[Drizzy Drake]

How would you do it? Would go with the oldskool method of getting on one knee, or would you do it more modern, like at a baseball game on the titantron?

Or would you get creative?

Discuss.

[Mallick]

If she were a deep sleeper, I would probably slip the ring on her finger while she's asleep.

[Split Infinity]

Just one problem...

Marriage means kids.

[Lemontime]

Not necessarily.

[Split Infinity]

But it removes the only obstacle stopping her from wanting them. :D

[Caael]

I'm not having kids unless by the time i'm married i'm a different person. Cant stand the little buggers.

Anyway, i'd be unique and do something crazy, like throw it at her or something.

I dont know :D


Skidz, why did you make this? Are you planning on proposing to your gf? :P

[Saturos S.]

Classy restaurant, and propose at dessert.

Probably won't get on my knee though, I'd just say I've got an injury there.

[Golden Legacy]

On a private, hot air balloon, crusing along the sunset horizon.
Later I can tell people that proposing to her "lifted me up".


(it's up to you to figure out if I'm serious or not)

[TheEnglishman]

My sister's boyfriend proposed to her in Turkey as the sun set. He didn't get on his knee though.

[Drizzy Drake]

Caael, on Sep 5 2008, 11:22 AM, said:

I'm not having kids unless by the time i'm married i'm a different person. Cant stand the little buggers.

Anyway, i'd be unique and do something crazy, like throw it at her or something.

I dont know :D
Skidz, why did you make this? Are you planning on proposing to your gf? :P

Take this topic however you want to take it.

[Aquamarine]

Golden Legacy, on Sep 5 2008, 05:35 PM, said:

On a private, hot air balloon, crusing along the sunset horizon.
Later I can tell people that proposing to her "lifted me up".
(it's up to you to figure out if I'm serious or not)

You're one of those girls who daydreams about their wedding day, aren't you?

Man, thinking about proposing and being married... It just makes me feel sick. Don't get me wrong, I want to be married and have children some day, but thinking about it now, imagining all the freedoms I have taken away in an instant... It's horrible!

Fuuck it, I'm not getting married until I'm at least 35.

[Split Infinity]

But you see that's the problem, isn't it? You have to have kids sometime, otherwise you've wasted your entire life, but if you wait too long, you'll just be some old fart who can't even play catch at the park. Hm...

[Ironsight]

Split Infinity, on Sep 5 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

But you see that's the problem, isn't it? You have to have kids sometime, otherwise you've wasted your entire life, but if you wait too long, you'll just be some old fart who can't even play catch at the park. Hm...

That's a matter of personal opinion.

[Split Infinity]

Genetically speaking, of course.

[Drizzy Drake]

Aquamarine, on Sep 5 2008, 01:33 PM, said:

You're one of those girls who daydreams about their wedding day, aren't you?

Man, thinking about proposing and being married... It just makes me feel sick. Don't get me wrong, I want to be married and have children some day, but thinking about it now, imagining all the freedoms I have taken away in an instant... It's horrible!

Fuuck it, I'm not getting married until I'm at least 35.

marriage =/= kids. just because you get married at say 22-25, doesn't mean you're life is now done. i know some 30 year olds who still do their thing, and they're married.

[Aquamarine]

I know marriage =/= kids, but I'm hoping my marriage = kids. I'm also hoping my marriage will be a happy and successful one, without me and my partner having to sleep with other people. What a shame 95% of married people have had at least one affair... It's practically impossible to avoid it.

And I'm NOT getting married at 22-25. I already said, not before I'm 35.

[Split Infinity]

Is it really that hard not to have sex with other people? Sounds pretty weak.

[Caael]

Surely just marry the right person and there wont be a need to sex up other people. If you feel the need to have an affair, then you obviously married the wrong person.

[Aquamarine]

Look, it's easy for us to say that, we don't know what it's like being with the same woman for years and years... and years and years and years. Just imagine it. 20 or so years of waking up next to the same person, having sex with the same person... The love in every marriage slowly dies down, that's inevitable. And people have needs. I was surprised when I found out that in almost every marriage at least one of the people has an affair. But that's just how it is.

[Toasty]

That may be true, but there are people, even couples, who stay true to their significant other. I think it's safe to say that none of my christian friend's parents have cheated on the other. Though my cousin-in-law whom I don't believe I've ever met, has.

Anyway, I'd like to propose in front of a sunset.

[Split Infinity]

So you can get straight to business if she says yes? :P

[Lightning Star]

Guys, take it from a girls perspective: if you do nothing else, get down on your knee. Honestly, it's like "oh here's a fancy restaurant and a ring" When you do the knee thing, it's like "I care enough about you to get down on my knees and beg you to be with me for the rest of my life"

That's what every girl wants.

But me? Marriage? Hah, you're kidding me, right? I'm so not getting married. They hardly work out nowadays, you end up stuck to someone who will probably change and not be the same person you married 10, 20 years ago, and then there's the kids issue. Oh my god. I HATE kids. And my luck, I'll get stuck with a guy who at first, doesn't want kids, but then will beg me to have his babies, and then I'll be stuck raising a kid by myself when he leaves me.

So, the fool proof way to avoid all that: Don't get married. :]

[Tasuki]

I wouldn't plan anything but the day and see how it turns out.

[Golden Legacy]

On the issue of kids, I've always wanted to settle down and start a family. Where and how the lifestyle would be is beyond me (I've always wanted to become a sort of scholar giving lectures all over the world, don't know how feasible that is). But, I've known people who despite getting married and even have children continue with their education and their careers, and happily too.

I love kids personally and I would want to feel like I've truly done and raised some sort of legacy, had my life lead up to something, you know?

But, falling in love with the right girl is what awaits now. And finding her.

Tasuki, on Sep 6 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

I wouldn't plan anything but the day and see how it turns out.

'atta boy, that's how real men do it.

[Toasty]

Golden Legacy, on Sep 6 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

I've always wanted to become a sort of scholar giving lectures all over the world, don't know how feasible that is

I've thought about that too. I spend more than my fair share of time thinking about a lot of things, and I've learned many things that I wish to share with other people.

As for kids, I want one boy and one girl.

[Nosferatu]

Cheating is ****ing stupid. I don't want a kid that will end up liking rap or that ****. If they did, I don't feel like commiting fillicide.

Thank you and good night.

Edit: Also Aqua, I hope you end up alone because of that. $10 on it.

[Aquamarine]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 7 2008, 02:26 AM, said:

That may be true, but there are people, even couples, who stay true to their significant other. I think it's safe to say that none of my christian friend's parents have cheated on the other. Though my cousin-in-law whom I don't believe I've ever met, has.

Anyway, I'd like to propose in front of a sunset.

You mean, because they're Christian? It makes no bloody difference what religion, race, nationality or gender they are; it's most likely going to happen. For a man/woman who has slept with one person for years, it is practically impossible for them to turn away when even only a relatively attractive person of the opposite gender wants to sleep with them. You may think it's easy to turn down someone who's doing their best to get you into bed, because all that's enough is "will power and a strong sense for moral crap," but it's not.

Many marraiges don't brake up because someone has had an affair. Perhaps the other person cares too much for their children who live under the same roof as the two of them to get divorced. Or maybe the other person never even finds out. There are TOO many marriages where the significant other doesn't learn of his/her loved one's betrayal.

Also, you have to understand that even though this stuff happens very often, it doesn't mean that the person who slept with somebody else doesn't love his/her partner anymore. Love is one thing, sex is another entirely.

I don't condone everything I've said; I think it's awful that it happens so often. I honestly hope my marriage is one without any affairs and I'm very much against this stuff. However, I'm just telling you how it is. I at first didn't believe it at all for a very long time. Now though, I see that it's all true.

[Saturos S.]

Aquamarine, on Sep 7 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

Many marraiges don't brake up because someone has had an affair. Perhaps the other person cares too much for their children who live under the same roof as the two of them to get divorced. Or maybe the other person never even finds out. There are TOO many marriages where the significant other doesn't learn of his/her loved one's betrayal.

Also, you have to understand that even though this stuff happens very often, it doesn't mean that the person who slept with somebody else doesn't love his/her partner anymore. Love is one thing, sex is another entirely.

I don't condone everything I've said; I think it's awful that it happens so often. I honestly hope my marriage is one without any affairs and I'm very much against this stuff. However, I'm just telling you how it is. I at first didn't believe it at all for a very long time. Now though, I see that it's all true.

The main problem is, I think, that modern society is so sex-orientated. People are taking up wrong role-models. They think that love is the highest thing there is. So they keep on looking for love, sex and affection. It's partly human natures but one way or the other modern society seems to magnifying that effect.

In the '90's and before that societies were never that focused on appearance. Glitter and glamour is dominating more than ever before. Since look like a filmstar seems to have become the standard among the coming generations. I'm as much as a part of that as anyone else, maybe it's just peer pressure getting to my head this.

But fact is, divorces have gone up, but most marriages make or break on the point of "the love is gone." Surely, the giddy happy love feeling is gone after so many years of being together, but I think I'd just try and see my partner as a friend to get old with instead of looking for an alternative lover.

[David]

I'm an old-school kind of guy, so I would almost definitely go for the whole "down on one knee" thing. I think it's more romantic and meaningful than asking someone to marry you on some marquee at a sports event, in any case.

[Toasty]

Aquamarine, on Sep 7 2008, 10:05 AM, said:

You mean, because they're Christian? It makes no bloody difference what religion, race, nationality or gender they are; it's most likely going to happen. For a man/woman who has slept with one person for years, it is practically impossible for them to turn away when even only a relatively attractive person of the opposite gender wants to sleep with them. You may think it's easy to turn down someone who's doing their best to get you into bed, because all that's enough is "will power and a strong sense for moral crap," but it's not.

Many marraiges don't brake up because someone has had an affair. Perhaps the other person cares too much for their children who live under the same roof as the two of them to get divorced. Or maybe the other person never even finds out. There are TOO many marriages where the significant other doesn't learn of his/her loved one's betrayal.

Also, you have to understand that even though this stuff happens very often, it doesn't mean that the person who slept with somebody else doesn't love his/her partner anymore. Love is one thing, sex is another entirely.

I don't condone everything I've said; I think it's awful that it happens so often. I honestly hope my marriage is one without any affairs and I'm very much against this stuff. However, I'm just telling you how it is. I at first didn't believe it at all for a very long time. Now though, I see that it's all true.

Not because they're christian, but because it's obvious that they're still in love with eachother.

I'm not blind or stupid, so quit telling me something I already know. But let me tell you something you probaly don't know. Most relationships which are built around christianity last longer than those that don't.

And I can honsetly say that I'd never cheat on my wife. I don't really care if you don't believe me. Now whether or not she would cheat on me is another question. One that won't need to be answered for quite some time.

[David]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 7 2008, 05:21 PM, said:

Most relationships which are built around christianity last longer than those that don't.

I agree with this statement, as the Christian faith tends to instill values and an integrity into it's followers that doesn't condone such actions. Someone brought up in a Christian household who is taught moral values is surely more likely to stick with them as they get older. That is not to say that those not of the Christian faith are without values, or that all Christians are saints.

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 7 2008, 05:21 PM, said:

And I can honsetly say that I'd never cheat on my wife. I don't really care if you don't believe me. Now whether or not she would cheat on me is another question. One that won't need to be answered for quite some time.

Well, hopefully before you marry someone you'll get to know them well enough to have an idea of their values, and you'll be less likely to marry someone who is likely to be unfaithful. :P

[Drizzy Drake]

ignorance is ignorant

[Toasty]

Sex craze is sex crazed.

[Nosferatu]

Thread quickly turns to bull**** religion topic. Have fun.

[David]

Nosferatu, on Sep 7 2008, 08:55 PM, said:

Thread quickly turns to bull**** religion topic. Have fun.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I was just merely agreeing with what AT said...I wasn't trying to preach or anything...sorry if I got off topic. That wasn't what I intended. :P

[Ironsight]

David, on Sep 7 2008, 09:22 PM, said:

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I was just merely agreeing with what AT said...I wasn't trying to preach or anything...sorry if I got off topic. That wasn't what I intended. :P

It's Toasty actually. He and I just lost a round of Russian Roulette.

[Toasty]

Yeah, I'm Toasty and that's Darksword. DS for short.

[EDIT] And we're both male.

[David]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 7 2008, 11:42 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm Toasty and that's Darksword. DS for short.

[EDIT] And we're both male.

Ok. Well, all the same, I apologize. I didn't mean to ruin the topic.

[Ironsight]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 7 2008, 09:42 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm Toasty and that's Darksword. DS for short.

[EDIT] And we're both male.

Nice save.

[Toasty]

David, on Sep 7 2008, 09:47 PM, said:

Ok. Well, all the same, I apologize. I didn't mean to ruin the topic.

No need to. Nos is just an athiest.

[Split Infinity]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Toasty]

In some ways it is.

[Split Infinity]

Enlighten me.

[Toasty]

He doesn't believe in Christianity. :P

[Split Infinity]

Christian couples only stay together because it's a sin to divorce. :/

[My Best Wishes]

Aquamarine, on Sep 8 2008, 03:05 AM, said:

You mean, because they're Christian? It makes no bloody difference what religion, race, nationality or gender they are; it's most likely going to happen.

58%, non-frequent Black Protestants
54%, non-frequent Evangelicals
51%, no religion (e.g., atheists & agnostics)
48%, ALL NON-CHRISTIANS
48%, non-frequent, other religions
47%, frequent Black Protestants
42%, non-frequent, mainline Protestants
41%, ALL CHRISTIANS
41%, non-frequent Catholics
39%, Jews
38%, frequent other religions
34%, frequent Evangelicals
32%, ALL FREQUENT CHRISTIANS
32%, frequent mainline Protestants
23%, frequent Catholics
Source

David, on Sep 8 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

Ok. Well, all the same, I apologize. I didn't mean to ruin the topic.

You didn't, we just have some touchy members and some members who live to point and correct flaws in others.

On topic, If I was to propose I have no idea what I would do, I do know what I wouldn't do though.
It wouldn't be Valentine's day.
It wouldn't be typical, like dinner and a movie/show, get down after dessert or whatever.
There would be no ring at the bottom of a glass.
And that's all for now.

[Saturos S.]

*cough* Catholic priests and choir boys *cough*

[Toasty]

Split Infinity, on Sep 7 2008, 11:49 PM, said:

Christian couples only stay together because it's a sin to divorce. :/

Or maybe it's because they love eachother?

The bible says that anyone who builds their relationship (marriage) upon christ will have an everlasting one.

[Split Infinity]

Yeah...that's a really great argument, Toasty...

[Drizzy Drake]

we all know how that one turned out, now don't we. thousands(could be millions) of couples who based their marriage on christianity get divorced each year.

NOBODY(save god herself), know's 100% what is going to happen in the future.

I never in a million years thought I'd cheat on Mel, but I did..twice. After being with her for a couple monthes, all other women meant nothing to me. I just stopped feeling lust for other women. They do their thing and mel does hers, and something, call it love, or sex-crazed-teen, just makes mewant mel. and then i cheated with one of my friends, and one that's both. i stopped it both times after i had started fingering them, but before we fuucked.

MY POINT is that you never know what might happen. i regret what i did, and we're past it. see, couples fight, that's just how it is, but it shows true love and comitment to overcome the difficulties. ps. I did kinda promise mel she could bang one guy and i wouldn't get mad.

we also have a deal where we can screw celebrity's. im w

[Split Infinity]

PS3 text limit get you?

If you're cheating after just two years, things don't look good for the long term. :)

[Drizzy Drake]

extenuating curcumstances. i was drugged out and vulnerable, and my friends were just trying to help me out. if only it hadn't gone further.

but me and mel are over it. wait, it was 3 times, but one didn't count becuz she cheated on me first. we fought twice, and both times came out on common ground. but really she was on the higher ground, being on top and all :)

but this is a long time ago. well the first two are, and the third one was a few monthes ago.

but anyway, me and mel are very open with each other. we may fight a lil more but...
1.we grow closer with each fight
2.no secrets. well obviously we both have secrets but there is no need to hide something, becuz we'll talk it over, probably fight, work it out, and that's it. we realise nobody's perfect and that forgiveness is key(AKA i can do whatever i want, and in the end, we'll always have M.U.S.)
3.lots of make up sex

[Split Infinity]

Your friends were trying to help you out by putting you in bed with another girl?

[Drizzy Drake]

no, the friends were the girls. like, they would help me threw a rough time, and healing always involves intoxication, which can lead to bad choices.

[Toasty]

Vanessa Hudgens, on Sep 10 2008, 01:16 AM, said:

we all know how that one turned out, now don't we. thousands(could be millions) of couples who based their marriage on christianity get divorced each year.

NOBODY(save god herself), know's 100% what is going to happen in the future.

I never in a million years thought I'd cheat on Mel, but I did..twice. After being with her for a couple monthes, all other women meant nothing to me. I just stopped feeling lust for other women. They do their thing and mel does hers, and something, call it love, or sex-crazed-teen, just makes mewant mel. and then i cheated with one of my friends, and one that's both. i stopped it both times after i had started fingering them, but before we fuucked.

MY POINT is that you never know what might happen. i regret what i did, and we're past it. see, couples fight, that's just how it is, but it shows true love and comitment to overcome the difficulties. ps. I did kinda promise mel she could bang one guy and i wouldn't get mad.

we also have a deal where we can screw celebrity's. im w

From what I've seen, the Chrsitian couples that get devorced are the ones who wane in their faith.

And Split, that wasn't an argument. It was a statement. I guess I should have added "take from that wha you will" or something to make that more clear.

[Split Infinity]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 11 2008, 05:13 PM, said:

From what I've seen, the Chrsitian couples that get devorced are the ones who wane in their faith.

That was my entire point.

[Toasty]

It seemed to me that your point was "Peaople have done that before and it didn't work," but whatever.

Anyway, Skidz, take a look at the list that Watch posted. Fewer devout Christians get devorced than non-religious or non-Christain people every year. Even if millions of Christians get devorced each year, they still make up a smaller portion of the pie.

It's a proven fact that relationships based around a religion last longer, and are generally happier.

And true love and commitment is shown when you can prevent the difficulties from happening in the first place. You might have cheated one less time if you weren't intoxicated.

Obviously mistakes will be made, and it takes love and conviction to get over them, but why not do everything you possibly can to prevent those mistakes from happening in the first place?

[Split Infinity]

Why do you always end your arguments with the suggestion of conversion?

[Drizzy Drake]

I didn't see that as a sugestion at conversion. I saw that as a suggestion to stay away from the situations that could lead to me cheating.

[Saturos S.]

Let's all become religious so our marriages will last?

Hell no, let's become accountants and go to stripclubs. For future wives, those are business meetings, we only go their for the sake of our clients.

[Lightning Star]

Split Infinity, on Sep 7 2008, 11:49 PM, said:

Christian couples only stay together because it's a sin to divorce. :/

Actually, it's not a sin to divorce. If your husband/wife is unfaithful, you have every right to a divorce.

Christian couples stay together/don't cheat/usually last longer because WHOMIGOSH, they place more emphasis on morals. WHODA THUNK IT? -.-;

Take a couple with high moral standards vs. a couple who'll let anything go; which couple do you think is more likely to stay together? HYYUCK DUUUUH! The one with higher moral standards. It's not f*cking rocket science, people. And it just so happens that most Christians have higher moral standards than the general "secular" population, thus they're more likely to have a successful relationship. Again, IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

It's not really a point of religion, just of personal moral values. Honest to god, you guys need to take a f*cking chill pill and stop your stupid little 13 year old girl cat fights. You make yourselves look like idiots.

[Mallick]

Completely disregarding the page 5 (haven't read that far), christian couples who stay married just for their religion are bound to lead unhappy lives.

EDIT: ty Icy.. sort of.

[Aquamarine]

Saturos Striker, on Sep 11 2008, 09:52 PM, said:

Hell no, let's become accountants and go to stripclubs. For future wives, those are business meetings, we only go their for the sake of our clients.

Good idea is GOOOOOD.

[Ironsight]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/220/c812615523c1d64669d5b65xj5.jpg
I choose my Metapod.

[Golden Legacy]

^ Amusing, but let's not do that again, shall we?

To clarify the point that's been said regarding religion and marriage is that *typically* those who adhere to faith tend to be more strict - or have higher morals, however you see it - on what's acceptable and what's not. Hence the lower divorce rates, if those figures posted earlier are to be believed.

However, that does not exclude atheists, agnostics, the general non-religious population from NOT having as high a set of moral standards regarding marriage. They can be just as faithful - perhaps even moreso - it doesn't leave them out.
---

All that said, my personal take on the manner is that society has largely "sexualized" relationships. It's in the sitcoms and the movies, always about satisfying lust and desiring the "physical" side of things. That's why the divorce rates are extraordinarily higher in the USA and many Western countries, compared with a lot of Eastern nations that don't have as profound an impact from the media, as they're marriages tend to last.

[Nosferatu]

Icy, on Sep 11 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

It's not really a point of religion, just of personal moral values. Honest to god, you guys need to take a f*cking chill pill and stop your stupid little 13 year old girl cat fights. You make yourselves look like idiots.

But then there wouldn't be anybody to laugh at around here anymore. It's a conundrum.

[Caael]

Golden Legacy, on Sep 12 2008, 03:14 AM, said:

^ Amusing, but let's not do that again, shall we?

To clarify the point that's been said regarding religion and marriage is that *typically* those who adhere to faith tend to be more strict - or have higher morals, however you see it - on what's acceptable and what's not. Hence the lower divorce rates, if those figures posted earlier are to be believed.

However, that does not exclude atheists, agnostics, the general non-religious population from NOT having as high a set of moral standards regarding marriage. They can be just as faithful - perhaps even moreso - it doesn't leave them out.
---

All that said, my personal take on the manner is that society has largely "sexualized" relationships. It's in the sitcoms and the movies, always about satisfying lust and desiring the "physical" side of things. That's why the divorce rates are extraordinarily higher in the USA and many Western countries, compared with a lot of Eastern nations that don't have as profound an impact from the media, as they're marriages tend to last.

A lot of them have multiple wives

Unrelated, but interesting nonetheless.

[Split Infinity]

Icy, on Sep 12 2008, 06:05 AM, said:

Actually, it's not a sin to divorce. If your husband/wife is unfaithful, you have every right to a divorce.

Christian couples stay together/don't cheat/usually last longer because WHOMIGOSH, they place more emphasis on morals. WHODA THUNK IT? -.-;

Take a couple with high moral standards vs. a couple who'll let anything go; which couple do you think is more likely to stay together? HYYUCK DUUUUH! The one with higher moral standards. It's not f*cking rocket science, people. And it just so happens that most Christians have higher moral standards than the general "secular" population, thus they're more likely to have a successful relationship. Again, IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

Huh, maybe I'm thinking of Judaism.

But who says that non-Christians don't have morals? Like Toasty's pointed out before, our entire Western society was built on the foundation of Christian beliefs, so almost everyone shares the same basic values. And to be honest, I don't think a strong marriage has anything to do with morals; unless one of them turns out to be a complete jerk, both people probably want the relationship to work for as long as possible. I think willpower is the bigger issue.

[Golden Legacy]

Icy, on Sep 11 2008, 04:05 PM, said:

Actually, it's not a sin to divorce. If your husband/wife is unfaithful, you have every right to a divorce.

Christian couples stay together/don't cheat/usually last longer because WHOMIGOSH, they place more emphasis on morals. WHODA THUNK IT? -.-;

Take a couple with high moral standards vs. a couple who'll let anything go; which couple do you think is more likely to stay together? HYYUCK DUUUUH! The one with higher moral standards. It's not f*cking rocket science, people. And it just so happens that most Christians have higher moral standards than the general "secular" population, thus they're more likely to have a successful relationship. Again, IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

Right, that's all ideal and all. Why then do the conservative ares of the United States have the highest divorce rates?

http://www.logcabin.org/lef/divorce_rates_...we3ge6i217nkxn5

Religion or lack thereof doesn't play as large a role in marriage commitment as you suggest. Lifestyle and standards of living, how urbanized or open your region is, etc. all contribute too.

[Toasty]

That being said, generally speaking religious people have lower divorce rates, and for the reasons Icy stated.

And GL, please don't ever use the NYT as a refrence. That's where that article origionated.

[Golden Legacy]

The New York Times is one of the most widely distributed and respected newspapers from the US. They have a liberal bias, possibly, on issues related with the Iraq War, but notice how in that article they are citing research and various other studies that were conducted.

Statistics don't lie either.

[Nosferatu]

90% of this forum has brains. The other 10% doesn't. See? I lied by making it backwards.

Seriously. I don't plan on having kids. OH NO I SHOULDN'T GET MARRIED.
**** off closed-mind dip****s.

[Toasty]

Golden Legacy, on Sep 13 2008, 06:02 PM, said:

The New York Times is one of the most widely distributed and respected newspapers from the US. They have a liberal bias, possibly, on issues related with the Iraq War, but notice how in that article they are citing research and various other studies that were conducted.

Statistics don't lie either.

I'm not saying the statistics are wrong, because far more likely than not, they are. But the NYT has a history of giving conservatives the cold shoulder.

Besides GL, I thought American news was corrupt?

[Golden Legacy]

http://www.religious...rg/chr_dira.htm
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial..._family_values/

Just to hit the point home. A quote:

"The AP report stated that 'the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people.' The 10 Southern states with some of the highest divorce rates were Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. By comparison nine states in the Northeast were among those with the lowest divorce rates: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont."

One reason for the higher divorce rates in the Bible Belt may be the lower percentage of Roman Catholics in the South. Their denomination does not recognize divorce. Other reasons could be related more to culture than religion:
- Couples in the South enter their first marriages at a younger age.
- Family incomes in the South are lower.
- Educational attainment is lower in the South: One in three Massachusetts residents have completed college. while only 23% of Texans have."

For the non-Americans, as a very brief background into the USA's demographics, Southern states are conservative and more religiously dominated while the Northern states are more liberal and have slightly less of a religious influence (they, and California on the west coast).

The article points out that it's not necessarily the fault of religion solely that leads to higher divorce rates, but other cultural factors, such as educational level (higher in the north) and income (likewise higher in the liberal and more educated north).

[Toasty]

That demographic also holds true more to the eastern side of the US than the western side. California is a pretty liberal state, for example.

I never said that location had nothing to do with it. My point is, that if you were to judge it solely on religion, a Christian would be less likely to get divorced than an Athiest.

Though I know where you're coming from.

[Golden Legacy]

It's my fault then, I should have made it clear. The other variables alongside religion play a huge role - it just so happens that such aspects of living as education, income, and location all line up with religion adherence, so one can't say for sure which "contributes" more.

I do agree, if all factors were kept the same with the only difference being one couple is religiously devout and the other are atheists, no doubt the former would have a less chance of divorce.

[Split Infinity]

Toasty, what particular morals do Christians have that your typical atheist lacks?

[Toasty]

I think the difference in morals between an athiest and a christian can be shown when comparing me a Nos. Some morals we share equally, such as killing someone is wrong (though I don't quite know the specifics for him, I think it's only acceptable when it's absolutely the only thing you can do to ensure the saftey of yourself and those around you).

However, he'll make people angry to make himself happy, whereas making people angry/sad makes me feel like crap.

In general athiests tend to be more secular than religious people. I'm not saying all of them are, but generally speaking, that would be the stereotype. Secular beliefs are those which satisfy oneself, and usually put others second.

Basically, if it satisfied them, they would devorce their spouse. Though that can't be said for all athiests, it can be said for most, or at least a lot of them.

For me though, I would only devorce my wife if it made her happy.


I can't say which morals are or aren't shared, because I'm not an athiest, and therefore I can't say what a typical athiest's morals are.

To be fair to Nos though, I have no idea what he would do.

[Nosferatu]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 13 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

To be fair to Nos though, I have no idea what he would do.

I'm nice to the people I like. (Small list.) Sheba I treat like nobody else.

[Split Infinity]

Ashley Tisdale, on Sep 14 2008, 02:03 PM, said:

In general athiests tend to be more secular than religious people. I'm not saying all of them are, but generally speaking, that would be the stereotype. Secular beliefs are those which satisfy oneself, and usually put others second.

Basically, if it satisfied them, they would devorce their spouse. Though that can't be said for all athiests, it can be said for most, or at least a lot of them.

DISCRIMINATION.

[Toasty]

Black people have dark skin.

OH NOEZ I'M DISCRIMINATIN!

[Split Infinity]

It's not discrimination if it's an undisputable fact.

[Toasty]

But that's my point. Most (not all) athiests have more worldly views than other people.

I chould have used "African Americans" instead of black, though, because there are some African Americans who are borderline white.

[Ironsight]

Plus, how many of them have been to Africa?

[Toasty]

It doesn't matter. It's their heritage.

I'm not saying that there aren't any athiests out there who don't have only secular ideals, I'm just saying that there's more athiests with worldly thoughts and actions than a religious people, just as there are more lighter skinned Caucasians than African Americans.

[Split Infinity]

Yeah, you rely too much on stereotypes.

[Toasty]

Split, A stereotypical caucasian is white, is it not?

[Split Infinity]

You know what I mean.