[Golden Legacy]

This is a fairly sensitive topic, and I ask that everyone demonstrate maturity when posting about this topic.


Suicide... what's your view on it?

[Mars Djinni]

I wouldn't do it. No matter how harsh my situation might get. Suicide is taking away the one true blessing that was given to me.

Regardless of whether complete bullcrap is raining down like hailstones on me or if the sun's still shining, I'm still alive here, and that's an opportunity I don't feel the need to let go of. I'll die when fate decides, not when I decide. I don't give up, especially on life itself.

[Split Infinity]

Suicide is a copout. You might as well be committing murder. In life, there are always second chances. You just thank your lucky stars you didn't end up as a snail or something.

[Someone Else]

Suicide is the dumbest mistake you can make in your life. It's also the last mistake you'll ever make.

Not only that, it is also completely selfish too. Even if you don't know it, there IS someone out there who cares about you. Suicide basically says you don't care about anyone but yourself.

Interesting choice of topic, GL...

[pHantOm]

Honestly, I have attempted suicide 2 times.

My parents found me unconcious and brought me to the hospital from overdose on my dads perscription drugs. *before girlfriend*

Me still being at the age of 15, thought it possible to slit my wrists to kill myself, when you only go unconcious and it eventually stops bleeding.

Something im not proud of, but after the second incident I have been put on anti-depressants and have been diagnosed with Bi-Polar. Then things started looking positive and since then got an amazing girlfriend, that is now my anti-depressant.

[Someone Else]

Anti-depressants can get you a hot, nice, compatible girlfriend? I need to try that!

[Split Infinity]

No, no, it's the other way round.

And I don't blame you, pHantOm. I think everybody has contemplated suicide a few times, but reading your post, I really don't think that you wanted to die that badly. I hope I'm not upsetting you when I say that stabbing yourself would be a sure-fire way to do the job.

[Eugine]

Yup... I've thought of suicde. The only thing that was stopping me from trying it was simply the fact I don't know what lies beyond death and that brings fear.

So basically, I wouldn't kill my self or attempt to, but the thought surely pops up in times of depression ^^

[FlamingDuck]

Suicide is just wrong. There's always the chance that things will get better, and if you kill yourself, you don't get that chance. Unless its psychological, but then you need help.

We just had this heroin talk yesterday, and in it was this one kid who idolized Kurt Cobain so much that he blew his head off, just so he could be like him. He was 13. Suicide doesn't just affect you, no matter what you may think.

[Hotshot101]

Suicide is wrong religous or nonreligous. Life is precous. NO matter how bad it is there is always another way. People may think there isn't, but there is. Suicide is almost like being a coward. Its the easy way out. Its giving up. As it has been said before "The only true failure is when you stop trying."

[Neo]

Although I have never attempted suicidal acts myself, and I think it's the most extreme messure one can take, I do believe that there are moments when such thought mind come in ones mind. I have had despressing moments in my life, trough a period of a half year. Problems at home and such, but even in those days, when I couldn't get comfort anywhere, I did not think about suicide. The only way people knew I was depressed was because me knuckles were busted -- I used to crash them into the wall alot back then. After that period I found myself a girlfriend -- not the current one -- and things were better.

One of my friend commited suicide, last year. The reason is unknown to most people, and though I have certain thoughts and ideas, I know that the true reason behind it will stay hidden.

Why I am against suicide? Probably since I believe that their are always things in life you can fall back on, and if not, you can try to... create new things -- objects, hobbies, persons -- to love or like. Go out, find friends, get a girl at the pub or whatever comes into your mind, but at least try cheering yourself up. You must not only think of yourself, but also think of the other people around you. There are always people who still care about you. Think of them.

[Neon]

I get the impression very few of you understand, or have ever been depressed before in your lives...

It's all very easy to say "oh, there are always second chances everything turns out ok in the end" but if you were to experience it from theirperspective I can guarantee you a 'second chance' wouldn't feel likely at all

[TheEnglishman]

I can't say I've ever felt so depressed that I've wanted to kill myself so it's difficult to form an opinion of it. Whilst I don't agree with it, I can understand why people who are in a seemingly hopeless situation would kill themselves. Then agains, as Wind Dude said, you'd be causing people a lot of pain by doing so. I guess I can understand why people do it, even if I think it's wrong.

[Aquamarine]

This is a very interesting topic GL. But I hope you didn't make it because you've got... ideas on your mind.

There was a time, about 5 years ago, when I thought of commiting suicide. I was extremely depressed, nervous and under constant pressure back then for many reasons. Whenever I thought about doing it I also thought about why I shouldn't do it, and the main reason for not doing it was always that I would cause other people(especially my family) huge grief. Now that I look back though, I think I never would really be able to do it. I'm very glad I didn't, since I love my life now and am thoroughly enjoying it.

But I don't think that murdering yourself is the cowards way out, like many of you believe. Yes, things can almost always become better, but if someones life is so awful and depressing, why would that person have to go through more of what he is going through at the moment if he doesn't want to? I would totally understand if a person who was crippled in a car crash and couldn't move anymore would want to kill himself. I probably would. But, of course, I am against it.

[Ravenblade]

I think at the end of the day, everyone goes through more or less the same amount of bad things in their lives, although possibly its unevenly distributed which would be why some people feel more inclined to kill themselves.

I have thought about this much and developed a general theory on it (although i fully accept that there are exceptions).

I believe there are 2 kinds of suicide:

1 - cry for attention - this would be more likely committed by younger people who probably would have started off with self mutilation, but when that didnt produce the desired effect they went one further with the mentaility of "This'll show them!!! Now they'll be sorry!!" This is truly tragic really, and sadly i know two people who killed themselves for this reason.

2 - No happiness left in their life - Im gonna have to contradict WD and say that no, not EVERYONE has someone who cares for them - think of homeless old people who no one cares about and most people dont even know exist - homeless orphans who lose their parents and then...well who gives a damn about them either?

I think we fear death for two reasons:

1 - Society induced fear of it - we're subjected to news, media etc that always portrays death as a very scary and often painful thing. But that, i dont think, is as important as...

2 - We have things in our lives that make us happy. The vast majority of people will have SOMETHING that is worth living for, whether it be a person, God, their job, a hobby or even just a nice view somewhere.

Ok, so, if the happy things are slowly removed, we obviously feel less confident, are more self critical and have less zest for life - this is called depression. (NB - Depression is not "being really really sad" its not wanting to get out of bed in the morning and staying in closed spaces, not seeing anyone etc..basically, its being trapped by your own mind because of the conditions around you.)

Once you become depressed you lose the ability to accurately judge your emotions and so they swing to very high highs and very low lows. Obviously, the less happy things you have in your life, the more trapped you feel, the more depressed you get, the less control you have over emotional imbalances, the more you want to desperately get out of there, and then, the more likely you are to kill yourself in sheer desperation.

It isnt because people are scared. It isnt cowardly. Killing yourself may be a lot of things but it isnt cowardly cos it takes a lot of guts to do it. I believe its cos people cant see beyond the hopelessness of their situation, and their emotions are overwhelming them. They cant think clearly cos their heads aare all messed up with stress and emotion, so what may seem like an obvious solution to us, wont even register with them.

Sorry that post was so long x.x;

[gsninja]

It's ok, Raven. n.n Anywho, this is my take:

I agree with WD. Suicide is a horrible mistake. Now, there has been a time that I've been terribly depressed, when I was in middle school. I won't divulge why. :P Anywho, I actually understand what it's like to be truly depressed. And guess what? I never contemplated the thought of suicide, because I knew that ending my life would be pointless. The thing is, everyone has an opportunity to become successful, no matter what. Everyone. Suicide takes away all those hopes and dreams and just ends everything. Honestly, is that what a person really wants, to just throw everything away just because he/she is really depressed? Everyone knows he/she can do something with his/her life, but hasn't realized it as soon as others. What you have to do is be honest with who you are, find the qualities inside you that are really good (not bad qualities), and then use them in society. In other words, suicide really is a cowardly gesture to run away from your problems. All you need to do is confront them youself and figure things out. That's all.

And Raven, it isn't the fact that you're killing yourself that's cowardly. It's why you're killing yourself.

[Someone Else]

Ravenblade, on Dec 12 2006, 03:01 PM, said:

2 - No happiness left in their life - Im gonna have to contradict WD and say that no, not EVERYONE has someone who cares for them - think of homeless old people who no one cares about and most people dont even know exist - homeless orphans who lose their parents and then...well who gives a damn about them either?

Right, but I was talking about "normal " people like us.

[Golden Legacy]

I'm glad we're having a serious discussion on this. For the record, no, I'm not considering anything like this. However, I've attempted it (or nearly so) once, and I was at one other point in my life depriving myself of eating, drinking, for a few days because of how horribly depressed I was.

It's impossible to judge other people who commit it, or consider it. Who are we to call them cowards, when they're probably experiencing one of the most difficult points of their lives? That's part of what, I think, suicide is; disillusionment. The sense of no recovery, of loss and despair, and hopelessness. This clouds our judgment, interferes with even the basic instinct of survival.


And to respond to Wind Dude's post; and you think it's "normal" NOT to experience this? It's normal to never feel depressed, or saddened, or lost? Some people just cope with it differently than others.

[gsninja]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 12 2006, 08:20 PM, said:

And to respond to Wind Dude's post; and you think it's "normal" NOT to experience this? It's normal to never feel depressed, or saddened, or lost? Some people just cope with it differently than others.

I think maybe WD's referring to us as "normal" as the fact that we're not homeless. But maybe you're right.

As I said before, all you need to do is confront these feelings headon and do something about it. I've been depressed before, so I know.

[l3lueMage]

Suicide is taking the easy way out IMO.
For people some situations maybe that is not true but for most it is.
People that commit suicide do not think they are able to overcome their problems but yea...Lets make a very bland example...
Playing a game, for example thisis what I do when I get stuck on a game, I just keep going and jumping off cliffs for fun lol! Or turning off the game aka making your character commit suicide...except theirs one difference, in life you dont get a second chance when commiting suicide :P

[Hotshot101]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 12 2006, 08:20 PM, said:

It's impossible to judge other people who commit it, or consider it. Who are we to call them cowards, when they're probably experiencing one of the most difficult points of their lives? That's part of what, I think, suicide is; disillusionment. The sense of no recovery, of loss and despair, and hopelessness. This clouds our judgment, interferes with even the basic instinct of survival.
depressed, or saddened, or lost? Some people just cope with it differently than others.

Well I sorta made more of a motavational speech nas if I was talking to one person, but I don't call them cowards for doing it. I am saying its the cowardly way out. The easy way in a sense. Yes some suiciders experience a very difficut time in there life, some don't they just kill themsevles for mabye something petty as like they lost there girlfriend or something.

[Mars Djinni]

Hotshot101, on Dec 12 2006, 07:10 PM, said:

Well I sorta made more of a motavational speech nas if I was talking to one person, but I don't call them cowards for doing it. I am saying its the cowardly way out. The easy way in a sense. Yes some suiciders experience a very difficut time in there life, some don't they just kill themsevles for mabye something petty as like they lost there girlfriend or something.

Since when was losing a girlfriend "petty", though? We've already had guys here mention that their girlfriends were the ones that got them OUT of depression. Think losing them would mean a bit more than that?

[gsninja]

Losing a girlfriend wouldn't mean much if he didn't care for her much. :P

[Someone Else]

gsninja, on Dec 12 2006, 08:27 PM, said:

I think maybe WD's referring to us as "normal" as the fact that we're not homeless.

What he said. Sorry for the mixup.

[Neo]

I just wanted to comment on what Neon said, as he was completely right. I do not understand what it means to commit, or consider suicidal acts. I have been very depressed, but never thought of that, as I already mentioned. I think very few, indeed, know how it feels -- exept those who tried once or several times -- and I do no plan on finding out either.

Suicide is, and will stay, in my opinion, the last and most extreme measure one never has to take. We are all at the age at which we have parents to love us -- sorry to those who don't -- and we probably all have family. Nobody at school likes you? It's a possibility, but I doubt it. I personally think that even when considering suicide, it must be done at the most utter point of not return; when you have no family left, no friend, no nothing. When there is nothing to care about or to find support.

Maybe it sounds harsh what I am saying but it's just my opinion, although I think there are many people who would doubt my words. I don't blame them, since, like said before, I have never experienced such thoughts. I just hope, for everybody's sake, that if someone here ever tries it, he/she will talk about it first. If not with people they can trust, then at a place like this.

[Saturos S.]

One of my old friends from primary school jumped of a flat last year. He believed that he was in some kind of dreamworld here on Earth and that he actually had a family back in another world. To him it seemed that dying in this world, would be the fastest way of getting to the other world. The funeral was very sad. His grandma moved because it was the flat she lived in where he jumped off, she just couldn't stand living there anymore. His mum came over here a month or two ago, she came to pick up some photo's of him at my birthday party when I turned 10 or 11. She was crying a lot, though sometimes trying to smile. His dad just started work again, after nearly a year.


This just an example that there are always people who care for you, no matter what. And hit hurts them a lot.

[Hotshot101]

Mars Djinni, on Dec 12 2006, 10:58 PM, said:

Since when was losing a girlfriend "petty", though? We've already had guys here mention that their girlfriends were the ones that got them OUT of depression. Think losing them would mean a bit more than that?

well its not enough to kill you just gotta try again. Some people do kill themselves over that though.

[pHantOm]

Reasons Ive attempted were because I had no friends, I was so much different than everyone else in terms of getting along. Everyone around me was going bowling, to dances with thier girlfriends and going to high school football games. I went bowling to try and get involved only to not be accepted, I went to dances only to sit at a round table by myself sipping soda, I went to high school football games only to sit on a bleecher by myself with no one to talk to.

My family were abusive to me, my dad would always hit me and my mom would constantly tell me I was a dissapointment and a failure. My sister was highly praised, she was the favorite since she was athletically inclined. I would get thrown out of the house all the time and go stay in the high school cafeteria for the night.

At school I had terrible grades, barely passing if not failing and being told I was not considered college material.

I attempted suicide and failed because my parents found me in my room throwing up. I was counciled and brought to a psycyotrist, and considered a freak by my parents and they were even more ashamed of me. I became obsessed with video games, were I wouldnt sleep and would stay in my room playing them, enjoying the fact that they were the 1 thing I was good at, playing counterstrike for sometimes up to 14 hours without sleep. After being grounded from the phone, my computer and television I was left sleeping all day and going to school only to write poetry and draw in my notebooks, I didnt care if I failed or not because I intended to kill myself any way possible so I didnt have to struggle anymore. So I gashed my wrists trying to kill myself and passed out, only to be in a hospital once again with stiches on my wrists. You can consider me emo if you like, but I never tried to let anyone know, I was ashamed of what ive tried and who I was. Only a few people knew about my attempts and I didnt even want them to know.

Suicide looked like the answer, because the fear of dying wasnt in me. Comming home from school was the only fear I had, and I considered myself an ok person, and prayed that I would go to heaven. So if I did succeed I would be happy.

[gsninja]

Well, pHantOm, I can't understand what you've felt, since it has never been that extreme for me before, but I can understand why you would want to consider suicide, especially after something like that...

But even though things are even that difficult...well, tough them out. Life can be a b*tch, more to some than to others, and that's why you need to buckle down and hold your ground against these...hateful things. I always will think that suicide is a cowardly stunt to pull because all that it does is prove that you're too weak to put up with life and it proves you could never work hard enough to prove yourself useful, because everyone can be useful. If you've contemplated suicide and decided against it, then that's good for you, since you've come to realize suicide just sucks. >.od

[FlamingDuck]

I think its safe to say I've never actually been depressed, so I don't really understand what people who are comtemplating suicide are thinking, but I have been incredibly worried, borderline depressed, except what kept me from depression was the small hope that everything would turn out alright. And guess what? It did. Other than that, the closest thing to depression I gotten is running up to my room crying when I was little. But that hardly counts. I consider myself extremely lucky to have such a nice life...

As for "the cowardly way out", I'm not sure what I think. It is by far not the best way of dealing with things, but if you are truly depressed, then what can you do?

And also, today in a school somewhat closeby, a kid went into school with a rifle and shot himself in the face. The reason? He was doing poorly in school, and his parents decided that he would have to drop all his extracurricualr activities and focus on his studies. So he felt that life was not worth living. Its that kind of suicide that I really hate. Just for some silly reason, or just to get attention.

[Hotshot101]

pHantOm, on Dec 13 2006, 05:43 PM, said:

I considered myself an ok person, and prayed that I would go to heaven. So if I did succeed I would be happy.

If you are christian or jew for that matter, you need to realize that being an okay person won't get you into heaven. killing youself is like destroying Gods temple. It is not a good thing. As gsninja said before you need to stand you ground. What you can do is pray that things will turn up. As I always say to myself when I am depressed "naver give up the fight. failure is not an option." Your parents may think you are a failure, but doesn't mean you are. Just for telling you your a failure makes them bad parents. You could get them for child abuse. When people say bad things to you don't ever listen to them. They are just pests. as for your sister. She I guess you could figure her as a spoiled rotton brat. Just ignore her. As for your father abusing you take his hits and stand back up. As far as I see it, its is self defense, so ou could fight back. I know the Bible says you are suppose to honor thy father and thy mother, but at any rate God can not see this just. I would say if you show him your not going to take the abuse lieing down it may stop.

[gsninja]

After all, if you've read "The Inferno", who'd want to commit suicide? =P Still, even without reading it, you should realize it yourself that suicide is pointless.

And Hotshot, you put up a good point. If your parents are mistreating you, don't commit suicide; call the police and get them for child abuse. If you let other people control you, that's how your life can get messed up. Take control of your own life and fight back against all injustice done to you. It'll work eventually. :P

[Hotshot101]

gsninja, on Dec 13 2006, 09:20 PM, said:

And Hotshot, you put up a good point. If your parents are mistreating you, don't commit suicide; call the police and get them for child abuse. If you let other people control you, that's how your life can get messed up. Take control of your own life and fight back against all injustice done to you. It'll work eventually. :P

Thank you. Also remember to keep your counter legal because what use would your efforts be if you where in jail or on deathrow.

[My Best Wishes]

Suicide the most selfish thing a person can do.
Suicide has played a small role in my life.

My sister's friend hung himself 4 or 5 years ago, it really affected her.
Two weeks ago my Aunts friend overdosed on Valium(sp?) an anti-depressent. Before she took the pills she sent my Aunt an sms, they got to her in time but she is still in the hospital.
Lastly, the manager's husband for my dad's bussieness shot himself. Two weeks ago their son's friend was driving in Tasmania (Southern State, below Victoria, they moved up here). He lost control and died, his friends gatherd together and mourned, one of them went home and hung himself saying he couldn't take it anymore.

Just imagine how it affects the people left behind.

I've never contemplated serioues suicide, only after **** days at school. I've been depressed but I've learnt to recogonise it, I mostly get depressed when I'm sleep deprived so I just go to bed.

http://en.wikipedia....Teenage_suicide

[Luna]

I don't believe you can say that it's right or wrong. It's just another way of dying. And there's just too many different cases (some of which I believe can be justified). Maybe the WAY in which they do it (ex: shooting yourself in front of your children, etc) is wrong, but still. Only the person who is doing it can decide if it's "right" or "wrong", as they're the ONLY ones who are experiencing it and we, the outsiders, can only wonder and assume.

"Oh ****, her way of dying was wrong."

I dunno if anyone will understand this.

[Hotshot101]

We in a nonreligion sense it is perfectly legal although its still does much harm after you do it. As watch said it can hurt people you love. Some of us may have expierenced this type of depression, but you don't see us jumping of a cliff. Suicide also takes one of are best gifts away from us and that is to live.

[Aquamarine]

@Hotshot: It is nice of you trying to give pHantOm advise, and you're right about phoning the police or something if he needs to, but you can't, just CAN'T go telling somebody that his parents are evil and that his sister is a spoilt brat, unless he says so himself. It is up to him to decide whether or not they really are like that.

@Sheba: I completely agree. It's up to the person who is considering it to decide whether or not he'll kill himself, but when considering it he really should think about any people he might leave devastated.

@pHantOm: I have to say I'm impressed by how you've opened your heart to us. I think I'll say my reasons for considering(not attempting) suicide a few times.

In the last two grades of Elementary school, when I was 13 and 14 years old, I was very depressed and nervous. There are a few reasons for that.
One is that I had terrible grades at school. I often failed tests and both times I almost failed my whole school year, which would mean that I would have to go through the whole school year again and that I would be in class with kids a year younger than me. I was always so afraid when the Maths lesson was about to start, since I always had the worse grades from Maths. The reason for that was that the woman that taught me was a damn witch. She used to induce fear into many of us by just being there. I would study Maths at home with someone who knows it and I would fully understand it. Then I was all happy about me knowing everything the next day at school, but when the hag would ask me a question everything I had learned suddenly dissapeared from my mind. And there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. My parents were always very supportive, but were also deeply dissapointed that I was doing so badly at school and used to often tell me how important it was for me to have good grades, which would make everything even worse, since I constantly felt like I was letting them down.

Another reason is that my health was pretty bad. I've suffered from Bronchial Asthma since I was two years old, and during my last two years of Elementary School it was quite bad. The reason for that was almost always the large amount of stress I was under. Often when I wanted to go out with my friends, or do anything else, I couldn't because I had to stay home and rest since I could not breathe as well as I should. Not only that, but I also had a skin condition during most of this time. My skin was at many places very itchy and red, with deep cuts made by all my scratching(most of the scratching was done during the night when I couldn't stop myself from doing it). Some kids at school made fun of me for these problems. Although I can be highly aggresive and dangerous when very angry, I did nothing, since the last thing I wanted was to get into a fight and some idiot to punch me in the stomach making me suffocate to death because of my Asthma. But now that my Asthma is much better I more often get into fights, which is something I've felt I needed to do since I was about thirteen years old.

Also a reason was, believe it or not, love. Well, probably not true love, but something close to it. I really, really liked this girl during that time. The thing is, she didn't like me. Well, she did at one time consider being with me, but she decided not to in the end because of my health problems. Yep, I was "creepy" and "disgusting", to put it like that. She didn't exactly say this, but I knew what the reason was by the way she acted around me. Now I am glad I wasn't with her, since I couldn't be with a person who thought I was... well, possibly a freak of some kind. But back then I was still amazed by her, and in the end I tried to make myself forget about her, because not being with her caused me big pain. I managed it.

Not a fun time of my life. No sir.

[PDM]

I was going to post my opinion, but I saw these people with serious in-puts that never have experienced extreme depression. In which case, they'd most likely be ignorant about my opinion on not understand =/.

[Hotshot101]

Aquamarine, on Dec 14 2006, 02:56 PM, said:

@Hotshot: It is nice of you trying to give pHantOm advise, and you're right about phoning the police or something if he needs to, but you can't, just CAN'T go telling somebody that his parents are evil and that his sister is a spoilt brat, unless he says so himself. It is up to him to decide whether or not they really are like that.

@Sheba: I completely agree. It's up to the person who is considering it to decide whether or not he'll kill himself, but when considering it he really should think about any people he might leave devastated.

Well what pHantOm told us about his sister (saying that she was highly praised) almost said that, but I don't know if she acts spoiled although it sounds like she would. As for the parents being evil that was why he wanted to commit suicide in the first place. Did you read his post?

Yes it is up to the person if he wants to kill himself. I mean who can stop him.

[Sea of Time]

I didn't know whether I wanted to post in this topic, but I guess I might as well give my input after seeing quite a few of you pour your all into it.

I, personally, have never considered suicide. I have considered self-harm and come dangerously close to doing it, but it was only out of self-hate. I was not a popular kid in junior high school. I had few friends, and as I got older (Grade 8 and 9) I realized that other than my grades slipping, I had pretty much no social life to speak of.

It turned around for me in Grade 10, I met a lot of really good friends that I will have for a long time, and met a great person in my girlfriend. We didn't start dating for about a year or so, but today I feel like we could at least be friends for a very long time.

Believe me when I say that I can understand considering suicide if you are depressed or suffer from bipolar disorder. You do not have full control over your emotions and the dangerous and severe mood swings are scary. But if you are not affected by an emotional disorder, I see no reason to commit suicide. The life you lead is important, and should be important to you, even if no one else sees you that way. I'm not going to say that suicide is the easy way out, but I will say that your life would have to be extremely bad if you were not affected by a disorder and considered suicide.

I've been blessed with a very good life and after turning around a couple years ago, I've realized that self-harm would never have done me any good.

[Golden Legacy]

This is one of those times where it sometimes is hard to keep yourself from doing something you might regret.

[Sea of Time]

I realize that that must be tough for you, but you really can't do something you're going to regret later. I firmly believe that the only possible reason for a sane man to consider suicide, is the death of one close to you, or severe abuse. Being rejected for a college is tough, but there are other colleges out there, and keeping your head above the surface is vital if you're going to make it in the competitive world of universities.

[Golden Legacy]

If it was just the rejection itself, I wouldn't be thinking about that.

It's the knowledge that I've spent all 17 years of my life... and this is the outcome? It sort of undermines a lot that I've worked for... I don't know how else to describe it.

[gsninja]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 14 2006, 06:26 PM, said:

This is one of those times where it sometimes is hard to keep yourself from doing something you might regret.

Just because a college rejected your application? If that was one of many times you've been rejected, then I can see, and I'm sorry, but if it was your first application or something close, you have other options, you know.

And Sheba, I understand what you're saying. Thing is, suicide just can't ever be right through my eyes. No matter what a person thinks about suicide being right and wrong, by my moral standpoint, all suicide does is hurt other people, even if they never knew you. If someone is thinking about suicide, think about this: Is it worth it?

[Split Infinity]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 15 2006, 10:57 AM, said:

If it was just the rejection itself, I wouldn't be thinking about that.

It's the knowledge that I've spent all 17 years of my life... and this is the outcome? It sort of undermines a lot that I've worked for... I don't know how else to describe it.

Hey, in this world, there will always be people that are better or worse than you. Everyone is different, and we all have our strong and weak points. In some cases it can be difficult to accept, but you have to keep trying.

[Sea of Time]

I couldn't have put it better myself. The world can be tough, but if you see things through, and you truly have worked as hard as you have, everything will turn out fine.

[My Best Wishes]

I'm thinking that most of the posts in here are school related. Funny how something that is supposed to be essential can be the worst experience in people's lives.

[Split Infinity]

Because it takes over so much of your early life, and puts a lot of stress on you during a stage of your life when you are mentally vulnerable.

[My Best Wishes]

I find it in a way funny how there are so many adults and movies that just say 'I hated Highschool.' 'Bullying is bad' but yet it continues everyday. You think if Adults could sympthise with the kids they could actually try to end Bullying etc.

[Split Infinity]

Kids are using new tricks every generation; the internet is a good example of this. There is also the problem with 'dobbing'.

[Aquamarine]

Lifeform288, on Dec 14 2006, 10:03 PM, said:

I was going to post my opinion, but I saw these people with serious in-puts that never have experienced extreme depression. In which case, they'd most likely be ignorant about my opinion on not understand =/.

Please do tell us your opinion. I'm quite interested to hear what you've got to say, especially if you have gone through a very depressing time in your life, since you would probably be able to give people good advice.

[gsninja]

Lifeform288, on Dec 14 2006, 04:03 PM, said:

I was going to post my opinion, but I saw these people with serious in-puts that never have experienced extreme depression. In which case, they'd most likely be ignorant about my opinion on not understand =/.

Then by all means tell us what you think. ;) It's great to hear these kinds of things from someone who most likely knows a lot better than most of us do. =D

[pHantOm]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 14 2006, 06:57 PM, said:

If it was just the rejection itself, I wouldn't be thinking about that.

It's the knowledge that I've spent all 17 years of my life... and this is the outcome? It sort of undermines a lot that I've worked for... I don't know how else to describe it.

There is a reason Pieces is my favorite song.

"I tried to be perfect,
But nothing was worth it,
I don’t believe it makes me real.
I thought it’d be easy,
But no one believes me,
I meant all the things I said."

[Yuki]

x_x *sigh* Okay. This is a very touchy subject for me. I don't believe that suicide is the answer to anything BUT you must admit that sometimes, your life does get a bit low and you lose your entire will to live. It happens very often and people sometimes skip the drugs and alcohol and go straight to death. I also believe that sometimes, it's all you can think about that would make you happy. When you've done everything you could to take out your depression, anger, etc. negative emotions in a helathy way (sports, art, poetry etc.) and you're still depressed then what else is there to do? You've tried everything and nothing worked.

I guess my view is twisted but I think that suicide is never the option.

[Hotshot101]

Shouldn't be. Depression may be difficult to live with, but if given the time you can get over it. You shouldn't let every bad thing happen stop from living your life. Its never a good thing. It just throws everything you worked for down the toilet.

[Echo_djinn]

Instead of commiting suicide why not Kamakazie(sp?)? Why go out alone?

[Eugine]

X.X so we should become suicide bombers?

[Golden Legacy]

Okay, I know I'm going to get a lot of heat for this one.
Now... suicide bombers.

As much as people fear them and think they're cruel-hearted individuals with the purpose to kill...


These people aren't cold-blooded; in fact, they're like us. They go through life, and life deals them a terrible hand. Imagine, if your family was killed, your country ravished... what would happen to you? Wouldn't you lose the will to live? More importantly, wouldn't you be willing to take out the enemy in the process?

That's what I see as happening. Not all of them are like this, definitely many of them are bad... but at the same time, I think people are misinformed. The other half of them are merely people who've lost it all, and lose the will to live.

[Hotshot101]

Let me give you a christian light on that outlook GL.

See yes even if your family and country died, you would feel like there is nothing more for you here. In our sense it is like God is testing you. As did he Job. Job constantly struggled to not denounce God, as a person who lost what they though was everything struggles not to kill him and thousands of others. As Job, that kind of person could get back his life, but even better. In another sense you just never know what you might find if you try again. Your still alive aren't you? You do what exactly what Job did. Rough through the storm. In other words make the best of what you have and don't give it up. Who knows? You may just find paradise on the other side. This is even if you lose your family. Family is a hard thing to give up. Just know they didn't die in vain and if your like me , you know you will see them soon. It takes a lot of will to try again at this state, but if you look at it. Its not worth killing yourself and others that had nothing to do with it. As they say "every cloud had a silver lining." and as I say "Even the toughest storm can be fought through all it takes is a little faith and a little belief in yourself."

This sorta also goes with our suicide topic except with out bombing the ones responsible.

[Aquamarine]

Hotshot, I had a lot of trouble reading your post, can you please try and type properly, and also use full stops and other such things when needed? Just a little friendly advice, no hard feelings.

As for suicide bombers, I agree with GL(which I have noticed I usually do, we share the same views on many things). I would completely understand a person who wants to kill himself and the people who wiped out his home and family. If somebody took away everything I loved and have worked for all my life, I would probably do the same. Nobody would think in that kind of situation that God is testing him and that there is still a chance for him to lead a good life. In my opinion thinking like that would be wrong. God took away everything he had in life, so why would that person still be faithful to God?

[Nemphtis]

My view on suicide is simple, really.

If you're weak enough to kill yourself, you deserved to die in the first place. If you're strong enough to keep going, I have a tiny little bit of respect for you. That's the way the pimped out cookie crumbles, biatch.

[Mars Djinni]

It's human nature to feel revenge. Especially for something big, like a grudge between countries or different powers within a single country. If the threat is big enough, then one would do all he can to crush the threat, including throwing away his own life.

Suicide bombing, to their own party, is an act of honour, giving up their life to damage their foe. Look at the Kamikaze pilots. In Japanese, Kamikaze means "god wind". Doesn't that mean it is the will of a greater being, may it be a deity and/or emperor, of which with honour they will give up their own life in an attempt to bring the enemy down with them?

Going back to the story of Job. He had everything anyone could possibly imagine. God wanted to prove that material and human wants do not stand between Him and the faith of His people. Though it was extremely difficult, Job persevered. He had faith in his Lord, the one thing no one else but himself could take away.

[Hotshot101]

Suicide bombers are just as bad as any suicider. Really besides hurting people there isn't much of a difference between the two. Really to me its just about all the same.

[PDM]

Can I say in all seriousness (seeing as how the cause is in this topic) that I hate Hotshot?

[Golden Legacy]

Aquamarine, on Dec 28 2006, 09:07 AM, said:

As for suicide bombers, I agree with GL(which I have noticed I usually do, we share the same views on many things). I would completely understand a person who wants to kill himself and the people who wiped out his home and family. If somebody took away everything I loved and have worked for all my life, I would probably do the same. Nobody would think in that kind of situation that God is testing him and that there is still a chance for him to lead a good life. In my opinion thinking like that would be wrong. God took away everything he had in life, so why would that person still be faithful to God?

Absolutely, nicely said. In fact, I read about a study earlier (as soon as I find the link, I'll post it) where a revered psychologist did a study of some 1000 Palestinian children, among others. What he discovered was startling; these children suffer considerably more depression for their age. They have a startling low desire to live, especially after having lost everything. They become tired at a young age of living in constant fear, of watching their families beaten, of having their food and water cut off...

Hotshot101, on Dec 28 2006, 08:50 PM, said:

Suicide bombers are just as bad as any suicider. Really besides hurting people there isn't much of a difference between the two. Really to me its just about all the same.

Can I ask something? Who has committed the greater wrong, a suicide bomber who kills five people, and himself, or a soldier that shoots and kills ten people?

[I'm Always BROKE]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 30 2006, 05:32 PM, said:

Can I ask something? Who has committed the greater wrong, a suicide bomber who kills five people, and himself, or a soldier that shoots and kills ten people?

I've never really thought of that in that way... ;) Still, the diffrence between a bomb soldier and a soldier in a army is that the soldier in the army doesn't kills innocent people. Sure there are exceptions, but wrong people are every where. Maybe it's just the media, but in my eyesview bomb soldiers only kill innocent civilians. So even though a suicide bomber would perhaps kills less people, he does in my oppinion a greater wrong then a soldier in a army.

Also, revenge isn't a good way to go. But we where discussing bomb soldiers from Arabic countries as Iraq and Afghanistan right? I say that religion plays a huge part in this to!

And I'm pretty impressed by alot of you people's stories here... All I have to say is, keep it up! Since you all oblivously didn't committed suicide whatever might've happened to you... Look at your lives now, I bet they've changed alot didn't they? Just keep in mind that everything what have happened in the past, will slowly recover in the future if you keep on being positive.

Peace.

[PDM]

Pfft, obviously the bomber.

George Bush is telling us that, so we should all believe it ;D.

[Golden Legacy]

DiddyKong, on Dec 30 2006, 12:49 PM, said:

I've never really thought of that in that way... ;) Still, the diffrence between a bomb soldier and a soldier in a army is that the soldier in the army doesn't kills innocent people. Sure there are exceptions, but wrong people are every where. Maybe it's just the media, but in my eyesview bomb soldiers only kill innocent civilians. So even though a suicide bomber would perhaps kills less people, he does in my oppinion a greater wrong then a soldier in a army.

Not true. Soldiers can, and do, kill innocent civilians. At any rate, in both cases, I'm saying the people are civilians.

And why has the bomber done the greater wrong? I'd say, that a soldier who commits more murder, and is still alive, is considerably worse.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 30 2006, 05:53 PM, said:

Not true. Soldiers can, and do, kill innocent civilians. At any rate, in both cases, I'm saying the people are civilians.

And why has the bomber done the greater wrong? I'd say, that a soldier who commits more murder, and is still alive, is considerably worse.

You got me there. I didn't quite understood that you ment that the soldier who killed 10 people where innocent civilians to. Now I understand you, but still blowing yourself up isn't a joke either! Still I agree that the soldier would have commited a worse crime.

[TheEnglishman]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 30 2006, 04:53 PM, said:

And why has the bomber done the greater wrong? I'd say, that a soldier who commits more murder, and is still alive, is considerably worse.

That's an interesting point. Morally you would say the soldier is worse.

[Hotshot101]

Golden Legacy, on Dec 30 2006, 11:32 AM, said:

Can I ask something? Who has committed the greater wrong, a suicide bomber who kills five people, and himself, or a soldier that shoots and kills ten people?

Of course. My answer is that it depends on the curcomestances. Wrong doesn't really matter on how many they killed. It matters on the purpose of why. Soldiers fight for the betterment of their countries, they are the reason why you aren't being bombed on by another country, but there is a flipside. It also depends on what the countries purpose. See the country could have something really bad purpose. You can't really blame the soldiers for what happen or innocent people that had nothing to do with it. They just thought it was the best thing for their country. Its really the countries' governments fault.

[Elliott]

It all comes down to the individual. But I think the reasons behind it are also extremely important. If you're doing it because you want attention, then that's just wrong and downright pathetic. But if you honestly don't want to live anymore, then who is anyone to really stop you?

My plan at this stage is to end my life before I get the stage where I become a burden on the rest of society. Not because I want attention, or because I hate life, but simply because I never want to get the time in my life where I'm physically inept, and have become someone who is bringing down the rest of society with my imperfections.

I'm obviously not 100% sure that will happen, but after seeing a lot of elderly people, I can honestly say I never want to end up like that.

[Luna]

...How come none of you realize that suicide bombers are brainwashed?

[Hotshot101]

That can be fixed Agatio. Just exersise and eat right and you won't be that helpless. Also even if that does happen its not a real reason to end your life. Also you may not even live that long. Us christians always act like its there last day, because we never know what might happen.

[Golden Legacy]

Sheba, on Dec 31 2006, 09:24 PM, said:

...How come none of you realize that suicide bombers are brainwashed?

"We should not justify suicide bombers. We are against the suicide bombers, but we must understand what drives these young people to such actions. They want to liberate themselves from such a dark life. It is not ideological, it is despair."

[Luna]

And who said that? I'd like to know. It sounds like they are missing a part of the story.

[Golden Legacy]

Golden Legacy, on Jan 1 2007, 01:05 AM, said:

"We should not justify suicide bombers. We are against the suicide bombers, but we must understand what drives these young people to such actions. They want to liberate themselves from such a dark life. It is not ideological, it is despair."

Sheba, on Jan 1 2007, 10:31 PM, said:

And who said that? I'd like to know. It sounds like they are missing a part of the story.

It is quoted from Mahmoud Darwish, a famous Palestinian Christian poet.

[Elliott]

Brainwashing is just another word for manipulating the weak-minded. If these 'people' are going to succumb to propaganda and manipulative techniques etc., then there should be no remorse for them whatsoever. There is little to understand about them; they've probably been raised by a fanatically religious family, then been told if that they kill in the name if their non-existent god, that beyond the grave they will have multiple virgins and all the rest of that crock of absolute ****.

[Hotshot101]

The only religion that does that is Islamic and really extremist ones. They believe the old holy war thing. A jihad as they call it. The war is suppose to purge the world killing all who won't accept that their allah is god. It is a bunch of crap, because you can't make anyone believe. Its their own choice even if you try to force it doesn't mean it changes their views.

[Luna]

The last two posts got what I meant entirely.

EXCEPT.

That the brainwashing begins as soon as they're born. So there is no way that they can decide "this is wrong" or "this is right".

I'll stop debating or whatever now.

[Hotshot101]

Even if. A person can change his mind and go to what he really believes is right.

[Elliott]

So what's your opinion on the crusades Hotshot101?
There was about a dozen wasn't there?
Many thousands of people killed, and entire countries (Norway, for example) forced to accept their religion?

Something like 87% of Norway belongs to the Lutheran state church at the moment. So as you can see it's NOT just Islam that does it. Christianity through history has proved that it doesn't have a problem with brainwashing, killing, burning at stakes etc. I don't care if you say "those were different times", it's still the SAME God, the SAME book, and the SAME ****ing cause.

[Nosferatu]

Not to go off the topic of these guys, but hey.

Personally I don't think of suicide too deeply. I'm too busy thinking of doing it. There is one person here who helps me keep myself together. She knows who she is.
Call me emo if you wish, but I don't care. I don't care what people say about me. It's their problem if the have something against me. People hate me because I'd rather rip down how they think of their religion. They think I'm a freak because I'd rather die then live. Do I care? No. I give them the middle finger. Judge if you wish. At the end of the day, I don't care about what others think about me.

[Hotshot101]

Agatio, on Jan 3 2007, 12:27 AM, said:

So what's your opinion on the crusades Hotshot101?
There was about a dozen wasn't there?
Many thousands of people killed, and entire countries (Norway, for example) forced to accept their religion?

Something like 87% of Norway belongs to the Lutheran state church at the moment. So as you can see it's NOT just Islam that does it. Christianity through history has proved that it doesn't have a problem with brainwashing, killing, burning at stakes etc. I don't care if you say "those were different times", it's still the SAME God, the SAME book, and the SAME ****ing cause.

1: norways wasn't even in cruesades.

2: Catholics. The whole reason for the cruesades where to free Israel from Arabs. Catholics are a messed up versoin of the real christians that came from the bible. You ever read up on how they are different from actual christians, you going to find a range of difference. For example catholics, honor marry and they pratically worship her. We don't do that.

3: Not really same cause, same book and God yah. Same religion no.

4: There was about 5 cruesades in total. 1st one is what you are smacking here. The first one was a flop, that ransacked villages for food. Not prepared and pretty much all died. Norway was sacked by English because of viking raids on them. Norway was taken by an english war not for religous reasons.

5: They follow that church because they wanted to. The english did not try to force religion no them.

[Saturos S.]

Hotshot101, on Jan 3 2007, 02:49 PM, said:

2: Catholics. The whole reason for the cruesades where to free Israel from Arabs. Catholics are a messed up versoin of the real christians that came from the bible. You ever read up on how they are different from actual christians, you going to find a range of difference. For example catholics, honor Mary and they pratically worship her. We don't do that.

Catholicism is just a different part within christianity. They're as much christian as everyone who believes in god and christ. When you're a catholic you're also a christian, you're not a christian when you're not catholic as you suggest.

On the sidenote, catholicism is the biggest religous body within christanity.

[Hotshot101]

yes they are a sorted branch of christianity, but they made up a ton of stuff in the past just to get money. They say they have relics and half of them said they have a piece of the cross for there relic. One guy commented "with all these pieces of the cross we would have enough wood to rebuild noahs ark." Other things is that they worship Marry (Christs human mother) when it clearly says in the bible not to. I don't know how they could miss that. Catholicism may sound like christianity in a way, but they spend more time worshiping the pope then Christ himself.

If you still think thats minor I could give you a ton more reasons why they are not wuite actual christians.

[Eugine]

OMFG hotshot, shut up. All Christian religions were at some point branched from catholics, it's just that some had different interpretation on the bible so they segregated. So basically, if you wanna bash Christianity bash all the divisions. Anyway, just revive the religion thread in the current affair topic to discuss this.

Quote

At the end of the day, I don't care about what others think about me.

IMO, you think of suicide because you do infact care about what others think of you...

[Hotshot101]

No serously they use the exact same bible we do and it all the same. Anyway I wasn't trying to get into this in the first place, but yet again what has that got me? More trouble.

[Elliott]

Just so we're on the same page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
9 official crusades, plus the rest.

Also:

Quote

"The spread of Christianity in Norway in this period is in large part attributed to the missionary kings Olav Trygvason (995-1000) and Saint Olav (1015-1028), although Haakon the Good was Norway's first Christian king and the Norse tradition was replaced slowly over two centuries (9th and 10th centuries)."

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway

So it was more of an indoctrination than a crusade, but I never called it a crusade, you misread me (though I admit maybe I didn't present my point clearly).

And for the record, Catholicism is a branch of Christianity, just like Lutheranism and Protestantism. It all came from the same book, one that was written to deify Jesus Christ. Catholics just have a different interpretation of The Bible.

So pull your head out of your ass, get off your high horse, and perhaps read into things a little rather than believing everything you have been raised to.

[Nosferatu]

Eugine, on Jan 3 2007, 02:17 PM, said:

IMO, you think of suicide because you do infact care about what others think of you...

No, I just hate living. Is there something wrong with that? I mean, life is just so dull. But I'm not getting into an arguement over this.

[Nyktos]

Nosferatu, I know exactly what you mean. I feel the same way very often, and I have seriously considered suicide. One particularly awful night I tried it. But you know, when I think about it, I'm glad I'm still alive.

[Golden Legacy]

First of all, I agree strongly with Agatio's point.

Christian Violence in History

The horrible truth is that, numerically and statistically speaking, Christian Civilization is the bloodiest and most violent of all civilizations in all of history, and is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths. Even so, Muslims will never associate this violence and blood bath with the teachings of Jesus (peace be on him).

- Saint Augustine’s cognite intrare (“lead them in”—i.e. “force them to convert”). In fact the Qur’an says the exact opposite: There is no compulsion in religion ( 2:256 ). Augustine’s frightening idea that all must be compelled to “conform” to the “true Christian faith” has unleashed centuries of unparalleled bloodshed. Indeed, Christians have suffered more under the rule of Christian civilization than under pre- Christian Roman rule or any other rule in history.

Millions were tortured and slaughtered in the name of Christianity during the periods of the Arian, Donatist and Albigensian heresies

- The Crusades

The European armies were saying, as they slaughtered both Christian and Muslim Arabs: “Kill them all, God will know his own.”

- Europe's Reformation and Counter Reformation Era

Two thirds of the Christian population of Europe was slaughtered by Christians

- The African slave trade

Claimed the lives of 10 million

- The Colonial Conquests

Estimates for the number of Native Americans slaughtered by the Europeans in North, Central and South America run as high as 20 million within three generations.

The 20 th century's Western Civilization took warfare to new extremes.

A conservative estimate puts the total number of brutal deaths in the 20 th century at more than 250 million. Of these, Muslims are responsible for less than 10 million deaths. Christians, or those coming from Christian backgrounds account for more than 200 million of these! The greatest death totals come from World War I (about 20 million, at least 90 % of which were inflicted by “Christians”) and World War II ( 90 million, at least 50% of which were inflicted by “Christians,” the majority of the rest occurring in the Far East). Given this grim history, it appears that we Europeans must all come to grips with the fact that Islamic civilization has actually been incomparably less brutal than Christian civilization. Did the Holocaust of over 6 million Jews occur out of the background of a Muslim Civilization?

In the 20th century alone
Western and/or Christian powers have been responsible for at least twenty times more deaths than have Muslim powers. In this most brutal of centuries, we created incomparably more civilian casualties than have Muslims in the whole of Islamic history.

In the 20th century, Rawanda, 1994
Witness the slaughter of 900,000 Rwandans in 1994 in a population that was over 90 % Christian

1992-1995 Bosnia
The genocide of over 300,000 Muslims and systematic rape of over 100,000 Muslim women by Christian Serbs

[Elliott]

Some nice statistics there GL. I can't sympathise with Muslims though, I detest the Islam religion almost as much as Christianity (both for it's religious beliefs and the damage it has cause through terrorist attacks).

[Hotshot101]

We all have our differents beliefs of the bible, though if you read the bible and read about catholic rituals the dark ages and now. I study catholics this year and still am. Catholics may have change a bit in the from the 5th-12th centuries to now, but back then catholic church was just a scam. The clergy just used things like purgatory to just to poke money out of the peasants. People couldn't read the bible back then except wealthy men and the clergy, so it was really bad. Now adays I don't think they scam anymore because people can read, but they still worship Marry, they still believe in purgatory, they even still worship the pope. you find anything in the bible that mentions this, I will just lay off. Even other churches like the lutheran have changed some of the ideas of the bible to make it somewhat the way they want it and thats just not right.

[Golden Legacy]

Agatio, on Jan 3 2007, 08:24 PM, said:

Some nice statistics there GL. I can't sympathise with Muslims though, I detest the Islam religion almost as much as Christianity (both for it's religious beliefs and the damage it has cause through terrorist attacks).

Sounds like you detest religions of all kinds. I just wanted to clarify some things, people associate Islam with extremism, when there are in fact radicals in every faith, as you and I explained earlier.


But that said, this topic is turning to a Religious topic, which it isn't. If you really find this discussion interesting, then by all means, create another topic.

Right now, we are returning to the topic at hand - Suicide.

Continue.

[Hotshot101]

Agatio, on Jan 3 2007, 03:37 PM, said:

Just so we're on the same page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
9 official crusades, plus the rest.

Also:
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway

So it was more of an indoctrination than a crusade, but I never called it a crusade, you misread me (though I admit maybe I didn't present my point clearly).

And for the record, Catholicism is a branch of Christianity, just like Lutheranism and Protestantism. It all came from the same book, one that was written to deify Jesus Christ. Catholics just have a different interpretation of The Bible.

So pull your head out of your ass, get off your high horse, and perhaps read into things a little rather than believing everything you have been raised to.

I know catholics did that. So get your butt out of the past and look at the present. Catholics where harsh back then. it was all conducted back then. You can't blame us for that. I have read a catholic bible its the same dag on thing as we use. They just choose to make it different. You need to look at it for yourself before you really challenge us. Now will you get you butt of your high horse and just leave me alone about the subject!!!!!!!!!!! We all have our different beliefs and if you can't deal with it, then I suggest you get used to it, because there are millions of people who have it. Its no reason to get, so upset now just stop it. Besides each of us is going to bat off until we start saying **** you and other crud

[Elliott]

I like it when a topic changes, but if you want us to return to the matter of suicide, then so be it. I revived the official religion topic anyway, so I suppose we can direct all religious discussion there now.


Good Call, Agatio - GL

[Hotshot101]

I didn't want this topic to turn into a pointless battle over religion and ending up cussing each other to death. Which would end up getting this topic locked. Really do you guys have to be that touchy about it?

Just get back on topic and it won't get locked. ANY battle over religion is pointless, so in turn, it's pointless fighting. - MD

This post has been edited by Mars Djinni: 03 January 2007 - 09:01 PM

[Golden Legacy]

Getting back on topic, I strongly disagree with Agatio and Sheba, about how these suicide bombers are all bluntly brainwashed.

As I said before, circumstances in one's life change; when everything around you, every person you've loved is gone or tortured, your land occupied, your people massacred, you WILL change your outlook.


I do have a formal rebuttal planned, but at the moment, I don't have the time to write up. However, just be aware that it's not black and white; not all people are either entirely good or entirely bad. Likewise, not all suicide bombers die for the destruction of the West or whatever (a number of them do, but plenty don't).

Which I'll work into my real post.

For now, carry on.
And also, don't forget that we're not just talking about suicide bombers here; we're talking about suicide in general.

[Hotshot101]

suiciders have the same ideal. Yes suicide bombers feel like everything has been taken from them and they feal that just kill harmless citizens that didn't do anything is revenge, while killing themselves in the process. It does help you current situation at all. You won't make a difference by blowing yourself and a couple other people with you.

[Golden Legacy]

What if the people you are targeting are of the enemy? Isn't that justifiable enough, to target the people RESPONSIBLE for robbing everything from your life?

[Hotshot101]

Ever heard of revenge is not the answer? You still won't make a difference even if you target the soldiers. Killing so little people isn't going to break an entire country. Suicide bombers don't look at the bigger picture. Killing 5 people isn't going to help you even if it is the ones responsible. Your better off alive then dead.

[Golden Legacy]

Ever heard of emotion taking control of someone? You, as a spectator witnessing these events from the side, find it easy to say that "oh, those guys should just suck it up and move on".

When you find yourself in that position, then you realize that any logic is lost and is irrelevant.

[Mars Djinni]

Hotshot101, on Jan 4 2007, 06:45 PM, said:

Ever heard of revenge is not the answer? You still won't make a difference even if you target the soldiers. Killing so little people isn't going to break an entire country. Suicide bombers don't look at the bigger picture. Killing 5 people isn't going to help you even if it is the ones responsible. Your better off alive then dead.

Killing someone who is responsible is crushing the head off the bug. Sure, it may not do much, but the bug will start twitching and moving in different directions. A scattered people.

One must also take into account how important the ones responsible are to the structure and the following. Are they past their time, been withdrawn for so long that it doesn't matter any more; or are they still able and willing to fight back and their intentions being tailed by the followers?

Murder may not be the best solution to the problem, but it certainly is one of the fastest to reach one kind of resolve, good or bad. This reflects all kinda of suicide as well as homicide.

[Eugine]

I agree with GL.

Maybe after death they may regret it, but in rage, and in those circumstances GL listed, people do crazy things. It's just the id taking over.

On a small scale, everyone did things they wouldn't of do normally when in rage (like usually, no one will fight normally, but in rage things change). I think brainwash is the wrong word. But I do believe extremists do try to make the situation across there worse, or make the Christian countries appear worse.

[Hotshot101]

I will agree that they lose sight of logic even common sense when they lose everything.


MD in order to put an entire country into dissarray you would have to strike at the right place even then you wouldn't do much unless you had some good explosives.

[Golden Legacy]

I've been meaning to make this point for sometime now, and it's (I think) very important to understand.


I'm breaking down a suicide bombing into two aspects.

Killing: Obviously, they kill. And as we've pointed out in the past few posts, usually wanting to kill the enemy is a result of losing family, land, way of life, etc. at the hands of that enemy. And yet, how is this different than any other murder? How is it different than enemy soldiers going to town pillaging it, raping the women, and slaughtering the men by the hundreds?

Which leads me to the second aspect of a suicide bomber.

Suicide: Again, seemingly obvious. They kill themselves in the process. And yet, as we've discussed, suicide in itself is a mixed bag of feelings. Some of us condemn committing suicide, others feel pity for them and associate with their feelings. But for whatever reason, people see this as a reason to condemn them WORSE than anyone else.


For those who think suicide bombers are cold-blooded murderers, tell me, which aspect is it that makes you condemn them so bluntly? That they kill, just like the thousands of soldiers and other murderers out there, or that they commit suicide, because they feel emotion as we do?

[Hotshot101]

GL the soldiers have a reason for killing just as the suicide bombers(besides terrorist), so don't diss them.

No its perfectly fine they have emotions just like us. What they do is pretty much crawling over and giving up. I try to look at it from there side and all I see is them giving in to the enemy. They just wallow over and give it up all hope. They lose more then just there family and life style, ect. They lose there hope and dreams.

[TheEnglishman]

Golden Legacy, on Jan 6 2007, 02:35 AM, said:

For those who think suicide bombers are cold-blooded murderers, tell me, which aspect is it that makes you condemn them so bluntly? That they kill, just like the thousands of soldiers and other murderers out there, or that they commit suicide, because they feel emotion as we do?

That's an excellent point GL. I'm glad you're one of the people who doesn't just say 'they're evil!' and asks questions about why they do it, rather than simply condeming them.

[Golden Legacy]

In my last year of high school, one of my friends by the name of Gabriel committed suicide. I can remember the entire school having a very subdued and gloomy atmosphere for a few weeks afterward... it was so crushing and devastating, and none of us saw it coming. Gabriel was such a sweet and innocent guy, he did not deserve it.

There was a big debate at my school however - some of the administration did not want to present Gabriel's family with an honorary degree or even a graduation certificate, their reasoning being that they do not want to condone or "glorify" what he did. We all created a petition and eventually overturned the decision, but it's something that I won't forget, just how much sheer anger we had regarding that - however, what do you all think about that?

I was thinking about all that recently, and I remembered this topic, and I thought it would be worth talking about - it's such a sensitive issue, I know, but the unfortunate fact is that suicide happens more often than we would like to think.

[Caael]

It doesn't solve anything, Suicide. It's running away from your problems forever, instead of facing up to them.

[Aquamarine]

GL, do you know the reasons for why Gabriel did it? Did he have good reasons?

[Someone Else]

I doubt most living people can have meaningful opinions on this topic. (not aimed at anybody in particular)

[My Best Wishes]

Disturbed - Inside The Fire
Disturbed's new single off of their album. I understand if you don't want to/can't be stuffed to watch the video, but at least watch the message at the start.
Lead singer of Disturbed has experianced sucide close to him, hence the theme of the video.
Opinions on the themes, appropiateness, effectivness, reaction etc?
For a messed up different band like Disturbed I'm a bit surprised at the seriousness and concern they seem to have about the subject. Improved my perception of the band.

Lyrics-
Devon
Won't go to heaven
She's just another lost soul,
About to be mine again
Leave her
we will receive her
It is beyond your control
will you ever meet again

Devon
No longer living
Who had been rendered unwhole
As a little child,
she was taken
and then forsaken
you will remember it all
Let it blow your mind again

[Chorus:]
Devon lies beyond this portal
take the word of one immortal
Give your soul to me
For eternity
release your life
to begin another time with her
End your grief with me
there's another way
release your life
take your place inside the fire with love

Sever
Now and forever
you're just another lost soul about to be mine again
see her, you'll never free her
you must surrender it all
Would you like to meet again

Fire
All you desire
As she begins to turn cold and run out of time
you will shiver
till you deliver
you will remember it all
Let it blow your mind again

[Chorus]

Give your soul to me
For eternity
release your life
to begin another time with her
End your grief with me
there's another way
release your life
take your place inside the fire with love

Devon
No longer living
Who had been rendered unwhole
As a little child
she was taken,
and then forsaken
you will remember it all
Let it blow your mind again...
(Chuckling)

[Laharl]

you could have posted that in the music threads and not revived this

[My Best Wishes]

The song revolves around the issue of suicide, so it's in the suicide topic. I felt like putting it in, and if no one replies then who cares. I contributed something I thought was worth the time.

[Split Infinity]

I know you're a cynical guy, Laharl, but that was just ignorant.

Interesting though, that clip held my attention a lot longer than most music videos I see. I think it conveys its meaning well using in the given medium; I imagine it really would feel like insanity to lose someone you cared about.

[Laharl]

excuse me a minute whilst i revive the Vanity thread coz i heard a song i like that has lyrics about the subject

[redchi]

When I was lil my mom try to committed suicide . i was the one who save her who pull the knife away i was 10 yr old and i didnt want to lose my mom , as i grew up my mom had another depression and she try to committed suicide again and i was there saving her life for 2nd time it was really hard on me coz i had know one to help me then.

[Golden Legacy]

What prompted me to revive this topic is this saddening story about a man named Noel Martin. He was attacked by neo-Nazis and became paralyzed from the neck down, and is now planning to commit suicide.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ine/7733166.stm

This is an appeal to him not to written by Liz Carr, and it's a very passionate letter asking him to choose to live as opposed choosing to die.

Should people be "allowed" to commit suicide? Should they be assisted in doing so?

[Drizzy Drake]

Say you're completely parylized, and have to be waited on hand and foot for the rest of your life..

Do you really want to live, and if it fair to make somebuddy suffer through that?

[Ironsight]

^What is the point of living like that?

[Drizzy Drake]

If I lost my legs, but had the money to support myself, or could do a job sitting (like producing) I'd be content. But full body paralysis? Fuck that.

[Caael]

Neophyte, on Nov 17 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

If I lost my legs, but had the money to support myself, or could do a job sitting (like producing) I'd be content. But full body paralysis? Fuck that.

Stem Cells are the answer.