[TheEnglishman]

There's a lot of talk about the wider impact of the recent crisis in Georgia, saying that the damage it's caused could eventually lead to another Cold War. Personally I don't think it would happen, but it's worrying right?

[Eugine]

Oh well. Unfortunately I have no knowledge of the Georgian-Russian conflict. It sure does remind me of the coldwar era though.
Ah well. Too bad the world cannot do anything to Russia, so we'll have to watch them bully Georgia (although, Georgia started the war IIRC. Russia's response was disproportionate and far too harsh though.

[Lemontime]

I think what Russia have done is bloody idiotic..
They invaded during the opening ceremony, for christs sake! They're so messed up.

[Ironsight]

All I know is that Russia came in with some tanks.

[Eugine]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

lol omg. Fox News got pwned. They were so shocked when those women were defending the Russians. They OBVIOUSLY tried to cut them off.

Oh well. That's why it's always good to hear both sides to a story before you come to a conclusion. All the western media is protraying Russia as the big bully, when people on the ground are obviously feeling differently.

[Split Infinity]

Who the hell schedules a news station down to the second? That's crap.

[Toasty]

Apparently on of Fox News's reporters was caught in a firefight in Georgia.

Anyway, Georgia was finally able to get their oil from someone other than Russia (there's an oil pipeline that runs through the country now), so now Russia can't control Georgia any more (as in Russia can't threaten to cut off their energy supply) so they invaded.

Russia is trying to gain control over as many oil resources as they can, so they can have control over numerous other countries. I think something has to be done about it, and stepping in to help Georgia out is a good place to start.

But helping them out could actually very easily start us down the path to a 3rd World War. If other countries get involved in the matter, they'll start to take sides. This isn't like the war in Iraq. These aren't terrorists, they're soldiers.

And personally, I really like Georgia's President. I wish he was ours.

[TheEnglishman]

Eugine, on Aug 16 2008, 03:18 AM, said:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

lol omg. Fox News got pwned. They were so shocked when those women were defending the Russians. They OBVIOUSLY tried to cut them off.

Oh well. That's why it's always good to hear both sides to a story before you come to a conclusion. All the western media is protraying Russia as the big bully, when people on the ground are obviously feeling differently.

I liked how the woman at the end was told she had 30 seconds, yet they gave her about 15.

[Split Infinity]

Yeah I noticed that too.

[Neptune]

Toasty, on Aug 16 2008, 02:05 AM, said:

Apparently on of Fox News's reporters was caught in a firefight in Georgia.

Anyway, Georgia was finally able to get their oil from someone other than Russia (there's an oil pipeline that runs through the country now), so now Russia can't control Georgia any more (as in Russia can't threaten to cut off their energy supply) so they invaded.

Russia is trying to gain control over as many oil resources as they can, so they can have control over numerous other countries. I think something has to be done about it, and stepping in to help Georgia out is a good place to start.

But helping them out could actually very easily start us down the path to a 3rd World War. If other countries get involved in the matter, they'll start to take sides. This isn't like the war in Iraq. These aren't terrorists, they're soldiers.

And personally, I really like Georgia's President. I wish he was ours.

Well said. That is the exact thing what is played.

[Eugine]

http://i37.tinypic.com/2wnsp6w.jpg

lol. This was the only place I could post this. Americans =)

[Saturos S.]

Stupid Americans are always funnier then idiots from other parts of the world.

Toasty, on Aug 16 2008, 10:05 AM, said:

Apparently on of Fox News's reporters was caught in a firefight in Georgia.

A Dutch cameraman was killed in a bombing as well.

Toasty, on Aug 16 2008, 10:05 AM, said:

Anyway, Georgia was finally able to get their oil from someone other than Russia (there's an oil pipeline that runs through the country now), so now Russia can't control Georgia any more (as in Russia can't threaten to cut off their energy supply) so they invaded.

Russia is trying to gain control over as many oil resources as they can, so they can have control over numerous other countries. I think something has to be done about it, and stepping in to help Georgia out is a good place to start.

But helping them out could actually very easily start us down the path to a 3rd World War. If other countries get involved in the matter, they'll start to take sides. This isn't like the war in Iraq. These aren't terrorists, they're soldiers.

And personally, I really like Georgia's President. I wish he was ours.

That's why I think the EU actually did something good and by the EU I mean Sarkozy. America should be left out of the diplomatic and other efforts because they would only escalate it. But as stupid it was for Russia to attack Georgia like that. Georgia is guilty as well. A big part of the North wants to join Russia and are surpressed by the military there. Not exactly genocides but quite a few get killed there for strongly expressing their feelings of joining Russia again.

Russia should hurry up and get their troops out of there or otherwise they'll lose even more confidence from the EU. The most effective method would just be a boycot from Russia, but that would result in the EU losing their biggest gas and oil suppliers. The situation is just too delicate at the moment. So the best thing to do is wait and keep... demanding Russia to get their troops out of there while lobbying Georgia into joining in in the diplomatic efforts and getting Georgia to lower their weapons and perhaps free the north.

[Toasty]

Georgia isn't at fault for anything other than trying to free themselves of Russian control. The only reason their guns are raised is because Russia's got theirs raised too.

Involement by the United States may escalate things, but involvement from pretty much any other will escalate things aswell.

It's almost as though Russia is unintentionally using the threat of WWIII to prevent anyone from interfering.

Something has to be done by someone. We can't just sit back and let the Russians gobble up Georgia. However, we also can't afford a WWIII.

[Mallick]

EDIT: OH SHI- thought this was TRT, requesting balletion.

[Saturos S.]

Toasty, on Aug 23 2008, 07:28 AM, said:

Georgia isn't at fault for anything other than trying to free themselves of Russian control. The only reason their guns are raised is because Russia's got theirs raised too.

Involement by the United States may escalate things, but involvement from pretty much any other will escalate things aswell.

It's almost as though Russia is unintentionally using the threat of WWIII to prevent anyone from interfering.

Something has to be done by someone. We can't just sit back and let the Russians gobble up Georgia. However, we also can't afford a WWIII.

Point is, not everyone in Georgia wants to be freed of Russian control.

[Toasty]

Only because they're afraid of what Russia will do to them if they choose not to join.

[Eugine]

Toasty, on Aug 23 2008, 01:28 AM, said:

Georgia isn't at fault for anything other than trying to free themselves of Russian control. The only reason their guns are raised is because Russia's got theirs raised too.

Actually, Georgia is at fault.

There is a breakway providence called "South Ossetia", who wants independence from Georgia since they prefer closer ties to Russia. Georgia, who does not want South Ossetia's independence invaded South Ossetia to retake control. Unfortunately, Russia, who has closer ties to South Ossetia, responded with extreme force to protect their territory/interest crushing the Georgians.
At current, Russia is the wrong one since they are apparently not abiding by the cease fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Os...eline_of_events

So stop protraying Russia as the bad guy, and Georgia the good one. It is far from it. Georgia knew the consequences when they invaded South Ossetia, since Russia warned them.

Quote

Only because they're afraid of what Russia will do to them if they choose not to join.

Actually, they are more worried about Georgia.

Anyway, I do not really care what the media says, including BBC. I am on Russia side, and I think Georgia knew the consequences when they invaded.

It's like me personally angering the school bully, and not expecting to get beated up...

[Toasty]

It may not be smart to anger the school bully, but the bully shouldn't be allowed to bully people in the first place imo.

I guess I can agree that Georgia's not entirely innocent (to be frank, when it comes to an argument/etc. between two people/countries/etc. it's rare for one side to be entirely innocent), but having full control over Georgia and a number of other nations is definately on Russia's list. Georgia just want's control over itself, from my point of view.

[I'm Always BROKE]

It wouldn´t suprise me the least if this wasn´t Russia´s intention right from the beginning to make South Georgia rebel against the rest of the nation. In my opinion they are much better of with Georgia, if for the fact alone that Russia is too big and doesn´t care about it´s lands which they can´t earn money with.

Sure Russia can make loads of money of Georgia´s oil, but the money won´t go to the South Georgians... It will go to the government to create even more weapons of destruction and Russia will be feared even more!

People of South Georgia don´t be foolish, Russia´s deciving you!

[Gio]

If the people in south georgia love russia so much just move there.

And both countries are at fault, but Russia doesn't have the best track record when dealing with relations with other countries so of course most ppl are going to side with Georgia.

[Toasty]

Joel Rosenburg was on Glenn Beck again today, and he pointed something out that's kind of interesting. He's not a bible thumper or anything, but he's researched current events and compared them to predictions in the bible and what not. Anyway, a verse in the bible (somewhere in Ezekiel) predicted that Russia would make arms treaties with other countries like Iran, who have been wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the map for as long as anyone can remember. Well, if you wanted to go straight to Israel from Russia, you'd have to go through Georgia. I wish I could find a clip from the show so I could quote exactly what Rosenburg said, but since it aired today, it'll proably be a little while before it gets onto the internet. I just thought that was an interesting observation.

[Golden Legacy]

I was going to post my thoughts on the conflict, but then I read:

Toasty, on Aug 26 2008, 05:23 AM, said:

Joel Rosenburg was on Glenn Beck again today, and he pointed something out that's kind of interesting. He's not a bible thumper or anything, but he's researched current events and compared them to predictions in the bible and what not. Anyway, a verse in the bible (somewhere in Ezekiel) predicted that Russia would make arms treaties with other countries like Iran, who have been wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the map for as long as anyone can remember. Well, if you wanted to go straight to Israel from Russia, you'd have to go through Georgia. I wish I could find a clip from the show so I could quote exactly what Rosenburg said, but since it aired today, it'll proably be a little while before it gets onto the internet. I just thought that was an interesting observation.

And ended up laughing.


EDIT: Fine, I'll mention something. I think the conflict is being blown out of proportion by the media. Just another excuse to try and villify Russia and perpetuate some "grander conflict". Though Putin and Medvedev have certainly been working on increasing Russia's rapport and world impression these past years.

[Toasty]

The media blows practically everything out of proportion. That said, Russia Putin is pretty freaking evil. He's also powerhungry, and he really dsilikes the US (and her allies). That's not blown out of proporton in the slightest.

[Golden Legacy]

Toasty, on Aug 26 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

The media blows practically everything out of proportion. That said, Russia Putin is pretty freaking evil. He's also powerhungry, and he really dsilikes the US (and her allies). That's not blown out of proporton in the slightest.

He and the near entirety of every other nation and leader in the world. No surprise there.

[Toasty]

And that's exactly what the media tells everybody too.

Obviously there's people who hate us, but if everyone in the world hated us, we wouldn't have any allies.

Russia poses a very serious threat, because they're selling weapons to people who genuinely want to kill us. That includes both you and me.

[Saturos S.]

In Europe we don't hate you guys, we just think you're stuck-up, overpatriotic, ignorant, war-hungry, arrogant people.

Apart from that, America is okay.

[Toasty]

You're just jealouse because we walk our dogs with our cars.


<_<

[Saturos S.]

Which in turn contributes to the idea that Americans are fat and lazy.

[Toasty]

Dang. XD

Amazingly enough, I'm not fat. I eat a lot (not nessescarily junkfood, but mostly cereal), and don't get a lot of exercise. Yet I'm 5'5" and 116lbs.

[My Best Wishes]

Wow Toasty, you're amazing. You eat and don't get fat, like most boys your age. Shame all of America isn't you.

[TheEnglishman]

Saturos Striker, on Aug 27 2008, 07:38 AM, said:

In Europe we don't hate you guys, we just think you're stuck-up, overpatriotic, ignorant, war-hungry, arrogant people.

Apart from that, America is okay.

Agreed, especially with the overpatriotic stuff. I hate hearing people yell 'God Bless Americuh!!'

[Golden Legacy]

Toasty, on Aug 26 2008, 11:50 PM, said:

And that's exactly what the media tells everybody too.

Obviously there's people who hate us, but if everyone in the world hated us, we wouldn't have any allies.

Russia poses a very serious threat, because they're selling weapons to people who genuinely want to kill us. That includes both you and me.

President Bush: "All 'dem Iraqis have got 'em nuclear weapons and are helping the turrorists, let's get 'em!"

You: "Those Russians got those weapons and givin' it to the bad people, let's get 'em!"

Saturos Striker, on Aug 27 2008, 02:38 AM, said:

In Europe we don't hate you guys, we just think you're stuck-up, overpatriotic, ignorant, war-hungry, arrogant people.

Summed it up nicely.

Me111, on Aug 27 2008, 04:56 AM, said:

Agreed, especially with the overpatriotic stuff. I hate hearing people yell 'God Bless Americuh!!'

I literally choke everytime I hear or see that phrase. UGH.
Which is also why I refuse to say the pledge.


But at any rate, we all know where these discussions about the USA end up, so let's focus back.
Georgia and Russia.

So apparently Russia has recognized the independence of two of of those regions in Georgia, South Ossetia and a second one whose name escapes me at the moment. Thoughts?

[Saturos S.]

Abkhazia or something.

Good thing they recognise them I suppose. But they better not come knocking at Russia's/EU's door for financial support. At the moment I find all money being sent there to help the victims a waste.

The UN in there to unify the world and resolve conflicts between countries (and more...) But each time some region wants to become independent it just creates more barriers. Peace can be obtained in two ways, one being unification, people accepting and tolerating each other. The other is total isolation, not meddling in other's affairs, not caring about other's affairs, not helping other's. I'd rather see the first happening.

[Ironsight]

Golden Legacy, on Aug 27 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

Which is also why I refuse to say the pledge.

I hope you don't plan on protesting to the Supreme Court about it like that one moron did a couple of years ago.

[Mallick]

ITT:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn191/Mallicklocal/1210068931474.jpg

[Aquamarine]

I love you Anon. *Kisses him* I remember at the demonstrations against an independent Kosovo here, people were burning American flags everywhere. I'm sad that I didn't do that... I didn't think of getting an American flag for the occasion. However, I'm extremely proud to have thrown a couple of rocks at the American embassy and breaking a window on it. The embassy ended up burning and someone even died, perhaps someone remembers it, it was all over the news on CNN and other channels. Back on topic though.

Toasty, people like you are the exact reason that people hate America so much. And yes, in this part of Europe people really do hate... No wait, not hate, despise America. You are only evidence for me that Americans are intelectually inferior to all other countries, completely brain washed and unable to form their own opinions on any matter.

However, I'm once again impressed at how open-minded GL is. I guess even the USA must have a couple of people like him...

[Legolastom]

"A United States Marine was attending some college courses between assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was a vowed atheist and a member of the ACLU.


One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, 'God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes.' The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, 'Here I am God. I 'm still waiting.' It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Marine got out of his Chair, went up to th e professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold.
The Marine went back to his seat and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked and stunned and sat there looking on in silence.


The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Marine and asked, 'What the hell is the matter with you? Why did you do that?' The Marine calmly replied, 'God was too busy today protecting America's soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid **** and act like an asshole. So, He sent me."

Like America now Aqua?

[Aquamarine]

Wait a minute... Did you just say... America's protecting me?

There's no point in talking to stupid morons like you.

[Legolastom]

No I was trying to get you to rage.

[Aquamarine]

Ah, I see. Well you obviously succeeded, I would say. :P

[Saturos S.]

Aquamarine, on Aug 28 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

I love you Anon. *Kisses him* I remember at the demonstrations against an independent Kosovo here, people were burning American flags everywhere. I'm sad that I didn't do that... I didn't think of getting an American flag for the occasion. However, I'm extremely proud to have thrown a couple of rocks at the American embassy and breaking a window on it. The embassy ended up burning and someone even died, perhaps someone remembers it, it was all over the news on CNN and other channels. Back on topic though.

Toasty, people like you are the exact reason that people hate America so much. And yes, in this part of Europe people really do hate... No wait, not hate, despise America. You are only evidence for me that Americans are intelectually inferior to all other countries, completely brain washed and unable to form their own opinions on any matter.

However, I'm once again impressed at how open-minded GL is. I guess even the USA must have a couple of people like him...

Though the West European countries will frown upon your extreme/weak actions. Violence is just showing how powerless you really are. Attacking embassies shows just how political unstable your country is.

[Eugine]

Golden Legacy, on Aug 27 2008, 01:32 PM, said:

Which is also why I refuse to say the pledge.

Disliking the Bush Administration is one thing, but refusing to say your own pledge is another.
I hope you're not unpatriotic =(

But anyway, why the hell should USA care if Europe doesn't like them or not? It's not like America depends on Europe. Last time I checked, it was the other way around. Russia should just cut of your gas supply btw =)

Anyway, must I say -
America is the greatest and most generous country the Earth has ever seen. The place where anyone can succeed regardless of colour, sex, religion, and what not. America is the most diversed country arguably (cuz of Brazil). Yes, there tension somewhat between different cultures, but I know that success in USA is more guaranteed than anywhere in the world.

I don't really care if Obama loses this election, but seeing him elected as the democratic nominee has made me see how far USA has come. Far more than any other country. And for anyone who says anything bad, about USA. **** you cuz, Barack would have never been as successful in your country! Wooo. Black man may well be the leader of the free world! Only in America can this happen =)
Long live USA =)

This ends my incoherrent rant.

[Saturos S.]

Eugine, on Aug 28 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

Disliking the Bush Administration is one thing, but refusing to say your own pledge is another.
I hope you're not unpatriotic =(

But anyway, why the hell should USA care if Europe doesn't like them or not? It's not like America depends on Europe. Last time I checked, it was the other way around. Russia should just cut of your gas supply btw =)

Anyway, must I say -
America is the greatest and most generous country the Earth has ever seen. The place where anyone can succeed regardless of colour, sex, religion, and what not. America is the most diversed country arguably (cuz of Brazil). Yes, there tension somewhat between different cultures, but I know that success in USA is more guaranteed than anywhere in the world.

I don't really care if Obama loses this election, but seeing him elected as the democratic nominee has made me see how far USA has come. Far more than any other country. And for anyone who says anything bad, about USA. **** you cuz, Barack would have never been as successful in your country! Wooo. Black man may well be the leader of the free world! Only in America can this happen =)
Long live USA =)

This ends my incoherrent rant.

Saturos Striker, on Aug 27 2008, 08:38 AM, said:

In Europe we don't hate you guys, we just think you're stuck-up, overpatriotic, ignorant, war-hungry, arrogant people.

Apart from that, America is okay.

Last time I checked your economy is basically on life support, our's just stopped growing. Believe me, Europe doesn't need America anymore then America needs Europe. America's had it's golden age, China and Japan's economy our going to take the leading role in the next 50 years. The EU is starting to lean more to Russia and China then the USA.

The reason you people are so diverse is because you're all immigrants. So much that closing the Mexican border could be considered hypocrisy. Tell the people in Iraq about your genouristy and greatness. Anyone could succeed in America, but the price of failure is much bigger then in Europe due to your lack of social services. Your health/unemployment/warveteran services are pathetic compared to West Europe's standards. The differences in America aren't that good. The poor in America really are poor, the rich really are rich. Kind of rings a 3rd world country bell.

I know I'm pretty biased, but not half as much as most Europeans. I'm just trying to force some European common sense in the face blantant American stupidity.

[Eugine]

I'm not American though =)

I'm gonna respond to you after GL posts btw.

[Golden Legacy]

Eugine, on Aug 28 2008, 02:02 PM, said:

Disliking the Bush Administration is one thing, but refusing to say your own pledge is another.
I hope you're not unpatriotic =(

Being patriotic doesn't mean mindlessly reciting an incantation daily.
If you must know, the main reason why I don't say the pledge is because of the words "Under God". Separation of church and state, I refuse (and shouldn't be forced to) accept that God has ordained the United States as its benevelent land.

Granted, if the words were taken out, I'd probably refuse to say it anyway. Most of the people at my high school didn't, we simply didn't bother. But those who did did so and it was fine.

That's called tolerance.

Quote

But anyway, why the hell should USA care if Europe doesn't like them or not? It's not like America depends on Europe. Last time I checked, it was the other way around. Russia should just cut of your gas supply btw =)

It's a dangerous concept to think it's perfectly all right that other nations dislike us. Don't you think they have a reason for it? And even so, isn't the point to create alliances around the world, not alienating everyone?

Quote

Anyway, must I say -
America is the greatest and most generous country the Earth has ever seen. The place where anyone can succeed regardless of colour, sex, religion, and what not. America is the most diversed country arguably (cuz of Brazil). Yes, there tension somewhat between different cultures, but I know that success in USA is more guaranteed than anywhere in the world.

No one is denying that the USA has many freedoms and is without a doubt among the most diverse places in the world.

However, take it from someone who's lived here, there are some flaws with that impression:

1) This "diversity" isn't spread through the USA. It isn't homogenous. You see diverse cultures, peoples, ethnicities, sexual orientations, etc. concentrated in the urban areas mainly. Places like NYC (where I'm from), LA, Boston (where I went to school), etc.

The rest of the nation is largely the typical "American redneck". Now, it's wrong to generalize, of course it is, but the truth is America IS mostly white - and it's there that much of the racism is concentrated in.

2) Now to start being critical of Bush, his administration has removed some of the most fundamental rights such as habeus corpus.

3) America's arrogance is what's frustrating for me and many other people. Yes, the USA has many fine things about it, but when people start spitting out the "God is watching over America" nonsense, that the USA is "the shining beacon of the world", I instinctively put my foot down.

Quote

I don't really care if Obama loses this election, but seeing him elected as the democratic nominee has made me see how far USA has come. Far more than any other country. And for anyone who says anything bad, about USA. **** you cuz, Barack would have never been as successful in your country! Wooo. Black man may well be the leader of the free world! Only in America can this happen =)
Long live USA =)

Leader of the free world? That doesn't seem like exaggerating the USA at all?

Also, yes, it is great that Barack Obama has gotten to where he is. I am immensely proud of him and proud of the support he's received. A nation founded by slaveowners, and a black man nearly ascending to the presidency?

That's deep stuff. If there's anything that's salvaging my faith in the American people, it's this.

But when you hear about attempted murder on Obama already, it kind of disrupts all that. =/

[Caael]

Eugine, on Aug 28 2008, 07:02 PM, said:

I don't really care if Obama loses this election, but seeing him elected as the democratic nominee has made me see how far USA has come. Far more than any other country. And for anyone who says anything bad, about USA. **** you cuz, Barack would have never been as successful in your country! Wooo. Black man may well be the leader of the free world! Only in America can this happen =)
Long live USA =)

This ends my incoherrent rant.

There are no black politicians in England . It's not because we dont let them, they just dont want to be anything to do with it, which is wise on their part.

[Eugine]

I understand you GL. You should have elaborated more I guess. Personally, I hardly say our pledge at my secondary school, not because I 'refused' to say it, but because we said it daily.
If I ever have to represent my country, I'll say it proudly infront of everyone though.

Anyway, thank God you elaborated. I thought you were one of those angry liberals =), and I understand your reasoning.

And GL, what country doesn't have 'God' in their pledge?
Ang lol, I placed "leader of the free world" purposely to see your reaction lmao. It annoys me also when people say it.

But anyway, I got to go, sry. I'll finish my reply later to you and SS.

[Eugine]

SS, last time I checked the US economy grew by 3.3%. I do not doubt America is losing its leading role around the world, but to write it out now is far from wise, because you will be surprised.

Why do I say that? Let us look at this forum. Do not underestimate GL, Max, Icy and the many great Americans of this board. They represent the next generation of America, and to write them out, and the American people as a whole is foolish because I personally see bright futures for them. They will surprise you. I see bright futures for the entire world actually.
Within the next 50 years, GL and others will be the future of America, and I see great people, solving great challenges. In 50 years, I see America still leading the world, because if I am right, GL and company will not disappoint.

There are many countries who are ready to be the next superpower. China and Russia comes to mind everytime, not so much Japan. When I look at their current policies, China and Russia will be terrible superpowers, and I hope your statement that the EU is leaning towards Russia and China is wrong.

Regarding your second paragraph SS, all countries have laws, and they should be enforced. This isn't the 1800s, when everyone were able to boat in, and boat out of USA at their calling. I could write my stance on illegal immigration here, but it'll take a while. My views concisely: I support increasing legal immigration, and cracking down, and eliminating illegal immgration btw. And, if you live in a glass house, please do not throw stones. Europe has far tougher immigration laws than USA. I remember reading an article where Italy were criticised by the world and the Vatican for its insane illegal immigration crackdown policies.

Anyway, Americans have already recognised that you speak the truth with your second paragraph, and are currently having intense internal debates on how to go from here. The next President have enormous challenging problems, and I honestly believe they can be solved.
Like one American famously says, yes they can =)

[Saturos S.]

The state China and Russia are in now, I agree that America is the best superpower option. I'd love Europe to have that position but we've had our time from well... since we set up the world economy till the 1900's.

The American economy's continued growth is due government action. The government invested 100 billion (maybe more) into the bank market to prevent the market from collapsing. The government is keeping oil prices low with investments and own oil reserves. They've been spending way more money then they've been earning for years. I'm not sure the last figures were on America's depts but they can't keep it up forever. They've been bleeding for the last ten years really. China will get the leading role and I think it will be in 50 years or, that I'd live to see it. That is if no wars intervene the process, or maybe quicken it.

As for EU immigration laws being a lot harsher, they probably are. But then we're not trying to put up a multi-cultural, everyone can make it big image. Still thousands of Africans risk their lifes trying to cross the Mediterranean to make it to Europe. They arrive half dead, and without identification, a country can't kick them out. So Europe's got their fair share of immigrants as well.

As for good Americans on the rise to lead the country. Sure there are great people in America, but there are great people in Russia, China and everywhere else in the world for that matter. But the question is, do those people come to power to make a change. I don't see anyone standing up in Russia or America to make that change. Not with the policies the countries are now in. Both of them will have to face serious changes if they want to realise the potential they have.

Though all this really depends if the planet remains oil addicted or not. The one that invents a permanent, long-lasting energy source that can replace oil will win... for 100 years or so. So those brilliant people all over the world could make change by means of science rather then political aspirations.

I wanted to conclude with that and go to bed, but just wanted to stick in that I don't think McCain or Obama can make the change needed. Face it, you guys need a Margaret Thatcher or a Reagan. Those were wonder doctors.

[Eugine]

Wow, we sure did go off topic =(

European countries have no backbone to be a superpower, and is far too dependent on foreign countries to be a superpower. Even as a whole (the EU), Europe is spineless.
China is far too large in population, and has way too many problems to be as great of a superpower as USA. Yes, China may surpass USA economically in GDP measure soon, but remember China has 1.3 billion people.
Russia, will never be a super power without remaking the Soviet Union, and mostly, if not all, past Soviet Union members have closer ties to USA than Russia.
With this, I honestly see USA continuing to be superpower for my entire lifetime. And goodness, who wants those damn countries to be superpowers? I really hope this never happens in my lifetime. It will happen eventually... All nations rise and fall, I just pray to God it doesn't happen soon =(

I can write a list of problems China and Russia have. I suggest kicking Russia out of the G8 =)

[TheEnglishman]

Eugine, on Aug 29 2008, 12:06 AM, said:

I suggest kicking Russia out of the G8 =)

That would be like kicking the school bully in the balls.

[Golden Legacy]

I ****ing hate Republicans. UGH.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7586605.stm

A ploy it would seem. No wonder the conflict's been hugely exaggerated by the Bush administration.

[Ironsight]

Aquamarine, on Aug 28 2008, 02:27 AM, said:

I love you Anon. *Kisses him* I remember at the demonstrations against an independent Kosovo here, people were burning American flags everywhere. I'm sad that I didn't do that... I didn't think of getting an American flag for the occasion. However, I'm extremely proud to have thrown a couple of rocks at the American embassy and breaking a window on it. The embassy ended up burning and someone even died, perhaps someone remembers it, it was all over the news on CNN and other channels. Back on topic though.

Where can I find a "raised eyebrow" emoticon?

[Eugine]

Golden Legacy, on Aug 28 2008, 07:52 PM, said:

I ****ing hate Republicans. UGH.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7586605.stm

A ploy it would seem. No wonder the conflict's been hugely exaggerated by the Bush administration.

You know, this wouldn't surprise me. Actually, when the situation unfolded I said to myself "How convenient for McCain."

Anyway, someone revive the US election topic. I wanna discuss politics! I'm in love with Obama again =)

[Saturos S.]

Eugine, on Aug 29 2008, 01:06 AM, said:

Wow, we sure did go off topic =(

European countries have no backbone to be a superpower, and is far too dependent on foreign countries to be a superpower. Even as a whole (the EU), Europe is spineless.
China is far too large in population, and has way too many problems to be as great of a superpower as USA. Yes, China may surpass USA economically in GDP measure soon, but remember China has 1.3 billion people.
Russia, will never be a super power without remaking the Soviet Union, and mostly, if not all, past Soviet Union members have closer ties to USA than Russia.
With this, I honestly see USA continuing to be superpower for my entire lifetime. And goodness, who wants those damn countries to be superpowers? I really hope this never happens in my lifetime. It will happen eventually... All nations rise and fall, I just pray to God it doesn't happen soon =(

I can write a list of problems China and Russia have. I suggest kicking Russia out of the G8 =)

We prefer to call ourselves neutral.. :P

As for going off-topic, in the bigger picture it's about Russia trying to keep a grip on their old oil countries. So it is kind of of relevant.

[Toasty]

watch, on Aug 27 2008, 12:54 AM, said:

Wow Toasty, you're amazing. You eat and don't get fat, like most boys your age. Shame all of America isn't you.

Most other boys my age that aren't fat actually get exercise.

And if the US government was keeping our gas prices low, then we'd have a crapload of oil refineries. Unfortunately, all those global warming nutjobs are preventing us from having cheap gas. Well, that and the over-inflated dollar. As soon as the dollar's worth begins to rise, gas will become cheaper.

A superpower needs a huge military, and lots of cash. The military part comming first (though granted, it takes cash to build a military). China could very easily become a wolrd superpower if they caught up to us in terms of technological advancements. They've got the funds, and they've got the people. They wont become a superpower anytime soon because of their problems and lack of technological military advancements.

England just isn't vast enough. Though if a number of European countries got together, it might be possible. However, it'd be really hard to keep things stable with the imminent quarreling between each country.

Russia is the closest right now in my opinon, because they're gaining the funds, they have few problems, and their leaders have the ambition (and want) to make Russia a superpower. One reason why they're going after all these countries (they're not just targeting Georgia, they've been threating other countries too) is so that they can boost their funds. Making allies with countries (like Iran) which also hate the current world superpower (the US), only helps them in the long run aswell. Sooner or later (if they haven't already), they're going to start to build up their military.



China and Russia have better chances than England or Europe as a whole, but they both would be like dictators. If anyone here thinks that the US is too invasive in foreign affairs, you'll be begging for us to take back our title if Russia or China ever take over. Believe me. England wouldn't be so bad (probably even a bit better, though they'd probably help other countries less than the US does, and just stay out of everybody else's buisness in general), but it's chances are far less than the other two.


That's my take on it all. I obviously want America to stay in charge though.

[Saturos S.]

No disagreeing on that. Europe's golden ages were all due to a huge technological advancement compared to the rest of the world. Who was in charge in Europe came down to militairy and traderoute superiority.

America being the best choice is just the best of 2-3 evils.

[Toasty]

Well I wouldn't exactly call us evil. <.<;


Though I do think it's annoying how everybody always gets mad at us when we try to help, telling us to "get out of other countries affairs," and then turn around and get mad at us when we choose to stay on the sidelines.

The US also gives the most money to foreign aid out of any other nation, and people continue to complain that we don't give enough.

Granted, we're far from perfect and we can be kinda like a bully sometimes, but we still do more good for the world than even the UN.

[Saturos S.]

Toasty, on Aug 30 2008, 06:54 PM, said:

Well I wouldn't exactly call us evil. <.<;


Though I do think it's annoying how everybody always gets mad at us when we try to help, telling us to "get out of other countries affairs," and then turn around and get mad at us when we choose to stay on the sidelines.

The US also gives the most money to foreign aid out of any other nation, and people continue to complain that we don't give enough.

Granted, we're far from perfect and we can be kinda like a bully sometimes, but we still do more good for the world than even the UN.

When did that happen?

[Toasty]

I believe when we didn't help some country out when they got hit by a hurricane.

[TheEnglishman]

I don't think the US could justify 'liberating' a country that was hit by a natural disaster. Just say they're hiding weapons and you'll be fine.

[Toasty]

No, we offered to send some national gurad guys over to help clean things up and stuff, an the country refused. Then everyone was like "Y NOT HELPING?" And the US said "b-but, they didn't want us to!"

[TheEnglishman]

I worry if you think the response from the rest of the world would be 'Y NOT HELPING?'

[Saturos S.]

^ Might I note that your sig is quite ironic in this conversation.

[Toasty]

Oh, well thanks. :P

My point is that the media and the people seem to get mad at us no matter what we do. Granted, we can't make everyone happy, but it's getting kind of rediculous.

[EDIT] lol SS XD

[TheEnglishman]

Saturos Striker, on Aug 30 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

^ Might I note that your sig is quite ironic in this conversation.

Ironic? If anything it supports me. He's saying 'Don't listen to me, listen to Me111.'
And I don't blame various media outlets for not liking the idea that America needs to send their army into their countries for 'aid'.

[Toasty]

Whenever we help, the media complains we're not doing enough, or that we're only hurting the people there (which is never true. We may have some soldiers who go out of line, but we have 10 more for every one of them that are doing what they're supposed to be doing). Whenever we don't help, they complain that we're not acting like the world super power.

And when we send troops in to aid a country (and I'm not talking about liberating it, which most Iraqi people are thankful for by the way), it's to help clean up the mess, fix things, and provide supplies to people. We've done that almost every time a major natural disaster has struck a country. The exceptions being the few times (I only know of one) where the leaders of a country refused our help because they didn't want to sacrifice their pride.