[Laharl]

Christianity has murdered millions in the name of faith, disgraceful as those acts are they mean little in comparison to what Christianity has done to other faiths.

Religion is the principle cause of prejudice in the world.

that article you linked basically condemns the religion instead of the individuals, go go heavily bias sources.

[Laharl]

Well Christianity seems quite proud of its past, including the crusades and countless persecutions, yet when a few nobodys of its own faith are murdered it goes hysterical. Dont get me wrong i condemn those acts, but i'm pretty sure there is a decent amount of exaggeration and overreaction involved.

Put it this way, if the roles were reversed, no one would care and this thread wouldnt exist.

also, does anyone else find "satanically tortured" incredbily ironic?

[Caael]

This is why I hate religion. Why do people get so worked up about it? "Omg you like different gods to me, I'm gonna beat you down and kill you." It's insanity.

[Nosferatu]

Earth Dude, on Nov 12 2007, 11:48 PM, said:

This is why I hate religion. Why do people get so worked up about it? "Omg you like different gods to me, I'm gonna beat you down and kill you." It's insanity.

It's why I'm neutral.

Well, not really neutral. I just plain hate religions. I'm not willing to listen to anyone who has a strong religious belief.

[Moonear]

I agree with EoD, I strongly believe in my religion, but I wouldn't go around hurting people or even getting mad at anyone if they don't believe the same way I do. I strongly condemn whatever people of my religion might do to other people. You can't label a whole group of people belonging to one race or religion just because some individuals choose to hurt and harm other people. It's not like me or any of my friends would do anything irrational.

[Caael]

It's just extreme prejudice. Not only is it that, but it's insanity. I want to go up to those funking extremists and knock them one in the face. Anybody who gets so worked up about religion just...eugh. Every so often, one of my friends will crack a religion joke, and we all have good laugh about it, but there's always one who goes ' Omg that is SO racist'. If you cant take a small joke about hitler then you deserve a slap.

[Laharl]

Eve of Destiny, on Nov 13 2007, 01:19 PM, said:

Ahhkay, now I understand what you mean Laharl. I just wasn't sure what you were referring to before. These crusades and persecutions committed by so-called Christians were acts of man, not of their religion as a whole, and unfortunately people tend to associate this entirely with everyone who is Christian. I guarantee you that while there are some really crazy people out there, as a Born-Again Christian, I can safely say that this is not even close to what a real Christian is.

pretty sure those acts had the Pope's approval.........

you misunderstand me, my problem lies with Christianity not Christians.

[Blue]

Did you guys here about the woman who is going to get whipped because she named a teddy bear "Muhammed?"
Thats just crazy.
Any ways back on topic, yes, the violence towards christians is getting higher and higher it seems. Still, the church isn't going to let it stop them in missions.

[Laharl]

Blue, on Nov 29 2007, 07:39 AM, said:

Any ways back on topic, yes, the violence towards christians is getting higher and higher it seems.

has nothing to do with the increase in christian countries invading non christian ones. nope. nothing at all.

the bear thing is crazy. i'd call my son Jesus Moses Muhammed so each religion can hate him equally.

its kinda sad that Muhammed is a popular boys name in Islam but use it out of that context and your pure evil

[Ravenblade]

I would like to point out that the "Christianity caused the crusades" tag is getting a little old now - it was like 600 years ago, the world was a different place, get over it. It was fought for political reasons (same as every other war throughout history) with religion just being used as the excuse (same as almost every other war throughout history). This means that if Christianity hadnt existed, all the same stuff would have happened, just with a different "reason". Wake up to the fact that we are all controlled.

Anyways, as for this topic, Im not sure about Christian persecution in China - when i was there i actually attended a lovely Catholic Mass in a very pretty Cathedral in the middle of Beijing. We were warned on arrival not to push our views onto other people, but beyond that, no one said anything to me about being Christian and i met an awful lot of Chinese who shared my faith. I suppose one could argue that the Chinese state controls the Catholic Church in China (rather than the Pope) and that this is oppression of sorts but its not exactly violent.

As for other countries...I think we all just have to accept that the rest of the world isnt as advanced as the West, and still believes that religion through bombs is the way forward. What they dont realise is that we have freed ourselves from the controls of religion, having now swapped them for the controls of globalisation, money, and the most retarded legal systems the world has ever known (specifically, the mass sueing campaigns). Aren't we progressive?

Also, that woman who got in trouble for naming a teddy bear muhammed ended up with 6 days imprisonment and was allowed to return to Britain. So it isnt all bad.

AND, arent all Christians meant to willingly accept persecution anyway? o.O

[Laharl]

Ravenblade, on Dec 13 2007, 07:18 PM, said:

As for other countries...I think we all just have to accept that the rest of the world isnt as advanced as the West, and still believes that religion through bombs is the way forward.

your credibility just died.

and the ignorant comment of the topic award goes to: Ravenblade

wow the middle east has been busy hasn't it? conquering Asia, Africa and South America.

The christians are just doing the same, except their bombs fall from planes and arent strapped to people

Also on the crusades, i'm well aware the world has changed, its the mentality of christianity that remains the same at its powerbase.

[Ravenblade]

K, but for the record, that paragraph was loaded more against the west than the middle east.

And where the hell are you from exactly? Im pretty sure no church within the UK has supported the invasion of Iraq. What the US does with its religion based politics is its own business but i was also under the impression that you guys had a separation of Church and State.

This leads me to believe that SHOCK HORROR it was POLITICS that lead the US to war, and not religion. Perhaps it was oil, maybe the spreading of democracy, could it be a show of strength - who knows?! but it sure as hell wasn't "God said we should go bomb the hell out of the middle east and the Christian world on the whole agrees!"

The mentality of our powerbase is centred around money, that is the single most obvious fact of the Western world. If the West was a remotely moral part of the world then perhaps you could argue Christianity still held sway, but the sad truth is that we hung up the "good old traditional values" thing a long time ago, and now we're just greedy.

Ignorant comment my ***, yours views are so narrow focused your comment actually sounds like Christian groups buy planes and go drop bombs on the middle east. That's actually the role of governments. You would be more likely to find the Christian groups trying to save the people under the bombs - ever heard of the Red Cross?

[Eugine]

Raven, read this...

[Ravenblade]

Yes, im aware Mr Bush thinks he's doing God's work. But if we're all ready to accept that those muslims who blow people up do not represent all of Islam, we have to be ready to accept that the US President also does not represent all of Christianity. To be honest, I dont see how any of you could think he had the intelligence to mastermind any of this anyway.

And furthermore, if you wanted to provide legitimacy for a widely unpoplar invasion in a largely Christian country, wouldn't you say something like that? In the UK, if Tony Blair had said that, he would have been hounded out of office - no one thought it as about Christianity over here - we all thought it was about oil and "remaining friends with the US"

Actually i just thought - ive ended up contradicting myself here - i guess religion still offers some form of control in the US =/ Perhaps the west isnt as progressive as i thought...

[Laharl]

Ravenblade, on Dec 13 2007, 08:13 PM, said:

What the US does with its religion based politics is its own business

when these decisions have a direct affect on the world, i for one think is okay for non-americans to show interest.

Ravenblade, on Dec 13 2007, 08:13 PM, said:

This leads me to believe that SHOCK HORROR it was POLITICS that lead the US to war, and not religion. Perhaps it was oil, maybe the spreading of democracy, could it be a show of strength - who knows?! but it sure as hell wasn't "God said we should go bomb the hell out of the middle east and the Christian world on the whole agrees!"

funny i dont recall saying politics had nothing to the war, i was under the impression even the greatest of idiots could see war and politics go hand in hand.

And damn it, eugine beat me to it.

When zealous leader of a zealous nation declares war bon a country that happens to have a different religion, you cannot deny that religion has some impact upon this.

Ravenblade, on Dec 13 2007, 08:13 PM, said:

The mentality of our powerbase is centred around money, that is the single most obvious fact of the Western world. If the West was a remotely moral part of the world then perhaps you could argue Christianity still held sway, but the sad truth is that we hung up the "good old traditional values" thing a long time ago, and now we're just greedy.

guess where a lot this money comes? non christian nations that have been invaded.

the oil from Iraq should lighten the cost of invasion considerably.

Ravenblade, on Dec 13 2007, 08:13 PM, said:

Ignorant comment my ***, yours views are so narrow focused your comment actually sounds like Christian groups buy planes and go drop bombs on the middle east. That's actually the role of governments. You would be more likely to find the Christian groups trying to save the people under the bombs - ever heard of the Red Cross?

contort my words how you wish, you know i was refering to planes of war. Yes i have heard of the Red Cross, shame they account for a minority of christianity just as the islamic extremists are also a minority. shame that a lot of people are quite happy to generalize this so it applies to the entire Muslim populace.

Ravenblade, on Dec 13 2007, 08:20 PM, said:

Yes, im aware Mr Bush thinks he's doing God's work. But if we're all ready to accept that those muslims who blow people up do not represent all of Islam, we have to be ready to accept that the US President also does not represent all of Christianity. To be honest, I dont see how any of you could think he had the intelligence to mastermind any of this anyway.

True, but the islamic miniority does not hlod the same kind of power as Mr. Bush. is lack of intelligence clearly shows there are other high ranking officials willing to use chrisitianity as a fornt to do their own bidding

[quote name='Ravenblade' date='Dec 13 2007, 08:20 PM' post='351858']
And furthermore, if you wanted to provide legitimacy for a widely unpoplar invasion in a largely Christian country, wouldn't you say something like that? In the UK, if Tony Blair had said that, he would have been hounded out of office - no one thought it as about Christianity over here - we all thought it was about oil and "remaining friends with the US"[/quotel]

The US is a more religious than the UK by a lot. It would not surprise me if that comment did something to sway the opinion of those in the bible belt

[Ravenblade]

well of course, id be inclined to agree that that comment would indeed sway the Bible belt - im not saying that Christianity has not been used as a tool here - my point was that sweeping generalisations such as "Christians dropping bombs on middle eastern countries" is completely out of order.

You have just said yourself that Christianity has been used as a front by high ranking officers. I do not dispute this - infact, if you refer back to my original post, thats exactly the kind of thing i said Christianity got bad press for. My original point was that all this stuff would happen with or without Christianity, and so blaming the excuse, as you are doing, is totally pointless. You need to blame the politics.

I will not be grouped in with this - i am Christian and opposed the Western middle eastern policies from day one, as a result of my religious beliefs. I cannot believe that this many people outside of the UK actually believe that religion matters to anyone in power besides forcing stupider people to do their bidding x.x

[Lightning Star]

Religious wars have taken place. Obviously, anyone who doesn't know that is an ignorant fool. You can't simply point the finger at Christianity--look at the ones who killed thousands of lives on 911. The terrorists did what they did because they believed it was right.

I think the bottom line comes down to how far you should go to express your beliefs. In every religion there are radicals. There are radical Christians, Jews, Muslims. (Well, maybe not Buddhism, I'm not sure. That seems to be somewhat of an oxymoron. Heh, radical Buddhist...)

One thing is for sure, it's a losing battle here on earth. We cannot know what lies ahead, therefore, we make judgments about what we think is right and wrong. Someday we'll figure out, and in the mean time, I've come to the conclusion that when arguing the topic, there is never a true "winner".

[Ravenblade]

You know, i dont actually believe Bin Laden did 9/11 for religious reasons, I also think that was political. He wanted to send a message to America to get the hell out of the Middle East and he did. There's nothing religious about that, especially as he used to accept so much US help. He has however used religion to whip up muslim wrath upon the West. So...another tool to manipulate the masses. Im sure people would disagree with this point but im just showing consistancy of opinion on my part.

Its also worth pointing out that we're not fighting any particular country in this Bin Laden thing so its strange to call it a War. We're fighting a radical group that belongs to no country in particular.

EDIT - we are so far off topic now its unreal x.x The point i wish people had picked up one was that China doesnt persecute Christians in any noticeable way >O *defends China*