[Mycarayne]

Ive had a little experience in writing gaming programs for the Ti (I know, it's shameful), but I was wondering if there was a PC equivilent?

In all, Im asking if there is a basic program where a 'new guy' like me can learn how to write out program scripts, and then execute them.

Hopefully Id like to learn flash etc, but one step at a time.

[Lind]

As far as I can tell, the easiest programing language for a PC is Perl. It was what was recommended to me to start with. Since you a little experiance with programming in general, it would probably be a breeze for you to pick up and use.

With Flash, you might just want to buy a program or get some shareware/freeware off the internet.

[Tachyon360]

Perl, if memory serves, is just a scripting language. Flash is, well... Flash.

If you want to program, go with either C++ (which can compile C programs as well) or VisualBasic.NET. Both are among the most common and powerful languages in the industry so far. You might also want to try D, a small project designed to create the successor to C++ (though why they don't call it E is beyond me).

I wouldn't recommend Java. It's a programming language that combines the best features of C++ and Scheme. Unfortunately, it's hideously complex when you reach the more advanced features.

Another option is Assembler, the mother of all high-level programming languages. It's a mere step above native machine code. If you intend to be a programmer, it will force you into a strict dicipline of polishing your code until it shines, and being proficient in ASM looks excellent on a resumé. It's so simple, that your code needs to be incredibly complex. Heck, there are even different versions for different platforms and different processors. Only go with it if you have the will and motivation to sharpen your skills to the molecule, metaphorically speaking.

Anyway, before you can do anything at all, you need a complier for any given language.

[Nick Presta]

There is object oriented programming (Such as VB where it's drag and drop basically) and "text programming - what I call it) like C++ where you have a complier and a place to write script (words and values).

You may want to start with Object oriented programming to see how a program works, however, a good place to start is C.

Max will tell you/reccomend some good things for you to learn.

[TobiasMar]

Tachyon360, on Mar 19 2005, 06:32 PM, said:

Perl, if memory serves, is just a scripting language. Flash is, well... Flash.

If you want to program, go with either C++ (which can compile C programs as well) or VisualBasic.NET. Both are among the most common and powerful languages in the industry so far.

Err....well, my Dad does have a huge booklet for VisualBasic.NET (he does alot of programming).

Well, I also do have a computer program that my mom bought that is called Instant.EXE. It can teach how to do PC programming. I don't use it too much, but if I begin using it more often soon, maybe I can show some examples of programming in this very topic. (The problem is that some people use programming language, specificly VisualBasic.NET, to create viruses and such.)

[Max]

Oh wow, talk about misinformation. Sorry people, but you shouldn't post if you don't really know what you are talking about. Let me list some correctiosn and suggestions:

Perl is NOT an easy language, it is one of the most complex and cryptic scripting languages there is. It's not really a programming language anyways, it's in the same class as PHP as a web scripting language.

C/C++ and Java are the current "big-name" programming languages. They are both object oriented, which simply denotes the style of programming. The other style would be "procedural", which means it just runs through commands in order, much like how TI-BASIC works. Nevertheless, almost all languages are or have an aspect of object orientation.

If you want to get started with computer programming, you'd be smart to start off with C or Java if you are serious, or Visual Basic (6 or .NET) if you just want to have fun and make relatively simple things (though VB has the potential to do some really complex things as well).

If you have any more specific questions just post and I'll do my best to answer them.

[Kite]

Umm, yea..
How do you make/view .DLL files? Iv always wondering how they encrypt them.. XD They just show up in some weird ASCII symbols whenever I open them up in Notepad..

[Lind]

Well, I was totally wrong. (And I seriously thought I was giving him something correct and useful.) I have heard that Perl is good for people who just wish to know a little programming (which was why I was interesed in it in the first place). C++ is better, huh? I might have to look into it.

That still doesn't explain Flash. If I can do something besides get a $100 program for it, I'd be willing to start working with it becuase its mostly for creating animation. Max, do you know anything about it?

[Max]

Flash is a special case. It is primarily an animation program, however it also has its own scripting language called Actionscript, which is based on the same standard that Javascript is based on. Actionscript is not really a programming language, but really just a program-specific scripting language. It is pretty powerful as you can see with GSW, and there are tons of tutorials out there. But it is better to learn programming with a real language and then learn Flash afterwards.

[Kubjelle]

I wouldn't recomend C++.. It has pointers that point in every direction..
(Have I heard.. O_o)

I agree with Max, Java would be the best place to start..
Or PHP, php and java is very simular..

But is C OO? I think C is not...?

[Tachyon360]

C++ is pretty simple to get the hang of, and I'd personally recommend jumping right into it if you're stuck between starting with C and C++. A pointer is nothing more than a command to write to or read a specific address in the memory.

Quote

There is object oriented programming (Such as VB where it's drag and drop basically) and "text programming - what I call it) like C++ where you have a complier and a place to write script (words and values).

No offense, but that's the biggest load of crap I've heard. You have action-oriented programming and you have object-oriented programming. The former focuses mostly on the logic that processes data, the latter focuses mostly on organizing the data to be processed. OOP allows you to define a data type, define how it relates to other data types, what kind of data it contains, and specific functions for processing that data. The more complex you go, the more you need good organization.

C is action-oriented, and C++ is an upgraded version of C with robust and powerful object-oriented features. Most versions of BASIC I've seen are almost purely action-oriented, though I believe Microsoft added some decent object-oriented features with VB.

I don't have any experience with VisualBasic, but it sounds to me like you're describing some sort of system that Microsoft came up with to simplify the process of making a VB app. I do know for certain, however, that VB still uses a set of commands that must be inputted into the compiler in one way or another, just like any high-level programming language.



Moving on, Java is also object-oriented, but it's in the grey area between a scripting language and fully-fledged programming language. Rather than compiling to native machine code, it compiles to a generic byte code, which is then interpreted by interpreters compilied in native machine code for their respective platforms. For the sake of security and platform-independence, many features were restricted or omitted. As a result, you'd be hard-pressed to make anything particularly elaborate in Java, and the performance of your apps likely won't match that of languages compiled to native machine code. As I've said before, it's quite complex, with many commands to learn, so I wouldn't recommend it until you'd at least get a feel for C++ or SCHEME.

And Max, I've seen VB do some pretty impressive things. If Microsoft is putting so much behind it, there's gotta be something to it, wouldn't you say? BASIC is simple to grasp, but VB has some real potential. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as different versions of BASIC go, isn't VB the industry leader?

[Max]

Yes, VB is the industry leader in BASIC-derived languages. But Microsoft is really putting all its muscle behind Visual C++ and C#, not Visual Basic. VC++ is becoming the industry standard in C++ development, and C# is gaining a strong foothold as well (C# is Microsoft's intepreted language, similar to Java).

[Mycarayne]

Wow. Just wow.

I understood some of them posts.
To tell the truth, I'd really like to learn Java, as it is quite widely used etc; but as many have said: Its complex.
What program should I get to start off with it? If there is one.

[Kubjelle]

http://java.sun.com/...books/tutorial/
Here is a tut..
You might want to download eclipse to..
http://www.eclipse.o...loads/index.php

Java is a good choice!

[Tachyon360]

Unless you're extremely devoted to self-advancement, I seriously doubt you'll be able to learn Java on your own without first knowing a related language.

I suggest C++. It's what I started with, and it's simple enough. Just get a decent textbook, and not one of those bookstore "Teach yourself C++" books. The book has to be informative, clear, focused, and the style of writing can't be boring. You also need to watch out that you don't get a book outlining the old standard.

How to tell? Look for the first few lines of code the book provides. If it's the old standard, it would look something like this:

#include <iostream.h>

void main ()
{
  cout << "Hello world.";
}

The new ANSI standard would look something like this:

#inculde <iostream>
using namespace std;

void main ()
{
  cout << "Hello world.";
}

Or like this:

#include<iostream>

void main ()
{
  std::cout << "Hello world.";
}

The differences aren't dramatic for simple code, but it does allow for vastly better organization for more complex projects.

[Kubjelle]

Tachyon360 is probably right... Learn PHP first..

BTW: Isn't Assembly awful hard to learn..?

[Tachyon360]

Yes, it is incredibly hard, very tedious, and extremely platform-dependent (though it's OS-independent).

And I never said anything about learning PHP. I said C++. There's a huge difference there.

[Kite]

Tachyon360, on Mar 23 2005, 08:18 AM, said:

Yes, it is incredibly hard, very tedious, and extremely platform-dependent (though it's OS-independent).

And I never said anything about learning PHP. I said C++. There's a huge difference there.

Well, actually, if you look at PHP and C++, there isnt much as a difference other than C++ isnt made for the web while PHP is.

[Max]

Actually Kite, C++ and PHP are vastly different. PHP is a mostly-procedural web scripting language while C++ is a powerful object-oriented computer programming language. While they share some common syntax, that does not mean they are similar. Plus, most of that common syntax is in fact common in almost all modern programming languages.

[Kubjelle]

Tachyon360, on Mar 23 2005, 01:18 PM, said:

Yes, it is incredibly hard, very tedious, and extremely platform-dependent (though it's OS-independent).

And I never said anything about learning PHP. I said C++. There's a huge difference there.

I know.. I said it.. :angry:

Didn't you sugest Assembly in you're first poste?

[Tachyon360]

You said nothing intelligible.

And I only listed Assmbler as a possibility, not a suggestion.

[Kubjelle]

Yes but there is many options, why list Assembly when it is so hard..?
To start learning Assembly as your first program language, should not be an option..

I'm sorry if I didn't make my self clear enough.. :o

[Kite]

Max, on Mar 23 2005, 07:01 PM, said:

Actually Kite, C++ and PHP are vastly different. PHP is a mostly-procedural web scripting language while C++ is a powerful object-oriented computer programming language. While they share some common syntax, that does not mean they are similar. Plus, most of that common syntax is in fact common in almost all modern programming languages.

Ah. XD Well I only thought that becuase my PHP Book (Programming PHP) said that alot of functions were based on some C++ functions... ^^; Too bad I cant understand that darn 'Write Your own C++ Extensions' chapter. XD

[Tachyon360]

Kubjelle, on Mar 25 2005, 06:15 AM, said:

I'm sorry if I didn't make my self clear enough..

That's only one definiton of unintelligible. It also means not making any sense. And seriously, you don't make any sense. It's as if you don't read what people post or know what words mean.

Assembler is always an option as is just about anything else. What, are you suggesting that it should be banned from people that don't know other programming languages? Try telling that to the people that had to use Assembler before any high-level languages came along.

I'll say it again: it's a possibility, not a suggestion. Furthermore, Assembler in and of itself is not difficult. In fact, it's probably the simplest language out there. It's difficult because of its simplicity. The code gets disproportionately more complex with the complexity of the program.

[Kubjelle]

I think you are a little bit harsh to me... :(

What I mean with learning PHP first is that it's simpler then Java, and isn't very diffrent. So to first learn PHP and then make the next step and move on to Java.

So I said that you've probably right, that he shouldn't start with Java, so I suggested he started with PHP.

Then you missunderstood me and said that you never said he should start with PHP. Then I said that I know that you didn't say it, I said it.

Assembly is an option but it should not be an option to one that wants to learn how to program.

So I don't understand why you mentioned Assembly in your post. There is so many options, Ruby, Pascal, Phyton and many more. It's okey that Assembly is a option, I've never dissagreed with that. But there is so many options.. :D

Have I made myself clear enough?(No harsh voice here)

[Max]

Alright people, no need to argue.

For those who don't follow what is going on, Assembly (which has heretofore been semi-incorrectly referred to as Assembler) is the name given to the language which is just above machine code (1's and 0's) and is extremely difficult for the uninitiated. If Assembly is something you might be interested in, go buy one of Knuth's classic computer science algorithm books.

Again, PHP is a web based scripting language, not a programming language. It is a bad idea to start with PHP because it will engrain many bad programming practices. You may have seen C++ mentioned with PHP because PHP is written in C++, and thus uses many of its functions. However, they are very different in terms of structure and tasks they are good for.

Finally, like has been previously stated, your best bet is to start with Java or C++ (or C, which is best IMO, but people think is too hard). These two are the two most common languages these days, and so you can find the most help if you have problems or trouble.

[Tachyon360]

Sorry Kubjelle, I was just in a bad mood when I posted that. No hard feelings. Anyway, I posted that little blurb on Assembler for no particular reason. It just came to mind.

And Max, I've heard it called both ways quite frequently, so I don't see how Assembler is "semi-incorrect." Seems to me like it's more a matter of personal preference than anything else.

[Kubjelle]

Tachyon360: It's forgotten.. :)
But I think Assembler is the name of the program who turns the assembly code to hex. I don't know..

Max: Before Assembly they didn't write in 1's and 0's, they wrote in hex.

[l3lueMage]

I recommend, C or C++ you can use a compiler called Dev C++
The C++ compiler though doesnt let u see the output unless you have a system pause thingy at the end...
Anyways ya C is good and pretty easy:

#include <stdio.h>

int main()
{
printf("Hello World\n");
return 0;
}

simple as that ^^

Edit: I will upload a program I did in C++ so you can see some of its power, its not done, just play through it if you want, it has secrets, and unlockables, but you probably wont play it cause it is kind of boring >> it is a poor attempt at a text-based RPG.

[Nick Presta]

Quote

BTW: Isn't Assembly awful hard to learn..?

Yes, but it lets you do anything the CPU can do. No real limit. You have to keep track of memory storage though (not that you don't ever have to with anything else).

Here is a "program" for C++ that I learned:

int count = 0;
              Record[] r  = new Record[10];
              while (!in.eof)
              {
                  Record rec = readRecord(in) // helper method
                  if (count >= r.length)
                  {
                      Record[] newArray = new Record[2*r.length];
                      for (int i=0; i<count; i++)
                           newArray[i] = r[i];
                       r = newArray;
                   }
                   r[count] = rec;
                   count++;

I read in records until the array is full, then when it IS full, it creates a temp. array twice the size of the current one, copy over all the data from the current array and moves all my pointers to it so my temp. array takes the place of the original.

[l3lueMage]

hehe pretty good nick, but you can actually avoid temps, see once you learn Linklist you can have an infinite size array, or stuff...I can also post the program I did for a class with that also, it also lets u save your data, and it loads back up when you re-open it!

[Nick Presta]

Quote

but you can actually avoid temps, see once you learn Linklist you can have an infinite size array, or stuff

Thanks, but I didn't want to there. I originally wanted this for a mailbox where regular users can hold 10 messages but the admin can hold an infinity. But I didn't want to make a new code.

[l3lueMage]

oh, yours seems a bit more complicated o.O it took me a while to figure out what you were doing, had to look up some stuff also XP

[Tachyon360]

Kubjelle, on Mar 29 2005, 02:29 PM, said:

But I think Assembler is the name of the program who turns the assembly code to hex.

Yeah, an assembler is used to create programs out of assembler code, but Assembler in and of it self seems to be interchangable with Assembly. I just think Assembler sounds better, so that's what I use.

[l3lueMage]

hehe finally got one of my programs up made in C++

http://www.adenu.com/programs.htm

um ya, do whatever u want with it, i need Visual Studio .net to compile my big one, to lazy to install it(freezes comp)