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Your Faith/Religion Why not?

#1   Legolastom 

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    Posted 07 October 2009 - 04:42 AM

    Hey you! Yes you! Lets have a talk shall we? About what you ask? Well something low key and non-controversial, cats? No you fool! Lets have a little chat about religion.

    So I thought "This forum hasn't had a post in over a month" so lets resurrect this shit with something, and this time I thought I would try Religion instead of US politics.

    So Toasty, GL (Whoever arrives first (Tim don't but in (And no snide remarks, either of you! You know who you are.))) tell us a little bit about your religion and why it is the right one.


    I've moved this topic to Off-Topic. This "Religion" thread is for people to discuss their own personal beliefs, why they believe it, and to share their different faiths and ideas. It's meant to be personal and an open venue to discuss your faith and be introduced to others.

    (if you want the debate thread, it is here)


    #2   Someone Else 

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      Posted 07 October 2009 - 01:35 PM

      I'm agnostic because I'm an indecisive bastard. I feel that the universe being exactly perfect, and everything just WORKING is about as likely as me just throwing a bunch of wooden sticks and it forms a perfect miniature log cabin. I think if you substitute that random chance with a creator, or a god... well, it's a little easier on the brain.

      I don't believe in religion, but I think there's probably some kind of supreme being out there. But I can't know for sure, so I just label myself as agnostic.

      tl;dr, I guess I believe in god, but not in a religious sense.

      #3   Ironsight 

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        Posted 07 October 2009 - 01:54 PM

        I don't have a religion. I wasn't raised with it, though I would always say I was a Chritstain just by default. When I got older, I didn't see a point to it, and parts of it were just too unbeleiveable for me to accept. So now I have no religion. I just go through the day without thinking about the possibilities or impossibilities of God(s). It's just not something I bother to consider anymore.

        Now let's see how long this topic remains char-free.

        #4   Caael 

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          Posted 07 October 2009 - 03:19 PM

          http://meatofthematter.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/fsm-for-reals.jpg

          #5   My Best Wishes 

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            Posted 07 October 2009 - 07:54 PM

            Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

            #6   Eugine 

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              Posted 07 October 2009 - 09:41 PM

              Well, I'm not going to say why my religion is the right one, but I think it is good to tell people about my religious beliefs.
              do
              I grew up in a house with a Christian mother and a borderline Atheist father. I attended church services nearly every Sunday, but became a bit skeptical about religion, Christianity specifically around age 11.

              Went from a Christian to Agnostic to Atheist then back to Christian probably every month. I even looked into other religions. Buddhism is actually awesome! I don't know if was healthy, but I believe it was for me.

              Eventually, after many deliberations, I am now a Christian (Catholic in mind), and has been pleased and happy most of the time. I am actually a big fan of my Priest. Don't know why I am a Christian honestly, but for some reason I have never felt more alive after church and praying. Hey, at least God has been good to me imo.

              #7   Nosferatu 

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                Posted 07 October 2009 - 09:48 PM

                Just to have posted here, if you haven't figured out me by now you're fuckin' stupid.

                #8   Mallick 

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                  Posted 08 October 2009 - 12:17 AM

                  View PostNosferatu, on Oct 7 2009, 08:48 PM, said:

                  Just to have posted here, if you haven't figured out me by now you're fuckin' stupid.

                  Protestant?

                  Anyway, it's good that you've looked into other religions. If I were going to make the change, it would probably be to buddhism. I'm a non practicing catholic btw.

                  #9   Toasty 

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                    Posted 08 October 2009 - 01:02 AM

                    I don't think I need to state my religion. I do need to figure out which specific Christian denomination I consider myself a part of though.

                    Anyway, I've spent ass-loads of time thinking, and I mean thinking hard, about how intricate and complex everything is in our universe, and how despite it's incredible complexness, it all still works in such a way that we can exist. And by complexness, I'm not just talking about the ecosystems, the solar systems, and all that stuff. I'm also talking about how matter actually interacts with other matter. The kind of stuff that still exists before, during, and after any "Big Bang" which may or may not have happened.
                    Like how protons and neutrons are attracted to each other through the strong nuclear force and whatnot. How come the strong nuclear force exists? How'd it get there? Why is there such a thing as "super conduction"?

                    My philosophy is that God made a series of incredibly complex systems that interact with each other, and that he expects that we'll figure them out and understand them (to an extent). It just seems to me like some all-powerful, all-intelligent being would have had to design these things.



                    Though God or no God, all (generally accepted) good morals stem from a religion of some sort. Religion, I believe, serves as a preserving agent for humanity. Without it, our society would've delved into absolute utter chaos ages ago.

                    You could argue that religion is what's cause many conflicts in centuries past, but I'd say it stemmed more from people disagreeing with each other than anything else. Chances are that even without religion, something like the crusades and the great religious wars from the past few centuries would've happened anyways.

                    #10   Split Infinity 

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                      Posted 08 October 2009 - 01:52 AM

                      I still don't see how the universe could have been created if it truly is a universe. It's everything. There can't be anything before, after or outside of it. If there is, then where did It come from? The god universe? Did something create that as well?

                      Anyway, I guess I'm agnostic verging on agnostic theist. I follow my own logic and anything I can't explain, I don't try to. That said, I don't completely doubt the possibility of intelligent design, but I see no reason to commit to any religion on Earth simply because all of them have exactly the same amount of proof going for them.

                      #11   My Best Wishes 

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                        Posted 08 October 2009 - 03:15 AM

                        View PostSplit Infinity, on Oct 8 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

                        I still don't see how the universe could have been created if it truly is a universe. It's everything. There can't be anything before, after or outside of it. If there is, then where did It come from? The god universe? Did something create that as well?

                        Anyway, I guess I'm agnostic verging on agnostic theist. I follow my own logic and anything I can't explain, I don't try to. That said, I don't completely doubt the possibility of intelligent design, but I see no reason to commit to any religion on Earth simply because all of them have exactly the same amount of proof going for them.

                        Faith

                        #12   Aquamarine 

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                          Posted 08 October 2009 - 03:24 AM

                          View PostToasty, on Oct 8 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

                          I don't think I need to state my religion. I do need to figure out which specific Christian denomination I consider myself a part of though.

                          Anyway, I've spent ass-loads of time thinking, and I mean thinking hard, about how intricate and complex everything is in our universe, and how despite it's incredible complexness, it all still works in such a way that we can exist. And by complexness, I'm not just talking about the ecosystems, the solar systems, and all that stuff. I'm also talking about how matter actually interacts with other matter. The kind of stuff that still exists before, during, and after any "Big Bang" which may or may not have happened.
                          Like how protons and neutrons are attracted to each other through the strong nuclear force and whatnot. How come the strong nuclear force exists? How'd it get there? Why is there such a thing as "super conduction"?

                          My philosophy is that God made a series of incredibly complex systems that interact with each other, and that he expects that we'll figure them out and understand them (to an extent). It just seems to me like some all-powerful, all-intelligent being would have had to design these things.
                          Though God or no God, all (generally accepted) good morals stem from a religion of some sort. Religion, I believe, serves as a preserving agent for humanity. Without it, our society would've delved into absolute utter chaos ages ago.

                          You could argue that religion is what's cause many conflicts in centuries past, but I'd say it stemmed more from people disagreeing with each other than anything else. Chances are that even without religion, something like the crusades and the great religious wars from the past few centuries would've happened anyways.


                          ... Out of respect for the topic creator, I'm not going to even comment on this. Actually, it'd be best if I never view this thread again.

                          #13   Golden Legacy 

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                            Posted 08 October 2009 - 08:35 AM

                            I've never quite known how to identify myself with regards to faith. I've grown to be more spiritual and have a Buddhist-like approach to the world. At the same time, I do believe in God and being a Muslim/Christian is something I continue to identify with. I do not think the two aspects are mutually exclusive in any respect.

                            I do make daily prayers, fast for Ramadan, and attend Mass all when I get the chance to. I see all those as different ways of approaching the same peace. They are a part of a broader concept of spirituality that for me ties it all together, and that's how I ultimately live my day to day life, not strictly bound by any dogma.

                            #14   Legolastom 

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                              Posted 08 October 2009 - 08:45 AM

                              I am an atheist of course, but really no-one can be 100% atheist, the same way that no-one (Well possibly actually...) can be 100% religious.

                              #15   Golden Legacy 

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                                Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:27 PM

                                I've moved this topic to Off-Topic. I think this religion thread is perfect for people to discuss their own personal beliefs, why they believe it, and to share their different faiths and ideas. It's meant to be personal and an open venue to discuss your faith and be introduced to others.

                                The debate thread is here and should be a separate discussion from this.

                                #16   gsninja 

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                                  Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:34 PM

                                  I've become less and less spiritual over the years. I'm still Catholic, but I've reached the point where I don't even care anymore. I still believe in God and the core Catholic teachings, but I'm now very unreligious.

                                  #17   Caael 

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                                    Posted 09 October 2009 - 08:51 AM

                                    Where's my post explaining my FSM beliefs gone?

                                    #18   Mallick 

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                                      Posted 09 October 2009 - 08:33 PM

                                      View PostCaael, on Oct 9 2009, 07:51 AM, said:

                                      Where's my post explaining my FSM beliefs gone?

                                      Trash section.

                                      #19   Caael 

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                                        Posted 10 October 2009 - 03:11 AM

                                        Why?

                                        #20   Legolastom 

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                                          Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:26 AM

                                          Also Toasty your moral theory about religion is another thing I hate about it, the idea that the only possible reason humans can have for being nice is that they will get punished in the afterlife or that they owe Jesus a favour or something, its complete bullshit.

                                          Also Toasty for God to have made the universe that complex surely something even more complex must have happened to create God?

                                          #21   Caael 

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                                            Posted 12 October 2009 - 08:54 AM

                                            Oh come on.

                                            #22   Someone Else 

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                                              Posted 12 October 2009 - 01:34 PM

                                              View PostLegolastom, on Oct 12 2009, 03:26 AM, said:

                                              Also Toasty for God to have made the universe that complex surely something even more complex must have happened to create God?

                                              Er... circular argument I think.

                                              #23   Toasty 

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                                                Posted 12 October 2009 - 07:14 PM

                                                View PostLegolastom, on Oct 12 2009, 03:26 AM, said:

                                                Also Toasty your moral theory about religion is another thing I hate about it, the idea that the only possible reason humans can have for being nice is that they will get punished in the afterlife or that they owe Jesus a favour or something, its complete bullshit.

                                                Also Toasty for God to have made the universe that complex surely something even more complex must have happened to create God?


                                                I never said people have to be religious to have good morals. But if you take a look back into history, where did all of these "morals" come from? \They originated from religions (for Europe, that would be Catholicism, mainly).

                                                Now, I'm not saying the Catholic church was the best thing ever during that period of time, but the idea of "treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated" and whatnot originated from religion.

                                                And chances are, without religion, we wouldn't have discovered these morals. At least not for quite some time later.

                                                But let's not turn this into a religious debate.


                                                And nothing came before God. God was, is, and always will be. Or so the Christian bible says. And of course, I believe that to be true.

                                                #24   My Best Wishes 

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                                                  Posted 13 October 2009 - 12:10 AM

                                                  View PostLegolastom, on Oct 12 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

                                                  Also Toasty for God to have made the universe that complex surely something even more complex must have happened to create God?

                                                  I have part of an answer to this question but given the audience I don't think it would be received well.

                                                  #25   Toasty 

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                                                    Posted 13 October 2009 - 12:36 AM

                                                    Well this isn't a debate, it's a discussion about what you believe. If someone makes a post calling your statement "utter shiat", then they are out of line, as per the topics general goal.

                                                    #26   Legolastom 

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                                                      Posted 13 October 2009 - 03:48 AM

                                                      Yes sorry just seems the religion and evolution topic isn't a place to discuss this, considering I originally put this topic in the debate section anyway.

                                                      But as Toasty proved, any religious argument about first cause is self defeating anyway.

                                                      Not a debate. This is a discussion. Use the other topic if you want to "challenge" religion.

                                                      #27   Split Infinity 

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                                                        Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:07 AM

                                                        Because I didn't say the exact same thing one page ago. >_>

                                                        View PostToasty, on Oct 13 2009, 12:14 PM, said:

                                                        I never said people have to be religious to have good morals.

                                                        No, but the fact that you keep bringing it up implies it like a ton of bricks.

                                                        #28   Golden Legacy 

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                                                          Posted 13 October 2009 - 09:05 AM

                                                          View PostToasty, on Oct 13 2009, 02:36 AM, said:

                                                          Well this isn't a debate, it's a discussion about what you believe. If someone makes a post calling your statement "utter shiat", then they are out of line, as per the topics general goal.

                                                          100% what Toasty said. This is a discussion for everyone to talk about their beliefs, an open discussion for personal faith and your own ideas. This is not meant to be a debate.

                                                          watch, I'm curious about what you were going to say.

                                                          #29   Mallick 

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                                                            Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:40 AM

                                                            View PostLegolastom, on Oct 13 2009, 02:48 AM, said:

                                                            Yes sorry just seems the religion and evolution topic isn't a place to discuss this, considering I originally put this topic in the debate section anyway.

                                                            But as Toasty proved, any religious argument about first cause is self defeating anyway.

                                                            Not a debate. This is a discussion. Use the other topic if you want to "challenge" religion.

                                                            I don't think anything is stopping you from making another new topic in the debate section.

                                                            #30   Saturos S. 

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                                                              Posted 13 October 2009 - 01:06 PM

                                                              Well, my grandparents are religious catholics. My parents much less so. I'm not at all really.

                                                              I do go to church on easter and with christmas though, but that's more out of respect towards my grandparents than really believing. It's still nice though not be celebrate easter and christmas in the manner that commercialism has made it these days but just with family.

                                                              I'm just too cynic really to believe there's a heaven, or somekind of superior being out there. It's just not a satisfying answer. But I do appreciate the help religion can give to people. A lot of people find a sense of peace with the idea that someone they lost has gone to heaven or something similar. As Toasty stated, it does teach people morals, that's a good aspect of religion also.

                                                              The only real problem I have with religion is that in any society there are always people who have to take it to the extreme. It's something you see with religious people as well as with non-religious people. I don't think anyone has the right to condemn other people based solely on the beliefs of another person alone(within reason, so no genocides etc.).

                                                              #31   Caael 

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                                                                Posted 13 October 2009 - 06:36 PM

                                                                I'll say it again, because PDM so kindly deleted my post the first time <3

                                                                I believe in the Flying Spaghetti monster purely because of the delicious satire.

                                                                But technically speaking, I'm atheist.

                                                                #32   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                  Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:43 AM

                                                                  View PostGolden Legacy, on Oct 14 2009, 02:05 AM, said:

                                                                  100% what Toasty said. This is a discussion for everyone to talk about their beliefs, an open discussion for personal faith and your own ideas. This is not meant to be a debate.

                                                                  watch, I'm curious about what you were going to say.

                                                                  Now you much understand Riad in my church we sustain our leaders as modern day prophets, seers and revlators. But basicly Joesph Smith touched on the subject in the King Follett discourse and a little saying has been coined on the content of what he said which is basically "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become."


                                                                  When I said I had a part answer I meant that this explains where our God came from, but before him I have no knowledge and I'm not aware anyone I know does either.

                                                                  Interested to see the responses to this...

                                                                  #33   Toasty 

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                                                                    Posted 14 October 2009 - 10:51 PM

                                                                    Strangely enough, I just got back from youthgroup a little while ago, where we had a speaker. She used to be a Mormon (but converted to CMA, I think. At least it's something closer to what my beliefs are), and she talked about what Mormons believe in and stuff.

                                                                    Which was interesting to me, because I've got a lot of Mormon friends.

                                                                    Anyway, I have a question regarding the whole "God was once a man and a sinner" thing.

                                                                    If God was once man, and when he was a man, he had a God, and that god was once a man who once had a god, then what came first? There had to be a beginning, and it certainly couldn't have begun with man, as man hasn't the power to create like God does. But the Book of Mormon doesn't address this as far as I know.

                                                                    #34   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                      Posted 15 October 2009 - 12:13 AM

                                                                      View PostToasty, on Oct 15 2009, 03:51 PM, said:

                                                                      Strangely enough, I just got back from youthgroup a little while ago, where we had a speaker. She used to be a Mormon (but converted to CMA, I think. At least it's something closer to what my beliefs are), and she talked about what Mormons believe in and stuff.

                                                                      Which was interesting to me, because I've got a lot of Mormon friends.

                                                                      Anyway, I have a question regarding the whole "God was once a man and a sinner" thing.

                                                                      If God was once man, and when he was a man, he had a God, and that god was once a man who once had a god, then what came first? There had to be a beginning, and it certainly couldn't have begun with man, as man hasn't the power to create like God does. But the Book of Mormon doesn't address this as far as I know.


                                                                      View Postwatch, on Oct 14 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

                                                                      When I said I had a part answer I meant that this explains where our God came from, but before him I have no knowledge and I'm not aware anyone I know does either.


                                                                      #35   Toasty 

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                                                                        Posted 15 October 2009 - 12:41 AM

                                                                        Fair enough.

                                                                        #36   Saturos S. 

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                                                                          Posted 15 October 2009 - 10:30 AM

                                                                          Basically your post says, "We know that we were created by god, but we have no idea what created him." Correct?

                                                                          I don't see how this can be a satisfying answer. There's no logic at all to it and it can't be emiperically tested. It's just blindly accepting a higher authority and after that no further thought what so ever.

                                                                          I think religion can be good for an individual to provide mental support but it should stay away from answering the bigger questions that explain humanity as a whole (ie. why are we the way we are?).

                                                                          #37   Toasty 

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                                                                            Posted 15 October 2009 - 10:13 PM

                                                                            I see no problem with using religion to answer those questions, because from my point of view, religion does a better job of explaining it imo.

                                                                            Why are we the way we are? Science says we cam to be thanks to a random occurrance, and from the initial primordial ooze, we eventually evolved into our current state. We do the things that we do, and act the way we act because our brains function in specific ways and release different amounts of certain chemicals at different times when compared to other human brains. Though really, science still knows very little about the human brain. Regardless, science provides no other greater call to the human race other than to populate and advance in knowledge and technology. Science cannot explain what happens after death.

                                                                            The [Christian] religion, on the other hand, says we were each created by god for a purpose. The broad generalization of that purpose is to praise, respect, fear, and believe in God, and to spread his word to other people. Do that, and you will go to heaven. The Christian bible also states that we each have a soul. Or rather, we are all souls with a body. We do the things we do and act the way we act because we are influenced by sin, and because some of us also struggle to do away with the sin in our lives.

                                                                            That's my opinion.

                                                                            #38   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                              Posted 16 October 2009 - 12:48 AM

                                                                              View PostSaturos S., on Oct 16 2009, 03:30 AM, said:

                                                                              Basically your post says, "We know that we were created by god, but we have no idea what created him." Correct?

                                                                              I don't see how this can be a satisfying answer. There's no logic at all to it and it can't be emiperically tested. It's just blindly accepting a higher authority and after that no further thought what so ever.

                                                                              I think religion can be good for an individual to provide mental support but it should stay away from answering the bigger questions that explain humanity as a whole (ie. why are we the way we are?).

                                                                              Well he was created by his Heavenly Father (god) but yea pretty much.

                                                                              Well if I could tell you where this all started would that really affect your stance? I doubt it would. And it's called faith for a reason.

                                                                              Can science do a better job of answering all the 'big' questions? Where did we come from, why are we here, what happens after death etc, all the classics.

                                                                              #39   Saturos S. 

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                                                                                Posted 16 October 2009 - 01:32 AM

                                                                                View PostToasty, on Oct 16 2009, 06:13 AM, said:

                                                                                Why are we the way we are? Science says we cam to be thanks to a random occurrance, and from the initial primordial ooze, we eventually evolved into our current state. We do the things that we do, and act the way we act because our brains function in specific ways and release different amounts of certain chemicals at different times when compared to other human brains. Though really, science still knows very little about the human brain. Regardless, science provides no other greater call to the human race other than to populate and advance in knowledge and technology. Science cannot explain what happens after death.


                                                                                View Postwatch, on Oct 16 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

                                                                                Well he was created by his Heavenly Father (god) but yea pretty much.

                                                                                Well if I could tell you where this all started would that really affect your stance? I doubt it would. And it's called faith for a reason.

                                                                                Can science do a better job of answering all the 'big' questions? Where did we come from, why are we here, what happens after death etc, all the classics.


                                                                                Science can provide more answers in explaining how these mechanisms work. They explain how we got from monkey to human or how we are able to feel pain. Also, science does provide an answer about what happens after death, it's just not a nice one. Basically you just decompose, every thing in your body goes to the lowest energetic level possible (2nd law of thermodynamics) resulting into decomposure.

                                                                                The answer science provides for the existence of life just is that there isn't one, or that they don't know. But there isn't really a religious answer either, it merely says that god said "Let there be life." and thus there was life. But that just isn't an explanation.

                                                                                So, science can't provide a lot of the big answers, but what religion provides as an answer is hardly an answer either.

                                                                                #40   Toasty 

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                                                                                  Posted 16 October 2009 - 06:30 PM

                                                                                  View PostSaturos S., on Oct 16 2009, 12:32 AM, said:

                                                                                  Science can provide more answers in explaining how these mechanisms work. They explain how we got from monkey to human or how we are able to feel pain. Also, science does provide an answer about what happens after death, it's just not a nice one. Basically you just decompose, every thing in your body goes to the lowest energetic level possible (2nd law of thermodynamics) resulting into decomposure.

                                                                                  The answer science provides for the existence of life just is that there isn't one, or that they don't know. But there isn't really a religious answer either, it merely says that god said "Let there be life." and thus there was life. But that just isn't an explanation.

                                                                                  So, science can't provide a lot of the big answers, but what religion provides as an answer is hardly an answer either.



                                                                                  I was referring more to what happens to your consciousness after you die. Science can't explain what happens to your "spirit" after death.

                                                                                  From a religious perspective, that's a perfect explanation. The Christian bible states that god can pretty much speak anything he wants into existence. He's omnipotent after all. There's no need to go into intricate detail, because all you need to know is that he did it.

                                                                                  Not a satisfying answer for scientists, maybe, but then again, most people aren't scientists (that's not to say they can't be atheist though).



                                                                                  And watch, it may be called faith for a reason, but don't you think there should be some kind of explanation for how it all began? Traditional Christian teachings answer that question by stating that "God was, is, and always will be" (i.e. he's always been there, and will continue to be there). There's no need to ask where God came from, because it's clearly stated that he wasn't created by anything, He has simply always been there.

                                                                                  Though I am curious. Why do you believe in Mormon teachings over traditional Christian teachings?

                                                                                  #41   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                    Posted 16 October 2009 - 10:41 PM

                                                                                    View PostToasty, on Oct 17 2009, 11:30 AM, said:

                                                                                    I was referring more to what happens to your consciousness after you die. Science can't explain what happens to your "spirit" after death.

                                                                                    Technically the Spirit doesn't exist in scientific theory, so of course it doesn't have an answer. If it does, and I think it might, I personally don't see how a metaphysical force would be able to think for itself, so any form of afterlife would be inherently pointless.

                                                                                    #42   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                      Posted 17 October 2009 - 05:01 AM

                                                                                      View PostToasty, on Oct 17 2009, 11:30 AM, said:

                                                                                      And watch, it may be called faith for a reason, but don't you think there should be some kind of explanation for how it all began? Traditional Christian teachings answer that question by stating that "God was, is, and always will be" (i.e. he's always been there, and will continue to be there). There's no need to ask where God came from, because it's clearly stated that he wasn't created by anything, He has simply always been there.

                                                                                      Though I am curious. Why do you believe in Mormon teachings over traditional Christian teachings?

                                                                                      Should there be? Would it really make a difference? It's not relevant to ours trials on Earth and the work we have to do to return to our Father in Heaven when this is all done. Personally I think one of the reasons we don't have an answer to that question, as well as many others, is that we aren't able to contemplate it in this state.

                                                                                      Firstly I was raised in the LDS church so it's always been the normal thing for me. Don't misinterpret that to mean I'm blind. I rejected the church for many of my teenage years, I stopped going, had fights with my parents on the subjects of propaganda and brainwashing. Ultimately the thing that brought me back to church was I ended up chasing a girl there.

                                                                                      What would you consider the 'traditional' teachings to be? As far as I know you are not of any particular denomination. The reason the LDS church is not in the council of churches or whatever it is is because we believe the trinity are 3 separate beings, which to me, using only the bible, makes complete sense, how it could be interpreted otherwise is beyond me. That is one big reason, another would also be where does it say in the bible that all revelation ends with the bible? Finally and I saved the best for last, answer to prayers and testimony.

                                                                                      View PostSplit Infinity, on Oct 17 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

                                                                                      Technically the Spirit doesn't exist in scientific theory, so of course it doesn't have an answer. If it does, and I think it might, I personally don't see how a metaphysical force would be able to think for itself, so any form of afterlife would be inherently pointless.

                                                                                      Resurrection.

                                                                                      #43   Split Infinity 

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                                                                                        Posted 17 October 2009 - 08:22 PM

                                                                                        I thought that only happened to J-Man.

                                                                                        #44   Toasty 

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                                                                                          Posted 17 October 2009 - 10:56 PM

                                                                                          View Postwatch, on Oct 17 2009, 04:01 AM, said:

                                                                                          Should there be? Would it really make a difference? It's not relevant to ours trials on Earth and the work we have to do to return to our Father in Heaven when this is all done. Personally I think one of the reasons we don't have an answer to that question, as well as many others, is that we aren't able to contemplate it in this state.

                                                                                          Firstly I was raised in the LDS church so it's always been the normal thing for me. Don't misinterpret that to mean I'm blind. I rejected the church for many of my teenage years, I stopped going, had fights with my parents on the subjects of propaganda and brainwashing. Ultimately the thing that brought me back to church was I ended up chasing a girl there.

                                                                                          What would you consider the 'traditional' teachings to be? As far as I know you are not of any particular denomination. The reason the LDS church is not in the council of churches or whatever it is is because we believe the trinity are 3 separate beings, which to me, using only the bible, makes complete sense, how it could be interpreted otherwise is beyond me. That is one big reason, another would also be where does it say in the bible that all revelation ends with the bible? Finally and I saved the best for last, answer to prayers and testimony.

                                                                                          Resurrection.


                                                                                          Just to clarify off the bat, I wasn't quite sure for some time what denomination my church fell under. Turns out the denomination it falls under is the same as it's name. =/
                                                                                          That makes me a part of the Christian Missionary Alliance denomination. We have about 1 million members in the US, and 10 million worldwide (so 90% of our members are in other parts of the world. which I suppose makes sense since we've got an emphasis on mission work).

                                                                                          I've never heard of this "council of churches." But to me, traditional teachings revolve around a few things that the LDS church doesn't agree with:

                                                                                          1) Marry was a virgin
                                                                                          (LDS teaches that Mary was impregnated by God in his physical form, meaning that she wouldn't be a virgin)

                                                                                          2) There was nothing before God, and there never has, and never will be any other gods
                                                                                          (LDS teaches that God was once a man, and ascended into "Godhood", and that if you follow the techings you yourself will become a God one day as well)

                                                                                          3) God and man have always been two different beings, and will always be two different beings. God is made out of "God stuff," and man is made out of "Man stuff," if you will.
                                                                                          (Again, LDS teaches that God was once a man, and that you may someday become a God yourself)

                                                                                          4) People who don't believe in God go to hell. People who do believe in God go to heaven.
                                                                                          (LDS teaches that there are three heavens [Cellestial Kingdom, Terrestrial Kingdom, and Telestial Kingdom] and one "hell" [called Outer Darkness]. Only ExMormons who speak out against Mormonism, Satan, and Satan's followers are sent to "Outer Darkness" [hell]. Even Hitler is not sent to Outer Darkness [assuming he isn't an ExMormon or a Satanist]. Hitler is instead sent to the Telestial Kingdom, which is a paradise. Basically, though, you can do whatever you want in this life and still end up in paradise.)

                                                                                          5) God does not live in this Universe, and no matter how hard you look, or how far you travel in this universe, you will not come face to face with God.
                                                                                          (LDS preaches that God resides on Kolob, a planet somewhere in this Universe)

                                                                                          6) As far as I know, the LDS church is the only one of the Christian denominations to claim that the Bible is corrupt, and is the only one to put forth another "perfect book" in it's stead. I don't know everything about all of the Christian denominations though, so the LDS church might not be the only one.


                                                                                          Most importantly though, the Mormon teachings preach that there has been Gods before "God the Father" (the God that dwells over this universe), which contradicts traditional Christian beliefs, which state that there has only ever been one God, and there will only ever be one God.

                                                                                          #45   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                            Posted 18 October 2009 - 12:56 AM

                                                                                            View PostToasty, on Oct 18 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

                                                                                            Just to clarify off the bat, I wasn't quite sure for some time what denomination my church fell under. Turns out the denomination it falls under is the same as it's name. =/
                                                                                            That makes me a part of the Christian Missionary Alliance denomination. We have about 1 million members in the US, and 10 million worldwide (so 90% of our members are in other parts of the world. which I suppose makes sense since we've got an emphasis on mission work).

                                                                                            I've never heard of this "council of churches." But to me, traditional teachings revolve around a few things that the LDS church doesn't agree with:

                                                                                            World Council of Churches[/b

                                                                                            1) Marry was a virgin
                                                                                            (LDS teaches that Mary was impregnated by God in his physical form, meaning that she wouldn't be a virgin)

                                                                                            Where do we teach that?


                                                                                            2) There was nothing before God, and there never has, and never will be any other gods
                                                                                            (LDS teaches that God was once a man, and ascended into "Godhood", and that if you follow the techings you yourself will become a God one day as well)

                                                                                            With these kinds of questions such as the 'where did it all begin' I don't know, there may be a doctrinal answer out there but I don't have enough knowledge. I would assume that when the bible and such speak about this it means in our existence, with our god. Expanding on this is a tricky matter because I don't know where God resides exactly or what it is made out of. During this post I went and did a bit of googling on this, read this Kolob, and this Pluarlity of Gods and maybe that can give you satisfactory answers to 2 and 5.


                                                                                            3) God and man have always been two different beings, and will always be two different beings. God is made out of "God stuff," and man is made out of "Man stuff," if you will.
                                                                                            (Again, LDS teaches that God was once a man, and that you may someday become a God yourself)

                                                                                            I agree with you, but as resurrected being we have a physical body of flesh and bone. But what are we missing? Blood. We are human beings with physical bodies while they are resurrected beings with perfect bodies.

                                                                                            4) People who don't believe in God go to hell. People who do believe in God go to heaven.
                                                                                            (LDS teaches that there are three heavens [Celestial Kingdom, Terrestrial Kingdom, and Telestial Kingdom] and one "hell" [called Outer Darkness]. Only ExMormons who speak out against Mormonism, Satan, and Satan's followers are sent to "Outer Darkness" [hell]. Even Hitler is not sent to Outer Darkness [assuming he isn't an ExMormon or a Satanist]. Hitler is instead sent to the Telestial Kingdom, which is a paradise. Basically, though, you can do whatever you want in this life and still end up in paradise.)

                                                                                            Doctrine and Covenants 76
                                                                                            If you still have some questions after reading all of that, tell me.


                                                                                            5) God does not live in this Universe, and no matter how hard you look, or how far you travel in this universe, you will not come face to face with God.
                                                                                            (LDS preaches that God resides on Kolob, a planet somewhere in this Universe)

                                                                                            See question 2

                                                                                            6) As far as I know, the LDS church is the only one of the Christian denominations to claim that the Bible is corrupt, and is the only one to put forth another "perfect book" in it's stead. I don't know everything about all of the Christian denominations though, so the LDS church might not be the only one.
                                                                                            Most importantly though, the Mormon teachings preach that there has been Gods before "God the Father" (the God that dwells over this universe), which contradicts traditional Christian beliefs, which state that there has only ever been one God, and there will only ever be one God.

                                                                                            [b]As far as the bible question goes, read this.
                                                                                            And you pretty much just re asked a question in the end bit there.

                                                                                            Now Daniel. Please actually read what I put before you. I know that putting down a bunch of links may seem a bit of a cop out, but they can answer your questions better then my small amount of knowledge and opinions can. If you have any more questions or quarrels or anything just ask, but please read first, otherwise it'll just waste both our time.


                                                                                            #46   Lemontime 

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                                                                                              Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:07 PM

                                                                                              Religion is messed up..

                                                                                              #47   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                Posted 07 February 2010 - 09:30 PM

                                                                                                I believus in jeebus on a stick.

                                                                                                Thas' all.

                                                                                                </topic respawn>

                                                                                                #48   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                  Posted 07 February 2010 - 09:47 PM

                                                                                                  Previous views updated.

                                                                                                  I now identify as a secular humanist. Haiti has shaken what limited faith I had in God.

                                                                                                  #49   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                    Posted 07 February 2010 - 11:01 PM

                                                                                                    Society in general has shaken what limited faith I had in God.

                                                                                                    #50   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                      Posted 08 February 2010 - 12:33 AM

                                                                                                      I like how people think God doesn't exist because shit happens.

                                                                                                      #51   Nosferatu 

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                                                                                                        Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:52 AM

                                                                                                        Why anybody ever HAD faith in a god is beyond me.

                                                                                                        #52   Laharl 

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                                                                                                          Posted 08 February 2010 - 05:50 AM

                                                                                                          View PostGolden Legacy, on Feb 8 2010, 03:47 AM, said:

                                                                                                          Haiti has shaken what limited faith I had in God.


                                                                                                          not the best choice of words xD

                                                                                                          #53   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                            Posted 08 February 2010 - 12:18 PM

                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Feb 8 2010, 02:33 AM, said:

                                                                                                            I like how people think God doesn't exist because shit happens.

                                                                                                            Well, how do you explain that 200,000 people were wiped out, 3 million homeless - people who already had nothing previously? It's not just Haiti, but events like this that make me wonder why God exists if he is so 'merciful'.

                                                                                                            I'm not being cynical. I just genuinely need an answer for this, and I've yet to find one.

                                                                                                            View PostLaharl, on Feb 8 2010, 07:50 AM, said:

                                                                                                            not the best choice of words xD

                                                                                                            How so?

                                                                                                            #54   Caael 

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                                                                                                              Posted 08 February 2010 - 12:37 PM

                                                                                                              View PostGolden Legacy, on Feb 8 2010, 07:18 PM, said:

                                                                                                              How so?


                                                                                                              Shaken...XD

                                                                                                              Atheist here with no other way about it. Logical and easy to comprehend. Loves it.

                                                                                                              #55   Nosferatu 

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                                                                                                                Posted 08 February 2010 - 01:27 PM

                                                                                                                View PostGolden Legacy, on Feb 8 2010, 10:18 AM, said:

                                                                                                                Well, how do you explain that 200,000 people were wiped out, 3 million homeless - people who already had nothing previously?

                                                                                                                Shifting of plates in the Earth.

                                                                                                                #56   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                  • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                  Posted 08 February 2010 - 01:42 PM

                                                                                                                  I lol'd.

                                                                                                                  But seriously, we have faith, people bitch at us. We don't have faith, people scoff at us.

                                                                                                                  Can't we have our own religions and not have peoples getting on our cases? DDD: *angst*

                                                                                                                  #57   Aquamarine 

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                                                                                                                    • AKA Niko Bellic

                                                                                                                    Posted 08 February 2010 - 03:29 PM

                                                                                                                    View PostGolden Legacy, on Feb 8 2010, 07:18 PM, said:

                                                                                                                    Well, how do you explain that 200,000 people were wiped out, 3 million homeless - people who already had nothing previously? It's not just Haiti, but events like this that make me wonder why God exists if he is so 'merciful'.

                                                                                                                    I'm not being cynical. I just genuinely need an answer for this, and I've yet to find one.


                                                                                                                    Maybe He is simply trying to balance out the number of humans on our planet. Because let's be honest here; The less people alive, the better.

                                                                                                                    #58   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                      Posted 12 February 2010 - 12:34 AM

                                                                                                                      View PostGolden Legacy, on Feb 9 2010, 05:18 AM, said:

                                                                                                                      Well, how do you explain that 200,000 people were wiped out, 3 million homeless - people who already had nothing previously? It's not just Haiti, but events like this that make me wonder why God exists if he is so 'merciful'.

                                                                                                                      I'm not being cynical. I just genuinely need an answer for this, and I've yet to find one.
                                                                                                                      How so?

                                                                                                                      Deut. 4
                                                                                                                      40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the dearth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.

                                                                                                                      Deut. 7
                                                                                                                      9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

                                                                                                                      Prov. 2: 22
                                                                                                                      22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

                                                                                                                      2 Ne. 1: 20
                                                                                                                      20 And he hath said that: Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence.

                                                                                                                      Seeing how my faith is treated on this board (don't worry I cop about the same at work) I'm not going into a full blown out answer, basically the world is getting more and more wicked and the spirit of God is being withdrawn, until the second coming. Well that's it in my head anyway. And I'm not saying that all 270,000 people or whatever in Haiti or the Boxing Day Tsunami or 9/11 or anything were all evil and needed to die. Shit happens, get over it. Everyone here is old enough to know that life isn't a fairytale.

                                                                                                                      #59   Laharl 

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                                                                                                                        Posted 12 February 2010 - 05:06 AM

                                                                                                                        quoting from Religious text is effectively trying pass opinion off as fact, despite it not actually proving anything.

                                                                                                                        And whilst you may say

                                                                                                                        Quote

                                                                                                                        And I'm not saying that all 270,000 people or whatever in Haiti or the Boxing Day Tsunami or 9/11 or anything were all evil and needed to die


                                                                                                                        the very quotes you provided contradict this

                                                                                                                        Quote

                                                                                                                        Prov. 2: 22
                                                                                                                        22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

                                                                                                                        2 Ne. 1: 20
                                                                                                                        20 And he hath said that: Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence.


                                                                                                                        a true Christian, your family must be so proud

                                                                                                                        #60   Mallick 

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                                                                                                                          Posted 12 February 2010 - 01:34 PM

                                                                                                                          View PostLaharl, on Feb 12 2010, 03:06 AM, said:

                                                                                                                          quoting from Religious text is effectively trying pass opinion off as fact, despite it not actually proving anything.

                                                                                                                          And whilst you may say



                                                                                                                          the very quotes you provided contradict this



                                                                                                                          a true Christian, your family must be so proud

                                                                                                                          Well, he was saying it in response to GL's question of why a loving God would kill so many people. I saw a bunch of religious texts and stopped reading, but he had a reason for posting said religious bs.

                                                                                                                          #61   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                            • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                            Posted 12 February 2010 - 01:47 PM

                                                                                                                            I feel like the whole "if god is so loving, then why did he let this happen?" is kinda childish.

                                                                                                                            Have any of you ever been disciplined by your parents?

                                                                                                                            Have any of you given someone the silent treatment so that a certain person would finally talk to you and see what's wrong?

                                                                                                                            It's the same concept. I guess I can't say that I like it, or that it's effective, and maybe its my interpretation. But that's what I was raised to believe, and that's the only explanation I've got. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

                                                                                                                            and btw, the whole "SO STUFF THAT IN YOUR FACE AND SUCK IT, CHRISTIAN B*TCH" attitude is just as effective as Christians telling non-believers that they're going to hell. But seriously, just because someone believes something completely different to you, doesn't mean that their ideology is inferior. its just an ideology. Its not science. It cannot be proven. We cannot prove that God exists. But neither can you prove that he doesn't. As a general note to everyone, there's no reason to get defensive here.

                                                                                                                            #62   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                              Posted 12 February 2010 - 01:56 PM

                                                                                                                              I do believe in God since recently. Does this make me a better person?

                                                                                                                              #63   Laharl 

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                                                                                                                                Posted 12 February 2010 - 02:57 PM

                                                                                                                                View PostIcy, on Feb 12 2010, 07:47 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                and btw, the whole "SO STUFF THAT IN YOUR FACE AND SUCK IT, CHRISTIAN B*TCH" attitude is just as effective as Christians telling non-believers that they're going to hell.


                                                                                                                                who's saying that?

                                                                                                                                That's just the classic Christian counter arguement, and its not very good one.

                                                                                                                                #64   TheEnglishman 

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                                                                                                                                  Posted 12 February 2010 - 06:14 PM

                                                                                                                                  I'm agnostic. I can't honestly just write off everything single thing about religion even if there are aspects which I have to question. I believe a God could exist, even if some of his actions are confusing.
                                                                                                                                  Plus, atheists are pretty annoying. :P

                                                                                                                                  #65   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                    • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                    Posted 12 February 2010 - 08:31 PM

                                                                                                                                    I guess I believe in the basic Christian faith-- God, and the resurrection of Jesus. But a religion that tells me how to worship and how to live my life is not something I wanna associate with. I believe in God, but I guess I don't really have a religion.

                                                                                                                                    #66   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                      Posted 12 February 2010 - 10:24 PM

                                                                                                                                      I dont shove my atheism in everybody's face like society would lead us to believe. If asked, I state my reasons. Simple. If anything, I think those atheists who do show off their lack of religion is a response to other religions and their biggotry and refusal to see any other way as well. It does work both ways but it's influenced mainly by one side.

                                                                                                                                      #67   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                        Posted 13 February 2010 - 12:36 AM

                                                                                                                                        View PostLaharl, on Feb 12 2010, 10:06 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                        quoting from Religious text is effectively trying pass opinion off as fact, despite it not actually proving anything.

                                                                                                                                        And whilst you may say
                                                                                                                                        the very quotes you provided contradict this
                                                                                                                                        a true Christian, your family must be so proud

                                                                                                                                        This is why I didn't want to repost, but seeing as it was GL I thought I would.
                                                                                                                                        Firstly, you claim Scripture to be false, your opinion. I believe in God and the Scriptures to be the word of God, so yea in my head it's fact.

                                                                                                                                        And yea I said that, it doesn't contradict. I said that not all the people who died were wicked, and the Scripture I provided said that the wicked must be removed from the Earth.
                                                                                                                                        Sometimes the righteous must die so:

                                                                                                                                        Rev. 6: 10
                                                                                                                                        10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

                                                                                                                                        2 Ne. 26: 3
                                                                                                                                        3 And after the Messiah shall come there shall be signs given unto my people of his birth, and also of his death and resurrection; and great and terrible shall that day be unto the wicked, for they shall perish; and they perish because they cast out the prophets, and the saints, and stone them, and slay them; wherefore the cry of the blood of the saints shall ascend up to God from the ground against them.

                                                                                                                                        Alma 14: 11
                                                                                                                                        11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.


                                                                                                                                        Seeing how I wasn't sarcastic or belittling in responding to you, you could do the same, and also tell me why I'm a bad Christian.

                                                                                                                                        And how about next time anyone on here wants to piss on my beliefs you remember I'm LDS. Not Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah Witness, Anglican or any of that. I don't care about the Crusades and the actions of corrupt Churches founded on the actions and desires of men. So anything negative you feel about God or Religion because of Religions or Christian Denominations that I don't believe in, I don't care. Keep it to yourself. I don't push my beliefs on anyone, if I'm asked a question or it's a topic where you can share your beliefs then I'll have my say, otherwise I keep to myself yet people, online and IRL, have the audacity to try and ridicule me and my way of life.

                                                                                                                                        #68   Nosferatu 

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                                                                                                                                          Posted 13 February 2010 - 01:46 AM

                                                                                                                                          View PostDiddy Kong, on Feb 12 2010, 11:56 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                          I do believe in God since recently. Does this make me a better person?

                                                                                                                                          No.

                                                                                                                                          #69   Laharl 

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                                                                                                                                            Posted 13 February 2010 - 03:08 PM

                                                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Feb 13 2010, 06:36 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                            This is why I didn't want to repost, but seeing as it was GL I thought I would.
                                                                                                                                            Firstly, you claim Scripture to be false, your opinion. I believe in God and the Scriptures to be the word of God, so yea in my head it's fact.


                                                                                                                                            I make my claims through logic, not through what i've been spoon fed.

                                                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Feb 13 2010, 06:36 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                            And yea I said that, it doesn't contradict. I said that not all the people who died were wicked, and the Scripture I provided said that the wicked must be removed from the Earth.


                                                                                                                                            er...yes it does....unless words have completely different meanings in your holy text

                                                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Feb 13 2010, 06:36 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                            Sometimes the righteous must die so:

                                                                                                                                            Rev. 6: 10
                                                                                                                                            10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

                                                                                                                                            2 Ne. 26: 3
                                                                                                                                            3 And after the Messiah shall come there shall be signs given unto my people of his birth, and also of his death and resurrection; and great and terrible shall that day be unto the wicked, for they shall perish; and they perish because they cast out the prophets, and the saints, and stone them, and slay them; wherefore the cry of the blood of the saints shall ascend up to God from the ground against them.

                                                                                                                                            Alma 14: 11
                                                                                                                                            11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.


                                                                                                                                            defend ambiguous religious quotes with more ambiguous religious quotes; what a fantastic idea!

                                                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Feb 13 2010, 06:36 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                            Seeing how I wasn't sarcastic or belittling in responding to you, you could do the same, and also tell me why I'm a bad Christian.


                                                                                                                                            only if you point out where i specifically said you were a bad Christian

                                                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Feb 13 2010, 06:36 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                            And how about next time anyone on here wants to piss on my beliefs you remember I'm LDS. Not Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah Witness, Anglican or any of that. I don't care about the Crusades and the actions of corrupt Churches founded on the actions and desires of men. So anything negative you feel about God or Religion because of Religions or Christian Denominations that I don't believe in, I don't care. Keep it to yourself. I don't push my beliefs on anyone, if I'm asked a question or it's a topic where you can share your beliefs then I'll have my say, otherwise I keep to myself yet people, online and IRL, have the audacity to try and ridicule me and my way of life.


                                                                                                                                            i dont give a shit what religion you are, im only responding to your posts; which are you molding your dogma into whatever shape is necessary

                                                                                                                                            #70   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                              • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                              Posted 13 February 2010 - 03:37 PM

                                                                                                                                              Oh yeah, sarcasm is a surefire, non-offensive way to make others change their minds. Brilliant strategy.

                                                                                                                                              #71   Laharl 

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                                                                                                                                                • AKA Dullahan

                                                                                                                                                Posted 13 February 2010 - 03:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                i don't recall telling anyone to change their religion, oh thats right its impossible to have a debate without such stupid accusations

                                                                                                                                                #72   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                  • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                  Posted 13 February 2010 - 06:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                  Then why debate whether or not his reasoning for his religion is valid in the first place if you're not trying to change their opinion? A debate is where you try to prove your point over somebody else's and change the mind of the person you're debating with.

                                                                                                                                                  Although, technically, this is "YOUR faith/religion" not "What do you think about other people's religions?" So there's no reason for a debate even.

                                                                                                                                                  #73   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                    Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                    James have you ever had a sincere prayer? Or are you one of those people (and I've done it as well) who decides before or without trying/experiencing something that they don't like it? Because I've lived in and out of the Church, and as cliché as it may sound, living outside it and knowing what I was missing, I felt wrong inside, like something was, and it was, missing.

                                                                                                                                                    The only two parts of your post where I'm choosing to answer.
                                                                                                                                                    Spoon Fed, I haven't always gone to church and I haven't always believed in it. There was a part a few years ago where I cut of all ties and tried to get my mates to do the same. Only reason I was back was cos I was chasing a girl. I chose to stay, I choose to read my scriptures and to go on a mission, I'm not a weak enough personality to be lead like a sheep.

                                                                                                                                                    And the bit where you said
                                                                                                                                                    "a true Christian, your family must be so proud"
                                                                                                                                                    Seeing how heavily you rely on sarcasm, you're mocking me as a Christian, implying I'm not a true/good Christian, therefore must be a false/bad one, seeing how false doesn't really work in this case, I'm going with bad.

                                                                                                                                                    If you want to say I'm coping out or whatever, then this:
                                                                                                                                                    Matt. 7: 6
                                                                                                                                                    6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

                                                                                                                                                    #74   Nosferatu 

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                                                                                                                                                      Posted 13 February 2010 - 11:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                      This arguement is stupid. Quoting scripture is about the same as using IGN's reviews as a way of telling if a game is good or not. Biased to all hell.

                                                                                                                                                      Icy, shush.
                                                                                                                                                      MBW, put a dick in it.
                                                                                                                                                      Laharl, brofist.

                                                                                                                                                      #75   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                        Posted 14 February 2010 - 08:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                        Laharl:

                                                                                                                                                        http://www.bleh.at/images/internet-high-five-place-hand-here.jpg

                                                                                                                                                        #76   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                          Posted 14 February 2010 - 11:18 AM

                                                                                                                                                          I agree. I was looking at some of my older posts when I used to debate on the God side and quoting scripture just went in one ear and out the other.

                                                                                                                                                          I just don't get WHY we have to debate religion.

                                                                                                                                                          And hon, shush yourself :P

                                                                                                                                                          #77   Laharl 

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                                                                                                                                                            • AKA Dullahan

                                                                                                                                                            Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Feb 14 2010, 01:59 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                            Seeing how heavily you rely on sarcasm, you're mocking me as a Christian, implying I'm not a true/good Christian, therefore must be a false/bad one, seeing how false doesn't really work in this case, I'm going with bad.


                                                                                                                                                            actually i wasn't being sarcastic, you were acting like a typical Christian to me, hence the comment

                                                                                                                                                            #78   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                              • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                              Posted 14 February 2010 - 01:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                              nice stereotype.

                                                                                                                                                              Can't we have a debate without name-calling and generalizations? Or, for the third fucking time, WHY do you both feel the need to debate this in the first place?`

                                                                                                                                                              #79   Laharl 

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                                                                                                                                                                • AKA Dullahan

                                                                                                                                                                Posted 14 February 2010 - 02:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                because there's no Golden Sun debate :b

                                                                                                                                                                #80   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                  • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  LOL ALEX TOTALLY ISNT DEAD YET LOLOLOL.

                                                                                                                                                                  sorry. Had to.

                                                                                                                                                                  That made me smile. You win grace points, my friend.

                                                                                                                                                                  I remember one guy who was convinced he could use alchemy, a long time ago on the forum. I guess that's some sort of religion, eh?

                                                                                                                                                                  #81   Someone Else 

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                                                                                                                                                                    • AKA Wind Dude (WD)

                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    Well you can say alchemy does exist, it just depends on what you mean by it...

                                                                                                                                                                    If he meant the FMA one then he's nuts.

                                                                                                                                                                    #82   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      Alchemy= Chemistry. Which is science. Not religion.

                                                                                                                                                                      #83   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                        • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 26 March 2010 - 02:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        Nah, I meant like the GS alchemy. I tried to find the post but he was convinced that because birds don't poop on him that he was a wind adept. I'm serious...

                                                                                                                                                                        As for faith and religion: I hereby abandon God and Christianity.

                                                                                                                                                                        I'm going to hell, I can't change who I am, and I'm tired of defending something that hasn't even shown me that it exists.

                                                                                                                                                                        I really have to laugh out loud at the stupidity and arrogance of my former self: post from 2005 religion topic

                                                                                                                                                                        hello atheism.

                                                                                                                                                                        #84   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                          • AKA Fire Dude, Diddy Kong

                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 26 March 2010 - 05:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          We all have a conscience, so at the least, each and everyone is a bit spiritual. For some it works, for some it doesn't work. That doesn't mean that for example, a family who goes to church is better than one who doesn't. I think it's all about how you use your spirituality in daily life, for the lack of better words.

                                                                                                                                                                          Athiest, Christian, Muslim or whatever religion or not, there are good and bad people. Wise and foolish people. Everywhere, in every part of the world and in every area in life.

                                                                                                                                                                          Thats just my 3 cents.

                                                                                                                                                                          #85   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                            • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 26 March 2010 - 06:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            Funny. Now that I've denied the existance of God, I can't bring myself to kill myself, because I fear Hell too much.

                                                                                                                                                                            I don't know what I am, in religious terms. But I do know I'm an awful person.

                                                                                                                                                                            #86   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              'Evil' is a facade, and only accounts for one side of a larger scale. That's the main reason I disagree with religion, as it puts itself as the only point of view and doesnt consider any others. Hence my atheism.

                                                                                                                                                                              #87   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                                • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                so you don't believe in a good or a bad? just existence, correct?

                                                                                                                                                                                #88   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  Good and bad are opinions forced upon us various mediums; religion, the media etc. I think it's oppressive to force people into a certain slanted viewpoint.

                                                                                                                                                                                  As for the existance thing, yeah pretty much. I dont see any other way around it. No part of a higher plan, no pawns in a giant game. We are because we do, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Although I do find the theory that everything in the universe is code for higher beings very interesting, as absurd as it is.

                                                                                                                                                                                  #89   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostIcy, on Mar 26 2010, 04:03 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm going to hell, I can't change who I am, and I'm tired of defending something that hasn't even shown me that it exists.

                                                                                                                                                                                    I really have to laugh out loud at the stupidity and arrogance of my former self: post from 2005 religion topic

                                                                                                                                                                                    hello atheism.

                                                                                                                                                                                    I think that those who would force you to defend yourself and compromise your own identity aren't being true to their religion... I think, inherently, the underlying premise of religion can be a positive force. The message is unfortunately turned into something divisive, critical, and quite strict.

                                                                                                                                                                                    As Gandhi put it: "I like your Christ. I do not like you Christians. You Christians are so unlike your Christ."

                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostCaael, on Mar 26 2010, 09:10 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                    Good and bad are opinions forced upon us various mediums; religion, the media etc. I think it's oppressive to force people into a certain slanted viewpoint.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Cosign.

                                                                                                                                                                                    #90   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                                      • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      Huh. All my life I've had something to live by, something to plan for and a creed to act on. I feel a bit lost without that...

                                                                                                                                                                                      I suppose I pretty much dictate what I do when I want to do and such. But as for what I think of myself and others, I don't know how to think without a standard to go by.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Heh. Religion has really turned me into a robotic tard.

                                                                                                                                                                                      #91   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Cosign?

                                                                                                                                                                                        #92   Ironsight 

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                                                                                                                                                                                          • AKA Darksword

                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostCaael, on Mar 26 2010, 06:25 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                          Cosign?

                                                                                                                                                                                          Math.

                                                                                                                                                                                          #93   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Do explain.

                                                                                                                                                                                            #94   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostCaael, on Mar 26 2010, 09:25 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Cosign?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Way of saying, "I agree". Saw it elsewhere and I've become addicted to the term.

                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostDarksword, on Mar 26 2010, 09:26 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Math.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I lol'd.

                                                                                                                                                                                              #95   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                One thing I do hate about atheists sometimes is the superiority complex they get towards other religions. I cant remember the name, but one (in)famous atheist said something along the lines of 'evolution proves that all religion is false'. I cant think of a more biggoted thing to say; denouncing the majority of the world as idiots because of a theory. I try not to come across as one of the bigheaded atheists; I usually keep it to myself unless asked because its becoming a frequent stereotype that we have a superiority complex.

                                                                                                                                                                                                #96   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 26 March 2010 - 08:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hate to say it, but that's the impression I tended to get from the majority of my interactions with atheists. But I will say my reasoning and logic for the existence of God has been flawed on many occasions. Only took me 19 years to see this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  #97   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 26 March 2010 - 09:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostGolden Legacy, on Mar 26 2010, 07:28 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Way of saying, "I agree". Saw it elsewhere and I've become addicted to the term.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ya, it's a pretty common term amongst rap/internet communities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    and caael, are you a nihilist?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    #98   Ironsight 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      • AKA Darksword

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 26 March 2010 - 11:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostThankMeLater, on Mar 26 2010, 08:25 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ya, it's a pretty common term amongst rap/internet communities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      and caael, are you a nihilist?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Probably. That's what all the cool kids are doing right now, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      #99   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 27 March 2010 - 06:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nope, not a nihilist. I dont tend to think of any bigger picture and just live for now instead of fretting about what could or couldn't be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        #100   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostLaharl, on Feb 12 2010, 04:06 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          quoting from Religious text is effectively trying pass opinion off as fact, despite it not actually proving anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          And whilst you may say
                                                                                                                                                                                                          the very quotes you provided contradict this
                                                                                                                                                                                                          a true Christian, your family must be so proud


                                                                                                                                                                                                          GL asked for an answer to why God would allow something like the earthquake in Haiti to happen. Watch responded with text from the Bible which is, according to Christianity, God's own word.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          You sir, need to stfu. And yeah, I realize how old the post is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostCaael, on Mar 26 2010, 06:54 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          One thing I do hate about atheists sometimes is the superiority complex they get towards other religions. I cant remember the name, but one (in)famous atheist said something along the lines of 'evolution proves that all religion is false'. I cant think of a more biggoted thing to say; denouncing the majority of the world as idiots because of a theory. I try not to come across as one of the bigheaded atheists; I usually keep it to myself unless asked because its becoming a frequent stereotype that we have a superiority complex.


                                                                                                                                                                                                          I can respect that.



                                                                                                                                                                                                          As for the reason I believe in my religion, it's because I spend a lot of time thinking. All that time I've spent thinking has led me to realize exactly where in life a "sinful nature" will get me. I also have grown to dislike hating people and things. I'll still get frustrated from time to time, but whenever I find myself hating anything, I always feel disgusted with myself afterwards for being so stupid. I mean really, when you think about it, there are very few actual good reasons to hate anything, and it's absurdly idiotic to hate anything outside of those circumstances.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Another reason for my religious views, is that contrary to popular belief, the bible actually has a lot of common sense which isn't even directly related to religion. And by that, I mean that it's applicable to everyday life regardless of your religious beliefs. Things like not stealing, or committing adultery come to mind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          As far as the bible being corrupted because it's been edited so many times by humans, I believe that God wouldn't allow that to happen to what is basically his own words written down on paper. That said, whether or not Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) being real or not is concerned, I'd rather believe in it than take a chance of it not existing. The old "atheist clause" if you will.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          And I say that because honestly, whether or not God exists, religion has made me feel better about myself, and causes me to strive for better things than to waste my time on things that I know for a fact will never even amount to anything tangible here on earth, let alone in heaven.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          That said, I've been through a lot of things in my life, and have seen things that have happened to other people, which has given me undeniable proof (in my eyes) that god exists.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just recently in fact, a friend of mine (who will likely become my sister in law some day) got into a car wreck. Her car rolled over quite few times. It was the kind of wreck that most people don't even survive from. But she said that the whole time, she was praying for God to protect her. And you know what? She got out of that car with only a few scratches. The doctors even said she'd be sore all over for a while, but she woke up today only experiencing an ache in her neck.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          The crash happened just yesterday, by the way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          #101   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Another reason for my religious views, is that contrary to popular belief, the bible actually has a lot of common sense which isn't even directly related to religion. And by that, I mean that it's applicable to everyday life regardless of your religious beliefs. Things like not stealing, or committing adultery come to mind.


                                                                                                                                                                                                            But that's part of why I disagree with it; how it can so flatly state that things are wrong with no which way around them. Hypothetically consider stealing ( assuming ceteris parabus); I know its a cliched and widely used example but consider the man who needs to steal food for his starving family. He will be looked down on by society because he stole which is against many creeds, and ignore the fact it was out of desperation. Is this how society should see those less fortunate?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            #102   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Religion and evolution actually go togheter, if you look at it the right way you'll see that it's both basically the same thing. And why? Cause we as humankind simply don't have all the answers. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                              #103   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostDiddy Kong, on Mar 28 2010, 05:23 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Religion and evolution actually go togheter, if you look at it the right way you'll see that it's both basically the same thing. And why? Cause we as humankind simply don't have all the answers. :D


                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yet

                                                                                                                                                                                                                #104   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  we will never have all the answers. even if god came down in front of the entire world on national tv and made world hunger go away, there's nothing from stopping it all from being a computer program.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  technological singularity (when artificial intelligence passes our own) will be reached by 2045... if we can make a fake world by 2045, what makes you think we aren't already in one?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 28 March 2010 - 09:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thats trippy...o.O I've always thought someone was playing around my life. There are too many ironic instances, like where the past seems to repeat itself...and numbers! Important things happen on dates that involve the numbers 2, 8 and 10. It would take me a long time to explain it, but yeah.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I guess I've been thinking about it and I can't force myself not to believe something, just as you can't force someone TO believe something. So I guess I retain my faith and just hope that I'll be a good enough person to not end up in hell. For right now I'm back to believing in God.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, I know, I'm indecisive :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #106   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 29 March 2010 - 12:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What kind of church do you go to that makes you so decided that you're going to hell?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #107   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 29 March 2010 - 01:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I just know that i really don't have a "relationship" with Jesus or God, but I believe in them. I also sin a lot and I don't feel bad nor repentant. I feel like if I really did have a relationship, I really did make him "Lord of my life", I would be a much different person. But I like how I am. I like the sins I do and being imperfect, and I don't want to change that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So I suppose I myself have determined through what I've read in the bible that I'm going to hell.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #108   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 29 March 2010 - 02:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Your sins are your own business, but no ones perfect. That's the whole reason Jesus atoned for our sins. I'm not perfect, people here may think cause I'm LDS I'm all awesome and righteous, but I'm not, there's a reason I'm yet to go on my mission. The whole point is trying Icy, fair enough if you don't feel you want to live the gospel or whatever, but don't get discouraged because you make mistakes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #109   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 29 March 2010 - 03:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostThankMeLater, on Mar 28 2010, 02:59 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wwe will never have all the answers. even if god came down in front of the entire world on national tv and made world hunger go away, there's nothing from stopping it all from being a computer program.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            technological singularity (when artificial intelligence passes our own) will be reached by 2045... if we can make a fake world by 2045, what makes you think we aren't already in one?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Now wouldn't that be something? The chances of that happening in that timeframe are too optimistic. Try adding a few more decades, and a major breakthrough somewhere along the way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostCaael, on Mar 28 2010, 03:54 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But that's part of why I disagree with it; how it can so flatly state that things are wrong with no which way around them. Hypothetically consider stealing ( assuming ceteris parabus); I know its a cliched and widely used example but consider the man who needs to steal food for his starving family. He will be looked down on by society because he stole which is against many creeds, and ignore the fact it was out of desperation. Is this how society should see those less fortunate?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The reason why it's bad for the man to steal, is because instead of relying on his own, imperfect, human means to sustain himself, he's supposed to rely on God. It may seem harsh to you for someone to say that what that man is doing is bad, but it's true. I wouldn't think of him as a bad person, but I wouldn't agree with his actions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know a lot of people who have been through hard times. At one point in my old youth pastor's life, he didn't even have enough food to feed his family either. But he prayed about it, and one day, he found a basket of deer meat on his doorstep (he lived in an area that was pretty big into hunting at the time).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The point is, that instead of relying on yourself, you're supposed to rely on God. Or so says the teachings of Christianity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #110   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I really hope you're joking about god just giving people food...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #111   Legolastom 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Fair enough if this was a thread about politics or something, but this is a thread about Religion Tim...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #112   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And it's toasty...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  /facedesk

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #113   Eugine 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostEugine, on Oct 7 2009, 11:41 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, I'm not going to say why my religion is the right one, but I think it is good to tell people about my religious beliefs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I grew up in a house with a Christian mother and a borderline Atheist father. I attended church services nearly every Sunday, but became a bit skeptical about religion, Christianity specifically around age 11.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Went from a Christian to Agnostic to Atheist then back to Christian probably every month. I even looked into other religions. Buddhism is actually awesome! I don't know if was healthy, but I believe it was for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Eventually, after many deliberations, I am now a Christian (Catholic in mind), and has been pleased and happy most of the time. I am actually a big fan of my Priest. Don't know why I am a Christian honestly, but for some reason I have never felt more alive after church and praying. Hey, at least God has been good to me imo.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    All still true for me. Admittedly, I haven't been to church since Christmas Eve and pray once a twice a week (I actually kneel, make the cross then recite the Hail Mary sometimes). I do have to admit that I do not have strong faith. I can't go out of my way saying without doubt there is a God.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Too bad the Catholic church is in yet another embarrassing (and disgusting) scandal, but then, I can say without doubt that I am a bad Christian lol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #114   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 30 March 2010 - 03:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostCaael, on Mar 30 2010, 09:17 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I really hope you're joking about god just giving people food...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In my early years I used to often eat at the table with Joseph the Prophet. At one time he was called to dinner. I being at play in the room with his son Joseph, he called us to him, and we stood one each side of him. After he had looked over the table he said, "Lord, we thank Thee for this Johnny cake, and ask Thee to send us something better. Amen." The corn bread was cut and I received a piece from his hand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Before the bread was all eaten, a man came to the door and asked if the Prophet Joseph was at home. Joseph replied he was, whereupon the visitor said, "I have brought you some flour and a ham."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joseph arose and took the gift, and blessed the man in the name of the Lord. Turning to his wife, Emma, he said, "I knew the Lord would answer my prayer."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sauce

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ICY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Satan, "the father of all lies" (2 Nephi 2:18), "the father of contention" (3 Nephi 11:29), "the author of all sin" (Helaman 6:30), and the "enemy unto God" (Moroni 7:12), uses the forces of evil to convince us that this concept applies whenever we have sinned. The scriptures call him the "accuser" because he wants us to feel that we are beyond forgiveness (see Revelation 12:10). Satan wants us to think that when we have sinned we have gone past a "point of no return"—that it is too late to change our course. In our beautiful but also troubled world, it is a sad reality that this attitude is the source of great sorrow, grief, and distress to families, marriages, and individual lives.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sauce - Is a great talk, the start of it may be useful to you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #115   Caael 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        /facepalm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I hope you dont actually believe that...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Assuming god is real, if he just gave what you asked when you wanted, then why does poverty exist? Why are there billions of people starving in the world? You cant even begin to comprehend the folly of that statement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #116   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 31 March 2010 - 01:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostCaael, on Mar 31 2010, 01:54 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          /facepalm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I hope you dont actually believe that...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Assuming god is real, if he just gave what you asked when you wanted, then why does poverty exist? Why are there billions of people starving in the world? You cant even begin to comprehend the folly of that statement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes Caael, I don't believe an experience that happened to a Prophet...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've heard countless stories in the church of stuff like that happening, one happened to a bloke at my church, they mostly involve paying tithing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          His story was that he either could pay his tithing or buy food for his family*. He paid his tithing and had no food for dinner. Later that night his cousin came over with a bag of food and gave it to him saying he was asleep and woke up, and just had the thought that he needed food.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And I trust this bloke like you would your brother or Tom or one of your IRL mates.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 Ne. 18: 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          20 And whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is right, believing that ye shall receive, behold it shall be given unto you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Matt. 7: 7-8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Matt. 21: 22
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In saying this I'm not angry or picking a fight or anything, but don't assume anything about why I post things, you claim I don't comprehend what I say when out of the two of us I'm the one who believes, goes to church and reads the scriptures, I know what I'm on about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mal. 3: 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #117   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 31 March 2010 - 10:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostCaael, on Mar 30 2010, 07:54 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            /facepalm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I hope you dont actually believe that...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Assuming god is real, if he just gave what you asked when you wanted, then why does poverty exist? Why are there billions of people starving in the world? You cant even begin to comprehend the folly of that statement.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            They may live in poverty, but they're still alive. If you pray for a corvette, you probably won't get it. But if you pray for a way to get to your work on time, you'll probably get it. Understand?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Also, you must realize that not all of those people who are starving or dying from hunger in the world are praying for food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #118   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 31 March 2010 - 10:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Are there any religious people here who think those stories are meant for symbolism and drawing lessons from - not actual events?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #119   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 31 March 2010 - 10:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                GL, did you read what he said? And did you read what I posted earlier? We've both experienced events in our lives where people around us have prayed for food when they were desperate for it, and received it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I also know people who have prayed for financial help and received it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'll also note that most of the situations I've heard of have involved people tithing at the cost of eating, or paying bills. And yes, these are people I personally know as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #120   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 31 March 2010 - 10:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm not asking about personal experiences. I've read the ones you posted earlier. I'm asking specifically about stories that are told in the Bible or any other holy book. Are they meant to be believed that they actually happened or to philosophically draw some "morality" behind them?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Alternate question: Is it possible to take those stories not as real-life events but tales to learn life lessons from? Do you think someone who does this is not a true believer?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I personally think the stories in the Bible are true. However, I think they can be taken as both. I think you can learn real life lessons from them because they happened in real life. Is someone who takes them just as stories not a true believer? Possibly, but that's not necessarily true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The bible isn't a story book. It's a history book. And I know some of you will scoff at that, but hey, you're free to believe what you want. Though calling me stupid or idiotic for believe that isn't a wise thing to do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #122   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 01 April 2010 - 12:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's probably where I began to disagree with organized religion. There are innumerable ways to interpret stories for each individual, there are many languages and ideas and peoples... would there really be only single way to understand a particular aspect of a faith? "It has to be this way, and only this way" (for example, that these stories must have happened, and to deny otherwise makes you evil or a non-believer). What if you draw just as powerful lessons of morality, even if the events themselves did not happen? Have you "failed" somehow morally by choosing not to believe them literally word-for-word, even if you are impacted by them just as powerfully ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #123   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 01 April 2010 - 12:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I never said that not believing they were real makes you evil, or a non-believer. However, I do think that if you don't believe they're true, that there's a possibility you're not a true believer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Though I also just remembered something that I should've mentioned previously. There are stories in the bible which stand alone by themselves, and then there are stories in the bible which are told by people referenced by the bible. The stories which stand by themselves I believe to be true. But I don't believe all the stories which are told be individuals are true. Some of them may be, but some of them aren't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It should also be noted that certain events or places referenced in the bible have been proven to have occurred or existed by archaeologists and historians. They've found remains of what they believe to be the tower of Babel, and most historians believe that Jesus was a real person. Though it should be noted that not all of them believe he was who he said he was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #124   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 01 April 2010 - 01:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostILoveCommunism, on Mar 31 2010, 11:37 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I personally think the stories in the Bible are true. However, I think they can be taken as both. I think you can learn real life lessons from them because they happened in real life. Is someone who takes them just as stories not a true believer? Possibly, but that's not necessarily true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The bible isn't a story book. It's a history book. And I know some of you will scoff at that, but hey, you're free to believe what you want. Though calling me stupid or idiotic for believe that isn't a wise thing to do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you're stupid and idiotic. many of the stories in the bible are just as wild as some of the shit scientologists believe in, and you'd scoff at ANYBODY coming into this topic saying they don't believe in God they believe in... whatever the fuck Scientologists believe in.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #125   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 01 April 2010 - 01:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Any in particular Skidz.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostGolden Legacy, on Apr 1 2010, 03:31 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Are there any religious people here who think those stories are meant for symbolism and drawing lessons from - not actual events?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I try to think why the writers included the story, and what I can draw from it, like the parables that Jesus taught, but I don't doubt Daniel and the lions den or Joseph in Egypt etc happened. Yes the Bible (well at least the Old Testament) is a family record passed down, but every story is there for a reason.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #126   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 01 April 2010 - 02:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The creation story. St. Kevin. The flood. Also...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kings 2:23-24 NKJV

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the Lord. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Samuel 18:25-27 ESV

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Then Saul said, “Thus shall you say to David, ‘The king desires no bride-price except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be avenged of the king’s enemies.’” Now Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines. And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king’s son-in-law. Before the time had expired, David arose and went, along with his men, and killed two hundred of the Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, which were given in full number to the king, that he might become the king’s son-in-law. And Saul gave him his daughter Michal for a wife.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ezekiel 23:19-20 NET

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their genitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Judges 19:22-30

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              While they were making merry, and refreshing their bodies with meat and drink, after the labour of the journey, the men of that city, sons of Belial, (that is, without yoke,) came and beset the old man's house, and began to knock at the door, calling to the master of the house, and saying: Bring forth the man that came into thy house, that we may abuse him. 23 And the old man went out to them, and said: Do not so, my brethren, do not so wickedly: because this man is come into my lodging, and cease I pray you from this folly. 24 I have a maiden daughter, and this man hath a concubine, I will bring them out to you, and you may humble them, and satisfy your lust: only, I beseech you, commit not this crime against nature on the man. 25 They would not be satisfied with his words; which the man seeing, brought out his concubine to them, and abandoned her to their wickedness: and when they had abused her all the night, they let her go in the morning.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And then the story of Job, which has God letting Job get raped by Satan to prove a point? Scientology > this bullshit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #127   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What exactly do you want me to say? Why they happened? What we're supposed to learn? It was a different culture, over 2000 years ago. I don't see you raging on the Greeks for man love, or trying to disprove other ancient cultures. You're not actually challenging doctrine or beliefs, just some odd stories from the Old Testament. An answer? I don't know honestly, I'm happy to talk on the creation, flood or Job, I have no clue who St Kevin is and neither does Google, as for the rest, what exactly do you want me to say?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You claim what we believe in is more far-fetched in Scientology, yet you seem to only have quarrel with some random stories, not the atonement and death of Chris or the plan of salvation or prophets or anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                While you may seem to find the story of Job harsh, what about Isaac and Abraham? We are told we are all to be tried and tested, but nothing to the extent that we are unable to endure, and we are blessed through our trials. Yea it sucked to be him I'll give him that, but he's not the only bloke who has had trials in his life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #128   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 01 April 2010 - 04:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I do not believe most stories in the bible are completly true. But I think you should see them as methaphores of things which could happen in life when choosing the road between good and evil.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And dammit, I understand it a lot less than I would like to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #129   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    View PostMy Best Wishes, on Apr 1 2010, 03:28 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What exactly do you want me to say?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    absolutely nothing. you wanted me to point out particular retarded bible stories that are just as ridiculous as stuff Scientology preaches. i did. i needed no response. and no, i have quarrels with alot more than silly bible stories. i have quarrels with the fact that the christian church are the biggest bunch of ignorant, hypocritical fucks i've ever had to sit and listen to. there could be a higher power out there. i dunno. ill never know. no point in arguing the EXISTENCE of god. my qualms are with the religions that pertain to him. i hope this can clear a bit of my hostility up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ^ logical thinking. taking the bible as complete history is dumb and idiotic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #130   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sometimes the simplest of things take the most effort. Sometimes things just go too deep and lose it's meaning. Things are meant to be simple I think.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Scientology is just.. weird. I cannot judge their ways of coarse cause I make mistakes to but I think they must mean the same thing in concept... The Universe, God, it might actually be the same thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Buddhas also don't believe in a God, but in the Universe for example, and they are about as enlightened as can be. Talking in a stereotype way now ofcoarse.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So I think being a atheist isn't bad either, as long as you still have "it". And of coarse, don't be too materialistic and stuff. Cause I'm talking all good now, but there's still evil, and yes... I personally think that believing in a God and his divine prophets might be a way to overcome this evil, as it / they can inspire you in doing better. Then again, I'm a born and raised atheist, so changing my ways will be difficult.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #131   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostThankMeLater, on Apr 1 2010, 11:06 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        absolutely nothing. you wanted me to point out particular retarded bible stories that are just as ridiculous as stuff Scientology preaches. i did. i needed no response. and no, i have quarrels with alot more than silly bible stories. i have quarrels with the fact that the christian church are the biggest bunch of ignorant, hypocritical fucks i've ever had to sit and listen to. there could be a higher power out there. i dunno. ill never know. no point in arguing the EXISTENCE of god. my qualms are with the religions that pertain to him. i hope this can clear a bit of my hostility up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ^ logical thinking. taking the bible as complete history is dumb and idiotic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My only problem with that though is to me at this stage, those stories don't matter that much to me. What's more important? Believing in Christ and the salvation of man or that Jonah got swallowed up by a whale?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I understand your issues with organised religion, personally I hate the Catholic Church (reach the Church not the believers), there's so many flaws in their history and teachings I don't know how people can believe in what they preach. I guess coming from the LDS church and knowing we are the only true Church on the Earth that I can get what you're saying, but in the end isn't it better that these people believe and are trying to live their lives to a higher standard? Whether or not you guys believe in God surely you can acknowledge that Christianity teaches a higher standard of living that people aspire to?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #132   Ironsight 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostThankMeLater, on Apr 1 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The creation story. St. Kevin. The flood. Also...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kings 2:23-24 NKJV

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the Lord. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Samuel 18:25-27 ESV

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Awesome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #133   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 04 April 2010 - 12:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostThankMeLater, on Apr 1 2010, 05:06 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            absolutely nothing. you wanted me to point out particular retarded bible stories that are just as ridiculous as stuff Scientology preaches. i did. i needed no response. and no, i have quarrels with alot more than silly bible stories. i have quarrels with the fact that the christian church are the biggest bunch of ignorant, hypocritical fucks i've ever had to sit and listen to. there could be a higher power out there. i dunno. ill never know. no point in arguing the EXISTENCE of god. my qualms are with the religions that pertain to him. i hope this can clear a bit of my hostility up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ^ logical thinking. taking the bible as complete history is dumb and idiotic.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Can you give me an example of what makes us/them ignorant and hypocritical? What exactly made you come to that conclusion?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There's a lot of archaeological proof to back up some of the stories in the bible, you know. We happen to have proof that quite a few of the major people talked about in the bible existed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostMy Best Wishes, on Apr 1 2010, 04:13 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My only problem with that though is to me at this stage, those stories don't matter that much to me. What's more important? Believing in Christ and the salvation of man or that Jonah got swallowed up by a whale?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I understand your issues with organised religion, personally I hate the Catholic Church (reach the Church not the believers), there's so many flaws in their history and teachings I don't know how people can believe in what they preach. I guess coming from the LDS church and knowing we are the only true Church on the Earth that I can get what you're saying, but in the end isn't it better that these people believe and are trying to live their lives to a higher standard? Whether or not you guys believe in God surely you can acknowledge that Christianity teaches a higher standard of living that people aspire to?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hey now...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #134   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 04 April 2010 - 02:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostToasty, on Apr 4 2010, 04:56 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey now...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What? That is the churches and members stance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I can respect other people and their beliefs (to a degree, Scientology, Flying Spaghetti Monster excluded) but we believe we are the only true church on the earth, the church Jesus established and taught restored in this dispensation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You seem to know a surprising amount about my faith (however you never did reply to my last post on Mormonism ages ago) I suppose being Christian and American is in your favour. I doubt however you have read Joseph Smith's account of his first vision, I focus on this part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Full Account
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Coming from a divided religious family during a time of "unusual excitement on the subject of religion" he prayed to know which church was right (his family consisting of Methodists and Presbyterian to name some). As I said he prayed to know which was right, it had never occurred to him that they all might be wrong together.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As explained in the Articles of Faith*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There is no negotiation or changing of our beliefs like the Catholics or other Churches, we do not change what be believe to the pleasure of other organised religions.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor, in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed. They were subsequently published in Church periodicals. They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #135   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 04 April 2010 - 02:43 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostMy Best Wishes, on Mar 30 2010, 02:41 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ICY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Satan, "the father of all lies" (2 Nephi 2:18), "the father of contention" (3 Nephi 11:29), "the author of all sin" (Helaman 6:30), and the "enemy unto God" (Moroni 7:12), uses the forces of evil to convince us that this concept applies whenever we have sinned. The scriptures call him the "accuser" because he wants us to feel that we are beyond forgiveness (see Revelation 12:10). Satan wants us to think that when we have sinned we have gone past a "point of no return"—that it is too late to change our course. In our beautiful but also troubled world, it is a sad reality that this attitude is the source of great sorrow, grief, and distress to families, marriages, and individual lives.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sauce - Is a great talk, the start of it may be useful to you.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What I'm talking about is the lack of desire to change my course or ask for forgivness. I know I could change, I know I would be forgiven, I just simply don't want that. Yet I also believe that I won't make it to heaven without it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #136   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 04 April 2010 - 03:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Going to heaven or hell imo shouldn't be worried about when living. You are able to create your own heaven or hell on Earth. What purpose does it have to have lived a life in hell, and then go to heaven when you die?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That way you'd almost be happy you die... Whereas if you live a good life with people you love, you'll be creating your own earthly paradise and surely that'd lead you to heaven as well?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But I personally don't believe in heaven and hell.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #137   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What are your overall views on God and organised religion Diddy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #138   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 04 April 2010 - 12:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Organised religion is good, and bad. It obviously has it's history with genocide, and it still does nowadays. Countless people have been killed in the name of God, that is a fact. Religion creates division when it's not kept simple. And with simple I mean, no fussing about biblical stories and history. Cause the spirit is all the same for all religions anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Christianity is the most corrupted religion in the world nowadays. All the church does nowadays is asking for money from it's people. God is very wrong interpertated by people, so basically... we could do without churches and the likes just as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #139   Mallick 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 04 April 2010 - 02:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I base my views on the bible on a fictitious story. I guess that makes me some sort of Scientologist.... or christian.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        EDIT: @This talk of heaven and hell. http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/04/03...-Explain-Heaven

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 04 April 2010 - 03:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Relevant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          HELL EXPLAINED BY CHEMISTRY STUDENT

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid term.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One student, however, wrote the following:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This gives two possibilities:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So which is it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct......leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          THIS STUDENT RECEIVED AN A+.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #141   Someone Else 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 04 April 2010 - 03:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z84/WindDude/applause.gif

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #142   Mallick 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 04 April 2010 - 04:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Wow that was a nice rewrite of the original.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #143   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                How is that relevant? I interpreted that to be a more smartass answer then anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #144   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's relevant because it's related to religion. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #145   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It was meant almost 100% for humor value. There is some relevance, perhaps, in that it supports the notion that religion and religious text can be interpreted by people differently.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #146   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 05 April 2010 - 05:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      View PostMy Best Wishes, on Apr 4 2010, 02:30 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What? That is the churches and members stance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I can respect other people and their beliefs (to a degree, Scientology, Flying Spaghetti Monster excluded) but we believe we are the only true church on the earth, the church Jesus established and taught restored in this dispensation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You seem to know a surprising amount about my faith (however you never did reply to my last post on Mormonism ages ago) I suppose being Christian and American is in your favour. I doubt however you have read Joseph Smith's account of his first vision, I focus on this part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you can believe that. you'll be wrong, but you can believe that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and on another note.. why can't you expect scientology's flying spaghetti, but you can respect a dude that sends bears at people who call him bald, and a creature that can not be seen or heard that can create anything at the blink of eye? come the fuck on. believe what you want, but dont be so ignorant to point the lack of believability in Scientology's faith when some stories in the Bible are bat shit ridiculous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #147   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 05 April 2010 - 11:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I feel a bit dumb now GL, I got the humerous intent but wasn't sure if you posted it for anything other then that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I love your audacity Chris, it's so cute.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #148   Quacnar 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Athiest until there is proof of God.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #149   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://virtual.tehinterweb.net/livejournal/christianity-demotivator.jpg

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i love that you believe in an invisible spaghetti ball of light/energy/everything-that-ever-was-and-ever-will-be, it's so cute.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #150   Ironsight 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hold on, let me look for my Ohboythisxagain.jpg, please.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #151   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fuck you NIGGER, all i said was he shouldn't be so quick to judge scientologiy, and he had to be a smartass about it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #152   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You know skidz, I have a feeling you might be a little less skeptical if you read up on quantum physics, string theory, and M-theory.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You could suffice to say that God has absolute control over the quantum universe and all 11 of it's dimensions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Since heaven is supposed to not have time, then I'm under the impression that should it exist (which I believe it does), it would have to exist in at least the 4th dimension, though more likely the 5th or above.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #153   Quacnar 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I thought time was the fourth dimension. Or perhaps the fifth...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #154   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Time is the fourth dimension. But if you're in the fourth dimension, you can see the flow of time and observe any point along it, but you don't actually experience time yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #155   Quacnar 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostToasty, on Apr 6 2010, 03:20 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Time is the fourth dimension. But if you're in the fourth dimension, you can see the flow of time and observe any point along it, but you don't actually experience time yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So what are in the other dimensions then?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #156   Mallick 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          View PostMy Best Wishes, on Apr 4 2010, 06:53 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          How is that relevant? I interpreted that to be a more smartass answer then anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #157   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 06 April 2010 - 06:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Please, do go on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #158   Toasty 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 09 April 2010 - 12:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View Postkillercoz, on Apr 6 2010, 01:27 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So what are in the other dimensions then?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.tenthdime.../medialinks.php

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That video does a good job of describing it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #159   Golden Legacy 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 09 April 2010 - 12:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I can vouch for this video. Saw it previously, how it allows you to grasp 10 dimensions is incredible. Mind-blowing stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #160   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 09 April 2010 - 04:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  View PostThankMeLater, on Apr 6 2010, 08:24 AM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fuck you NIGGER, all i said was he shouldn't be so quick to judge scientologiy, and he had to be a smartass about it.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  White people can't really say that word you know...? :joy: Didn't you watch Chris Rock?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My main fuss about this scientology and science being used as the universal wisdom is... all these elements, they work so perfectly and give life as it is to us today. I personally think it's very very possible that (a) God could've created it all, as he's supposed to be the all knowing and all loving.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #161   Quacnar 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 09 April 2010 - 05:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That was rather intense.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #162   I'm Always BROKE 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 09 April 2010 - 05:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What's intense?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      #163   Mallick 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Posted 09 April 2010 - 06:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        View PostMy Best Wishes, on Apr 6 2010, 05:56 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please, do go on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The original was kind of lame but this one, not so much? It actually made me crack a grin?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        #164   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Posted 09 April 2010 - 06:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yea you lost me Percy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          #165   Quacnar 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • AKA killercoz

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Posted 09 April 2010 - 11:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            View PostDiddy Kong, on Apr 9 2010, 07:03 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What's intense?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The tenth dimension video.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            #166   ThankMeLater 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • AKA skidzors, Drizzy Drake, Dipset, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Posted 10 April 2010 - 09:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              View PostDiddy Kong, on Apr 9 2010, 04:59 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              White people can't really say that word you know...? :joy: Didn't you watch Chris Rock?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              you know me brah, i'd never use as a means of insult. and i actually watched part of bring the pain last night to pass out to xD

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Who's more racist, white people or black people? Black people, cause we hate black people too. Me, I love black people.. hate niggas though. Wherever there are black people there's always some ignorant ass niggas around to fuck shit. A nigga'll rob you. A nigga'll live beside you, rob you, then come over the next day and say "i heard you got jacked".


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              classic

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              #167   Mallick 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • AKA Mallick/PDM/GDUB3000/Sir

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Posted 11 April 2010 - 06:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                View PostMy Best Wishes, on Apr 9 2010, 05:41 PM, said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yea you lost me Percy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That's alright. Just keep on assuming I make every post with being an asshole in mind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #168   Lightning Star 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • AKA lightningstar/Icy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Posted 11 April 2010 - 06:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well...it is your specialty...



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  don'thurtmeD:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  lala so yes. Jeebus on a stick. That's where I stand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Wow that's fucked up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  #169   My Best Wishes 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Posted 12 April 2010 - 01:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You know me so well Mike

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    #170   Lukar 

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm agnostic. I think there is a "higher being/authority," but that's it.


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