Irish Famine of 1847-1849, Genocide?
#1
Posted 13 February 2009 - 09:31 PM
As a general background, the Great Potato Famine that struck Ireland was part of a broader plight that swept Europe. The conditions of Ireland were already fairly dire, most of the fertile land was expropriated by Britain and most of the Irish had to labour on as indentured servants (most would call it slave work), easily 1/3 of the population of Ireland was in poverty. Prime Minister Lord John Russell spoke of the need to resolve the "Irish problem" and the degree to which the famine could provide the solution.
The famine caused Ireland to lose 25% of its population, with 1.1-1.5 million Irish having starved to death. Many times that immigrated, mostly to the United States. Meanwhile, England continued to benefit from Ireland's harvest - the net export of Ireland actually increased in this period at the expense of the inhabitants - and the internal population was cut off and repressed, with thousands of families being forced of their land into mass poverty.
This annihalated the Irish language. The majority of the Irish spoke a language called Gaelic, and after the famine and the ineptitude (or the intent) of the policies of England to let suffer the population, the culture and language of Irish was broken and wiped out, with Gaelic today being a faint fraction of what it used to be and English now the dominant language, Gaelic today having withered away to nearly nothing. To this day, 150 years later, Ireland's population remains half of what it was before the famine.
This is at least the side I had never known before. I want to hear if people know about this, if people disagree and have other views, etc. What is taught in English schools about the Irish famine?
#2
Posted 14 February 2009 - 02:20 AM
#3
Posted 14 February 2009 - 05:42 AM
i have read up a bit on the famine and i personally call it a kind of geno-manslaughter by the English, although the provided next to no aid, iirc the Irish were to blame for the famine in the first place by being completely reliant on potato farming.
#4
Posted 16 February 2009 - 10:52 PM
We also learned about the famine, but it was suggested that it was a disease that killed off the potato crops.
#5
Posted 16 February 2009 - 11:28 PM
Golden Legacy, on Feb 13 2009, 07:31 PM, said:
As a general background, the Great Potato Famine that struck Ireland was part of a broader plight that swept Europe. The conditions of Ireland were already fairly dire, most of the fertile land was expropriated by Britain and most of the Irish had to labour on as indentured servants (most would call it slave work), easily 1/3 of the population of Ireland was in poverty. Prime Minister Lord John Russell spoke of the need to resolve the "Irish problem" and the degree to which the famine could provide the solution.
The famine caused Ireland to lose 25% of its population, with 1.1-1.5 million Irish having starved to death. Many times that immigrated, mostly to the United States. Meanwhile, England continued to benefit from Ireland's harvest - the net export of Ireland actually increased in this period at the expense of the inhabitants - and the internal population was cut off and repressed, with thousands of families being forced of their land into mass poverty.
This annihalated the Irish language. The majority of the Irish spoke a language called Gaelic, and after the famine and the ineptitude (or the intent) of the policies of England to let suffer the population, the culture and language of Irish was broken and wiped out, with Gaelic today being a faint fraction of what it used to be and English now the dominant language, Gaelic today having withered away to nearly nothing. To this day, 150 years later, Ireland's population remains half of what it was before the famine.
This is at least the side I had never known before. I want to hear if people know about this, if people disagree and have other views, etc. What is taught in English schools about the Irish famine?
irish is better off with english than gaelic anyway, gives their citizens an opportunity to move some place better lolol
#6
Posted 17 February 2009 - 01:51 PM
Laharl, on Feb 14 2009, 07:42 AM, said:
i have read up a bit on the famine and i personally call it a kind of geno-manslaughter by the English, although the provided next to no aid, iirc the Irish were to blame for the famine in the first place by being completely reliant on potato farming.
The selective topics in the history of a nation play a role in forming the intended image, that the nation was not at fault and is somehow above what historical events dictate, I agree.
And to my knowledge, part of what contributed to the failure of crops in Ireland was the overworking of the fields by indentured workers. And it wasn't just the fact that potato crops failed, it was that Ireland was cut off by England (or neglected as some will say), and an effective siege was imposed. In fact, food was allowed out of Ireland but imports needed to account for starvation were cut off.
Toasty, on Feb 17 2009, 12:52 AM, said:
Until the day American textbooks talk about the wars and outright slaughter with Native Americans, I would not consider this anything to brag about.
Quote
We're all aware it was a disease that destroyed the Irish crops. The question here is did England stand by while Ireland was ravished, when much of the population was already in poverty beforehand? There are some, as I mentioned, that even go as far to say England wanted the famine to continue to destroy the Irish language/culture so that it could impose its sovereignty over it, i.e. the makings of a genocide.
#7
Posted 17 February 2009 - 02:19 PM
Golden Legacy, on Feb 17 2009, 07:51 PM, said:
To be fair we did get taught about things such as the Black and Tans from the Lloyd George period so they will teach things that reflect badly on Britain.
#8
Posted 17 February 2009 - 02:22 PM
#9
Posted 17 February 2009 - 02:34 PM