[Adam]

I picked "E". Rap has no origins in music barely at all. It simply is a bunch of guys who can imitate Dr. Seuss and rhyme, but faster and on-the-spot. If that can get you places in life, then so should being able to swallow your gum and cough it back up again.
Hip-hop isn't *that* bad, but I still hate everyone humming the beat to "Yeah" by Usher. It drives me nuts!
Now don't go home thinking that I'm racist, because 95% of rap and hip-hop is performed by African-American people. I have nothing against these people*. But I just hate the "music" they "perform".

*exceptions to the rule are "pimps", i.e. Snoop Dogg (so creative, adding another "g")

[Nemphtis]

I was born and raised in London. Rap culture has always been very big here since my childhood. I love Rap, Hip-Hop, R&B.

Although I can also undertand why some people don't like it.

I don't like rock much, that doesn't mean I'm going to complain like a sterotype about how annoying it is because it's just loud goths screaming at the top pf their heads making as much noise as possible.

All types of Music is beautiful, you just need to know how to seperate the bad songs from the good ones. All that takes is common sense.

[Illidan]

Adam, on Mar 12 2005, 06:49 AM, said:

I picked "E". Rap has no origins in music barely at all. It simply is a bunch of guys who can imitate Dr. Seuss and rhyme, but faster and on-the-spot. If that can get you places in life, then so should being able to swallow your gum and cough it back up again.
Hip-hop isn't *that* bad, but I still hate everyone humming the beat to "Yeah" by Usher. It drives me nuts!
Now don't go home thinking that I'm racist, because 95% of rap and hip-hop is performed by African-American people. I have nothing against these people*. But I just hate the "music" they "perform".

*exceptions to the rule are "pimps", i.e. Snoop Dogg (so creative, adding another "g")

Eh? Seriously you people who decide to diss a certain music type should really stop. It's disrespectful to the people who actually like it. If it's not your thing then good for you. Stop complaining about it all because you may not like it. Not everyone is the same.


I personally love urban music. I was raised on it my whole life. Those who complain about it being too commercial and trash, you probably haven't looked further into the type. If you don't want to then that's ok but don't go dissing music types you don't know much about. There is good urban music out there if you look carefully.

[Nemphtis]

Very true. To quote hte greatest living man on Earth, myself: "if you don't like it, stfu!". :P

It's okay not to like something, but if you can't understand the music then don't diss it really. You need to listen to some Lil' Zane.

Also there are over 12 types of Rap, what type are you actually talking about? Gangster Rap?

[Venus_Man1]

Well, the first Rap Star I actually started listening to was Xzibit. And I was 9 years old. Ever since that, I've been listening to many other Rap Stars. Snoop Dogg, Dr.Dre etc etc. I also like Rock, Heavy Metal and others, but Rap will always be "my music".

[Illidan]

I really don't bother categorizing it myself. =) I listen to all types. All types have their advantages and disadvantages in my opinion. I just generally look for stuff that is good in my opinion.

[Nemphtis]

Exactly, let me put it as simple as possible:

It's not the music genre you will will love or hate, it's the song.

[el_Sethro]

I don't like it generally, but I don't mind it. though I prefer not to listen to most rap, I don't bear any ill will towards those responsible for doing it. There is some Hip-hop I like, though. P.O.D. is awesome, I loved K-os's Crabbukit (sp?) and "The Man I Used To Be", and I like some of Black Eyed Peas' stuff, too. Rap, not so much. Overall, my vote goes to ©

[Ravenblade]

Im apathetic as ever^^

I agree with Anubis though, it really does depend on the song. I liked Ushers "Yeah" cos it was lively and catchy, but there are other tunes that i just cant appreciate. So yeah im indifferent - i just like music.

[l3lueMage]

I chose E, I hate rappers, I dont like the sound of rap, and rappers try talking all cool like dis ya homies XDD

[Izar]

el_Sethro, on Mar 14 2005, 01:16 PM, said:

I don't like it generally, but I don't mind it. though I prefer not to listen to most rap, I don't bear any ill will towards those responsible for doing it. There is some Hip-hop I like, though. P.O.D. is awesome, I loved K-os's Crabbukit (sp?) and "The Man I Used To Be", and I like some of Black Eyed Peas' stuff, too. Rap, not so much. Overall, my vote goes to ©

POD's Aesome! One of the greatest christian rock bands I know, but they aren't hip hop or rap...

I don't like rap, at all... there is not a single rap song i like, blarg.

"look at m rims fool and my grill" :P

[el_Sethro]

Izar, on Mar 14 2005, 05:59 PM, said:

POD's Aesome! One of the greatest christian rock bands I know, but they aren't hip hop or  rap...

well, I kind of consider them hip-hop/hard rock, as they do often rap, as well as sing (kinda like Linkin Park). I donno; that's just me (actually, they're in the "Metal" section at the local HMV store)

[Mewt]

I would say that I'm indifferent to the types of music out-lined here. Hmm, so when I was 14 I was kinda into RnB, but then I got into ... well, I don't know, but I started to dislike the new songs coming out of that genre. I have liked a few Rap songs, and I will admit that some of them are classic songs. But generally, if there's something like that on the radio, I'll change stations to find some Rock music.

Plus it's a large part of some people's culture, and I would never want to disrespect that. I was never introduced to Urban music until I was a teenager, and I grew up listening to Queen, Elton John, Simply Red etc thanks to my parents ... lmao. How different can you get? ^^;;

[Echo_djinn]

Rap does not suck. I hear it all the time I am in my school. Funny thing is most of the people who say that have only heard two songs from G-unit and Nelly and judge that on the whole rap type of music. Rap songs usually have a great beat to them and you can dance to hip hop songs. It's all good in my eyes.

[Izar]

el_Sethro, on Mar 14 2005, 02:34 PM, said:

well, I kind of consider them hip-hop/hard rock, as they do often rap, as well as sing (kinda like Linkin Park). I donno; that's just me (actually, they're in the "Metal" section at the local HMV store)

Bah, Purevolume lists them as just Rock... Every store I go to it's the same thing...

I just can't stand rap, I hear it all the time since my school is rap-oriented. Most people in my school love it. :)

[Adam]

OK, I do give hip-hop points and acknowledgment for being dance-able, but, come on. I would rather headbang to some metal than dance to hip-hop. Jeez.

In my opinion, of course.

[Nemphtis]

I fail to see anything to dance about when it comes to metal or rock. That doesn't mean I'm going to say it's awful. But Rap/Hip-Hop/R&B I can dance to from here to America without getting tired.

A couple of songs I'm dancing to right now:

Marques Houston - Clubbin'
RayJay - Shake That
Fabolous - Peaches & Cream
Young Rome feat. Omarion - Freaky

All those recent songs have some great beats to dance to and the lyrics are quite good too. :rolleyes:

It's all about your opinion, you can't actually state as a fact that Rap sucks or rocks, but you CAN state that "I don't like rap personally, but I can aknowledge the fact many others do".

[Illidan]

Oooh well the urban songs I'm into right now are mainly R&B with some hip hop:

Talk About Our Love - Brandy/Kanye West
1 2 Step - Ciara (sorry that song is catchy XP)
Street Dreams - Someone I don't know.
Street Dreams - Nas/2pac (different one XD)

And generally music from Common and De La Soul. Good rap indeed. =)

[Nemphtis]

Yeha De La Soul is good too, havn't listened to them for quite a while though. :wacko:

[Illidan]

Also Immortal Technique and Jurassic 5 deserve recognition. They may not be as famous as some others but they're pretty good. :wacko:

[Kite]

Echo_djinn, on Mar 14 2005, 03:47 PM, said:

Rap does not suck. I hear it all the time I am in my school. Funny thing is most of the people who say that have only heard two songs from G-unit and Nelly and judge that on the whole rap type of music. Rap songs usually have a great beat to them and you can dance to hip hop songs. It's all good in my eyes.

XD Oh yea, I cannot agree with that more. <3~~
I love hiphip, rap, and R&B. I cant stand rock (oh goodness, dont get me started) and I dont like country (XD waaay too nasty..). I really like some rap though, but I tend to tip over to hiphop and R&B. XD Its also a part of my life~ I simply cannot LIVE without BET, MTV(2), VH1. ^^ Some of my favourite artists have to be Nelly, Nas (I love his new song), Ciara (yay for catchy tunes!~), Brandy, Kanye(sp?) West, and mainly alot of new hiphop. <3~~ I also like alot of oldschool rappers like NWA, Public Enemy.. Will Smith.. XD in other words, alot of oldschool rap and alot of newschool hip-hip and R&B.
Oh yea, Im sorry to say this but, Over and Over sucked BUTT. >>;

[Someone Else]

I have the same opinion on rap and hip-hop as Kite does. Rap and Hip-Hop... I really can't describe it. I think they're all dumb. =/

[Kite]

Wind Dude, on Mar 16 2005, 10:11 PM, said:

I have the same opinion on rap and hip-hop as Kite does. Rap and Hip-Hop... I really can't describe it. I think they're all dumb. =/

No, I love hiphop. I just think Over and Over sucked BUTT. o__o;;

[Nemphtis]

You mean that song by Kelly? Dude that song is classic, I love that song. :D

[Kite]

Anubis, on Mar 18 2005, 03:40 AM, said:

You mean that song by Kelly? Dude that song is classic, I love that song. :D

Kelly..? R. Kelly? o__o;;
No, that song by Nelly and Tim McGraw. That song was WHACK before the video came out, and now its whack as ever. >>;

[TheDogWho]

I don't like rap. It's just talking over a record, but fast except for The Streets who just talk over as record but normal speed.

[Venus dude 21]

ROCK PWNS!!
I really don't like rap, but i can stand them being alive.
Each to their own, so let rappers be them and rockers be them.
Hip hop, no mercy, burn them.

[Illidan]

Before anyone says anything. Yes it DOES require talent. More than you think. =/

[Elliott]

So they take the time to learn an instrument?
Do they devote their life to their music and their band mates?
Do they have the skill to play an instrument with other musicians?
Do they write their own backing music? (not lyrics, instrumentation)
Does their genre have a history dating back more than 30 years?

I see no talent in rap or hip hop.
The only rap that deserves recognition is the type where do it REALLY fast, cause that just sounds awesome (i.e. the dude from Outkast).

On the other side of the spectrum, look at Liquid tension experiment. All prodigies in their instruments, spend years learning and refining their ART, in order to make the best music they can. Also, look at Virgil Donati. The greatest, drummer ever, period. Been playing for decades, you will never find someone better. My point is, these people take the time and effort to develop a skill. The majority of rappers do nothing of the sort. They’re marketed by suits to make money for a recording company. Where is the talent?

By the way, I've done a course in music, so I do know what I'm talking about. Hip hop requires zero talent, except maybe an tiny bit of lyrical prowess. Rap does occasionally have some, in the case of the guy from Outkast. Other than that, nothing.

The same applies for pop (Britney etc.).

Never ever say Rap and Hip Hop requires more talent than rock, punk, metal, experimental etc. It's a downright lie.

[Someone Else]

Sorry, but I just have to say that I agree with 100% of what Agatio is saying.

That is all.

[Nemphtis]

Kite, on Mar 18 2005, 04:22 PM, said:

Kelly..? R. Kelly? o__o;;
No, that song by Nelly and Tim McGraw. That song was WHACK before the video came out, and now its whack as ever. >>;

Oops, sorry dude, typo. I meant Nelly. I like Nelly he's an awesome artist IMO, I loved that song Over & Over, it had alot of meaning for me personally. :P

[Illidan]

Agatio, on Mar 19 2005, 03:54 PM, said:

So they take the time to learn an instrument?
Do they devote their life to their music and their band mates?
Do they have the skill to play an instrument with other musicians?
Do they write their own backing music? (not lyrics, instrumentation)
Does their genre have a history dating back more than 30 years?

1. Actually some do, for example Alicia Keys and Stevie Wonder. Nevertheless rap is the focus on flow. Not instruments. You may not think this but rap has a rhythm and is considered music because of the speciality of the flow. It is a talent, and if it's that easy as you say then why don't YOU try creating a rap song then hmm? Anyone can play an instrument. It's a matter if they stand above many others that enables you to determine talent. SAME with rap.

2. Erm duh, of course they do. They're very loyal to their band mates and their music. O_o

3. Depends, some of them can actually play an instrument. But for the most who just specialize in rap, they might not be able to play an instrument but they have the skill to entwine each other's flow.

4. Yes, for example, Dr. Dre and Eminem. Also 2pac did too and a lot of others. ^~ Sometimes they also make beats with a DJ kit. Which is a skill as well as making beats in general.

5. Way more than 30 years. Actually it passes 100 years. Hip hop was originated in Africa and is actually a very old genre.

My my Agatio you really know absolutely nothing about hip hop or urban music. I suggest you start getting your facts straight before you say anything at all.

[Nemphtis]

lol Well & Truly schooled.

Looking forward to see Agatio's "counter-attack" for that post. =)

[Elliott]

Fact remains.
Everything > Rap and Hip Hop.
Nuff said.

[Nemphtis]

That is opinion, but here's a fact: Country music will NEVER own anything. :P

[Illidan]

Agatio, on Mar 19 2005, 07:24 PM, said:

Fact remains.
Everything > Rap and Hip Hop.
Nuff said.

Pshah! Do you have anything else relevant to say? Because really if all you have to say is “Too bad Everything > hip hop/rap the end” then please refrain from saying anything else. You’re ignorance amuses me sometimes Agatio, because you fail to see that your reason behind disliking rap is an opinion, not a fact. You’re reasoning is irrelevant to this point might I add. I do hope you learn to have more respect for those who like the genre, or any other music types you may dislike.

[Kikuichimonji]

Actually, I would have put Alicia Keys (who is an awesome pianist) and Stevie Wonder under RnB, so you can't really count that as rap.

However the rest is correct, I believe Rap/Hip Hop was a branching off the Blues/Slave songs or something.

Unfotunately, I agree with Agatio, I don't like it, exempt Eminem because the guy cracks me up...but I don't care. You guys stick with Urban genres, I'll stick with Rock genres.

EDIT-How can I forget, Linkin Parks good too but I guess it's mixed

[Nemphtis]

The Girl has a point, Alicia Keys is R'n'B, not Rap.

[Illidan]

But RnB does fall into the category of urban music, and effectively I'm sure Agatio meant the whole of that genre.

Kiku you agree with Agatio? So you think rap and hip hop are for talentless people that create absolute trash? Wow that's a suprise, I would have thought you respected all music choices. Guess I was wrong.

Thank God for the GSR forums. XD ...>_>

[Kikuichimonji]

Agatio, on Mar 19 2005, 04:54 AM, said:

So they take the time to learn an instrument?
Do they devote their life to their music and their band mates?
Do they have the skill to play an instrument with other musicians?
Do they write their own backing music? (not lyrics, instrumentation)
Does their genre have a history dating back more than 30 years?

I see no talent in rap or hip hop.

....

Never ever say Rap and Hip Hop requires more talent than rock, punk, metal, experimental etc. It's a downright lie.

There you go. Basically, I think every type of music must have some form of talent to actually be somewhat pleasing to the ear. I just don't see it as much in Rap/Hip Hop

[Illidan]

Because you probably fail to explore the genre deeper. You have no idea for those people who say that it doesn't require as much talent. Go listen to 2pac and see if you can rap as good as he does. >_>

[Nemphtis]

She lives in London like me, rap culture and gangsters are everywhere here, so I'm sure she doesn't mind Rap music. =P

[Illidan]

Erm she just said she didn't like it? o-o

[Kikuichimonji]

I didn't say I hated it, I just prefer rock music that's all =\

EDIT- only seven posts later but

POST 2000 hell yeh!!

[Illidan]

I didn't say you hated it. I said that you said you disliked it. o-o

[Kikuichimonji]

yeh that true, compared to rock music..look I can see there has to be some talent in it aswell, it's just my preference

[/end spammage]

[Nemphtis]

Last I remember talking to her, she said she didn't mind rap. As in it's a neutral thing.

[Illidan]

Ok but what Agatio's saying is different. He's stating it as a fact, which is wrong. So you see completely agreeing with him was my concern. ^~

[Kikuichimonji]

let me put this straight, I voted C because like anubis says, I don't care.

[Nemphtis]

I don't agree with Agatio's opinion, there is tallent in Rap. But I can't be bothered to debate about something like this. You can't force someone into agreeing with your ideals.

Of course the way he said it was a bit blunt and fact-like but I doubt it was meant to be perceived that way since I think Agatio is smart enough to what when he is stating a fact or an opinion.

[Illidan]

Oh ok who cares. >_> All I say for some of you to respect it as a genre of music, that is all. I'm not saying you have to like it or something but you don't know how many people yell at me because of my music taste. o.o

[Elliott]

Look guys, I can’t help it if I happen to like the best music in the world and nothing else. Luck? Coincidence? I dunno, all I know is that RAP IS CRAP. Live with it! You may think it sounds good, but put it next to Liquid Tension Experiment, Opeth, Dream Theatre etc. etc. etc., and it is NOTHING!

[Nemphtis]

I've listened to Dream Theatre and Liquid Tension, and in my opinion it not only owns those groups but it also does a driveby on them just to add insult to injury. :P

[Elliott]

What it comes down to is opinion. No one is right or wrong *twitches*. I will stick to my metal, punk, rock, experimental and all that, and you guys can sit there listening to urban/hip-hop/rap etc. You may think it sounds cool, awesome, makes you feel good and all that crap, but when it comes down to it, what I listen to is overall better. So have your urban music, and enjoy it, it can’t compare to what I listen to in the long run.

[Nemphtis]

In your much apreciated opinion, that is.

[Adam]

holy p00t... i leave for like a week and this topic is like four pages! insanity, i tell you.

anyways, i'm glad to see that "E" is winning :P

[Nemphtis]

I'm happy there's at least 3 big rap fans on GSSF. That's surprising in a good way coming from a Nintendo-fan-forum. =)

[Someone Else]

I can see why you guys like your rap and hip-hop, but I don't like rap MOSTLY because:

It sounds like a guy talking funny with reapitive background music.

And hip-hop...

It sounds... well I dunno. Never listened to it that much.

But again, I can see why you guys like it. =) I just like rock better, but at any rate I chose D.

[Mewt]

Well, I must admit that I think a lot of rappers have talent - it may be a different talent to that of other musicians, but I take my hat off to very good rappers. It's very difficult to rap like many of them can (well, I think it probably is). Plus a lot of RnB singers have great voices, so they're talented too. The fact is that I just don't listen to their music. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect urban music stars who sell millions of records. I mean, there's got to be something good about it if there are loads of fans of it, right? Umm, that's what I think, you know what I mean.

I would say I'm a rock fan, but I'm not even sure what rock means anymore. There are too many genres within it. >< All I can say is that I went to a gig with RnB/Soul music and didn't twitch a muscle. I went to an Industrial rock concert and I jumped up and down the whole time. That's the type of music that gets me going. :P

[Izar]

Illidan, on Mar 19 2005, 01:44 AM, said:

Way more than 30 years. Actually it passes 100 years. Hip hop was originated in Africa and is actually a very old genre.

I think he means the tune, the genre it's self. Rap originated back around the 70's to 80's, yet it's originalities (not called rap) were from africa, the lyrics, however, were completely different in terms.

I myself am not interested in rap, for the same reasons as Wind Dude. It's just not apealing to me... I prefer songs like "Screams of the Undead" and "Not Ready to Die" and "A Text-message to a So-Called Emperor." :mellow:

[Illidan]

Agatio, on Mar 20 2005, 12:53 AM, said:

What it comes down to is opinion. No one is right or wrong *twitches*. I will stick to my metal, punk, rock, experimental and all that, and you guys can sit there listening to urban/hip-hop/rap etc. You may think it sounds cool, awesome, makes you feel good and all that crap, but when it comes down to it, what I listen to is overall better. So have your urban music, and enjoy it, it can’t compare to what I listen to in the long run.

In your opinion yes. As a factual basis, no.

Quote

I think he means the tune, the genre it's self. Rap originated back around the 70's to 80's, yet it's originalities (not called rap) were from africa, the lyrics, however, were completely different in terms.

All music types have evolved over the years, not only urban music. And no rap itself wasn't originated in the 70s either. Even though the Africans didn't discover it at the time, they were producing what we know today as rap music.

[Elliott]

Thanks Izar, that's exactly what I meant =).

Like Izar and I said Illidian, I mean contemporary rap, the stuff you listen to (I doubt you sit in your room with 100 year old African rap music playing...). Rock however dates back 50 years, and its instruments centuries like the piano, drums, even guitars go back a long way (lutes). Aside from the history, there is the sound. Like WD said (and put it perfectly might I add). It just sounds like a guy talking to a repetitive beat. Yes the beat IS repetitive 9 songs out of 10, and yes, it DOES sound like he is talking. There is no growl, no clean singing, not even a hit of punk, or bravado, nothing. Just talking. Next, the lyrics. The majority is sex/drugs/booze related, and then there is the egotistical rap. Rap where he/she simply talks themself up to be a ‘gangsta’. There is, of course, there is a small portion of rap that douse contain meaningful lyrics, well done to those people (i refuse to call them artists). I know you will come back with your usual comeback of "you don't know about the underground and spiritual rap". Well, for one, I don't give 2 ****s about "old and spiritual rap". It's meaningless like the rest. It sounds the same, they look the same, and the majority of it sounds the same. Clichéd as it may sound; rap is simply retards attempting poetry. So have it if you like, in the end the majority of them are marketed no talents who only get the job based on looks, and for the small minority who do posses lyrical talent, good on them, but your music still sounds like repetitive, droning, vocal-deprives crap.

[Illidan]

Again as I said you are describing what is called commercial rap. I neither like those sort of songs, but like I said each genre has a bad side to it. And of course it is a shame that the negative side of it has overtaken rap as popular music today. But I don't listen to that, and hell I'll be glad to say IT ISN'T a majority of the whole genre, not one bit. Only a majority of what's famous today. And you obviously don't know what spiritual rap is AT ALL. You think most spiritual rap is the egotistical type am I right? "Spiritual about being gangsta"? Pfft you know nothing. It's completely different.

My advice is don't diss any music type in general if you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I can see clearly that you don't.

[Elliott]

Quote

You think most spiritual rap is the egotistical type am I right? "Spiritual about being gangsta"? Pfft you know nothing. It's completely different.

Ah no. You're mistaken, I never said that, and, I never intended to.

[Illidan]

Then I don't see a suitable reason why you think it's trash also?

[Elliott]

Because it all sounds the same to me. All has the repetetive backbeat, the same vocal style (the guy talking). Just 'nothing' music, not even suitable for background noise.

[Illidan]

Good for you that's your opinion. But it's not a fact at all like you make it sound. Becareful Agatio, you may be insulting other people with your comments even if you don't realise.

[Elliott]

I'm fully aware I may be insulting people. But when it comes down to it, I honestly could not care less. You see, I don't like your music, I don't want you to waste time listening to it, so why I should I care if I am involuntarily insulting you by bagging it out?

[Illidan]

Agatio, on Mar 22 2005, 11:23 PM, said:

I'm fully aware I may be insulting people. But when it comes down to it, I honestly could not care less. You see, I don't like your music, I don't want you to waste time listening to it, so why I should I care if I am involuntarily insulting you by bagging it out?

I didn't say you would care but don't be suprised if other's lose respect for you over time.

Quote

I don't want you to waste time listening to it

Do you have a choice in the matter? No, so just drop it and respect that urban music is a popular choice. Don't like it? Tough. But don't you go insulting others because of your lack of understanding, hmph. :)

I seriously cannot believe you would insult a person because of their music choice.

I hate rock, does that mean I should insult you for liking it then hmmm? No, so do us a favor and don't say anything at all about this matter.

[Elliott]

Quote

I didn't say you would care but don't be suprised if other's lose respect for you over time.

Like I care what you people think...?

Quote

I seriously cannot believe you would insult a person because of their music choice.

I don't remember insulting anyone directly...

Quote

No, so do us a favor and don't say anything at all about this matter.

Ah...

no...

Quote

No, so just drop it and respect that urban music is a popular choice.

Unfortunately. I feel sorry for those people, as they don't realise how much better music can really be.

Quote

lack of understanding

I have complete understanding. All music > rap

[Illidan]

You're obviously in denial if you think all music > rap. You don't have to insult anyone directly, but that doesn't mean you're not insulting them. And besides if you're aware of it then you intend to do it. You have no respect at all Agatio.

Quote

Unfortunately. I feel sorry for those people, as they don't realise how much better music can really be.

And I feel sorry for you that your ignorance gets the better of you Agatio. I do hope you will learn one day.

I grew up on urban music, and so did the rest of my family. Urban music is the basis of our family, and look I turned out to be fine and so did my mother? I don't see how urban music can affect anyone. It sounds good and the people who take their time to produce urban music are more talented than you think.

[Elliott]

To be honest, I really don't care anymore, and I stopped caring about 5 posts ago. I just found it amusing to watch you come back again again with the same basic comeback. Congratulations Illidan, you have made me laugh =) .
What it boils down to, is that I'm right, I know I'm right, and I don't need to justify it to you, or anyone else. So like I said earlier, enjoy your music, and I hope one day you realise that there IS better music out there. Until such time, enjoy your urban tripe.

[Illidan]

The reason why I have the same comebacks is because you're making the same comments over and over again. All I ever hear you say is ZOMG ALL PWN RAP THE END I AM RITE BECUZ I SAID SOW. So don't blame me for my repetitiveness, blame yourself for yours.

[Venus dude 21]

I have to take Agatio's side here. Rap is just talking repeditvly, and it does get annoying. The lyrics aren't too essensial in rock, just the good music.

[Yokutai]

I have to agree with Venus Dude 21 and Agatio.

Rap just keeps repeating itself on and on, and some rap or whatever you want to call it has bad vocal singers >.<

And I've yet to see a Rapper come up with something that hasn't been used already.

[Adam]

I'm pretty sure I already said this...but...holy crap! This topics grown faster than weed in my neighbors backyard (just kidding)! I never would have guessed that GS users would be that into the genre. But "E" still pwns you all.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Hip Hop is great! *votes the first one*

EDIT: *looks at how many ppl voted for E* WTF? You people dont like Hip Hop??? :P

[Eugine]

Nothing is wrong with hip-hop, just not my favorite genre.

[Izar]

I don't like it, as I said before, But I don't wish they would all die, just... change direction.

[Illidan]

Izar, on Mar 22 2005, 11:35 AM, said:

I think he means the tune, the genre it's self. Rap originated back around the 70's to 80's, yet it's originalities (not called rap) were from africa, the lyrics, however, were completely different in terms.

I myself am not interested in rap, for the same reasons as Wind Dude. It's just not apealing to me... I prefer songs like "Screams of the Undead" and "Not Ready to Die" and "A Text-message to a So-Called Emperor."  :P

It doesn't matter Izar. Every music genre continues to alter. Rap may not be as good as it was back in the old school but who is to say the whole of the genre is trash because of that?

There are some decent lyrics out there still. For the people who bother to investigate, you know what I mean. =)

[Black Mage]

meh, some of it is annoying but i still like eminem, snoop dogg and sometimes 50 cent

[Illidan]

Black Mage, on May 15 2005, 12:59 PM, said:

meh, some of it is annoying but i still like eminem, snoop dogg and sometimes 50 cent

-__- That's basically the majority of the artist which make hip hop so commercial today. I only like some of their beats, because Dre pwns. =)

[Neo]

My late -- as always -- opinion bout this.
my vote goes between A 'n B. I really like Rap, preferable M&M, G-Unit (not the best, but o.k.) and a local gang called D-Men. and ofcourse nobody here can forget 2Pac, the father of Rap.
I know lots of people don't like rap lately, but I really don't care, I like it, and that's enough for me.

[Dullahan]

i can just think back to mine and Agatio's anti-urban rantings many months ago. i can also remember certain comments that disgusted even Agatio, which led to a warning, however an apology is out of the question.
I can not stress enough how much i hate urban music, but using new found self control i will not ridicule it viciously, i will leave this topic to the people interested in it.

[Adam]

Wow...insane how my old topics just keep getting dug up, eh?
Anyways, not only do I not like urban because "it's too mainstream", but it's all they show on MTV for videos these days. That's why, me not having extended cable, VH1 is now my channel of choice for videos.

[Golden Legacy]

I typically do not listen to music as frequently as most people, but I will say that I find Hip-Hop to be all right, and I utterly despise Rap (perhaps some very rare exceptions, but that is generally how I feel).

[Dullahan]

however i must pay homage to 2pac fro getting that b*****d frog off number 1.

[Venus_Man1]

Nowadays, rap sucks. Snoop Dogg has lost it completely. Eminem too. And I've never liked 50 Cent. The rap of today makes me sad.

[Golden Djinn13]

I love Rap, Hip-Hop, and R&B ( even though its not listed) but anyway like it is said much earlier on ( a long time ago by Anubis and Illidan) I think its really disrespectful for u people to insult the music that other people enjoy listening to.

[Echo_djinn]

Rap is rap. Yeah that sounded like c*a* but thats my take on it. Rap appeals to some people and it doesn't to others. I listen to it and other types of music as well. They all have there faults and good points.

[theblueflames]

I voted for E... I tried to watch 24 hours of Foo last night on MTV...drove me crazy on commercials. I still listen to Nirvana ^_^, but whenever rap comes on I'm forced to mute it and punch something.... it sticks in my head too...like...gluey....doodie.

[Dullahan]

i don't mind rap unless it's in an urban context, stuff like Linkin park is great.

[pHantOm]

Dullahan, on Jun 30 2005, 04:54 AM, said:

i don't mind rap unless it's in an urban context, stuff like Linkin park is great.

Agreed, but they arent considered Rap.

I want them all to die, and if history serves itself all the rappers will kill themselves so Im just waiting.

[theblueflames]

It doens't even have to be painful, as long as they can't hire any more people to sing songs for them, thats good enough.

[Adam]

;) this topic still exists? Egad!

Anyways, a terrible thought just occoured: if they died, then people would just worship him more (see: Tupac [who tried to get a six-pack but stopped one-third of the way]).

[theblueflames]

Hmm....lets hire ice cream men to hypnotize their rap beliefs away! Well, bleh....hmm...what used to be bad is now socially popular.... It kinda sucks, so...we need to introduce something good that will take people by the masses.

[Dullahan]

reinvent holy music! it was a suggestion, not one i'd like either. You could probably make some good money betting on which rapper will get shot next.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Why do you people don't like Rap & Hip Hop? I love that music. I think it's alot better than all those rock and county music...

[Venus_Man1]

Just let them think what they want. People just think different. Chill out.

[theblueflames]

Yeah, I'm gonna stop insulting it now though...I don't like it because it has absolutely no beat, you can't tap your feet to it, and they 'sing' about nonesense too.

[Dullahan]

DiddyKong, on Jul 3 2005, 01:09 PM, said:

Why do you people don't like Rap & Hip Hop?

hmmm....that's tough, the complete lack of beat, the lack of skillful instruments, the pathetic excuse of vocals, the way everything is slagged off from anubiss to women, the way they are quite happy to shoot each because someone was in someone else's lyrics, the fact it inspires a generation of yob scum who have nothing better to do than write "Long Live 2pac" or "ganstas on drugs" on subway wallz, also rapper talk, put simply is crap and shows they all clearly have language degrees. I fi were to go on i probably strat swearing so consider yourself lucky.

[Illidan]

Opinion - Someone's own idealogy.
Fact - Is something PROVEN.

Reminder: Please don't try to make factual statements unless you provide substancial evidence to support your argument. This is not a debate, but mearly a preferential discussion.

Quote

and as for white rappers, the most talented rap artists i know of are white. Aesop Rock, El-P, Sage Francis, and THE BEASTIE BOYS are excellent rappers of light skin color. the "ethnic minority" thing you're talking about, you meaning acting "gangster" and idolizing criminals? that's not an "ethnic minority" thing (and that's actually quite a racist thought on your part). it's a sort of "ghetto" culture, there isn't (or at least shouldn't be) an ethnic correlation there.

[Elliott]

DiddyKong, on Jul 4 2005, 04:09 AM, said:

Why do you people don't like Rap & Hip Hop?

I'll give my take as well.

For starters, there is not much, if any actual singing (or screaming/growling/crooning, whatever you like). The vocalist for rap music talks to a beat (I'll get to that in a second). Then there is the lyrical content. Gangsta rap speaks for itself. Afro Americans talking about their lives growing up on the street. Then there is soul rap, just talking (note the "talking") about what they feel. That's all well and good, but it makes up a very small portion of what rap listeners actually listen to. Most listen to mainstream, which consists of Gangsta rap. I'm no expert in rap subgenres as you can tell, but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Anyway, moving on to the instrumentation, or lack thereof as is the case in most rap songs. The backing side of rap is generally done by someone on a computer. It's very repetitive, usually a simple beat comprised of a bass/hi-hat/snare combo. There is little to no other instrument used.

Now, put that up against rock/punk/metal/experimental. They use well thought out lyrical content, a variety of instruments (guitar, drums, keys, bass etc.) that are actually played by real people (these generally come together to form a band). There songs are written over a long period of time more often than not, rather than a rap artist writing down things as he goes, or just taking from real life experiences. So as you can see, writing a rock/punk/metal/classical/blues etc. song is more time consuming, and more thought out than that of a rap/hip hop song. Sure, rap can sound cool, I don't deny that, but as far as song writing ability and time consumtion goes, other music genres win hands down.

Like I said, I don't deny rap sounds cool, there are a few rap songs that I really have nothing against, and it sounds cool in a car with high bass, but you just can't compare to other genres.

For examples of well written songs, I suggest:

The Mars Volta - Inertiatic ESP
Karnivool - Themata
Lamb of God - Ashes of the Wake [instrumental]
System of a Down - Question!
The Used - Pieces Mended
Liquid Tension Experiment - Acid Rain (that's an example of extremely talented musicians working together to create a fantastic piece of music.

I din't care if you don't like how they sing, or the way they play, those are well written songs that utilize the expertise of different musicians to write and produce good quallity music.

[Dullahan]

Are you telling me that Yobbish culture that graffitis the memory of some dead rapper on subway has nothing to do with Urban culture, i think not.

Anyway, Illidan, it's nice to see you're as argumentative as ever.

And Agatio, you'd change your mind about it sounding "cool" if you had some f**kwit who thinks it's fun to play urban sh*te until the early hours of the morning as loud as he can, have you tried to sleep with this playing, you can't.

[Illidan]

Can I ask a question to any of you?

Have you ever tried writing rap lyrics? I mean, real rap lyrics that actually have a rhythm to it? Have you ever listened to a rap song that didn't actually have any beat to it but the rhythm of the flow? Obviously not, because you only seem to look into the shallowness of the genre.

And rap lyrics from the ages are as well thought out as any "rock/metal/punk" that exists, and in my opinion even more so. You've never taken the time to study rap, and I can see your opinion is very one sided because well most of you are rock fans so I don't expect you to understand. It takes a LOT of time to produce well synchronized and well constructed lyrics.

And the "repetitiveness" you speak of is just the constructed style hip hop and urban music has invested in, because it suits the type of beats hip hop creates. However I've heard a lot of rock/metal songs which are just as repetitive, and even more so sometimes. My opinion, much more boring sounding than a lot of hip hop beats I've listened to. But that's just my preference. A lot of you haven't listened to a variety, only mainstream it seems, so you can't really judge since your knowledge of hip hop is very insignificant.

Just a little something else for your information: there are some artists and producers who use real instruments to produce hip hop music. But it doesn't matter, it takes skill to compose a well synchronized beat no matter if they use "real" instruments or not. Most of today's music is pretty much altered anyways. I don't find purely produced instrumental beats around as much anymore.

My opinion, music went straight to hell when everyone started categorizing it.

Quote

Are you telling me that Yobbish culture that graffitis the memory of some dead rapper on subway has nothing to do with Urban culture, i think not.

Never said that, I was talking about ethnical culture in relation to negative egotistical attitudes that hip hop seems to partially involved with.

Quote

And Agatio, you'd change your mind about it sounding "cool" if you had some f**kwit who thinks it's fun to play urban sh*te until the early hours of the morning as loud as he can, have you tried to sleep with this playing, you can't.

So you're going to persecute the genre because of a few punk kids who like to annoy others with rediculously high pumping music? Mmmhmmm good going.

And thanks Dulluhan, nice to see you too. :agitated:

[Elliott]

I've read rap lyrics, trust me, even for me who isn't a lyric writer, they aren't that well though out. I can not see any gangsta rap song being compared so say "The Mars Volta - Inertiatic ESP" or "Old Man's Child - Felonies of the Christian Art".

Those are songs that have had the input of more than 1 artist, sometimes 3 or 4 people have worked together to write the drums/guitars/bass/keys for these songs. And though at times it may sound basic, I'd love to see any individual compose a song that has the same level of musical genius. For example, Galder from Old Man's Child writes the all of the guitars and drums, and in "Ill Natured Spiritual Invasion", he improvised the lyrics for all 6 songs.

And saying "we are rock fans so we don't have an understanding" is a little off. I am not just a rock/metal fan. Sure, thatis the genre of music I listen to by preference, but I can really get into blues, classical, orchestral, even pop, and like I said, rap at times. I'm just saying, that as far as the song writing side of things goes, rap doesn't compare with other genres.

[Illidan]

Well that's your opinion but...

"Gangsta rap songs" are not what rap is all about. That's only a negative part of rap which everyone should not generalize upon that basis.

No you misunderstand what I say. I said because most of you are rock fans, and don't generally like rap music, you would tend to listen to more rock/metal songs then you would rap, which probably means you wouldn't have a wide knowledge of the rap genre music like other's may. So you wouldn't understand it as well.

You should just really try listening to some rap songs which are not so popular or commercialized today, or some really old stuff. =)

I mean the Beastie Boys are pretty good and Immortal Technique. But it's ok, I won't hold you to that. There is a lot of untalented hip hop songs out there, and the rap genre is kind of being taken over by that at the moment. So it's hard to find the good stuff. But there is, no doubt. <__< There's a lot of it. Some which have been rarely discovered. XD Just have to try and search for it if you were interested.

[Elliott]

And what do you have to say to the song writing side, which was my main argument? And yes, I agree with gansta rap being a negative side, and that is taking over the rap market (i.e Snoop, 50 cent etc. always on the radio).

[Illidan]

A lot of rap songs construct lyrics with not only just rhyming words, but the whole structure of the sentence has to fit the second bounce of the line, and the third and the fourth. It depends on the structure.

I'm really fond of those lyrics which have deeper meanings throughout the whole song, and yet also have fitting flow like the same emotional sense lyrics of the song, which makes it seem like the flow sense is greatly linked and bonded with the lyrics. n__n It's amazing sometimes how true artists can construct song/rap lyrics like that.

The timing sense of the lyrics is very important, and has to be properly syncronized. It's not only about creating the flow and the rhythm throughout your lyrics, it's about making sense of it too. If you can do both with positive feeling then you're what is considered a true rap artist in my eyes.

Some of it is just fun, but positive at the same time, but fun is ok isn't it? ^^?

Yes it's all about bonding your lyrics with the sense of the flow.

I could explain into it deeper if you want? But it'll probably take a heck of a lot of text to do that. :agitated:

[Elliott]

So basically to write a rap song, you need to write lyrics that match the beat. So, someone could just as easily write the lyrics, and then write a beat that matches. it seems that it's just a 2 part process: lyrics & beat. Whereas a rock song would consist of at least 3: guitar, drums, and bass (though this usually follows the drums/guitar closely).

And then for some bands (i.e Dark Tranquillity), you have the vocalist, 2 guitarists, bassist, drummer, and keyboard player (later albums). Now, this would be a 6 part process to write each song, and their albums contain upwards of 15 songs. That's 15 times they would have to work together to write each tab/drumline and lyric that works together, flows together, and at the same time is no repetitive (their music is not repetitive. Also consider their songs are generally over 4 minutes in length (in a lot of cases 5 or 6). And to make this more impressive, Dark Tranquillity has produced 8 studio albums, and done shows all around the world.

Now I would really, really like you to compare a rap artist to Dark Tranquillity, I really would.

note: I could have use a lot of bands as an example, but Dark Tranquillity seemed very suiting.

[Illidan]

I find a lot of rock/metal songs to be repetitive. ^^;

Not the instrumental beat Agatio, the flow sense of the lyrics (the rhythm whithin it). -__-...

I mean I don't really like rock, because there are a lot of things I dislike about the genre. But I know that it's only preference. I'm not going to go around and say LOLOLO U LYK PEEPOL HU JUZT HIT PICES OV METAL N SHOUT LYK IDIOTZ. HOW BORIN GG U SUK.

I know rock/metal has talent in it. I personally find it boring, and it doesn't get me into any sort of musical mood.

I've never heard of Dark Tranquillity. Like I said, I'm not a rock fan, so my knowledge is limited. I don't want to compare which is better, because like I said it's not my style.

[Elliott]

It's good that we've established that. Rap is your style, rock/metal etc. is mine. And despite what I said in a previous argument (lol) there is nothing wrong with that. I give rap artists respect, just not as much as I give to rock/metal artists. And Dark Tranquillity are a melodic death metal band hailing from Sweden. They are awesome.

[Illidan]

As long as you give them the respect that any true artist deserves then I'm happy with that. :agitated:

[Jeremiah]

I voted for D because i think rappes use too many bad words.

[Dullahan]

Illidan, on Jul 7 2005, 05:56 AM, said:

Can I ask a question to any of you?

you didn't really give me much of a choice there did you?

Illidan, on Jul 7 2005, 05:56 AM, said:

Have you ever tried writing rap lyrics? I mean, real rap lyrics that actually have a rhythm to it? Have you ever listened to a rap song that didn't actually have any beat to it but the rhythm of the flow? Obviously not, because you only seem to look into the shallowness of the genre.

Yes because i often write lyrics to the styles of music i hate, as we speak i am composing a fusion of 50 Cent and mozart.

Illidan, on Jul 7 2005, 05:56 AM, said:

So you're going to persecute the genre because of a few punk kids who like to annoy others with rediculously high pumping music? Mmmhmmm good going.

If they were punk kids i'd beat the sh*t out of them, but no they're only f**king forty! In my estate and the two next two i can think of one person who won't ridicule me for being a rocker. One of the reasons i hate urban so much is the generation of ****y b*****ds it produces, i point you failed to defend Illidan, which is unusual for you.

[Golden Djinn13]

Jeremiah, on Jul 7 2005, 04:30 PM, said:

I voted for D because i think rappes use too many bad words.

No other way to put it than...Everyone uses bad words, wether you like it or not, and I know someones gonna say that rap music is to blame for this, so i'll answer that by saying other types of music use curses to.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Golden Djinn13, on Jul 8 2005, 08:16 PM, said:

No other way to put it than...Everyone uses bad words, wether you like it or not, and I know someones gonna say that rap music is to blame for this, so i'll answer that by saying other types of music use curses to.

Yeah I agree. Not only rappers use swear words. Just go outside and go to a place where with many people. You dont have to wait long and someone swears. And most rappers rap about what they feel, like Eminem does. That they swear makes the lyrics better and you understand him more.

[Illidan]

Dullahan, on Jul 8 2005, 08:37 PM, said:

Yes because i often write lyrics to the styles of music i hate, as we speak i am composing a fusion of 50 Cent and mozart.

Really, and you think they match up to every rap lyrical ballad in the history of the genre? Unless you supply proof of this, then your argument is insignificant.

Quote

If they were punk kids i'd beat the sh*t out of them, but no they're only f**king forty!  In my estate and the two next two i can think of one person who won't ridicule me for being a rocker.

Oh really? So you're telling me you're going to judge a genre because or an insignificant amount of people who disturb you while you're sleeping? The matter of fact is you shouldn't persecute the genre all because there are some morons around who happen to like it. That in itself has nothing to do with the point of the genre.

Quote

One of the reasons i hate urban so much is the generation of ****y b*****ds it produces, i point you failed to defend Illidan, which is unusual for you.

I didn't fail to defend anything. I don't have to go around and keep pointing out every little thing just to keep re-stating my point of unnecessarily generalization. It's you who seem to fail to look deeper within the genre, and not just its shallowness. And I've stated this many times before you SHOULDN'T generalize anything all because of what's shown through the media. All you've been looking at is the commercial side as I said.

There are ****y rock/metal, pop songs too you know? Or have you ignored that fact because of your intense hatred of rap music. You treat it like every rap aspect and style is evil. All because YOU don't like it doesn't mean everyone else can't. But I guess you're too closed minded to realize that? Seems so to me.

[Someone Else]

I change my take on Rap and Hip Hop from D to C. Now that I'm older I've come to respect music more... er... better. (And I know that I just spoke improper English :lol:)

I've come to like some songs in both Rap and Hip Hop pretty well. Over and Over really is a silly song... but it's kinda fun to listen to in the background (you can change the lyrics from "Cuz it's all in my head" to "Cuz I'm bald on my head" :agitated:). Rap achieves a certain level that I can't get from rock, same thing with Hip Hop... but I'm still a hard rock/alt rock/soft rock kinda guy.

I'm much more flexible with music than I was before; throw a song of any genre at me (as long as it's not Ray Gae) and there's a 70% chance I'll enjoy it. :angry:

[Dullahan]

Illidan, on Jul 8 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

Really, and you think they match up to every rap lyrical ballad in the history of the genre? Unless you supply proof of this, then your argument is insignificant.

Are you really that stupid? I was being sarcastic, i hate rap and classical there fore i used sarcasm to reply to your post.

Illidan, on Jul 8 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

Oh really? So you're telling me you're going to judge a genre because or an insignificant amount of people who disturb you while you're sleeping? The matter of fact is you shouldn't persecute the genre all because there are some morons around who happen to like it. That in itself has nothing to do with the point of the genre.

I hate the genre anyway and those t****rs aren't exactly giving it brownie points. If you hate something, you're not going to suddenly like if it's used in a manner to annoy you.

Illidan, on Jul 8 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

I didn't fail to defend anything. I don't have to go around and keep pointing out every little thing just to keep re-stating my point of unnecessarily generalization. It's you who seem to fail to look deeper within the genre, and not just its shallowness. And I've stated this many times before you SHOULDN'T generalize anything all because of what's shown through the media. All you've been looking at is the commercial side as I said.

Now this is the Illidan we like to see, who blatently contradicts himself with his own posts, if you didn't defend why didn't you sy anything about it? You've even admitted you repeated yourself. I don't know what Media you get info from but my media doesn't give one about urban.

Illidan, on Jul 8 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

There are ****y rock/metal, pop songs too you know? Or have you ignored that fact because of your intense hatred of rap music. You treat it like every rap aspect and style is evil. All because YOU don't like it doesn't mean everyone else can't. But I guess you're too closed minded to realize that? Seems so to me.

****y songs hey? I said ****y b*****ds.

Song-A song is a relatively short musical composition for the human voice (possibly accompanied by other musical instruments), which features words (lyrics). It is typically for a solo singer, though may also be a duet, trio, or for more voices (works with more than one voice to a part, however, are considered choral). The words of songs are typically of a poetic, rhyming nature, although they may be religious verses or free prose. Songs can be broadly divided into many different forms, depending on

B*****d-asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous.

It helps when you read the post you are critising properly.

[Illidan]

Dullahan, on Jul 9 2005, 09:35 PM, said:

Are you really that stupid?  I was being sarcastic, i hate rap and classical there fore i used sarcasm to reply to your post

Oh so your previous statement about rap was pointless before? Ok GG.

Quote

I hate the genre anyway and those t****rs aren't exactly giving it brownie points.  If you hate something, you're not going to suddenly like if it's used in a manner to annoy you.

I don't CARE if you hate the genre. Fact is, you shouldn't be insulting it all because your preferences of it might be different. Oh and by the way, I see a lot of ****y "b*****d" metal heads who generally piss me off too, but I wouldn't critizise the genre for it. But of course you just want to give any excuse to insult rap music.

Quote

Now this is the Illidan we like to see, who blatently contradicts himself with his own posts, if you didn't defend why didn't you sy anything about it?  You've even admitted you repeated yourself.

I DID defend it, many times. I just didn't use your point to present my argument because I didn't see the need to pinpoint every bad aspect of rap all because one person doesn't know how to judge things from its non-shallow side. I could go through all the bad aspects of rock/metal, pop, but I won't because I know ALL genres have their good and bad points. It just happens that the rap genre is being currently taken over by its commercial side at the moment. But it doesn't mean ALL of it is horrid pieces of trash.

Actually you can't talk, you seem pretty repetitive too. :agitated:

Quote

I don't know what Media you get info from but my media doesn't give one about urban.

Oh so where do you hear all this "urban trash" from then hmmm? Just from people on the streets? LOL

Quote

****y songs hey? I said ****y b*****ds.

Song-A song is a relatively short musical composition for the human voice (possibly accompanied by other musical instruments), which features words (lyrics). It is typically for a solo singer, though may also be a duet, trio, or for more voices (works with more than one voice to a part, however, are considered choral). The words of songs are typically of a poetic, rhyming nature, although they may be religious verses or free prose. Songs can be broadly divided into many different forms, depending on

B*****d-asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous.

****y songs can only be produced by ****y b*****ds. =P There is a lot of ****yness within music in general. Point is, rap isn't the only genre that induces this sort of stuff. You seem to miss that because of your constant hatred towards it.

Quote

It helps when you read the post you are critising properly.

It does doesn't it?

[gsninja]

Well, I actually agree with you on that, Illidan. Rap/Hip-hop singers aren't the only fools in the music world. However, it doesn't change the fact that I absolutely hate rap/hip-hop. The music sucks, the lyrics are fourth-rate, etc. I also hate it when people try to make me like it...it make me want to kick them right in the face (j/k).

Anywho, that's my view...I meant to choose (E), but accidentally chose (D).

[Golden Djinn13]

First of all, I think that wishing someone death for singing something you dont like, is wrong. Just because you dont like this type of music doesnt mean you should insult it. I dont like alot of music that I hear, but I dont go around insulting the people that sing it. Like I said before, it's wrong.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Wishing them dead is not what the dude really means.
He probarly means that you just plain hate it. Well I dont see the wrong things in rapping... I like it.

[Jeremiah]

If you wish them dead, you wish my dad dead!

[lifeform287]

Whatever works for you.....
I hate rappers....Over used everywhere...or at least as far as I've seen. So I voted for teh bottom one.

[Andross]

572 kittens died over the course of that argument.
THINK OF THE KITTENS PEOPLE!

I'm indifferent to the genre, though I can't really credit it with being musically genius - or much of anything mainstream these days. Everything is relying HEAVILY on the chorus, and while chorus songs can be nice and all, it is getting ridiculously repetitive. When you close up a song by repeating your chorus ten times . . . In the end, indifference is always t3h pwn :rolleyes:

[Izar]

Ok guys, stop all the arguing. If you like the genre, fine, you like it. If you don't, don't keep insulting it.

I persoanlly don't like rap, it just isn't my type of music. The only Rap-realted music I like Is KJ-52, John Reuben, etc.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Jeremiah, on Jul 9 2005, 11:30 PM, said:

If you wish them dead, you wish my dad dead!

Yeah you told me your dad raps. I think thats pretty cool.
So I just dont understand why you hate it, you bad words... But does your father say those to?

[Dullahan]

Illidan, on Jul 9 2005, 08:34 AM, said:

I don't CARE if you hate the genre. Fact is, you shouldn't be insulting it all because your preferences of it might be different. Oh and by the way, I see a lot of ****y "b*****d" metal heads who generally piss me off too, but I wouldn't critizise the genre for it. But of course you just want to give any excuse to insult rap music.

Ah, Illidan, the stalwart of all things urban, who simply can't admit defeat.

Illidan, on Jul 9 2005, 08:34 AM, said:

I DID defend it, many times. I just didn't use your point to present my argument because I didn't see the need to pinpoint every bad aspect of rap all because one person doesn't know how to judge things from its non-shallow side. I could go through all the bad aspects of rock/metal, pop, but I won't because I know ALL genres have their good and bad points. It just happens that the rap genre is being currently taken over by its commercial side at the moment. But it doesn't mean ALL of it is horrid pieces of trash.

De Ja Vu? I swear you said this in your last post

Illidan, on Jul 9 2005, 08:34 AM, said:

Actually you can't talk, you seem pretty repetitive too. :rolleyes:
.

Your right i must be a mute, i can't talk, my voice box stops working while i post on this topic

Illidan, on Jul 9 2005, 08:34 AM, said:

Oh so where do you hear all this "urban trash" from then hmmm? Just from people on the streets? LOL.

I don't class music channels as the media, i class them as music channnels, i class the media as the newspapers and the news, which to my knowledge are not performed in an urban style.

Illidan, on Jul 9 2005, 08:34 AM, said:

****y songs can only be produced by ****y b*****ds. =P There is a lot of ****yness within music in general. Point is, rap isn't the only genre that induces this sort of stuff. You seem to miss that because of your constant hatred towards it.
It does doesn't it?

you rfatal flaw Illidan is that you refuse to accept something is right if it clashes with your pov, see i accept your point here, there are ****y b******ds in other genres but atleast the ****y music they produce if listenable to.

[Illidan]

Dullahan, on Jul 11 2005, 10:14 PM, said:

Ah, Illidan, the stalwart of all things urban, who simply can't admit defeat.

Funny you seem to be having the same problem? Stop being a hypocrite. And I'm not trying to "defeat" you. I'm trying to prove a point, something which you obviously can't get in that head of yours.

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De Ja Vu?  I swear you said this in your last post

Really? Because nearly all your statements seem to be doing the same thing as well. I only restate myself in different ways when other's don't seem to get what I'm saying, that also seem to repeat themselves also.

All I seem to hear from you is "I h8 urban trash bakas it haz no talnt".

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Your right i must be a mute, i can't talk, my voice box stops working while i post on this topic

Ok smarty, you can't "type" then. It's funny what people reduce to when they have no argument to present.

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I don't class music channels as the media, i class them as music channnels, i class the media as the newspapers and the news, which to my knowledge are not performed in an urban style.

So you only base your opinions on what you see on TV? And where do you think music channels get most of their music? From what’s most controversial and popular today? *slaps self in shock* O NOES! If I were going to base my opinion of rock/metal from “music channels”, trust me when I say that I wouldn’t have a very good opinion of it.

As I said, TV only shows the most commercial side of urban and generally any sort of music. That's not what ALL urban is all about. [/repeats]

You're statements are merely idealogical statements. They're not true all because you say it is. If it's such a fact that urban "sucks" Dullahan, go and show me factual evidence of this and then I'll try and see your point.

Urban is a considered and categorized as a STYLE of music, whether you like it or not.

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you rfatal flaw Illidan is that you refuse to accept something is right if it clashes with your pov, see i accept your point here, there are ****y b******ds in other genres but atleast the ****y music they produce if listenable to.

To you maybe, but maybe to other people they find it worth listening to rather than some other "****y" music. And you seem to have missed all the points I was agreeing with Agatio with earlier, about all the negativeness that urban can produce. Also I never denied that their wasn't any ****yness and egotistical behaviour included in urban music. I realize that there are. I'm just trying explain that not all urban is like that. That's all.

You haven't listened to all the different styles of music urban has produced, therefore you have no knowledge that it ALL sucks. Don't judge things you have next to no knowledge about. It just not your STYLE Dulluhan, I understand that.

The reason why I have a problem with your posting is because you're clearly insulting something I and other people like and spend our efforts and time on. Yes I know I can get quite argumentitive at times but that's because I'm passionate about the things I love. And I happen to love urban music. So if you're going to insult me by saying I have no taste in music and that what I listen to is trash, then I'm sure as hell going to fight back... As civilly as possible of course. >_>;

[Dullahan]

I'm getting bored of this, we are just repeating ourselves over and over.

Illidan, on Jul 8 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

The matter of fact is you shouldn't persecute the genre all because there are some morons around who happen to like it.

The term persecute suggests i go around gathering up people who like urban and then gassing or shooting, which as attractive as it may seem i do not. I have not directly insulted your genre, i have merely stated my opinion and gave a few cheapshots, if you are too weak minded to be offended by that then boo-hoo

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

Funny you seem to be having the same problem? Stop being a hypocrite. And I'm not trying to "defeat" you. I'm trying to prove a point, something which you obviously can't get in that head of yours.

I have strong strong resolve, i'm not going to change my mind because of a few posts, so what if i'm a hypocrite? sue me.

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

Really? Because nearly all your statements seem to be doing the same thing as well. I only restate myself in different ways when other's don't seem to get what I'm saying, that also seem to repeat themselves also.

just because you're wording it slightly different doesn't mean you're not repeating yourself

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

All I seem to hear from you is "I h8 urban trash bakas it haz no talnt".
quote]

i rather rip out my voicebox and hang myself than speak like that, it really helps literacy, try using it at a job interview.

quote=Illidan,Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM]
So you only base your opinions on what you see on TV? And where do you think music channels get most of their music? From what’s most controversial and popular today? *slaps self in shock* O NOES! If I were going to base my opinion of rock/metal from “music channels”, trust me when I say that I wouldn’t have a very good opinion of it.

Unless some one has invented a newspaper/television then no, i clearly said my defintion of the media is the NEWSPAPERS which are not televisions amazingly enough.

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

As I said, TV only shows the most commercial side of urban and generally any sort of music. That's not what ALL urban is all about. [/repeats]

Yor right it's about dealing drugs, slagging off any non-urban people and shooting your fellow urbaners because they insulted you in their "ryhmes"

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

You're statements are merely idealogical statements. They're not true all because you say it is. If it's such a fact that urban "sucks" Dullahan, go and show me factual evidence of this and then I'll try and see your point.

You do the same for your pov and we'll have an understanding.

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

Urban is a considered and categorized as a STYLE of music, whether you like it or not.

i'm not saying i don't accept it as a genre, i just think it is the worst genre.

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

To you maybe, but maybe to other people they find it worth listening to rather than some other "****y" music. And you seem to have missed all the points I was agreeing with Agatio with earlier, about all the negativeness that urban can produce. Also I never denied that their wasn't any ****yness and egotistical behaviour included in urban music. I realize that there are. I'm just trying explain that not all urban is like that. That's all.

you honestly think i'm going to look throughpages of posts to see how your opinion has changed? Fair enough we have agreed on something, all music has some degree of ****iness in it.

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

You haven't listened to all the different styles of music urban has produced, therefore you have no knowledge that it ALL sucks. Don't judge things you have next to no knowledge about. It just not your STYLE Dulluhan, I understand that.

Rap, Hip Hop, R'n'B are not enough, that seems to be the majority, and i think i can form an opinion based on the majority.

Illidan, on Jul 13 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

The reason why I have a problem with your posting is because you're clearly insulting something I and other people like and spend our efforts and time on. Yes I know I can get quite argumentitive at times but that's because I'm passionate about the things I love. And I happen to love urban music. So if you're going to insult me by saying I have no taste in music and that what I listen to is trash, then I'm sure as hell going to fight back... As civilly as possible of course. >_>;

i do not recall saying you have no taste in music, but i must applaud you for not taking cheapshots at my genre, that's usually the easiest way to get at someone, not that it would bother me, it's shows you have self discipline, i've made many cheapshots at urban to get points across, well done. (no sarcasm intended)

[Illidan]

Dullahan, on Jul 16 2005, 09:44 PM, said:

I'm getting bored of this, we are just repeating ourselves over and over.
The term persecute suggests i go around gathering up people who like urban and then gassing or shooting, which as attractive as it may seem i do not.  I have not directly insulted your genre, i have merely stated my opinion and gave a few cheapshots, if you are too weak minded to be offended by that then boo-hoo

Not exactly:


per·se·cute Audio pronunciation of "persecute" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pûrs-kyt)
tr.v. per·se·cut·ed, per·se·cut·ing, per·se·cutes

1. To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.
2. To annoy persistently; bother.


"Urban music trash" is not a direct insult? Describe to me what is then?

So you're saying you never tried stating it as a fact that Urban music sucks? From what I gather, that really doesn't seem to be the case.

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I have strong strong resolve, i'm not going to change my mind because of a few posts, so what if i'm a hypocrite? sue me.

Fair enough, just don't complain if I choose to do the same thing also. =)

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just because you're wording it slightly different doesn't mean you're not repeating yourself

Did I ever deny that I was repeating myself? Nope. I clearly implied I was doing it because you were also doing the same thing. ^^

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Unless some one has invented a newspaper/television then no, i clearly said my defintion of the media is the NEWSPAPERS which are not televisions amazingly enough.

I wasn't talking about what you considered as the media. I was asking if you based your knowledge on what you see on TV this time. And I can tell you, at least half of the programs you see on television are influenced by the media.

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Yor right it's about  dealing drugs, slagging off any non-urban people and shooting your fellow urbaners because they insulted you in their "ryhmes"

Uh uh uh, you're generalizing again.

Ok Dullahan if every "Urban" song has that sort of influence in it...:

Can't Take My Eyes Off You - Lauryn Hill
Waterfalls - TLC
Keep ya head up - Tupac
A song for Assata - Common (actually a true story)

Tell me if all of these songs have all those "bad" influences you spoke about.

Like I said. ALL URBAN MUSIC ISN'T LIKE THAT.

But I don't deny, a lot of that sort is contained within Urban music, and actually a lot of other genres too.

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You do the same for your pov and we'll have an understanding.

I never tried to prove that urban music was the best genre out there did I? I merely said it was a preference. You on the other hand are trying to prove that it all "sucks".

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i'm not saying i don't accept it as a genre, i just think it is the worst genre.

Finally an opinionated responce. :lol: I don't have a problem with that.

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you honestly think i'm going to look throughpages of posts to see how your opinion has changed?  Fair enough we have agreed on something, all music has some degree of ****iness in it.

Oh? I never said my opinions of it have changed. ^^ I was just agreeing with Agatio when the subject arose.

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Rap, Hip Hop, R'n'B are not enough, that seems to be the majority, and i think i can form an opinion based on the majority.

The majority of hip hop which is represented today are mostly commercial. If you're going to judge Urban because of artists like 50 cent and Snoop Dogg all because they're what's considered "popular" today then don't bother judging hip hop at all. That's like me judging Rock/Metal because of artists like Avril Lavigne, Good Charlotte, Korn and Marylin Manson. But you don't see me doing that do you?

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i do not recall saying you have no taste in music, but i must applaud you for not taking cheapshots at my genre, that's usually the easiest way to get at someone, not that it would bother me, it's shows you have self discipline, i've made many cheapshots at urban to get points across, well done.  (no sarcasm intended)

I once recall you and Agatio mentioning that you had no respect for anyone who listens to Urban music. That's pretty much implying the same thing.

Heh, I'm not that sort of person Dulluhan. I respect every genre and music style and I appreciate music in general. Even if it's not to my favor of choice.

No worries though, I don't think any less of you because of our little arguments. I'm sure you mean well. ^^;

[Mysterious Adept]

i'd have to say i HATE THEM, i don't hate them as much as some people but to me there is just no point to do rap,sure i'll listen to them but i don't like what i'm hearing

[Dullahan]

This arguement is becoming quite enjoyment now the aggressive edge has been removed.

Illidan, on Jul 16 2005, 06:38 AM, said:

Not exactly:

"Urban music trash" is not a direct insult? Describe to me what is then?

i don't recall saying that i don't use "trash", too american, i'd be more likely to say urban music s**t

Illidan, on Jul 16 2005, 06:38 AM, said:

I wasn't talking about what you considered as the media. I was asking if you based your knowledge on what you see on TV this time. And I can tell you, at least half of the programs you see on television are influenced by the media.
Uh uh uh, you're generalizing again.

i've been doing some research on urban music, apparently 31% of teens believe that shock rock and gangsta rap are responsible for violence in schools. Therefore it would seem shock rock is as bad as gangsta rap and imo it is both in influence and quality.look here for more results

Illidan, on Jul 16 2005, 06:38 AM, said:

Ok Dullahan if every "Urban" song has that sort of influence in it...:

Can't Take My Eyes Off You - Lauryn Hill
Waterfalls - TLC
Keep ya head up - Tupac
A song for Assata - Common (actually a true story)

Tell me if all of these songs have all those "bad" influences you spoke about.

maybe if you give some links to these i may listen to them, although i've already heard Waterfalls and whilst it was not offensive it was still as bad as other urban music.

Illidan, on Jul 16 2005, 06:38 AM, said:

But I don't deny, a lot of that sort is contained within Urban music, and actually a lot of other genres too.
I never tried to prove that urban music was the best genre out there did I? I merely said it was a preference.  You on the other hand are trying to prove that it all "sucks".

Illidan, on Jul 16 2005, 06:38 AM, said:

Fine, urban to me  is not a preference, i'm not trying to say it sucks i'm trying to get you to reflect on yopur own genre.
The majority of hip hop which is represented today are mostly commercial. If you're going to judge Urban because of artists like 50 cent and Snoop Dogg all because they're what's considered "popular" today then don't bother judging hip hop at all. That's like me judging Rock/Metal because of artists like Avril Lavigne, Good Charlotte, Korn and Marylin Manson. But you don't see me doing that do you?

Rock has much more scope to it than urban with those artists, you sucessfully identified, punk pop, punk rock, metal and shock rock, other branches include, punk, emo, death metal, heavy metal, black metal, heavy metal, goth, classic and nu metal, these are the ones i can think of. I will admit my lack of knowledge limits the amount of branches of urban i am aware of, it seems to me that there is only rap, hip hop and R'n'B.

Illidan, on Jul 16 2005, 06:38 AM, said:

I once recall you and Agatio mentioning that you had no respect for anyone who listens to Urban music. That's pretty much implying the same thing.

i respect you and you like urban music, although i can't see you wearing LaCoste tracksuits with gold car egistrationplate on a chain around your neck, dealing drugs "popping caps" at your fellow "homies".

Illidan, on Jul 16 2005, 06:38 AM, said:

Heh, I'm not that sort of person Dulluhan. I respect every genre and music style and I appreciate music in general. Even if it's not to my favor of choice.

That's impressive i'm much to prejudice to be able to do that.

[Elliott]

I'm over the prejudice to be honest. If people want to listen ot urban music, then that's fine by me, but just don't go around saying that it's better than metal, rock, punk, experimental, classical, blues or even country, because I can quite easily prove to you that in terms of song writing, it's not.

The level of song writing ability, like I've said before, is much higher in genres such as metal and experimental, as they require more time, effort, synchronisation, beat, rythm, instrumentation etc. than that of urban and rap.

It's totally wrong to judge a genre by its listeners. If rap was keeping me awake at night, I would be just as annoyed as if metal was keeping me awake. Judging a genre on music on it's listeners, or even its artists is just stupid. I despise Marylin Manson, though some of his tracks are kickass (Beautiful People for one). On the other side of the spectrum, I think Snoop Dogg's music is utter bollix, but I think he's a great guy, I loved him in Starsky and Hutch.

And in regards to urban music being "****y", I have listened to a few songs ouside of urban that are a little ****y, but overall I find more ****y and arrogant themed songs to be found in rap, and to a lesser extent, urban music. If you can find enough non urban/rap songs that are ****y that outweigh the number of ****y and arrogant rap songs, I'm willing to give them a listen.

[Dullahan]

i really don'y want to look through much urban s**t. Urban is the easy way out in the music industry, you don't to be able to play an instrument or sing very well, you just a catchy song with some rap in it, Three of a Kind and Babycake show this.

[Illidan]

Agatio, on Jul 18 2005, 08:19 PM, said:

I'm over the prejudice to be honest. If people want to listen ot urban music, then that's fine by me, but just don't go around saying that it's better than metal, rock, punk, experimental, classical, blues or even country, because I can quite easily prove to you that in terms of song writing, it's not.

Ok prove it then. I'll judge and see if what you're saying is an opinionated statement, or a fact. Because you know Agatio, it really depends on the song. Not so much the genre.

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The level of song writing ability, like I've said before, is much higher in genres such as metal and experimental, as they require more time, effort, synchronisation, beat, rythm, instrumentation etc. than that of urban and rap.

Depends on your prefence and style actually. Urban/rap requires a heck of a lot of rythm, synchronisation, beat and effort to properly work out as a well established song you know? Believe me I've looked into it. The only reason why rock is looked at as a more "talent" based genre is because it's much more broader than Urban.

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It's totally wrong to judge a genre by its listeners. If rap was keeping me awake at night, I would be just as annoyed as if metal was keeping me awake. Judging a genre on music on it's listeners, or even its artists is just stupid. I despise Marylin Manson, though some of his tracks are kickass (Beautiful People for one). On the other side of the spectrum, I think Snoop Dogg's music is utter bollix, but I think he's a great guy, I loved him in Starsky and Hutch.

^^ I agree.

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And in regards to urban music being "****y", I have listened to a few songs ouside of urban that are a little ****y, but overall I find more ****y and arrogant themed songs to be found in rap, and to a lesser extent, urban music. If you can find enough non urban/rap songs that are ****y that outweigh the number of ****y and arrogant rap songs, I'm willing to give them a listen.

Yeh there are a lot of ****y rap songs. As long as you realize that not all rap songs are ****y, then I can agree.

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i don't recall saying that i don't use "trash", too american, i'd be more likely to say urban music s**t

You do realize that's worse, right? XD

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i've been doing some research on urban music, apparently 31% of teens believe that shock rock and gangsta rap are responsible for violence in schools. Therefore it would seem shock rock is as bad as gangsta rap and imo it is both in influence and quality.look here for more results

Well there's no exact proof of that. It's pretty much just a belief. But interesting I suppose. o.o

And gangsta rap is a pretty aggressive sub genre in my opinion I have to admit. There are only a few gangsta rappers I like.

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maybe if you give some links to these i may listen to them, although i've already heard Waterfalls and whilst it was not offensive it was still as bad as other urban music.

Exactly what do you find "bad" about it? I'm betting you just didn't enjoy the type of song. Not so much that it was "bad". More like it's not your style. It doesn't matter, it was just to prove that it didn't have those influences you spoke about.

Don't you use a shareware program where you can download music from?

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Rock has much more scope to it than urban with those artists, you sucessfully identified, punk pop, punk rock, metal and shock rock, other branches include, punk, emo, death metal, heavy metal, black metal, heavy metal, goth, classic and nu metal, these are the ones i can think of. I will admit my lack of knowledge limits the amount of branches of urban i am aware of, it seems to me that there is only rap, hip hop and R'n'B.

Yep, and so does Urban. Even though it's much less broader than rock/metal, of course.

Hip hop - Gospel, Gangsta, Spiritual...
RnB - Soul, Clubbin', Funk.

That usually doesn't stop people from generalizing a whole genre from first impressions though. ^^; Especially if they extremely limited knowledge.

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i respect you and you like urban music, although i can't see you wearing LaCoste tracksuits with gold car egistrationplate on a chain around your neck, dealing drugs "popping caps" at your fellow "homies".

lol Dullahan, I don't try to be something I'm not. And I'm not even a fan of "bling" and "drug dealing" like you're making me out to be. *rolls* And even if I was, I don't go around trying to copy it all because I may think it's "cool".

[Elliott]

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Ok prove it then. I'll judge and see if what you're saying is an opinionated statement, or a fact. Because you know Agatio, it really depends on the song. Not so much the genre.

Agatio, on Jul 7 2005, 10:36 PM, said:

So basically to write a rap song, you need to write lyrics that match the beat. So, someone could just as easily write the lyrics, and then write a beat that matches. it seems that it's just a 2 part process: lyrics & beat. Whereas a rock song would consist of at least 3: guitar, drums, and bass (though this usually follows the drums/guitar closely).

And then for some bands (i.e Dark Tranquillity), you have the vocalist, 2 guitarists, bassist, drummer, and keyboard player (later albums). Now, this would be a 6 part process to write each song, and their albums contain upwards of 15 songs. That's 15 times they would have to work together to write each tab/drumline and lyric that works together, flows together, and at the same time is no repetitive (their music is not repetitive. Also consider their songs are generally over 4 minutes in length (in a lot of cases 5 or 6). And to make this more impressive, Dark Tranquillity has produced 8 studio albums, and done shows all around the world.

Now I would really, really like you to compare a rap artist to Dark Tranquillity, I really would. 

note: I could have use a lot of bands as an example, but Dark Tranquillity seemed very suiting.

That's what I said a page back, and it basically says that 1 band has accomplished more in their career than a hell of a lot of rap artists combined. It's also saying that to write a metal song, you need a lot more people, time, skill, and effort than it takes to write a rap song.

[Illidan]

Ah but if you remembered from that while back, I also said I wasn't talking about the beat of the instrumental. I was talking about the rhythm of the lyrics. You don't how much time and effort it takes to construct lyrics with a bond to its subtle rythm. Also skill, effort and perfect syncronization within the song is also required to create a well established rap song. Like I said, it really depends on the song opposed to the genre. I found a lot of rap songs which surpassed many rock/metal songs too. Whatever you may think, it takes at least some form of talent to produce any sort of song. It's just the song or talent required varies for each genre. It's not really the case of more or less, it's usually just a differentiation.

[Elliott]

Reading that made me smile. How can you compare the ability to mould lyrics to a beat, against the ability to write lines for 2 guitars, a bass, drum tabs, keyboards as well as the lyrical content and vocal work of a singer? It's just not a comparison worth making Illidan. And that seems to be the only argument that you're presenting.

[Andross]

Illidan, on Jul 18 2005, 05:10 AM, said:

Ah but if you remembered from that while back, I also said I wasn't talking about the beat of the instrumental. I was talking about the rhythm of the lyrics. You don't how much time and effort it takes to construct lyrics with a bond to its subtle rythm. Also skill, effort and perfect syncronization within the song is also required to create a well established rap song. Like I said, it really depends on the song opposed to the genre. I found a lot of rap songs which surpassed many rock/metal songs too. Whatever you may think, it takes at least some form of talent to produce any sort of song. It's just the song or talent required varies for each genre. It's not really the case of more or less, it's usually just a differentiation.

That's a pretty lame reason. I'm sorry, but it's just not true that matching the rhythm is different than writing lyrics for a rock song. Rock songs require the lyrics to be in rhythm too - ANY song requires such. I agree with Agatio - it's much tougher to write and perform a rock song than to write and perform a rap/hip-hop song.

NOW STOP KILLING THE KITTENS ALREADY! :smile:

[Illidan]

How is that a lame reason? It's valid, and it's true. Like I said, it's not so much the genre which determines the talent invested within it. It's the song itself.

Rap in itself is in a league of its own. You may not believe so, but it is difficult to construct well written lyrics. Freestyling is pretty difficult too. Surely it takes a lot of talent to make up lyrics that fit on the spot.

You just don't realize it because you don't spend time searching through it.

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Rock songs require the lyrics to be in rhythm too - ANY song requires such.

I don't find it to be the focus point of a rock song though. Urban I find it more concentrated in that field. Rock just seems to lack in vocals compared to urban in my opinion. *shrug*

But that's your opinion, I'm not going to argue with it.

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Reading that made me smile. How can you compare the ability to mould lyrics to a beat, against the ability to write lines for 2 guitars, a bass, drum tabs, keyboards as well as the lyrical content and vocal work of a singer?

Compare? They're both DIFFERENT aspects, in which both take talent and skill. I'm not comparing. I'm just trying to explain the type of skill that's required to create real rap lyrics. And I don't really notice the vocals in rock to be a major point. It seems to be pretty much lacking in that area. But of course that's just my opinion.

DJs are pretty skillful as well. I mean the really good ones of course. Takes a lot of time/effort to learn mixing. :smile:

If we're going to compare every single aspect in each genre we're just going to waste our time.

Let's just say they're both just different. The only reason why I may believe rock is a greater genre is because it's broader than Urban. So there I admit, it's a greater genre.

[Elliott]

Illidan, on Jul 19 2005, 02:48 PM, said:

it's not so much the genre which determines the talent invested within it. It's the song itself.

That's a good point, and sorry, but the only one you are making. No one can say all rap songs suck, or all rock songs suck, that's just being blind to the genre. What my argument is, that on a whole, rock (and metal and punk) seems to require more time, effort, and skill in the songwriting area, as well as performance (guitar, bass, drums, keys, even brass in some cases).

Illidan, on Jul 19 2005, 02:48 PM, said:

Rap in itself is in a league of its own. You may not believe so, but it is difficult to construct well written lyrics. Freestyling is pretty difficult too. Surely it takes a lot of talent to make up lyrics that fit on the spot.

I've heard those guys (I saw a special on SBS once), and the things they say always seem to be arrogant about how good they can rap, and how bad the other guy is. There's really nothing to it in my opinion, and most likely many others. Galder from Old Man's Child improvised the lyrical and vocal work on an entire album (all 8 tracks from "Ill Natured Spiritual Invasion"). And they are bloody good, I'd love to see a rap artist sit down and write lyrics that were more intelligent than the ones he did on the spot.

Illidan, on Jul 19 2005, 02:48 PM, said:

I don't find it to be the focus point of a rock song though. Urban I find it more concentrated in that field. Rock just seems to lack in vocals compared to urban in my opinion. *shrug*

That's a load of crap (sorry, I couldn't find another way to put it). Rap artists generally talk to the beat. Rock artists sing (in many different ways might I add), growl, scream, and in some cases rap for a novelty.

Illidan, on Jul 19 2005, 02:48 PM, said:

So there I admit, it's a greater genre.

About time too.

[Andross]

Illidan, on Jul 18 2005, 09:48 PM, said:

How is that a lame reason? It's valid, and it's true. Like I said, it's not so much the genre which determines the talent invested within it. It's the song itself.

Rap in itself is in a league of its own. You may not believe so, but it is difficult to construct well written lyrics. Freestyling is pretty difficult too. Surely it takes a lot of talent to make up lyrics that fit on the spot.

You just don't realize it because you don't spend time searching through it.
I don't find it to be the focus point of a rock song though. Urban I find it more concentrated in that field. Rock just seems to lack in vocals compared to urban in my opinion. *shrug*

But that's your opinion, I'm not going to argue with it.
Compare? They're both DIFFERENT aspects, in which both take talent and skill. I'm not comparing. I'm just trying to explain the type of skill that's required to create real rap lyrics. And I don't really notice the vocals in rock to be a major point. It seems to be pretty much lacking in that area. But of course that's just my opinion.

DJs are pretty skillful as well. I mean the really good ones of course. Takes a lot of time/effort to learn mixing. :smile:

If we're going to compare every single aspect in each genre we're just going to waste our time.

Let's just say they're both just different. The only reason why I may believe rock is a greater genre is because it's broader than Urban. So there I admit, it's a greater genre.

We weren't talking about freestyling - that's different. And Agatio, those are usually rap battles.

Second: No. Just no. Freddie Mercury > 50 Cent, and that's the truth. No rapper has good vocals, and you can't deny that. They don't actually sing the song, they rhyme to a certain tempo and pattern, but that isn't vocalization.

[Elliott]

Some rap artists have better vocals than other's Andross, in that they sound better than others. It's pretty obvious to anyone listening to rap, even if they aren't a big fan. And, I know what freestyling is.

[Adam]

Yo, Illidan...in response to your conflicts with Dullahan, I'm pretty sure I made the title of this topic "What's Your Take on Rap and Hip-Hop?"

[Dullahan]

Illidan, on Jul 18 2005, 05:32 AM, said:

Exactly what do you find "bad" about it? I'm betting you just didn't enjoy the type of song. Not so much that it was "bad". More like it's not your style. It doesn't matter, it was just to prove that it didn't have those influences you spoke about.

Firstly, i can barely remeber this song, as i tend to forget things i hate, i remember crappy urban vocals singing crap to a crappy urban beat.

Illidan, on Jul 18 2005, 05:32 AM, said:

Don't you use a shareware program where you can download music from?.

No, and if i did i wouldn't, i buy CDs, i'm a more traditional person.

Illidan, on Jul 18 2005, 05:32 AM, said:

Yep, and so does Urban. Even though it's much less broader than rock/metal, of course.

Hip hop - Gospel, Gangsta, Spiritual...
RnB - Soul, Clubbin', Funk.

I was expecting this, so i have prepared appropriate critisms, Gospel is just wrong in any genre, Gangsta is offensive and influences yob culture, i don't even know what spiritual is, Soul died 30 years a go and should have stayed dead, Club music shows possibly the worst lyrics known to man and Funk is okay as Urban music goes, probably the only style i'd be able to stand for 5 minutes

Illidan, on Jul 18 2005, 05:32 AM, said:

lol Dullahan, I don't try to be something I'm not. And I'm not even a fan of "bling" and "drug dealing" like you're making me out to be. *rolls* And even if I was, I don't go around trying to copy it all because I may think it's "cool".

I'm not makingyou out like that, for a start the fact your posting on this forum means you don't fit the stereotypical urban person.

Agatio, on Jul 18 2005, 06:42 AM, said:

Reading that made me smile. How can you compare the ability to mould lyrics to a beat, against the ability to write lines for 2 guitars, a bass, drum tabs, keyboards as well as the lyrical content and vocal work of a singer? It's just not a comparison worth making Illidan. And that seems to be the only argument that you're presenting.

Ah, Agatio, you forget how difficult these instruments are to learn in the first place, freestyling or whatever may be difficult but i doubt it's as difficult as guitar.

[Elliott]

Not just guitar, but good guitar. Any half assed guitar player can string together a few chords that sound good. But lets see a half assed guitar player write something like "Liquid Tension Experiment - Acid Rain", "Old Man's Child - In Defiance of Existence", or "In Flames - Embody the Invisible". They are all songs with very well written, and thought out guitar lines. And that isn't even half of rock music.

There are still the drums, (Karnivool - Cote, is simple and technical at the same time), bass (listen to any Mudvayne song for good bass work), and finally, the vocals. Some good vocal work examples are Stratovarius - Destiny (epic song), or something by Dark Tranquillity of the new album (Character) if you want to hear some fantastic metal vocal work.

So basically what I'm saying, and what I have been saying all along, is that rock (and metal, punk, experimental etc. etc.) takes more songwriting ability than rap, urban, hip hop etc. It also takes more time to learn the instruments, and more talent to play them, and to play them well.

This is where rap ultimately failes as a genre. It is the easy way out, talking to a beat.

[Dullahan]

i said that yet Illidan did not pick up on it, this is rare. If you want a good, no not good, godly guitarist, Slash from Guns'n'Roses/Velvet Revolver is the brilliant, just listen to the solo on November Rain.

[Illidan]

Ok let's get one thing straight. "Urban" is not only rap music. It's RNB and Hip hop. I should have been more specific when I wanted to say that RNB vocals are incomparable to rock/metal. RNB singers have talented voices. Compared to it, rock/metal vocals doesn't stand against it in the slightest in my opinion.

And Soul didn't die out Dullahan, it's still pretty much alive in kicking in the RNB industry.

Quote

Freddie Mercury > 50 Cent

Don't even bother if that's who you're going to use as an example.

Quote

That's a good point, and sorry, but the only one you are making. No one can say all rap songs suck, or all rock songs suck, that's just being blind to the genre. What my argument is, that on a whole, rock (and metal and punk) seems to require more time, effort, and skill in the songwriting area, as well as performance (guitar, bass, drums, keys, even brass in some cases).

That's because the genre is broader, and that's the only reason might I add.

"Seems" So you're assuming? Rock/Metal has been around for ages, of course there would be more talented rock/metal songs out there because it's such a huge genre. If you're judging by song characteristics in general, I think each song requires a different amount of effort and time to produce, so me and you the same cannot judge.

Quote

This is where rap ultimately failes as a genre. It is the easy way out, talking to a beat.

Yah ok if it's as easy as you make it sound then why don't you go and try to produce some well written lyrics and rap over a beat? Try and prove to us all that rap is an "easy way out". Don't knock it unless you're ready to prove to us it's so darn easy that it deserves to be thrown in the trash. Music is there to put us in a mood we are satisfied with. If there are different ways to producing it then so be it. There are different styles for a reason. DIFFERENT not better. No one takes the "easy way out" to create music. They do it because they're passionate about their music interest, so they can try and make music that they and we can be satisfied with. "Easy way out"? That's the lamest reason I've heard you give. If they happen to love rapping, then so be it. It's not a matter of taking the easy way out, geez.

It doesn't fail as a genre, you just fail to realize that rap is an interest, and something that requires time to develop. Rapping is a skill, I don't care if you don't believe it but it does take effort to develop. "Less effort, more effort" WHO CARES? It still does take a considerable amount effort and time to create a song of both kinds.

And Dullahan, I don't have to refute and take note of every single thing you guys say. Stop acting like I have to or something. Jeez.

[Elliott]

Quote

Compared to it, rock/metal vocals doesn't stand against it in the slightest in my opinion.

That's actually pretty amusing. Metal vocalists, in general, have a much wider vocal range than that of R&B singers. Growl deep, scream high, sing clean. Many can do it all. R&B only ever does clean vocals, and they seem to follow the same style as well, I find this is due to the generic back beat they use (like I've said, snare/hi-hat/kick combination.

Take Corey Taylor from Slipknot (not the greatest band, but he's a fantastic vocalist). Have a listen to "The Nameless", "Left Behind" and "Vermillion". Great clean vocal work in all three of these songs. Then have a listen to "People = Sh*t", "Disasterpiece" and "Eeyore". Fantastic metal (growl) vocals, all brilliant. Finally, have a listen to "Spit it Out" where he does a bit of rap. This one singer, who is actually in 2 bands, can do 3 styles of vocal work very well, I would love to see any R&B singer belt out a scream half as good, or produce a flawless grown like those heard in any 'Opeth' song.

The vocal work in R&B can't be compared to metal, as it is far too limited. I'm in now way saying R&B singers have bad voices, on the contrary they have some amazing clean vocal abilities, but that is all, so you can't say metal doesn't stand a chance against it. If you want more examples of metal bands or songs with great clean vocal work as well as metal, then by all means ask me.

As a genre, metal beats R&B in terms of vocal ability, hands down.

And I see you still haven't acknowledged the song writing arguments I have made twice in this topic yet (concerning Dark Tranquillity up against rap).

Oh, and the rest of your post was easily disregarded as it was opinionated drivel aimed mainly towards Dullahan's irrational arguments. Let's talk factual here for once people.

[Illidan]

It's almost impossible to talk factual because almost every statement here is an opinion.

Quote

That's actually pretty amusing. Metal vocalists, in general, have a much wider vocal range than that of R&B singers. Growl deep, scream high, sing clean. Many can do it all. R&B only ever does clean vocals, and they seem to follow the same style as well, I find this is due to the generic back beat they use (like I've said, snare/hi-hat/kick combination.

Rotfl. And there my friend proves you know nothing about RNB singers and singing in general. You're telling me that RNB singers don't have any vocal range?

*laughs*

That's just funny. Singers generally have a wide range when it comes to soul vocal singing. They can do bass, high pitch, low pitch and many other singing tones with clean alone. Soul RNB singers have an incredible ability to sing in a range of voices. They're just different to rock because they don't "growl" and "scream" while they sing. To have a soul voice is a TALENT, and has much more feel to it then that of a metal/rock voice.

In my opinion, metal/rock singers have a horrible sense of singing compared to RNB singers. Watch them try and and produce talented clean singing soul voices, I doubt most of them can do it. Growling and screaming is not I consider talented singing. Pfft yeh man the vocal work to rock/metal takes much more talent then that of talented artists like Boys II Men, Whitney Houston, Diana Ross, Mariah Carrey and Luther Vandross.

I totally have to agree with you. [/sarcasm]

Quote

And I see you still haven't acknowledged the song writing arguments I have made twice in this topic yet (concerning Dark Tranquillity up against rap).

Again that would only be a matter of opinion. You can't hope to prove whether it is a fact that the song writing ability of one artist is better than the other. That's only a matter of preference and style. So it wouldn't work Agatio sorry. Besides, they're two very different styles of writing to compare. I know what I would prefer, and I know what you rock/metal fans would prefer. An argument like this has no factual basis to present.

You will never be able to prove if your genre is the better genre to everyone who thinks differently. So really all these arguments we've been having are pointless. Rock/metal is a style, with many talents. Sometimes more or less, it doesn't matter. It's exactly the same with other genres, they just don't happen to be as big as a genre as Rock/Metal. If someone thinks that Urban is a better genre that Rock/Metal, then that's they're opinion. It's not WRONG, it's different.

[Elliott]

I see what you are saying now. Everyone is different, everyone has opinions. That's all well and good. But I have yet to see a rap artist produce 8 studio albums with 6 different instruments including vocals, all having around 12 songs on them, then there is the lyrical content which is ever evolving and always intelligent. When I do see that, I will give the genre a little more respect.

And to say metal/rock singers have a horrible sense of singing compared to R&B is just so very flawed. You would not belive how hard it is to do vocal work like Corey Taylor, Galder, the dude from Opeth (who can do amazing clean vocals as well as awesome metal vocals), or any metal band for that matter. They are all so unique, and good at what they do, but I have never seen an R&B singer do anything like it. There are so many more good clean vocal singers, than there are metal vocalists, that's because it is such a hard thing to do, and requires a lot of talent and practive. Good singing voices come naturally, metal voices come with time and practice.

And, I never said R&B singers are bad. They are exceptionally good at what they do, but that is all they do, clean vocals.

[Illidan]

Nope not flawed, it's my preference/opinion and what I consider to be "talent". =)

And I've never seen a rock/metal singer be able to sing the way a talented RNB singer can express his voice. To me, it doesn't compare sorry. I just don't find it as appealing. Sure it's unique and talented and I realize that but it just doesn't do it for me. It probably is hard, and I'm not saying all rock/metal voices sound bad. But most of them I've heard and the style just seems to lack in it so much. Rock/Metal doesn't seem to focus on vocals very much anyways. Well to me.

RNB singers are all the same? Yah ok. Funny how that seems to be the case with me and rock/metal neh? I haven't seen nearly as much talented clean soul singers as much as Metal/Rock singers at all. Unless you can prove so I'd say they're at a balance.

This is what you seem to miss Agatio, you have invested your time to search through the genre for what you consider to be "worthy" artists. I've done the same with my genre, and I know what's different about it. You don't seem to notice that other's have a different ideology of what "talent" is.

Quote

Good singing voices come naturally, metal voices come with time and practice.

A good singing voice also develops with time and practise, as much as rock/metal voices. It takes a gifted voice to be able to develop it and become a skilled and toned voice.

Quote

And, I never said R&B singers are bad. They are exceptionally good at what they do, but that is all they do, clean vocals.

Sorry, but I don't think many of them consider "screaming" and "growling" to be part of singing. It wouldn't fit into the style of music anyways. Unless you want it to turn it into lil' John music?

Like I said, stop comparing. They're too different styles of music that are almost impossible to compare. They use different methods of producing music and that's a fact. Not to your favor? Good, keep it that way and stop saying it's all "better" than each other. Because no music type is better than the other. As I seem to keep repeating.

EDIT: Ok this is starting to get really pointless. We're not getting anywhere with this really. Sorry for all these pointless arguments.

Ok you guys think rock's better and I think Urban is better. Touche. =) Now let's stop the arguing ok? o.o Sorry if I seemed disrespectful anywhere during this... saga. >_>

[pHantOm]

Rap = Complete Crap

thats all there is to it, although there is one guy named I believe Kanye west or something. Although he raps (I hate the style aswell not just the lyrics) he does have some meaning behind them. Like the blood diamonds song.

[Dullahan]

Illidan and Agatio disrupted my ryhtm so now i have an excuse to stop arguing, i'll finish with Urban=BAD, Rock=GOOD.

[Elliott]

Illidan: Your previous posts made it unclear what you were saying was in your opinion, that last post cleared it up though. And yes, it was pretty feckin pointless when you think about, but I think I got my point across loud and clear.

[Izar]

I think some rappers do have talent. Geez, a whole load of people think they do, and like rap and urban and hip-hop, so I'm guessing they are talented.

As for vocals - Having a wider vocal range doesn't mean anything when it comes to a better voice. It only means something if that person likes it. I like bands with lower ranges than others.

So, saying rap is crap isn't saying that much. Just because one set of pepes like it, and you think it's a tatal waste of sound, really won't help the argument.

[Andross]

Illidan, on Jul 21 2005, 04:55 AM, said:

Don't even bother if that's who you're going to use as an example.

Maybe you should say you're talking about more than rap before I pull out that comparison :D

Again, no rapper has good vocals - slight changes in pitch isn't the same as singing a range of notes (whether the range is low or high). There's a difference between true vocalization and rapping. Yes they have vocals, but they don't compare to what the general connontations of vocals means.

[Izar]

Ok people, cool down jsut a little. :D

True. But if they like it, they like it. Alot of people don't like the changing vocal patterns and such.

My opinion on rap: I just don't like it. I'm not interested.

[Eugine]

You see rappers can spontaneously just come up with some good lyrics out of the blue. They call that freestyling.

Rappers NATURALLY have good writing talents, take tupac for instance, he could write and say anything out of the blue and would blow your head off (not literally).

[Izar]

Rock artists can too, contemporary as well. For Instance, the Australian christian band called "newsboys" wrote a song in just a few minutes, and it is one of their most popular songs.

[Kwesi]

I love hiphop.

Add more construction, explain why you love hip hop, and make your posts longer please. - Izar

[Elliott]

Eugine, on Jul 27 2005, 08:22 AM, said:

You see rappers can spontaneously just come up with some good lyrics out of the blue. They call that freestyling.

Rappers NATURALLY have good writing talents, take tupac for instance, he could write and say anything out of the blue and would blow your head off (not literally).

That's entirely a matter of your opinion. I've yet to see any rapper write lyrics half as intelligent as Galder (Old Man's Child), Opeth, The Mars Volta, or even Dark Tranquillity. Show me the lyrics written by a rapper than can compare in intelligent content to any of those bands, and I will give you some credit.

[Adam]

Even though I gotta agree with everyone who hates rappin', here's my opinion sumarized in this niftly little piece of C programming language analogy:

while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}

[Eugine]

I don't get it Adam.

Yeah well, it goes down to opinion like Agatio pointed out really, if you hate the genre you'll hate the songs.

[Elliott]

$adam = "total_nerd";

My main gripe, like I've said the whole way through, is that rappers tend to generally be less intelligible people. I've seen interviews with them, and the majority can hardly string 2 words together.

[Jeremiah]

I don't hate rap.
I hate how most of them use it.
It's always like: ''I shot her dead.'' or whatever they say.

[Eugine]

Yes, I don't really support the lyrics some rappers use. Kanye West is one of those rappers which use their talent and write proper lyrics people can relate to. *Gives him thumbs up*

[Echo_djinn]

Rappers use offense language and edgy subjects because rap based the "gangsta" life. Like how Rock/Heavy Metal usually supports the rebel. Hip hop is a mix of rap with some beats people can dance to. Destiny Child is classified as Hip hop but they can't be put together with the other rappers.

[Eothain]

ok, i don't wanna revive the whole vocal-ability argument, but i just thought of something...Illidan brought up the "expression" thing...and i'm guessing he likes soul vocalists so much, because he must like the more than usual vibrato in the voice(no, i'm not talking about THAT which you're thinking is missing an "r" at the end, it's just an italian term regarding music). I'm also guessing it's the vibrato(for dummies, pronounced "vee-brah-toh") what he calls "expression"...with that said, take some old school metal/heavy bands...Iron Maiden, for instance. Or Deep Purple. VERY clean vocals. And they had a nice vibrato to their voices, and it fit their songs perfectly. Now, would that not be considered good? I mean, it's not exactly like soul, the virato is used differently, but it's still more "expressive"...so, would someone like Illidan consider that "good" vocals?

[Eugine]

Offtopic: Eothian, I think you should make your posts more presentable. ^ Was hard to read for me. You should type like if you're in English class. (especially paragraphs)

Ontopic: :P I don't understand some of your posts but some heavy metal artists have some good songs, I listen to some not all, but hip-hop sounds much more groovy for me, it's just much better than heavy metal. Of course its just opinion.

[Elliott]

Echo_djinn, on Sep 1 2005, 04:50 AM, said:

Like how Rock/Heavy Metal usually supports the rebel.

Not usually, very rarely actually.

(real) Punk usually supports the rebel, as well as a bit of rock. Metal generally sing about real life issues; pain, love, hate, and being the outcast. Also, they can sing about non real issues, such as fantasy (generally power/progressive metal), as well as political (Six Feet Under and Lamb of God are examples).

It's wrong to class a genre as speaking from one persons perspective. it's ok for subgenres, i.e saying that Death Metal is usually about killing/hate etc. as it almost always is. And that gangsta rap speak from the gansta/stree point of view, as it usually does.

[Eothain]

Eugine, on Sep 1 2005, 09:46 PM, said:

Offtopic: Eothian, I think you should make your posts more presentable. ^ Was hard to read for me. You should type like if you're in English class. (especially paragraphs)

Ontopic: ^_^ I don't understand some of your posts but some heavy metal artists have some good songs, I listen to some not all, but hip-hop sounds much more groovy for me, it's just much better than heavy metal. Of course its just opinion.

i know, i just cant' satisfy you guys...when i type a normal post either nobody understands it, or if they do, they take it too seriously and then i get warned. Then I try to explain and nobody understands. Screw this, I'll just post normally and then wants can skip my posts

p/s: "hard to read", no, "hard to follow", DEFINITELY. Cause I put the explanations in parenthesis in the middle of a sentence and that's where you get lost.

[Laharl]

i hate urban with a passion, they're just talentless, offensive wastes of oxygen.

[Crimson Barrel Knight]

I think I've said my peace a while back, but like I said; I dislike all kinds of rap and hip-hop, no matter where the hell I am or what I'm doing. If it starts to annoy me, I ask politely for it to be turned off. If that fails, I just put on my headphones and listen to my own music.

[Laharl]

ask politely? i give them an ultimatum, turn it off or i will, or in the case me being at a friends or something i'll just leave or find something else to do.

Daddy Yankee-Gasoline=WORST SONG EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

[Izar]

The main reason I hate rap I because they always say "Omg, white people are racist" "They can't say nigga but we can" "Anyone who's not black or latino betta watch out, cuz we aw gunna shoot you foo."

It's also true that anything hispanic is not a race, it's an ethinic group, and whites are closer to mexicans than blacks. Latinos are a mixture of white and native american (sometimes Native American is classified as an asian group).

The way black people in the rap industrustry its self just annoys me. They talk as if the cops are after them, as if they were doing drugs all the time, and getting shot. Drug tests prove half of the drug stuff they say ain't even true. Maybe heroin, which they say "Don't use main" is in their system. :D Also, i HATE how they always talk about slavery. "Oh man, we went through slavery man, blacks went through cruelty man." But guess what, so did every other race on the planet, and I think that the blacks of the american slave times would have puked if they saw rap today.

AND YES, I HAVE HAVE LISTENED TO RAP BEFORE, I used to listen to it, and I didn't even like it.

"Guess what foo, I got shot. It means I'm cooler than you because I can't move out da way when they mad at me foo."

[Elliott]

Izar, that is the single best post you have ever made, be proud.

[Sea of Time]

I enjoy the music, but it's just part of a spectrum of music I like. Therefore, I'm indifferent as to whether it's good or bad. I'll listen to anything rap if it has a good beat and isn't sung by every human being alive (Yeah).

[Someone Else]

I agree, too, with what Izar said. Especially the part where Mexicans and African Americans claim White people to be "oh my god racist!!" when half the time they're being the most racist, when it all comes down to it. But, it really works for them. =/ People will take their side on matters such as that because it's "politically incorrect" to the White person's side on racist matters.

Anyway, I still am indifferent to Rap and Hip Hop. As long as it's not "hard" rap talking about stupid stuff at least.

By the way, "You remind me of my Jee-eep". Lawl, priceless.

[Echo_djinn]

Wind Dude, on Sep 15 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

I agree, too, with what Izar said. Especially the part where Mexicans and African Americans claim White people to be "oh my god racist!!" when half the time they're being the most racist, when it all comes down to it. But, it really works for them. =/ People will take their side on matters such as that because it's "politically incorrect" to the White person's side on racist matters.

Anyway, I still am indifferent to Rap and Hip Hop. As long as it's not "hard" rap talking about stupid stuff at least.

By the way, "You remind me of my Jee-eep". Lawl, priceless.

Damn right nig*** :). We......african americans yell and ***** to each other and claim all other races are racist b******s. Pure BULL. Every race has these kinds of people. Racism in not only strong between black white people but with all other races as well. This rarely ever happens where I am. If any man said something that offended another race he would be a jackass regardless of what color he is.

Back on topic. Rap isn't bad. The lyrics aren't terrible but it does tend to get repetitive. Almost every rap song has to do with gangs/violence/sex.

[Someone Else]

Hah, of course I don't mean ALL people ED. You're not racist.

Well, it's pretty bad in the U.S., perhaps it ain't so bad in Canada.

[Sea of Time]

It seems like it's not here, but it's here even if it's under the seams more than in the U.S. Our African American population is much less in Canada as well, so that factors in as well.

[Blade Lord Lyn]

I don't really hold a grudge against most types of music. . . but I grew up with rap and hip-hop. I like it a lot. But, it's just as annoying (to me) when people hate on people who listen to rock the way they might not like rap. The fact that there's (E) I wish every rapper in the world would die a painful death ASAP on your choice list is pretty stupid. That's just being ignorant.

It's perfectly fine to dislike the genre, but that's an insult to anyone who listens to urban music. I'm sure anyone who listened to rock wouldn't like to see a poll with the choice (E) I wish every rocker in ther world would die a painful deat ASAP (even though there are people like that, which is a shame).

Summing it up: Hate it or love it, right?

[Sea of Time]

Blade Lord Lyn, on Sep 18 2005, 08:21 PM, said:

It's perfectly fine to dislike the genre, but that's an insult to anyone who listens to urban music. I'm sure anyone who listened to rock wouldn't like to see a poll with the choice (E) I wish every rocker in ther world would die a painful deat ASAP (even though there are people like that, which is a shame).

Absolutely. That is pretty insulting to pick that one. I like rap for what it is and for me that's hard to do because of some of the rock influences everywhere these days.

[Illidan]

Yeh I agree. Anyone who has the audacity to refer to himself/herself or anyone else who happen to be apart of the same race, a racist name, shouldn't complain when other people call them that as well. No one has the right to be racist, no matter what the case. I don't usually listen to urban music that has an obscene amount of name calling just to prove that they're "cool" and "special" because they have a "special name" that they and only they can call each other. It's rediculous. The only rapper I like who really uses that word is Tupac, because he has a lot of decent songs, or songs that make sense. Instead of him whinning about it he usually has the "yes I'm black or *insert racist name here* and proud, got a problem with it?" attitude, which is not as bad. =)

[Elliott]

I've just been watching the MTV video Music Awards. If African American rappers/R&B artists could learn to speak a single sentence of proper English, then I would perhaps give them some respect. But if people like Missy Elliott go up there and say things like "I love all y'all", and expect to get taken seriously, then they need to step back and look at themselves. I'm by no means insulting the fans in any way, I know some great people who listen to and love rap music, but I almost felt dumber from watching 45 minutes of MTV.

Now compare that to a black metal vocalist. They speak proper English, and conduct themselves in a manner that would be worthy of the Queen of England. It's about intelligence people, that, and songwriting ability. If rap artists would sit down and learn a thing about the 2, then their music career may last more than a couple of years.

[Kwesi]

rap is tasty.

[Nick Presta]

To those people who are using rap ("Yo, yo, yo, I'm going to bust a cap in yo ass, ferrealz), aren't listening to rap or hip hop; you're listening to Hip Pop. Real Hip Hop and Rap include groups and people who don't even get a spot on MTV, BET, or MuchMusic. Real Hip Hop has meaning and is infinitely better tha n Hip Pop.

[Golden Djinn13]

nick1presta, on Sep 24 2005, 11:14 AM, said:

To those people who are using rap ("Yo, yo, yo, I'm going to bust a cap in yo ass, ferrealz), aren't listening to rap or hip hop; you're listening to Hip Pop. Real Hip Hop and Rap include groups and people who don't even get a spot on MTV, BET, or MuchMusic. Real Hip Hop has meaning and is infinitely better tha n Hip Pop.

Amen, I couldn't think of a better way to explain it.

[Nickelback]

Agatio, on Sep 20 2005, 07:44 PM, said:

I've just been watching the MTV video Music Awards. If African American rappers/R&B artists could learn to speak a single sentence of proper English, then I would perhaps give them some respect. But if people like Missy Elliott go up there and say things like "I love all y'all", and expect to get taken seriously, then they need to step back and look at themselves. I'm by no means insulting the fans in any way, I know some great people who listen to and love rap music, but I almost felt dumber from watching 45 minutes of MTV.

Now compare that to a black metal vocalist. They speak proper English, and conduct themselves in a manner that would be worthy of the Queen of England. It's about intelligence people, that, and songwriting ability. If rap artists would sit down and learn a thing about the 2, then their music career may last more than a couple of years.

He's right you know. You sit down and watch interviews with Enimem or whatever the spelling is, or any other rapper, compared to when they had interviews with say Linkin Park, Inxs or anyother music genre, eg Michael Buble, and rappers etc just can't compare. Their music style isn't even singing, they just talk or like Missy Elliot, i don't know what to call that.

Rap and anything close to it is the only music style i hate, the only other thing would be anything really really heavy where they just scream instead of sing.

[Nick Presta]

Quote

Hah, of course I don't mean ALL people ED. You're not racist.

Well, it's pretty bad in the U.S., perhaps it ain't so bad in Canada.

Actually, there is a strong Hip Hop influence in Canada - Toronto for sure. Kardinal, KOS, Jelleestone, Maestro, Rascalz, Choclair are all from Toronto and were (and some still are) huge influences in Hop Hop. KOS, a major contender in Hip Hop, doesn't talk about guns and sex and shit; he has good music with a good message.

[Eugine]

Agatio you're talking 'crap' about those Metal artists. Marilyn Manson, which is metal clearly has no respect for anyone in this world. He is deffinetly not worth the posture of Queen Elizabeth. Same goes for the Osbornes.

Like you told me once, if you only watch MTV to make your decisions on rappers then you're no better than me.

[Elliott]

1. I said Black Metal. Not Marylin Manson, who I agree is a total wanker.
2. I don't judge it by MTV. I'm saying anyone who uses MTV as their source for music has no right to argue here.

When I see more than a few rappers have careers that span more than 10 years, I will give the genre credit.

[Andross]

Agatio, on Sep 24 2005, 08:28 PM, said:

When I see more than a few rappers have careers that span more than 10 years, I will give the genre credit.

Well, I think Jay-Z and Diddy have been around a decade. There's also L.L. Cool J. He's actually been around for 15 years . . . and Public Enemy is still around, but I'm not sure about how long they were successful. Outkast started in '96, but they didn't actually take off until later.

I'm a pop culture freak, just in case you're wondering why the hell I know.

[Elliott]

Fact remains no rapper's career will span more than a decade to 15 years.
I'd also like to see a rapper put out 8 studio albums.

[Nick Presta]

Also, NaS has been around 10 years and has 8 albums (all hitting platinum):

God's Son
The Lost Tapes
Stillmatic
Nastradamus
I Am
It Was Written
Illmatic
Unknown (other songs)