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Inception spoilers - dont enter if havent seen

#1   ThankMeLater 

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    Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:36 AM

    Somewhat of a late topic, but I'd like to see what you guys think of the ending and some of the unanswered questions.

    Regarding the ending, there's a few things that lead me to believe he is still in a dream world. First, Joseph Gordon-Levitt(right hand man) said that the totem only proves that you're in your original dream, not that it proves you're in reality. Plus, there's also the fact that we never get to see Saito kill Cobb, meaning that Cobb waking up on the plane is his own version of limbo. Watch again; in the airport scene at the end everybody is staring at him.

    The last fact that only confirms my suspicions is that is that despite the children sounding older on the phone, they haven't aged or moved a single inch since Cobb saw them last. They are still in that same position playing on the field, in the exact same clothes he left them in, years later. The kids turning around is merely Cobb's subconscious settling into this new environment, proving that he has finally accepted his fate in limbo. The idea that the ending is reality can't be possible.

    The second thought is that the entire movie has been a dream, and that Mal awoke when she jumped off the balcony. The ending would make sense if this were the case, as Cobb would be able to keep the kids the same age in his mind forever were he dreaming. Nolan wouldn't be dumb enough for this to be the case, but it would explain that one thing.

    Regardless of the answer though, Cobb doesn't seem to care if it's reality or a dream. After he started to spin his totem, he saw his kids, ignored it, and left. As long as he believes it's real, that's what counts - which is kind of sad for him.

    edit - xD http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs072.snc4/34947_1394361533237_1058130115_30916298_3714797_n.jpg

    #2   Zeypher 

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      Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:43 PM

      The entire movie is Cobb in limbo; not a single frame is "reality". Both Saito and Mal use the phrases "Leap of faith" and "Die an old man filled with regret". At one point in the "reality" his father says that he "needs to wake up to reality". They never explain how they get from one point to another (Paris - Mombasa - Japan, etc) akin to how you're always in the middle of a dream and don't know how you got there. And the most supportive piece of evidence for this theory is that Adriane (the girl) is named after a Greek mythos where a woman named Adriane helps Theseus out of a labyrinth with red yarn (she's wearing a red jacket in the movie, meaning that she's there to guide Cobb out of limbo). Yep.

      #3   Matdamon 

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        Posted 28 July 2010 - 06:21 AM

        Damn I need to watch this shit again. Loved the movie, was epic as, but this analysing is way too deep for me. Yeah the kids at the end in the same position and same age kinda gave a hint at the end, too much like deja vu. If Cobb is in limbo the entire movie wasn't his wife the one trying to lead him out, and didn't Adriane help him out of that last dream? I need to watch it again though so it all makes sense, the start confused me and i didn't pay as much close attention as I wanted to. Love the pic ThankMeLater. Sums the end up perfectly.

        #4   ThankMeLater 

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          Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:26 AM

          View PostZeypher, on Jul 27 2010, 10:43 PM, said:

          The entire movie is Cobb in limbo; not a single frame is "reality". Both Saito and Mal use the phrases "Leap of faith" and "Die an old man filled with regret". At one point in the "reality" his father says that he "needs to wake up to reality". They never explain how they get from one point to another (Paris - Mombasa - Japan, etc) akin to how you're always in the middle of a dream and don't know how you got there. And the most supportive piece of evidence for this theory is that Adriane (the girl) is named after a Greek mythos where a woman named Adriane helps Theseus out of a labyrinth with red yarn (she's wearing a red jacket in the movie, meaning that she's there to guide Cobb out of limbo). Yep.

          Not true. Cobb's totem drops in the beginning of the film. Nolan wouldn't give us such an epic then pull the wool over our eye's for that to be so. And any movie with quick exposition has sudden scene changes; that's not solely limited to Inception.

          For the entire movie to be a dream, you'd need to ignore every rule brought up about the dreamscape and just accept it for being a dream, but you can do that with any movie. Saito shoots Cobb, and instead of coming back to reality, he goes further into limbo due to the sedative. Ipso, fatso. Besides the red jacket (with some zippers xD), nothing else points towards this theory being true. Actually, there is one key thing, but let's see if you can figure it out.

          #5   Zeypher 

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            Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:15 PM

            Cobb doesn't know that he's in a dream. Also, remember the part where he's running away from those people in Mombasa? He goes through a narrow passageway that seems to get narrower and narrower as he goes down it, yet somehow he pulls out of something he doesn't fit through.

            #6   ThankMeLater 

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              Posted 30 July 2010 - 12:25 AM

              So then the ending means nothing? It doesn't matter whether or not he's in reality, because the whole thing has been a dream, essentially making Cobb's entire emotional and psychological journey a waste of time.

              I just don't see Nolan pulling a movie like that.

              And that's really reaching my friend. He makes it through by forcing himself, breathing in and squeezing his stomach, loosening himself before trying to shoot through again, there's nothing supernatural at play here.

              Also, if the entire movie had been a dream, what about the rules? In the dream world, you are either in your own subconscious, where you can change things at will, or in somebody else's. If he's in somebody else's dream, why do people not stare at him and the rest of the crew the entire movie? And if he's in his own dream, then the properties of the totem should work, which they don't. For the entire movie to be a dream, you need to essentially say "fuck everything that just happened, this is a dream".

              edit - just re-watched again, they use a jet to travel to paris, and nolan as a film maker didn't deem it necessary to show their travel to each separate location, using, presumably, said same jet.

              #7   Zeypher 

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                Posted 01 August 2010 - 04:38 AM

                Have you seen The Prestige? An earlier film by Nolan -
                Spoiler


                In any case, these are hilarious - http://www.geekosyst...nception-memes/

                #8   ThankMeLater 

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                  Posted 03 August 2010 - 07:22 PM

                  Sorry, no. I'll watch it tomorrow and get back to you.

                  #9   Saturos S. 

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                    Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:01 AM

                    I went to see it yesterday and it is really a good movie, not as epic as everyone said it was, but nonetheless a good movie.

                    #10   Caael 

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                      Posted 18 August 2010 - 03:21 AM

                      Seeing it today omigodomigodhelpmepleasedontrapemetakemymoneyinstead

                      #11   Lightning Star 

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                        Posted 18 August 2010 - 10:43 AM

                        I gotta see this again. I feel like it took me a while to get into the story at the beginning, but at the same time, I think I missed some crucial bits that would help me figure out the end. Definitely gonna rent it when it comes out.

                        But walking out of the movie I felt like I had to check if I was dreaming, hah.

                        Edit: Oh and, I want to have Joseph Gordon-levitt's babies NAO

                        http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/14200000/Inception-joseph-gordon-levitt-14238707-400-475.jpg

                        :)

                        #12   I'm Always BROKE 

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                          Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:21 PM

                          Is this as good as it looks like? :)

                          #13   Caael 

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                            Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:27 PM

                            So. My verdict.

                            I think he is in reality at the end- right at the very last second you see the top just about to fall (whether it does or not is obviously a cinematographic ploy to keep us guessing but also with the evidence that the children have aged 2 years, which wouldn't have happened in the dream world despite wearing the same clothes as shown anywhere else, as they're played by different pairs (watch the credits) .

                            Also the faceless goons in the dream worlds never speak and are hardly seen, however in Mombassa they're seen up close and yelling things at Cobb such as "you're not dreaming now are ya?!".

                            The closing alleyway isn't closing, it just gets narrower. It's not a supernatural flair of the dream world but just Nolan building tension. The scene wouldn't nearly have been as tense if he just runs through the alleyway and is clear immediately.

                            Bearing in mind that Mal (spanish for bad) is a shade; a product of Cobbs own guilty and self destructive subconcious due to the Inception that lead to her killing herself and reflects only Cobbs manifested doubts about the real world being a dream.


                            Ultimately though, it IS Chris Nolan and the entire film was constructed to leave it as ambiguous as possible so we'll never really know.

                            Still, absolutely masterful filmmaking that should (but wont) go down in history.




                            Oh and on the subject of The Prestige (one of my favourite films of all time), Nolan is a master of building up one viewpoint and then showing it from another and challenging all the thoughts you've just concieved in your head. Not surprising Inception is left on such a cliffhanger. Dark Knight did it too (literally) with the Joker left hanging off the construction site and we never know what happens to him (which would have left more to the imagination had Heath Ledger not died)

                            #14   ThankMeLater 

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                              Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:44 PM

                              On Phone so can't really have a lengthy discussion, and I'll have to watch again to clarify, but from I recall, they don't age in the final scene. And you can't just discredit the clothes thing... If it is two years later, surely at that age the same clothes shouldn't fit. Nor should that matter, as it begs the question why would they just to happen to be wearing the exact same clothes two years later?

                              And I'm surprised people really fell for the wobble At the end. It could have fallen, it could have kept spinning, but that part of the scene doesn't really tell us anything, as
                              we'll never know what Nolan meant by it. The sole reason
                              it wobbled was to keep people talking. If he really meant one way or Another he would have shown us.

                              #15   Caael 

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                                Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:17 AM

                                There is no discerning evidence to prove either case, it's literally left up to the audience to decide becauese it can so easily go either way.

                                Edit: Just read an interesting theory actually, that his children are his real totem and when he see's their faces he knows he's in reality.

                                #16   Zeypher 

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                                  Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:01 AM

                                  View PostCaael, on Aug 19 2010, 03:17 AM, said:

                                  Edit: Just read an interesting theory actually, that his children are his real totem and when he see's their faces he knows he's in reality.

                                  Interesting. Mind posting a link sir?

                                  #17   Caael 

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                                    Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:27 AM

                                    Was on /tv/ on 4chan so will have 404'd by now. But still, interesting to think about.

                                    #18   ThankMeLater 

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                                      Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:12 AM

                                      I wish I could find a certain article that backed the theory that the whole thing was a dream, because it was convincing as fuck. I'm not 100% set on it being a dream the whole time, but but that article definitely put me on the fence.

                                      And no, there's no real proof that it goes either way, but there's evidence that the ending is a dream, and none that support that it's reality. You can base your opinion on previous scenes, but nothing from the point he "wakes up" to the point we see the screen black out points to the ending being reality. Caael, when you were 2, did the same clothes fit at 4? or 3 to 5? I doubt it.

                                      there's some good quality cam rips out there, if people want to rewatch it to be sure of things.

                                      #19   Caael 

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                                        Posted 19 August 2010 - 11:33 AM

                                        EVERYTHING was done very ambiguously to keep people drawing comparisons and guessing and re-guessing. It's all done on the fence- you might say that there's evidence the ending is the dreamworld but that's subjective- it's your evaluation of what you've been shown and the conclusion you have drawn based on what you've seen.

                                        This is why I love Chris Nolan so much- he ignites such discussion based on just a few cinematic techniques right at the end. I dont know what to think- it can so easily go either way. On the one hand you've got the top not toppling; the exact same situation with his kids as in the dream- the transitions of him to reality never been made clear. On the other hand you have the slight tip of the top the split second before the titles roll; how he see's his kids faces this time, how Mal is gone. I would LIKE it to be the latter based on Cobb's development and feeling like he deserves to be free now but Nolan never leaves things that simple. There's never a clear sense of resolution- in every film of his;

                                        Batman Begins:
                                        Spoiler


                                        The Prestige:
                                        Spoiler


                                        The Dark Knight:
                                        Spoiler


                                        Inception is the same. I'm not gonna come to a clear opinion on this because I know that I'll just keep changing it. Chris Nolan you beautiful bastard.

                                        #20   ThankMeLater 

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                                          Posted 19 August 2010 - 06:35 PM

                                          Top wobble is irrelevant but whatever.

                                          #21   Caael 

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                                            Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:39 PM

                                            I know it's irrelevant but look at the outcry over it- Nolan's got what he wanted.

                                            #22   Zeypher 

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                                              Posted 23 August 2010 - 02:11 AM

                                              Nolan performed inception on all of us.

                                              #23   ThankMeLater 

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                                                Posted 23 August 2010 - 09:10 AM

                                                OH SHI-


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