking that are effective.

                                                                                                                                                              Ok well since you just put down your only idea so far. What are the other methods that you find more effective?

                                                                                                                                                              #79   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                Posted 02 March 2008 - 12:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                @ Kate-You are correct. We legalized gay marriages, abortions, and pot(it's gonig to happen, so that's why I'm saying it), and all were VERY good choices, and making corporal punishment illegal seems to be working.

                                                                                                                                                                Just like Kate, if my parents spanked me, it would NOT make me want to listen.

                                                                                                                                                                #80   Someone Else 

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                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  Let me ask something, how many times has someone you know ticked you off and you punched/slapped/etc. him/her?

                                                                                                                                                                  #81   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    View PostDipset, on Mar 2 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                    Baby seal spanking....WTF?


                                                                                                                                                                    The baby seal hunt legalised by canada that kills thousands if not millions of baby seals each year by batting them to death. Cruel no?

                                                                                                                                                                    View Postkate, on Mar 2 2008, 06:26 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                    I guess it depends on the kid. I have never been spanked and I'm an ib child who's never gotten into any serious trouble, even when I was little.

                                                                                                                                                                    My parents just didn't put up with ****, if I made a scene in the grocery store, they never gave in, because it meant that next time we were there I wouldn't even bother. They didn't hit me either and I still got the point.

                                                                                                                                                                    Really, on the whole canada banning it thing, I'm not saying that because our country is epic and all of yours fails, I'm saying it because this is the same government that legalized abortion and gay marriage and I couldn't agree more with them on those issues, so when they illegalize something like this, it makes me think they're not just being "stupid".

                                                                                                                                                                    Still I agree some kids can become incredibly frustrating and a stern talking to won't get through to them, but then find other methods, or just ignore them. Granted ignoring them only really works for tantrums and if they do something like draw on the wall then that doesn't apply, but the majority of the time they do something for attention or because they think they can get their way. I dunno, to me just spanking them seems like a lazy approach to parenting, like you're not willing to try other options. Frankly if my parents did spank me, then it would create tension between us, but I can't guarantee that since gio obviously has a nice relationship with his parents.


                                                                                                                                                                    I'd just like to say corporal punishment being illegal is just stupid to start with. There's no way the government can check if it was a punishing smack or just an accidental friendly smack. Should we legalise because of this, well no. But it's radical do actually illegalise the whole thing.

                                                                                                                                                                    Sure there are other ways to punish a child for acting out of line, but why if corporal punishment is an effective and unharmful way of doing it. I think that corporal punishment does NOT traumatise or effect relationships negatively IF done with common sense. Common sense is a lot to ask these days but since Canada (Holland too btw) has legalised the use of soft drugs there should be no issue on corporal punishments. Both need to be handled with common sense.

                                                                                                                                                                    View Postkillercoz, on Mar 2 2008, 06:46 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                    So what you're saying is that you aren't even going to take my points into consideration and that someone who doesn't believe in corporal punishment is a bad parent?


                                                                                                                                                                    Wha- wait, this last part doesn't make sense. You're saying that someone who doesn't believe in corporal punishment is a bad parent? Since you're doubting the consideration of that.

                                                                                                                                                                    #82   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      Never her, but ya. I have punched people for ticknig me off/callnig me ****/being retarded, but hardly does it help the situation. Sure, it is done at the moment, but then maybe th next day, he coems back with hsi friends, and ****s me up. Then I get my friends, and it could jsut keep gonig in circles. Not that I still won't get in fights, but it only temporarily solves the problem, which is why people shouldn't spank their kids, because it will only temporaily solve the problem at hand. No, a 7 year old isn't gonig to coem with their friends and beat their parents up, but they might when they grow up.

                                                                                                                                                                      EIDT-Saying that because drugs are legalized, that corporal punishment should be aswell, is a dumb aregument. Still no parent knows how the kid will react to a spanking. Even ONE spanknig could lead to trauma, and there shouldn't be a risk. And if you are gonig to say "well it could happen with drugs", don't. Drugs are the CHILD'S chocie, so if they have trauma from smokngi pot(which is VERY unlikely), it is THIER fault, not thier parents, wherein if they get emotional trauma fro mbeing spanked, it it the parent's fault.

                                                                                                                                                                      #83   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        View PostDipset, on Mar 2 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                        Never her, but ya. I have punched people for ticknig me off/callnig me ****/being retarded, but hardly does it help the situation. Sure, it is done at the moment, but then maybe th next day, he coems back with hsi friends, and ****s me up. Then I get my friends, and it could jsut keep gonig in circles. Not that I still won't get in fights, but it only temporarily solves the problem, which is why people shouldn't spank their kids, because it will only temporaily solve the problem at hand. No, a 7 year old isn't gonig to coem with their friends and beat their parents up, but they might when they grow up.



                                                                                                                                                                        Violent youth much?

                                                                                                                                                                        Snowball effect much?

                                                                                                                                                                        Overreacting much?

                                                                                                                                                                        No common sense and relativation of situation much?

                                                                                                                                                                        #84   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          Violent youth-sure, I don't deny it, but I still do good in school and with relationships, so it doesn't bother me.

                                                                                                                                                                          Snowball effect-it WILL happen though. You may not know what it's like, but alot of times, if somebdoy beats somebdoy else up, they will go get their friends and go after the guy

                                                                                                                                                                          Overeacting-Not in the least

                                                                                                                                                                          No common sense-I have perfectly good common sense. That COULD happen. The kid could get emotional trauam from ONE spanking. Yo uare jsut living in denail, but it can happen.


                                                                                                                                                                          I have said this before, my friend when he was a child was spanked, which did NO good, and made him dislike hsi parents. Then, the spanknig didn't work, so they began to hit him, and many of times has he actually contemplated killing them. That right there is proof that spanknig can lead to violence of all sorts. If a kid still doesn't respond to spanking, are you saying true hitting?

                                                                                                                                                                          Some of the peopel here may have been spanked, and turn out great, but it doesn't allways work that way, and sicne there are alot of cases like my friend, it should stay illegal.

                                                                                                                                                                          #85   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            I'm still waiting for Coz to provide these alternatives he keeps talking about.

                                                                                                                                                                            #86   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              I never said I knew alternatives, but read the edit of my last psot, which is why I think corporal punishment should be illegal.

                                                                                                                                                                              #87   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                View PostDipset, on Mar 2 2008, 08:48 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                Violent youth-sure, I don't deny it, but I still do good in school and with relationships, so it doesn't bother me.

                                                                                                                                                                                Snowball effect-it WILL happen though. You may not know what it's like, but alot of times, if somebdoy beats somebdoy else up, they will go get their friends and go after the guy

                                                                                                                                                                                Overeacting-Not in the least

                                                                                                                                                                                No common sense-I have perfectly good common sense. That COULD happen. The kid could get emotional trauam from ONE spanking. Yo uare jsut living in denail, but it can happen.


                                                                                                                                                                                I have said this before, my friend when he was a child was spanked, which did NO good, and made him dislike hsi parents. Then, the spanknig didn't work, so they began to hit him, and many of times has he actually contemplated killing them. That right there is proof that spanknig can lead to violence of all sorts. If a kid still doesn't respond to spanking, are you saying true hitting?

                                                                                                                                                                                Some of the peopel here may have been spanked, and turn out great, but it doesn't allways work that way, and sicne there are alot of cases like my friend, it should stay illegal.


                                                                                                                                                                                Did he get spanked or down-right abused?
                                                                                                                                                                                There's a major difference between the two.

                                                                                                                                                                                #88   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  he was talking to coz, not you skippy.

                                                                                                                                                                                  oh and i just looked up that seal thing, honestly i had no idea that was legal, it makes me very happy i'm leaving the country. However, at least from my research, that is decided and regulated by a different department of the government than corporal punishment, so I don't think the two are all that connected. And besides, what do you want them to say? "beat your kids like you beat your seals"? not a very strong arguement

                                                                                                                                                                                  I would like to know what evidence you have to back up your claims that spanking a child doesn't do any trauma, as I find that quite ludicrous.

                                                                                                                                                                                  By the way no, I have never punched someone out of anger, or kicked or inflicted physical harm in any way. See I was raised with morals, shown through my parents respect of my physical self, and so I treat others with the same respect, and the idea that conflicts can be solved through reason, or at least other methods.

                                                                                                                                                                                  "hitting someone with common sense" seems like an oxymoron to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                  #89   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    When he was younger he was spanked, and that did NOT make him listen, which is what you guys are saying it will do. Then when he got older, he was abused. SPanknig him didn't work, AND made him grow apart from his family. There's 2 things wrong there, as apposed to talknig to him or ignoring him, which will, in time, work.

                                                                                                                                                                                    EDIT-Kate, wanna explain this seal thing, casue I can't research it.

                                                                                                                                                                                    #90   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      basically hunting seals is legal just like hunting deer or fishing. However there are tons of regulations about how they can be killed and what age they must be, so this whole "baby clubbing" thing is a bit of a stretch.

                                                                                                                                                                                      EDIT: the reason I'm against it is because I'm against all hunting, but they are being killed so they can be exported and used for different things, it's not just trophy hunting.

                                                                                                                                                                                      #91   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Allright.

                                                                                                                                                                                        But back ontopic, my friend is a GREAT example of why corporal punishment shouldn't be legal. Even if it only happened to 1 out of 100, that should be enough of a reason to keep it illegal.

                                                                                                                                                                                        #92   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          this isn't even about whether it should be legal, this is about whether it should be done at all...which is actually somewhat different from being legal

                                                                                                                                                                                          <.< ss is posting something epic apparently

                                                                                                                                                                                          #93   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Fine, my friend is an example of why it shouldn't be doen at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                            #94   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              View Postkate, on Mar 2 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                              oh and i just looked up that seal thing, honestly i had no idea that was legal, it makes me very happy i'm leaving the country. However, at least from my research, that is decided and regulated by a different department of the government than corporal punishment, so I don't think the two are all that connected. And besides, what do you want them to say? "beat your kids like you beat your seals"? not a very strong arguement

                                                                                                                                                                                              I would like to know what evidence you have to back up your claims that spanking a child doesn't do any trauma, as I find that quite ludicrous.

                                                                                                                                                                                              By the way no, I have never punched someone out of anger, or kicked or inflicted physical harm in any way. See I was raised with morals, shown through my parents respect of my physical self, and so I treat others with the same respect, and the idea that conflicts can be solved through reason, or at least other methods.

                                                                                                                                                                                              "hitting someone with common sense" seems like an oxymoron to me.


                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm not replying in order, thus saying the say thing twice but meh. The seal issue wasn't supposed to be an arguement on my part but meh.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Gio was an example. I'm an example. Just a small smack is just noting you did something wrong. It's not like your beating someone up. It's just a way of learning. Trial and error stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hitting someone isn't per se a bad thing. You can go on about alternatives all you want, sure they're there, but there's no need to resort to them if the previous one doesn't have flaws. People being traumatised by spanking is a unique case for me, as not being traumatised for you. I just can't help thinking that you think corporal punishment is actually is really hurting the kid, but it's just reinforcing the "no" really.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hitting someone with common sense being an oxymoron is a bias. You can use corporal punishment as reinforcing the "no" with common sense. If you push it too far into traumatising and bad relationships, you lack common sense.

                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostDipset, on Mar 2 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                              When he was younger he was spanked, and that did NOT make him listen, which is what you guys are saying it will do. Then when he got older, he was abused. SPanknig him didn't work, AND made him grow apart from his family. There's 2 things wrong there, as apposed to talknig to him or ignoring him, which will, in time, work.

                                                                                                                                                                                              EDIT-Kate, wanna explain this seal thing, casue I can't research it.


                                                                                                                                                                                              Canada allows hunters to poach baby seals for their fur and fat. They do this by clubbing them to death, so the fur stays nice and intact. A bullet would ruin the poor seals fur.

                                                                                                                                                                                              And he didn't listen to the spanking, do you think he would have listened if his parents had talked to him?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Spanking is like the basic trial and error test. You do this = bad, negative experience. It'll be remembered and later on, it'll choose an alternative. It's the basic labrat test.

                                                                                                                                                                                              #95   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, he would have listened to the talking. He listens to his teachers, and when he does something wrong, he actually attempts to not do it again, but when his parents tell him not to do anything, he doesn't listen, becasue they hit him, and that just made him more defient. Trust me, no matter what angle you give me, it isn't gonig to change. Spanking and thne hitting him has runied his relationship with hsi parents, plus now he doesn't listen to a word they say.

                                                                                                                                                                                                #96   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I guess it depends on the person, and the parents themselves. Just for example, I got spanked as a kid, but I eventually got the idea, and they stopped doing it. My parents still punish me, but they don't hit me any more because they know I'm smart enough to acknowledge my wrongdoing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I personally think they're two of the best parents in the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  #97   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, it may work for you, and other people on this forum, but even if a few people get violent/have emotional trauma over it, it should not be done. It's as simple as that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    #98   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      No, it's not that simple. :rolleyes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Everybody has the ability to choose. If the parents end up spanking their child to hell, that's not the governments fault.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      #99   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        oook back up, are you honestly trying to tell me that spanking doesn't involve any pain? if it does, then obviously there's a problem because inflicting pain on your kids is wrong, especially since you admit there are other ways, and if there isn't then what do you define spanking as?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        plus you're saying "why try other methods when spanking works?" you're sounding like spanking is the first thing a parent should do. That makes no sense, I thought we at least agreed we were only arguing about extreme cases of acting out by the child. Yeah spanking works, that doesn't make it right. Plus the saying is "spare the rod, spoil the child" which is quite literal in that many parents use things such as belts or rods or canes or branches. Tell me that doesn't cause pain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        #100   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes, but it is the governments responsibility to make sure that if the act of corporal punishment could lead to a violent child, which could lead to killings, to make it illegal. It should NOT be done. It is not the kids fault that they are not old enough to fight the spanking, so the government has the responsibility to do so. It IS the governments fault if they make spanknig corporal punishment legal, and some kid who got emotional trauma because of it pulls of another Columbine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          #101   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            View Postkate, on Mar 2 2008, 09:35 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                            oook back up, are you honestly trying to tell me that spanking doesn't involve any pain? if it does, then obviously there's a problem because inflicting pain on your kids is wrong, especially since you admit there are other ways, and if there isn't then what do you define spanking as?plus you're saying "why try other methods when spanking works?" you're sounding like spanking is the first thing a parent should do. That makes no sense, I thought we at least agreed we were only arguing about extreme cases of acting out by the child. Yeah spanking works, that doesn't make it right. Plus the saying is "spare the rod, spoil the child" which is quite literal in that many parents use things such as belts or rods or canes or branches. Tell me that doesn't cause pain.


                                                                                                                                                                                                            3rd page already took things into a bigger perspective. Pain is wrong, that's what your body tells your brain, that's how they learn. I'm not saying that spanking should be the first choice, I'm saying that it's a choice. Illegalising it takes away the choice (freedom of choice arguement plox?) and per definition makes that bad. I'm saying it's an alternative that works.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostDipset, on Mar 2 2008, 09:39 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, but it is the governments responsibility to make sure that if the act of corporal punishment could lead to a violent child, which could lead to killings, to make it illegal. It should NOT be done. It is not the kids fault that they are not old enough to fight the spanking, so the government has the responsibility to do so. It IS the governments fault if they make spanknig corporal punishment legal, and some kid who got emotional trauma because of it pulls of another Columbine.


                                                                                                                                                                                                            Spanking leads to high school shootouts? Go join toasty with the Saddam building a super cannon ideas plox.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            #102   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well that basically is saying that murder should be legal, because it is a choice, and making it ilegal is taking away is losing freedom of choice. And don't say it is diferent, because it isn't. It is pain being inflicted to somebody.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Besides, sicne spanking causes pain, is that not assault?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Answer both of those please.


                                                                                                                                                                                                              EDIT-IT CAN. Emotional problems from being spanked could lead to ANYTHING. Like I said, my friend has actualy contemplated killing his parents, and some other kid could have had WORSE emotional problems and not jsut stop at his parents.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              #103   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                This is all jumping to conclusions. But to answer your questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I will say it's different. I'm not trying to legalise murder, I'm trying to legalise a punishment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yeah, getting tackled on a football pitch is assault as well, right? No.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Edit - Your friend seriously thought of killing his parents? Send him to a shrink plox.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                #104   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm not talking about making it illegal, I'm talking about whether it should be done. You're saying by associating pain with an action you're encouraging the child not to do something again? That actually makes alot of sense, I hear they have something like that for other cases too. Oh yeah, electroshock therapy. Goodness knows that never goes bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  First of all, to cause a internal primal instinct to not do something again because of the pain associated with it, the pain would have to be intense and frequent. Conditioning only works in extreme situations and must be done a certain way. Sooo somehow I don't think it's going to work on kids, especially since most parents send them mixed signals anyways. If they throw a tantrum you'll give them what they want, and then when they do something worse you spank them. Confusing much? Nip it in the bud from the start by not giving in and they'll never do anything that deserves a spanking. All these crying kids you see in public, you think that's just because they're the type of kid that cries? No it's because parents give them what they want when they complain, and kids will push that boundary until all of a sudden they get smacked for it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Skippy is actually right about that assault thing. No one has the right to inflict physical pain on you, and you admitted spanking is pain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  EDIT: you consent to physical pain when you joined the football team, dur

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I was gonig to say that but Kate beat me to it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When you join a football team, you KNOW you may get hurt. IF you walk down the street, adn some guy stabs you, you didn't want that, nor did you agree for it to happen, and therefore the person should be punished, and when you get spanked, you didn't ask for it, and therefore the person who did it should be punished.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No, my friend should NOT go to a shrink. It is his parents fault for making him that way, adn they should go to jail for spanking/hitting him.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If even 1 out of 1'000'000 gets violent becasue of corporal punishment, it should not happen, because the violence that the person causes could have been prevented, by NOT spanknig the child.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #106   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View Postkate, on Mar 2 2008, 09:54 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not talking about making it illegal, I'm talking about whether it should be done. You're saying by associating pain with an action you're encouraging the child not to do something again? That actually makes alot of sense, I hear they have something like that for other cases too. Oh yeah, electroshock therapy. Goodness knows that never goes bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      First of all, to cause a internal primal instinct to not do something again because of the pain associated with it, the pain would have to be intense and frequent. Conditioning only works in extreme situations and must be done a certain way. Sooo somehow I don't think it's going to work on kids, especially since most parents send them mixed signals anyways. If they throw a tantrum you'll give them what they want, and then when they do something worse you spank them. Confusing much? Nip it in the bud from the start by not giving in and they'll never do anything that deserves a spanking. All these crying kids you see in public, you think that's just because they're the type of kid that cries? No it's because parents give them what they want when they complain, and kids will push that boundary until all of a sudden they get smacked for it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Skippy is actually right about that assault thing. No one has the right to inflict physical pain on you, and you admitted spanking is pain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      EDIT: you consent to physical pain when you joined the football team, dur


                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Saying "no" harshly to a child is conditioning as well. Seriously, I'm getting sick of all this jumping to conclusions crap. Can't you see that this kind of pain isn't like a punch in the face or being run over by a car? It's just sort of a knee bang against the door thing, you rub over it a bit, and walk on. Sure you can be moral about it and say you're not allowed to cause pain to anyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And seriously, wtf? Spoilt kids are the ones that get smacked?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostDipset, on Mar 2 2008, 09:58 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was gonig to say that but Kate beat me to it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When you join a football team, you KNOW you may get hurt. IF you walk down the street, adn some guy stabs you, you didn't want that, nor did you agree for it to happen, and therefore the person should be punished, and when you get spanked, you didn't ask for it, and therefore the person who did it should be punished.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      No, my friend should NOT go to a shrink. It is his parents fault for making him that way, adn they should go to jail for spanking/hitting him.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If even 1 out of 1'000'000 gets violent becasue of corporal punishment, it should not happen, because the violence that the person causes could have been prevented, by NOT spanknig the child.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyone thinking about murdering someone should be sent to a shrink. Even if it's caused by parents or anything else. You can be moral about it, I'll handle it via law, as you've been doing it all this time. Person X has plans to murder someone, zing therapy/jail. The ones were going to be murdered have some hand in it, zing fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Stabbing someone in the street has no reason compared to the educating purpose of the punishment. It's all in the educating part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #107   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ok, the stabbing was to "educate" the person to not screw his gf. It doens't matter if the spanking is not that bad, it is still an assualt against somebody. You CAN charge somebdoy for even giving you a little punch in the arm, but it isn't done, but you CAN, which is the same as spanking.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #108   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View Postkillercoz, on Mar 2 2008, 05:46 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So what you're saying is that you aren't even going to take my points into consideration and that someone who doesn't believe in corporal punishment is a bad parent?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There's no reason for me to explain. I just disagree entirely with your list.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #109   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know saying no is conditioning too, I didn't say conditioning was wrong, just the method. And no I'm not saying spoilt kids get spanked, I'm saying that if you agree that spanking should only be used in extreme situations, then there's no reason why it should ever come to extremes unless the parents failed somewhere else along the line. In which case they should be spanking themselves, not the kid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            By the way, using that logic means that if someone screws up at work the boss should spank them. But they don't because there are other punishments or ways to reason with them. Give your kid some credit, reasoning can work or other punishments. If not then you're just reinforcing the idea that violence solves things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It's just never really rightfully necessary.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #110   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *Gives a cookie to Kate*. I don't see how people can't see how mine and Kate's reasonings are so right. Don't they teach us in school that violence is never the answer?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You have to see that violene(no matter how little it is) towards a child can have consequences down the line.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #111   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Skidz said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Fine, my friend is an example of why it shouldn't be doen at all


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Your friend was traumatized because he was abused, not spanked. It's also kinda his fault for ignoring the spankings. I guess it depends on the person. Some people are just naturally defiant like your friend but some realise when enough is enough. I'm not saying your friend deserved it, but he had it coming. If he'd stopped when he was spanked, he would have avoided trauma completely.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #112   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No. Every kiid goes through a defiant stag,e and if they had dealt with him through reasoning, then he wouldn't have gotten emotional trauma. Notice how I said he listens when the principal/teachers talk to him, even when he was a kid, and he tries to not the wrong thing again, but with his parents, who resorted to physical reinforcement, he jsut doesn't listen. He didn't have it comnig. It is THIER fault he turned out that way because they used pyshical punishment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #113   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ouch caael, kinda digging a hole for yourself there. If some kids are naturally defiant and "should have known" to respond to spankings, then that combats the arguement that other methods aren't effective, because obviously it's just the kid and they "should have known" to react to the other punishments. The majority who realize enough is enough are smart enough to respond to reason, since they obviously have the reasoning capability, and thus spanking is not necessary.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #114   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well yeah, corporal punishment should be used as a last resort.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #115   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No, it should not be used at all. If a kid is soooo defiant that you feel the need to HURT them, and that is what it is, no matter how little it hurts, it is still hurting, then send him to a child psyhciatrist. There are always better ways than hurting your child.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #116   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *gives my cookie to skippy* couldn't have said it better myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          as I said before, if it should only be used as a last resort, then you screwed up somewhere else to let it get this bad. If really you tried your damnedest and the kid just keeps getting worse, then indeed you need outside help, it's not like all of a sudden they'll stop from a spank. And if it keeps getting worse, where do you go after spanking? that's how abuse starts. It's a vicious circle (dane cook ftw)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #117   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *Gives another cookie to Kate*. Everytiem you make an awsome point, I'm gonna give you one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you feel the need to spank your child, then maybe he needs help that you can not give. Most people who spank, spank from the start, and therefore should not give the aregument that it was a last resort. Like Kate said, if they are so out of controle that you have to spank them, they wont jsut stop.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 03 March 2008 - 02:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View Postkate, on Mar 3 2008, 06:59 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I would like to know what evidence you have to back up your claims that spanking a child doesn't do any trauma, as I find that quite ludicrous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              By the way no, I have never punched someone out of anger, or kicked or inflicted physical harm in any way. See I was raised with morals, shown through my parents respect of my physical self, and so I treat others with the same respect, and the idea that conflicts can be solved through reason, or at least other methods.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I was spanked as a child, so were my brothers, I don't see any evidence of trauma in any of us.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've only every punched someone maybe 2 or 3 times out of anger, and that's because it was provoked. I see a lot of other people getting in fist fights who probably weren't spanked as child. You're using absolute and flawed logic here, saying that hitting a child will cause them trauma, or that spanking a child will make them violent. Pull your head out of your arse.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostDipset, on Mar 3 2008, 07:15 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Fine, my friend is an example of why it shouldn't be doen at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And my brothers and I are examples why it should, as well as quite a few of my other friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostDipset, on Mar 3 2008, 07:46 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Besides, sicne spanking causes pain, is that not assault?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              No, it's not. It's physical conditioning, or physical re-enforcement. It's not beating, it's not torturing, it's a slap on the wrist, back of head, or backside to show the child that what they did was wrong. It's not lasting physical pain of any kind, and it's done with good intention to teach the child right from wrong, and it works in a lot of cases. Maybe it's not right for everyone, but to say it should never be done, or is never appropriate is completely fallacious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostSaturos Striker, on Mar 3 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Saying "no" harshly to a child is conditioning as well. Seriously, I'm getting sick of all this jumping to conclusions crap. Can't you see that this kind of pain isn't like a punch in the face or being run over by a car? It's just sort of a knee bang against the door thing, you rub over it a bit, and walk on. Sure you can be moral about it and say you're not allowed to cause pain to anyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Completely correct. Saying no harshly, or raising your voice can do the exact same thing, it just depends on what you feel is appropriate for the situation at hand. It doesn't need to be a spontaneous thing either, it's a well-reasoned action that you employ to achieve a desired outcome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostCaael, on Mar 3 2008, 08:48 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well yeah, corporal punishment should be used as a last resort.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Not always, but it may be used as an alternative to verbal punishment, time-out or taking something away. It depends on what is appropriate. If you're in a shop with your kid and they're screaming, a sharp smack can stop them at once, but if it's an on-going issue, then perhaps grounding them / taking a toy away / banning television is more suitable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #119   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 03 March 2008 - 02:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You may not have gotten emotional truama, but my friend did, which is why it shouldn't be done. Even if it is a small percentage that gets emotional trauma from it, it is still a percentage. I guarantee if yo ugot emotional truama from it, you would be singing a WAY different tune, and don't say you wouldn't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #120   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 03 March 2008 - 07:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm not saying hitting a child will lead to trauma, I'm saying it does in some cases so why risk it? In your very own example, if the kid is making a scene in public, bend over them and tell them a stern no if you raised your kid properly from the start (an arguement which i'd like to point out most of you are ignoring) then a stern no will stop them dead in their tracks. Lazy parenting makes it necessary to spank your child, so why should the kid suffer the consequences of the parents lame parenting skills?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  physical conditioning or physical re-inforcement are just other words for abuse in this case. Put whatever happy name on it you want, if you touch someone when they don't want you to, you are in the wrong under the LAW and not just in happy go lucky canada.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Uhhh that quote fricken says in it "sure you can be moral about it and say you're not allowed to cause pain to anyone" oh ok then. I think I will be moral thank you very much. I kinda thought the point of this was deciding what was moral, so thanks for clearing that up :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In all reality, look at your arguements and tell me your not just defending what's easy instead of what's right. True a slap in public will shut them up, and unless you've been handling them properly from the beginning (which really, who wants to put effort into raising kids? D:) then a harsh no won't work. You know it's wrong because inflicting pain (whether lasting or not) fundamentally goes against what your parents teach you when you're raised.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't doubt that you guys turned out ok despite the spanking, but we turned out ok without spanking. So since it can be done without spanking, why use it when, quite frankly, pain is bad? But if you are willing to let morals slide to do what's easier, then there's no talking to you and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #121   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 03 March 2008 - 07:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ANd sicne there is a chacne that it can go wrong, it shouldn't be allowed. The kid could grow up to be grea,t but he could also grow up to be the next Charles Manson.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And like Kate said, don't you teach your kids to not hit anybdoy no matter how light? Well if you spank your child, then you are a MAJOR hypocrite. Basically if you spank your child, you don't have the right to get mad if they get in a fight.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #122   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 03 March 2008 - 09:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I believed I have changed my position a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Honestly everyone has their own personality and the way they end up is determined by their decisions. Now spanking can teach children that there are consequences for there actions if they do something bad, and spanking is a simple example of a bad consequence. Therefore your child has learned that something is wrong with a small consequence and they don't screw up in the future and have something worse happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View Postkate, on Mar 3 2008, 07:30 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not saying hitting a child will lead to trauma, I'm saying it does in some cases so why risk it? In your very own example, if the kid is making a scene in public, bend over them and tell them a stern no if you raised your kid properly from the start (an arguement which i'd like to point out most of you are ignoring) then a stern no will stop them dead in their tracks. Lazy parenting makes it necessary to spank your child, so why should the kid suffer the consequences of the parents lame parenting skills?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      physical conditioning or physical re-inforcement are just other words for abuse in this case. Put whatever happy name on it you want, if you touch someone when they don't want you to, you are in the wrong under the LAW and not just in happy go lucky canada.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Uhhh that quote fricken says in it "sure you can be moral about it and say you're not allowed to cause pain to anyone" oh ok then. I think I will be moral thank you very much. I kinda thought the point of this was deciding what was moral, so thanks for clearing that up :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In all reality, look at your arguements and tell me your not just defending what's easy instead of what's right. True a slap in public will shut them up, and unless you've been handling them properly from the beginning (which really, who wants to put effort into raising kids? D:) then a harsh no won't work. You know it's wrong because inflicting pain (whether lasting or not) fundamentally goes against what your parents teach you when you're raised.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't doubt that you guys turned out ok despite the spanking, but we turned out ok without spanking. So since it can be done without spanking, why use it when, quite frankly, pain is bad? But if you are willing to let morals slide to do what's easier, then there's no talking to you and we'll just have to agree to disagree.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now you say that if you have to spank a child to get them to shut up then you were a bad parent. I will have you know that I take that as an insult to my parents whom I respect very much. My new belief is that different parenting strategies work differently with different personalities. That would explain why you turned out the way you did without being spanked and likewise with me. All a parents job is, is to raise their children the best they know how, and then at a certain age let them go and hope to god that they fly. That is the best a parent can do. The ways they go about doing this are different but their goals are ultimately the same. My new opinion is that it just depends on the kid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #123   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 03 March 2008 - 10:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I like your position gio, and I certainly did not mean to offend you. I'm not saying your parents didn't do their best, I'm saying that had they used different methods it wouldn't have had to come to spanking, unless indeed you were a rebellious child in which case outside help should've been sought. It does vary on the child, but there are other ways to go about dealing with it. Also I don't think it is our personalities that made spanking work on you and not me, as if we had been in each others families we may have turned out just as ok. Some children however do react to it badly, as the mind associates the fight or flight instinct with the source of any pain, something I don't think you would want your child to associate with you, no matter how subconciously.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What I meant about the proper parenting is that some (most even) use spanking to be strict. My parents were strict no matter what, and so they never had to spank me because I knew better. So I feel in spanking cases, it's because they've been lax beforehand that it comes to spanking. That being said, some people would rather have grave punishments for grave acts and more freedom in other areas, but the child is never given that option, as they don't choose their parents. That's why spanking's not right, you're imposing an ideal on a child that cannot resist it, or at least can't until later on where, in rare cases like skippy's friend, it culminates into something much worse.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #124   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 03 March 2008 - 10:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I can see your point, but as a child my parents had taught me that the only reason they were spanking me is because I did something wrong, and under no circumstance was I supposed to hit someone. Later on in life it became "don't hit or harm anyone unless your life or your family members lives are being threatened. It was a gradual process. I mean as a child your mind is easy to mold I will give you that, but you have ample time to allow them to understand the reason you are punishing them by spanking them and to teach them that they are not in a position where they have that right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          off to bed for now. I will reply in the morning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #125   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 03 March 2008 - 11:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hmm...I dunno, so spurting out a kid gives you the right to be violent? harsh terms I know, but that's basically what you're saying. They don't own you, and their own reasoning is flawed. "we're hitting you because you did something wrong, but you can't hit other people" well what if other people do something wrong? Or are you just less of a person than them so you don't have that right? Or is it because they're family that they have the right to hurt you? That's how you know where home is, where you get hit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #126   Elliott 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 04 March 2008 - 01:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Who ever said violence had anything to do it with it? And for the last time, it's not abuse. It's physical conditioning, if you're too blinded by your textbook mortality to get a grasp of that, then what's the point of me debating with you any longer? It's quick, it's easy, it's effective, that's all there is to it. If it doesn't work for you, or if you don't feel right doing it, then that's completely your call. But to say that all forms of physical conditioning are wrong, abusive, violent, or guaranteed to traumatize, is just completely incorrect and pathetic. Sure, some parents may have gone too far and damaged their children, but that's not a flaw in the process, it's a flaw in the execution.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #127   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 04 March 2008 - 10:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But still, when your kid gives another kid a quick hit to the head if they did something wrong, you would punish your child, which is not right, becasue they grew up knowing to cause a quick pain if you do something wrong. You can't spank and then tell them to not hit other people, it's jsut being hypocritical. And like Kate said, there is ALWAYS other methods to get a kid to listen. IF they don't listne no matter how much you tlel them, or yell, then get them a therapist, or some other outside help. If you don't, they may relate pain to bad things, adn therefore will hit people who do something they think as bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #128   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 04 March 2008 - 01:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View PostDipset, on Mar 4 2008, 05:56 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But still, when your kid gives another kid a quick hit to the head if they did something wrong, you would punish your child, which is not right, becasue they grew up knowing to cause a quick pain if you do something wrong. You can't spank and then tell them to not hit other people, it's jsut being hypocritical. And like Kate said, there is ALWAYS other methods to get a kid to listen. IF they don't listne no matter how much you tlel them, or yell, then get them a therapist, or some other outside help. If you don't, they may relate pain to bad things, adn therefore will hit people who do something they think as bad.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  First off, if you change the method you choose to educate your child with, it will just so that the parent has lost control. Makes the parent look weak, and the child will use that against them to put the situation to their hand. You tell your kid off when he yells at other people too, right? Since that's not proper either. Well that's just as hypocritical.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And stop saying that there's always another way to get there. Sure, there's another way, but I think the parent should have a choice in the way they choose to raise their child. The government shouldn't have any, ANY hand in choosing that for the parents. Unless there are negative effects. Which there aren't sufficiently. If it's 1 in a million case with children that it works badly, that's not enough.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #129   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 04 March 2008 - 02:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There ARE negative effects. Not all parents get mad at their kids for yelling at another child, so don't say that is hypocritical. And no matter how little the pain is, it is still ****ING PAIN. That is what is not gonig through your head. Sure, they may be 7, but they know what pain is, and it should not be inflicted to a ****nig child. Why are you not allowed to smack a baby upside the head if they throw their food on the floor? Becuase it is ****ing wrong. I HATE parents who think that spankng is a way to silence their ****nig child. If you feel the need to HURT your child, which is what you are doing by spanking them, then you need some serious ****nig help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And so you are saying that because only a small number of people could go wrong because of spanking(and I KNOW it is mroe than the number you put down), then it is allright to do it, and if some kid gets violent over it, well **** it, let's let him kill somebody, let's not prevet it, let's be lazy and hit our children, because it MAY work.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Tell me truthfully that you wouldn't change your mind if your child killed somebdoy because he was spanked?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #130   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 04 March 2008 - 03:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I agree spanking is an effective way to raise a child at a young age. I think it is ineffective on teenagers, but work wonders on children less than 10. I wouldn't use it as the first option, but I would never rule it out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #131   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 04 March 2008 - 03:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But why can't you hit babies or teenagers? They are still a child, so why not use force on them? It is jsut dumb. Pain should NEVER be inflicted to a child. Point and case. Doesn't matter if the pain lasts 5 minutes, it shouldn't happen. If the kid still isn't listining, get a child therapist, and reward him for when he is good, insted of punishing him when he is bad. Basically, tell him i you say no, and he does what you tell him, he might get something good. There are ALWAYS alternatives. Basically, if yo uagree to kids getting spanked, you CAN NOT disagree to murder, becasue it is just a more severe punishment for doing something bad. Don't try and say I am being too extreme because I am not. If you draw on the walls, spanked, if you kill somebody, killed. It goes both ways.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #132   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 04 March 2008 - 03:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostDipset, on Mar 4 2008, 09:49 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There ARE negative effects. Not all parents get mad at their kids for yelling at another child, so don't say that is hypocritical. And no matter how little the pain is, it is still ****ING PAIN. That is what is not gonig through your head. Sure, they may be 7, but they know what pain is, and it should not be inflicted to a ****nig child. Why are you not allowed to smack a baby upside the head if they throw their food on the floor? Becuase it is ****ing wrong. I HATE parents who think that spankng is a way to silence their ****nig child. If you feel the need to HURT your child, which is what you are doing by spanking them, then you need some serious ****nig help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And so you are saying that because only a small number of people could go wrong because of spanking(and I KNOW it is mroe than the number you put down), then it is allright to do it, and if some kid gets violent over it, well **** it, let's let him kill somebody, let's not prevet it, let's be lazy and hit our children, because it MAY work.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tell me truthfully that you wouldn't change your mind if your child killed somebdoy because he was spanked?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lay off the swear words, it doesn't improve arguements.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't see the harm in a bit of pain (aint that a paradox, eh?). I just don't. If my child killed someone in general I'd be shocked, I'd probably question myself and where it went wrong but I don't believe that would the reason he commited a murder would be because I slapped him on the wrist for telling him off every now and then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As for the numbers, as long as I don't see numbers that it IS a problem, it isn't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #133   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 04 March 2008 - 03:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostDipset, on Mar 4 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If the kid still isn't listining, get a child therapist, and reward him for when he is good, instead of punishing him when he is bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            With your logic you can't do that either, because then maybe the kid will think that every time he does something right he will get rewarded. Seriously different methods work in different situations and you can never rule any of them out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostDipset, on Mar 4 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There are ALWAYS alternatives. Basically, if yo uagree to kids getting spanked, you CAN NOT disagree to murder, becasue it is just a more severe punishment for doing something bad. Don't try and say I am being too extreme because I am not. If you draw on the walls, spanked, if you kill somebody, killed. It goes both ways.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes that is a bit extreme when all we are talking about is disipclining your kids. But your right murder is a punishment. Capital punishment to be exact and people in some country get it because they have murdering.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #134   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 04 March 2008 - 04:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But say somebody killed "John's" gf, and he was spanked as a child, which made him learn that when you do something bad, you give somebody pain. Will "John" might kill the guy who killed his gf.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              SUre, not all spanked children turn out bad, some turn otu grea,t but some don't and that is why it shouldn't be allowed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #135   FlamingDuck 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 04 March 2008 - 05:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostDipset, on Mar 4 2008, 05:33 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But say somebody killed "John's" gf, and he was spanked as a child, which made him learn that when you do something bad, you give somebody pain. Will "John" might kill the guy who killed his gf.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sure, not all spanked children turn out bad, some turn otu grea,t but some don't and that is why it shouldn't be allowed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm fairly sure almost everyone was spanked as a child. People wouldn't even care, probably focusing on more recent trends, like drinking, "violent video gaming", etc. If it was all out abuse, then that's a different story.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Spanking teenagers is a horrible idea, because teenagers are rebellious enough as they are, and they think it would super rebellious if they hit back. The problem should be remedied before the teen years, or else you are gonna have to come with a different solution.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But for children in second grade and under, they need to learn that there are consequences to their actions, and if that consequence is getting hurt, then so be it. What if "John" was never spanked or learned anything about accountability and consequences? He could grow up thinking that nothing could ever happen to him, and then get beat up some day for doing something out of line and have no idea why. I'd rather have my kids know the consequences of their actions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think spanking should be used when the child knows he has done something wrong. Children do know when they've misbehaved, and expect to be punished, unless they have a track record of getting away with things. Whether it be anything from time-out in a corner to spanking, children need to know to expect not to be able to get away with misbehavior.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Saying a child should never experience pain is a reason why our culture is as overprotected as it is. It sounds sort of sadistic, but pain builds character. Getting a therapist if your kid doesn't listen is a pretty weak solution, when taking the matter into your own hands would build respect and a relationship. People generally don't like people they can walk over. The same goes for parents and children.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And we don't spank babies because they don't know any better. Most of the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #136   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 04 March 2008 - 05:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Then go for it, give then a time out. I never said children shouldn't experience pain, but it shouldn't be from their parents. Give them a time out, or take away their things. The more they do bad things, make their punishments longer. No video games/tv/computer for a day, then 2, then a week. The kids WILL learn. ANy parent(and I am in no way trying to be offencive, so if you take it that way, just bakc off) who feels the need to hit their child, did something wrong while they were parenting, or they are just not fit to be a parent. Don't they teach us to never deal with things pshyically, and to use our words? Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #137   FlamingDuck 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 04 March 2008 - 05:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostDipset, on Mar 4 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ANy parent(and I am in no way trying to be offencive, so if you take it that way, just bakc off) who feels the need to hit their child, did something wrong while they were parenting, or they are just not fit to be a parent. Don't they teach us to never deal with things pshyically, and to use our words? Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It's different when someone has authority over someone else. Kids shouldn't hit each other, because they are all on the same playing field, but adults need to control their kids. It's two completely different scenarios.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #138   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 04 March 2008 - 05:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Riiight. just like your boss has authority over you. That's why you always get spanked in the workplace :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      oook I don't even know where to start on the people who posted while I was gone. Agatio first, you made alot of claims about the things I was saying that made me seem like an extremist, when in fact I wasn't saying things to that degree at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      flamingduck, I was never spanked as a child, so there goes that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      SS, I agree, I don't think you can stop spanking them once you've started or they will undermine your authority. That's why I said if you're spanking your kid you went wrong somewhere else, and parents should start off right from the beginning. Also, it's good you brought that up, because the reason why some spanking cases lead to beatings is because kids start to get used to it and the parents can't stop so they get more and more severe. Speaking of beatings, you mentioned the government has no say in how parents raise their children? So then you don't think abused children (and I mean broken limbs and whatnot) should be taken away from their parents? Tell that to my friend who was nearly killed by her mother.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From reading your posts it seems to me the main part where we're disagreeing is whether spanking is seen as causing pain, or if it's more of an annoyance that should be acceptable. Really I suppose that's mostly a matter of opinion, but as someone said, you don't hit teenagers because they can fight back and be rebellious. Well why would they be fighting back so physically if you weren't physically harming them? Anywho, it seems the morals of some people here are somewhat skewed in favor of doing something that is easy and effective. Hey, stealing candy from babies is easy and effective too but I'm pretty sure you'd all frown on it...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #139   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 04 March 2008 - 06:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostFlamingDuck, on Mar 4 2008, 06:23 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's different when someone has authority over someone else. Kids shouldn't hit each other, because they are all on the same playing field, but adults need to control their kids. It's two completely different scenarios.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So by your theory, Eugine is allowed to hit me, because he is an adult, and I am still a teenager.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kate, I love you. :P. You are making the most valid points, and honestly, proving every single other person here wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sure, spanknig is easy and effective, but if you have to spank your child, then you did somethig wrong whilst parenting them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        And you are saying that spanking is a last resort. What do you do after spanking. What if your 7 year old still doesn't listen after you have spanked them countless times, do you hit them? PLEASE try adn tell me what coems after the spanking?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #140   Laharl 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 04 March 2008 - 07:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *cracks Skid*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LEARN YOUR PLACE BOY!! XD

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i'm not very good at these kind of debates as most of my solutions for problem children involve the gallows or a gas chamber :/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          in my high school we had the "exit room", where if you pissed about then you got sent there to be in isolation for the rest of the day, sounds okayish in theory, but in practice alot of people just went there on purpose to avoid lessons they hadnt done homework for >>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          getting sidetracked, corporal punishment is okay when applid to actual crimes but snotty prick school kids should just be shot suspended or something

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #141   FlamingDuck 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 04 March 2008 - 08:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View Postkate, on Mar 4 2008, 06:51 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Riiight. just like your boss has authority over you. That's why you always get spanked in the workplace :P


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That's a different kind of authority. You are still on the same level intellectually and physically.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            flamingduck, I was never spanked as a child, so there goes that.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I guess I sorta sounded like I thought everyone had to be spanked as a child to grow up well, which is ridonkulous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #142   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 04 March 2008 - 09:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kate and skidz you say that kids getting spanked causes emotional trauma and causes kids act out violently when they grow up, and you yourselves have said that not all cases are like this. Now if the majority of the cases are not causing violence and emotional trauma, don't you thinks that it is possible that those things could have occurred from something else. For example let's say a kid has been spanked and they are a good kid and obey the rules. You know just and average kid. Then one day they come home from school and find their mother dead in the living room floor with a gun in her hand and they realize that she committed suicide. I mean you would have to take into account just about everything in a kids life to prove that it was the spanking that caused them to act out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #143   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 04 March 2008 - 11:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cool. So it was their sad life of suicidal mothers and cheating gf's that caused them to go psycho. That totally makes it all okay then. Because I mean, pain is totally allowable as long as it doesn't end up in that person turning into a psychopath and killing people. So if I punched you in the face, that'd be alright because you're not going to go crazy? Awesome.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 05 March 2008 - 12:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View Postkate, on Mar 5 2008, 06:51 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  cool. So it was their sad life of suicidal mothers and cheating gf's that caused them to go psycho. That totally makes it all okay then. Because I mean, pain is totally allowable as long as it doesn't end up in that person turning into a psychopath and killing people. So if I punched you in the face, that'd be alright because you're not going to go crazy? Awesome.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yeah, because those are two totally comparable situations. :P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Since I'm getting pissed off typing the same thing over and over again as you two are doing. I'll just quote the post that has the best things to say on the pain issue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View PostElliott, on Mar 4 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Who ever said violence had anything to do it with it? And for the last time, it's not abuse. It's physical conditioning, if you're too blinded by your textbook mortality to get a grasp of that, then what's the point of me debating with you any longer? It's quick, it's easy, it's effective, that's all there is to it. If it doesn't work for you, or if you don't feel right doing it, then that's completely your call. But to say that all forms of physical conditioning are wrong, abusive, violent, or guaranteed to traumatize, is just completely incorrect and pathetic. Sure, some parents may have gone too far and damaged their children, but that's not a flaw in the process, it's a flaw in the execution.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #145   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 05 March 2008 - 01:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Anyone who wasn't spanked as a child never went to a public school, or had really leniant parents (which isn't exactly a good thing). Or unless your name is Riad. :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostElliott, on Mar 3 2008, 11:15 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Who ever said violence had anything to do it with it? And for the last time, it's not abuse. It's physical conditioning, if you're too blinded by your textbook mortality to get a grasp of that, then what's the point of me debating with you any longer? It's quick, it's easy, it's effective, that's all there is to it. If it doesn't work for you, or if you don't feel right doing it, then that's completely your call. But to say that all forms of physical conditioning are wrong, abusive, violent, or guaranteed to traumatize, is just completely incorrect and pathetic. Sure, some parents may have gone too far and damaged their children, but that's not a flaw in the process, it's a flaw in the execution.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm going to continue to quote that until Skidz understands that most children learn what's right and wrong best through punishment. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #146   Elliott 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 05 March 2008 - 01:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View Postkate, on Mar 5 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cool. So it was their sad life of suicidal mothers and cheating gf's that caused them to go psycho. That totally makes it all okay then. Because I mean, pain is totally allowable as long as it doesn't end up in that person turning into a psychopath and killing people. So if I punched you in the face, that'd be alright because you're not going to go crazy? Awesome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And being punched in a face is the same as a sharp open-hand slap across the backside? Awesome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Your failure to make definitions between the different forms of physical pain is the undoing of your entire argument. Maybe when you understand that a quick slap is different to a punch, or an excessive slapping, then you'll be able to grasp the concept of 'physical re-enforcement with good intentions' (that works in a hell of a lot more cases than it doesn't).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #147   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 05 March 2008 - 02:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        And even if maybe one out of a hundred kids end up physically abused by their parents, that's the parents' fault for taking that option too far, plain and simple. I think it's for the greater good that those other 99 kids grow up to be respectable citizens.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #148   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 05 March 2008 - 03:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostToasty, on Mar 5 2008, 02:15 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyone who wasn't spanked as a child never went to a public school, or had really leniant parents (which isn't exactly a good thing). Or unless your name is Riad. :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I was never spanked, and I went to a public school. A majority of public school children weren't spanked.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But I'm probably gonig to stop posting in this topic, becasue the more I read the posts in here, the more angry I get on how ridiculious you all sound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #149   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 05 March 2008 - 03:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Let me see...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You do drugs, you sell drugs, you always swear, you fight in school, you know gang members.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *sigh*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Maybe you should have got spanked =)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyway, let me repeat my position -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I do not believe spanking should be the first option, but a last resort. I think it is extremely effective though with children less than 10, (who are still learning reasoning skills), but not for teenagers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I strongly believe in living by example, and all parents should try their best to set a good example, so that spanking never becomes an option.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Honestly, I was not spanked as a child ;_;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My parents should have though! x3

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #150   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 05 March 2008 - 03:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View Post.eugine, on Mar 5 2008, 04:43 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Let me see...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You do drugs, you sell drugs, you always swear, you fight in school, you know gang members.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *sigh*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Maybe you should have got spanked =)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So ya I said I wouldn't post in here again, but that made me laugh. Cookie for you. *Gives .eugine a cookie.*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But really, even if I was spanked, I probably still would have done all those things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #151   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 05 March 2008 - 08:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                agatio it was an exagerration, not the same thing duh. frankly i think it depends on the person if you see it as bad. i have a friend who if you shove her she like won't talk to you for a week lol. Others are like...practically massochists. I'm not entirely sure where i was going with that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Anywho, skippy and I have kinda made all our points, and so have you, seeing how we keep saying the same stuff over and over again. But really you can say it sixty different ways and we'll still disagree. It's not like I can magically make you see the light.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ...doesn't mean I'm going to stop saying it though, so here we go again!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                punch in the face, kick in the groin, slap across the cheek, paddle on the backside, all forms of viol-oh I'm sorry "physical reinforcement" u.u m'bad. Because really, what is the definition of physical reinforcement? Using physicalness (my vocabulary is vast and amazing) to...reinforce a point XD Ok so, if someone sleeps with your gf, you beat the **** out of them to "reinforce" that they should not have done that. Bad cheating whore and betraying ****, no cookie. Some call it violence though (crazy people). So please just let me call it violence, because physical reinforcement takes way too long to type, and I'm getting tired of this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Soooo (gonna jump to a conclusion here, so watch out ss) violence (unless completely unprovoked and you're just a jackass)=physical reinforcement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                BUTBUTBUT violence is wrong

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a = b, a = c therefore something something. Point is, spanking is wrong (omfg go back 10 pages and it's like deja vu) and if there's other ways to solve it, why resort to it? However most problems can be solved with talking and people still use violence, so I'm kinda trying to bleed a stone or something.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Btw I patronize because I care <3

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #152   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 05 March 2008 - 08:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View Postkate, on Mar 5 2008, 09:06 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  punch in the face, kick in the groin, slap across the cheek, paddle on the backside, all forms of viol-oh I'm sorry "physical reinforcement" u.u m'bad. Because really, what is the definition of physical reinforcement? Using physicalness (my vocabulary is vast and amazing) to...reinforce a point XD Ok so, if someone sleeps with your gf, you beat the **** out of them to "reinforce" that they should not have done that. Bad cheating whore and betraying ****, no cookie. Some call it violence though (crazy people). So please just let me call it violence, because physical reinforcement takes way too long to type, and I'm getting tired of this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Kate and me-1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Everybdoy else-BIG FAT ****ING ZERO.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  :o.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  She tells it how it is. Especially the fact that psyically reinforcment is use pshyical harm to reinforce a point, and therefore beating somebody up becasue they slept with your gf is pysicall reinforcement. Oh and didn't you guys say spanknig is pysicall reinforcement. Hold the phone. Wait, does that not mean that they are the same thing? Hmmm.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #153   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 05 March 2008 - 09:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Skidz you can't say much anymore because of this

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Let me see...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You do drugs, you sell drugs, you always swear, you fight in school, you know gang members.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    *sigh*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe you should have got spanked =)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But really, even if I was spanked, I probably still would have done all those things.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You don't know because it didn't happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #154   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 06 March 2008 - 01:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View Postkate, on Mar 6 2008, 03:06 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      agatio it was an exagerration, not the same thing duh. frankly i think it depends on the person if you see it as bad. i have a friend who if you shove her she like won't talk to you for a week lol. Others are like...practically massochists. I'm not entirely sure where i was going with that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anywho, skippy and I have kinda made all our points, and so have you, seeing how we keep saying the same stuff over and over again. But really you can say it sixty different ways and we'll still disagree. It's not like I can magically make you see the light.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ...doesn't mean I'm going to stop saying it though, so here we go again!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      punch in the face, kick in the groin, slap across the cheek, paddle on the backside, all forms of viol-oh I'm sorry "physical reinforcement" u.u m'bad. Because really, what is the definition of physical reinforcement? Using physicalness (my vocabulary is vast and amazing) to...reinforce a point XD Ok so, if someone sleeps with your gf, you beat the **** out of them to "reinforce" that they should not have done that. Bad cheating whore and betraying ****, no cookie. Some call it violence though (crazy people). So please just let me call it violence, because physical reinforcement takes way too long to type, and I'm getting tired of this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Soooo (gonna jump to a conclusion here, so watch out ss) violence (unless completely unprovoked and you're just a jackass)=physical reinforcement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      BUTBUTBUT violence is wrong

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a = b, a = c therefore something something. Point is, spanking is wrong (omfg go back 10 pages and it's like deja vu) and if there's other ways to solve it, why resort to it? However most problems can be solved with talking and people still use violence, so I'm kinda trying to bleed a stone or something.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Btw I patronize because I care <3


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      OMG YOU NOOB A is not B, ZOMG LEARN
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      We're talking about children, not about adults, teens, babies, adolescents, grown-ups. Thus we say, that's not the same thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yeah... I'm kind of waiting for new news to bump the topic too. Since it's kind of recycling now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostDipset, on Mar 6 2008, 03:11 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Kate-2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pro - spanking - BIG FAT caking 2

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's a draw much? Aint I the compromiser.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      :o .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      She tells it how it is. Especially the fact that psyically reinforcment is use pshyical harm to reinforce a point, and therefore beating somebody up becasue they slept with your gf is pysicall reinforcement. Oh and didn't you guys say spanknig is pysicall reinforcement. Hold the phone. Wait, does that not mean that they are the same thing? Hmmm.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This post is full of fail since it's all been said in the post above you. But lemme correct.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #155   Elliott 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • AKA Agatio

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 06 March 2008 - 01:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Having a girlfriend cheating on you is not comparable to a child making a scene in public.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Not everything is black and white here, so please stop making stupid comparisons and analogies, because that, along with typing like a 6 year old, isn't helping whatever case it is your trying to present here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sure, it's physical pain, big deal. It's not lasting physical pain, nor even lasting psychological pain (I'm actually grateful I was spanked as a kid, and I'm certain quite a lot of others out there are thankful for it as well).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The bottom line of my argument is: it's quick, it's effective, and in 95 cases out of 100, there's only good to come from it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sometimes counseling etc. can just exacerbate the problem, how do you think a 3 or 4 year old kid is going to respond to sitting down and trying to reason with a full-grown, unfamiliar adult about their inappropriate behavior?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #156   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 06 March 2008 - 01:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So what about those 5 others? What if easch of them kills somebdoy? Not saying that WILL happen, but it COULD. What then? So now you ahve "saved" 95 kids, but now 10 have their lives ruined.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you hadn't spanked them, then they still might have turned out great. You jsut don't know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And don't jsut say NO to every example we put out there. You are jsut mad becasue we are saying very valid points, but you are jsut to stubborn to even take them into account.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *Smack myself*. I said I wouldn't post in here again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #157   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 06 March 2008 - 01:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostDipset, on Mar 6 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So what about those 5 others? What if easch of them kills somebdoy? Not saying that WILL happen, but it COULD. What then? So now you ahve "saved" 95 kids, but now 10 have their lives ruined.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you hadn't spanked them, then they still might have turned out great. You jsut don't know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And don't jsut say NO to every example we put out there. You are jsut mad becasue we are saying very valid points, but you are jsut to stubborn to even take them into account.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *Smack myself*. I said I wouldn't post in here again.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It's bit arrogant to say that all your points are good and valid. Most of them are exaggerating, twisted, uncomparable situations. You're both seeing it black and white as Agatio pointed out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And the 5 people where it didn't work on, don't have to turn in psyco killers. They could just have a bad relationship with their parents. Limited to no or limited contact, not murder. Another example of how you both exaggerate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #158   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 06 March 2008 - 02:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And it's not exactly an efficient argument to call our opinions ridiculous. You're the one who keeps regurgitating the same point and refusing to take into account the factors we're providing by twisting them into the worst possible scenario.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Which is not to say we're right. Maybe we're completely wrong, and you've yet to give us some sort of golden argument that will end this all, but so far all I've seen from you is the same old thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #159   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 06 March 2008 - 02:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And all you guys have said is the same thing aswell, which is why I was leaving this topic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also why I'm not going to say my 0.02$ again, becasue jsut like you guys, me and Kat are just saying the same things over and over.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nothnig anybody can say in this topic will be new anymore, it will jsut be the same thing over and over again, jsut reworded.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #160   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 06 March 2008 - 03:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View PostDipset, on Mar 6 2008, 02:39 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And all you guys have said is the same thing aswell, which is why I was leaving this topic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Also why I'm not going to say my 0.02$ again, becasue jsut like you guys, me and Kat are just saying the same things over and over.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nothnig anybody can say in this topic will be new anymore, it will jsut be the same thing over and over again, jsut reworded.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Of course we keep saying to same things, because all you are doing is giving the worst possible scenario that could happen, when in reality the chances that your outlandish ideas are really going to come to pass are very slim. That would be the reason we say the same thing every time. Your ideas are exaggerated. And that is the reason we can use the same argument over and over again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #161   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 06 March 2008 - 03:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My little brother is a perfect example of why kids should be spanked. He wasnt physically punished as a child, and he doesnt listen to words at all. He's spoilt, loud, obnoxious, and anti-social. Nobody likes him because he knows he can do whatever he wants without getting punished. I beat him up to shut him the hell up because he's just an embarrassment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #162   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 06 March 2008 - 04:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @ Gio-Fine, what if those 5 kids don't kill, but get violent? Is that soo outlandish? NO! It's not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @ Caael-Well your parents should not have gave in. Ignore when he yells or when he acts out, adn take away all the things he likes. Make him stay in his room with no TV, Computer, or Video games. Sooner or latter, that WILL make him learn.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #163   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 06 March 2008 - 04:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No it isn't and I also think that being spanked isn't going to be the only thing that causes a kid to be violent and act out and grow up to be that way. Maybe it is just their personality. Maybe it is and an inbalance in hormones. You know it could be many different things. So therefore you can't say that all 5 of those remaining kids are violent because of spanking. Maybe one is and only every other group of 100 children. I mean you never know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #164   Drizzy Drake 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 06 March 2008 - 04:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Fine ,even if it is ONE kid out of 100 that turns violent because of spanking, wouldn't that be enough to not do it. Do you want your kid to be in a class with that other kid? No. 1 out of 100 is alot if you really think about it. Plus all the other violent children that have nothing to do with spanking.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But once again, you will find something to make that invalid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #165   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 06 March 2008 - 04:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yeah the fact that the number may well be higher. I mean it could be 1 out of 1000 I mean you never know. Also I don't know why your are striving for perfection here. There is no way that 100% of all children are going to grow up to be perfect little non violent children. That won't happen. There is no such thing as perfect so you may as well just settle for less.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But once again, you will find something to make that invalid.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The point of a debate is to prove your opponents point invalid and make your own valid point and last time I checked this was a debate forum so stop complaining.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #166   kate 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 06 March 2008 - 10:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LOL at skippy and his "not posting" skills.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I love how every time I try to lighten a situation by writing something in a fun way (not any less valid, just quirky) someone's so quick to insult it "omfg you write like 6 year old".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's kinda like those commercials of pepsi where they find very stupid and trivial flaws in coke so that they can try and bring it down, when really it's just because they have no good points to make about their own product, and coke remains the victor :o (there, now I've pissed off a bunch of pepsi drinkers too XD)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              if you don't like how I type, go suck a duck, because I lose all respect for you when you resort to name calling because you can't prove your point. (technically telling you to go suck a duck is derrogatory too, but i'm a hypocrite so it's more fun that way)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              at least I'm having fun with it. You're all *angst*. omg you're totally an example of how spanking goes wrong. Don't spank your kids, they'll turn out like agatio. (...not really)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Really though, while I find it funny you say our examples and analogies are outlandish and then keep changing your stats on how many kids are damaged by spanking, I'm only speaking of things in terms of black and white because really, it's a black and white situation. If you can use other methods, why spank? [insert every other time i've said this a million different ways] And omg that whole "a kid won't understand talking rationally to a psychologist" thing. Good thing you respect your kids so much. Give them some credit, they're not retarded (could say something really mean here but I'm not).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And what we're doing now is just silly. We're picking at the semantics of each others arguements, when obviously these analogies and examples are neither concrete nor backed by solid evidence. We know each others main theories, and now you're just covering your ears and going "no no lalalalalalala" and really, so are we. Honestly, I think your arguement is dumb and lazy, but it is not without some truths, and neither is ours. So stop acting like children...or I'll spank you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (and since that typing comment really does piss me off, I have a 95% in english 30I and 98% in world literature 35I, so I'm not too worried about my writing skills. Don't you fret your pretty little head about them either)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #167   Gio 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 06 March 2008 - 11:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About half way through this debate I change my stance. Basically all I did was tell you that spanking is not wrong, and that is what I have been trying to say this whole time. I have not been trying to say that your views are incorrect all I have said is that mine aren't incorrect either. Yet there still crap posted that says that it is wrong. This is a stupid topic anyway. It should be closed or we should just all shut up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #168   Ironsight 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 06 March 2008 - 11:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I change my mind about the corporal punishment thing. Some people just deserve to get smacked around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #169   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 07 March 2008 - 01:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My little brother does not listen to words of punishment in any way. He will block of his ears when he hears insults or punishments, so you have to be violent. If he's annoying me, a quick slap around the head and he'll shut up. Tell him to go to his room and he'll get all territorial and refuse to move from his spot. He's also got serious anger issues. He'll lose in a game he's playing and he'll smash the controller on the table. He's an embarassment to be related to and I sometimes think i'm not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The worst part is that he's 11, not 4.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #170   Elliott 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 07 March 2008 - 02:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you've got your 95%, then use it, trusts me, I tend to take people much more seriously when I can decipher what they're talking about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Furthermore, most of you seem to excuse the fact that kids who aren't spanked can turn out just as violent as kids who are. On the other side of the spectrum, kids who either are or aren't spanked can also turn into social recluses, never being outgoing. Like I said before, it's not all black and white. A won't always equal B. If it works, do it, if it doesn't then yes, try an alternative method.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But yes, both sides have depleted their arguments and we're resorting to nit-picking here, so I'll take my leave here also (and yes, I will actually take my leave) because I've said I'll I've got to say, if you want to hear it again, just re-read the thread, all my points are there.


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