[Izar]

http://www.foxnews.c...,151085,00.html

There was a school shooting in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It's pretty sad on how odd people become nowadays. Hopefully, the world will not continue this.

[Nobody]

Uh...
Shouldn't this be in off-topic? XD

Anyway, this is just terrible. What is the cause of atrocities like that one? What is driving people so mad like that? It just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

[TobiasMar]

Whoah, it's sad that some people don't care about their's or other's education, and then because this guy didn't like school, he murdered some students and teachers, I mean...this is wrong...but then again, this is in the wrong forum. XD

[Crimson Barrel Knight]

Well, dude, I hate to break it to ya, but this is in Off Topic, no doubt. =/

There's so many school shootings today everywhere that the news teams can't cover it all.

[TobiasMar]

Actually Barrel, itt was in one of the GSW forums earlier before I contacted n1presta about the thread. But, I dunno if that's true Barrel, it may be though.

[My Best Wishes]

Frigs sake why can't teens just sort out their problems without shooting things up.

Edit: This just came on my 6 o'clock news here. Whats the indian tribe?

[Elliott]

Because the torment and fear of rejection and social status becomes too much that they become somewhat psychotic. Then shooting people seems the only way to end their pain and suffering, but ending the lives of those who caused it. Plus guns are fairly easy to aquire in the US. Don't blame them, blame the high school *******s who make their lives hell, some of them deserve it.

[Illidan]

Agatio, on Mar 22 2005, 06:28 PM, said:

Because the torment and fear of rejection and social status becomes too much that they become somewhat psychotic. Then shooting people seems the only way to end their pain and suffering, but ending the lives of those who caused it. Plus guns are fairly easy to aquire in the US. Don't blame them, blame the high school *******s who make their lives hell, some of them deserve it.

Killing doesn't justify anything Agatio, no matter who's fault it is that tempted them to do so. They should learn how to control their inner emotions, especially if it's going to hurt others. It's still wrong and under no circumstances should anyone resort to it.

[Neo]

yes, I had read this in the papers the morning, and the first thing I though, was; Another ****** who tried to be cool... I cencored it, just in case. in the last 8 years, there have been 15 shootouts from kids at school. most of the shooters survived, and there was even one with 3 times a lifetime in prison, plus 140 years. and another one with 210 years. even a 6 year old kid who shot his friend, also 6 years old.
these shoot-outs are... somehow strange. what a sick mind must a kid has, to take a gun and actually fire it. I can't even imagine it to kill somebody in cold blood, and even smile (he was smiling, as least, that was what I read in the newspaper). and then the second thing, that he killed his grandparents before that, also unthinkable. those kids must be mentaly distorted, or even worse.

[Elliott]

You don't seem to understand Illidian. Sometime the pain and rejection that these people feel inside becomes too much, and overwhelms them. I know it doesn't make killing right, but you need to see it from both points of view before making your decision on who is right.

[Ganon]

Man! The people in this world! Scaring and KILLING kids who were COMPLETELY innocent! These are the kinds of people who make the world bad!

And trust me! My school just went crazy on us about abductions and shootings and now, you can onlly go to the bathroom with your class. If you forget something, the WHOLE class has to go up with you to get it. You are NEVER EVER supposed to be out of their sights. Its crazy. So I'm REALLY freaked out about this. This could be the thing their worried about, and it can get in our school.

[Illidan]

Agatio, on Mar 22 2005, 11:20 PM, said:

You don't seem to understand Illidian. Sometime the pain and rejection that these people feel inside becomes too much, and overwhelms them. I know it doesn't make killing right, but you need to see it from both points of view before making your decision on who is right.

Well obviously they're weak people if they need to resort to killing innocent people. I suggest they go to a psychologist if their actions are so uncontrollable as you make it sound.

[Neo]

Killing people, no matter how you are feeling, deserves the same punishment. I don't want to see it from the killer's side, no matter how he feels, what he has done before and what te problem is. killing only makes it worse.

[Elliott]

Of course it deserves the same punishement, but you have to see it from their point of view. The people who tormented them in high school are the ones to blame. If they had just opened their minds, rather than bullying them, then this would not have happened.

[Illidan]

So you're saying, if I was bullied at school then I have the right to kill others and blame it on the bullies? Hmph that would make me NO different from them at all. Since I'm hurting others because of my own insecurities. It's their fault for letting it get to them in the first place.

Neo although I agree with you, killing is not justifiable nor does killing justify killing itself. Well in my opinion.

[Yokutai]

Illidan, on Mar 22 2005, 08:11 AM, said:

Well obviously they're weak people if they need to resort to killing innocent people. I suggest they go to a psychologist if their actions are so uncontrollable as you make it sound.

Most Kids Or should I say teenagers don't think like that.
Also if they're weak people what does that make the bullies that torment thier lives :)

[Elliott]

I never said it justified it, I just said that you need to see it from their point of view. I for one know what it's like to go to school every day hating yourself, and hating the people around you more than anything else in the world. I got over it of course, and now I'm fine. But the fact remains that their pain is real, and can push them over the edge, as displayed in this recent shooting.

[Illidan]

Well the harhar for letting it get to them so much. It pushes them over the edge that they have to hurt others because of it? Not even hurt, kill. Nobody ever has the right to take some elses life no matter what they're feeling.

Quote

Most Kids Or should I say teenagers don't think like that.
Also if they're weak people what does that make the bullies that torment thier lives 

As weak as they are.

[Yokutai]

I would say weaker because to torment someones life everyday is very low and pathetic.

[Nobody]

Agatio, on Mar 22 2005, 07:47 AM, said:

Of course it deserves the same punishement, but you have to see it from their point of view. The people who tormented them in high school are the ones to blame. If they had just opened their minds, rather than bullying them, then this would not have happened.

Illidan, on Mar 22 2005, 08:00 AM, said:

So you're saying, if I was bullied at school then I have the right to kill others and blame it on the bullies? Hmph that would make me NO different from them at all. Since I'm hurting others because of my own insecurities. It's their fault for letting it get to them in the first place.

Neo although I agree with you, killing is not justifiable nor does killing justify killing itself. Well in my opinion.

Look, I agree with Agatio. Since when did he say the the fact about the bullying justified the shootings?
Anyway, I think it was ultimately the shooter's fault: he could have settled the matter in many different ways that would've been better, such as telling the school authority.

[Yokutai]

Sometimes though school authority doesn't really do much or they make it worse.

And going to the cops is pointless because what are you going to say, I'm Being bullied?

[TobiasMar]

Well, earlier this morning, I did hear that the person who did the school shooting visited a Neo-Nazi website!

Whoah, now why would he go there in the frist place? I mean, it influenced him to do this I think. Too bad we may never know since he killed himself...

[Angelic_Raine]

I'm sorry to say this to those that disagree but I see Agatio's point! Maybe perhaps because I had to go through it and still today suffer from it, I can understand what these kids are sometimes forced to go through. Luckily it was in elementary school and kids weren't quite as cruel as they somehow learn to be in high school. It still hurts. I mean it's a very awkward time of your life (when you're going through many changes in your life) that will shape your entire future and it can be very hard to ask for help when you feel you don't deserve it and people like that make you feel like you aren't worth anything, not even your own skin. You can say that it's easy to ignore someone, but try doing it every day of your life, every hour? Eventually, although you ignore it and ignore it, you start to believe it yourself. That's why I think I'm such a horrible person, because everyone I knew kept telling me I was. Yet, I still won't ask for help and keep tormenting myself. Why? Because things will never change and I'll always be like that... not saying I'm going to shoot up my school but people deal with feelings differently, I also wasn't tormented probably as bad as this teen was. It wasn't necessarily anything they did, but more or less something they could have been forced to believe. I do feel sorry for him, but I also agree that it wasn't right.. thing is I feel sorry for EVERYONE involved and not just the so called "victims" because he was likely a victim before he went and killed anyone. It really is a tragedy but tough truth is that's the way the world is...

[Illidan]

Nobody, on Mar 23 2005, 08:17 AM, said:

Look, I agree with Agatio. Since when did he say the the fact about the bullying justified the shootings?
Anyway, I think it was ultimately the shooter's fault: he could have settled the matter in many different ways that would've been better, such as telling the school authority.

Der of course it's the shooter's fault. Agatio is saying it isn't.

He's saying that it's not the shooter's fault, meaning it's justifiable.

[gsninja]

It's so sad how these people start shooting people because of some extreme pain that they've been feeling. I've never felt that way before, I know that, but it's just horrible hen situations like these happen...

[Echo_djinn]

These things happen. I remember the shooting that happened with some of my schoolmates just last year. Though it was not on school the principal held a meeting to remember this. I wasn't in the school at that time but when I transferred there thats all I heard about in the school.

[Andross]

Most school shootings result because:
1. The child comes from a broken home (abuse, divorce, death) or an environment where parental supervision is severly lacking
2. The child is an outcast in the school, and most of the times end up as such because they may be dealing with the problems at home or end up in the wrong crowd due to lack of parental guidance at home
3. The child is severly depressed, has a pre-existing mental condition which has not yet manifested, or is going through a developmental stage during a difficult time

Sometimes the case is the child is very young, 8 years or younger, gets a hold of a gun, doesn't know what it is or the consequences that could result from its use, and pull the trigger while playing around with friends. This is a case where the parent is an accessory to murder, as it's impossible for the child to have known what was going on. That would have to be one bad environment in the first place for the child to have such lucidicy to be able to follow a plan to kill some classmates.

While tormenting may cause things to boil over, most of the problems arise at home, and that just leads to torment because, as said, they end up with the wrong crowd or become reclusive due to their severe problems at home.

They decide to kill in the end because they cannot get help from their parents, they don't know how the police could ever help them, they have no friends who would recommend talking with an adult in the first place (rather, they'd say "yeah, blow their heads off"), and they feel no attachment to their world anyway, so what's it matter that they kill a dozen people then shoot one into their brain?

The reasons for school shootings stem from psychological torment and misguidance in the home environment. A kid could be bullied at school, but he won't go shooting kids up if he has a strong parental base at home and a few decent friends and teachers.

[TobiasMar]

Well, doesn't bullying also occur from a simaler reason, Andross? (without the gun part)

[Andross]

Bullying is a result of insecurity and want for social status. Bullying doesn't have to be beating someone up, and your point is thus lost, whatever you were trying to say in the first place. Most bullies do not always have problems at home. Most of the time they're just spoiled and aren't taught much. Spoiled kids don't shoot people.

[Omega]

Actually spoiled kids COULD shoot people you know.

[Yokutai]

Anyone can shoot anyone, no matter the background.

[Omega]

I mean if children are really spoiled, wouldn't they want things their way? That is a reason that a shooting could start. By the way, the guy that shot everyone DID have some problems at home. I think his dad died, his mom had a mental defection. He also got the gun because his dad was a cop.

[Andross]

Omega, on Mar 25 2005, 06:55 PM, said:

I mean if children are really spoiled, wouldn't they want things their way?

That makes no sense. If they want things their way, they would whine about it. No spoiled brat would have the guts to pick up a gun and even shoot at a board. Most are all tough on the outside, if they try to be, but are really plain wimps when it comes down to it.

In addition, how would shooting someone get them what they want? It wouldn't. That's what. If you mean they didn't get what they wanted or someone didn't follow their orders, they still wouldn't go off the edge without a pre-existing mental health condition, because have you ever heard of a rich white kid gunning down 13 students and teachers? I don't think so.

[Crimson Barrel Knight]

Andross, on Mar 25 2005, 05:27 PM, said:

That makes no sense. If they want things their way, they would whine about it. No spoiled brat would have the guts to pick up a gun and even shoot at a board. Most are all tough on the outside, if they try to be, but are really plain wimps when it comes down to it.

In addition, how would shooting someone get them what they want? It wouldn't. That's what. If you mean they didn't get what they wanted or someone didn't follow their orders, they still wouldn't go off the edge without a pre-existing mental health condition, because have you ever heard of a rich white kid gunning down 13 students and teachers? I don't think so.

That may be, but you probably never know. I was a spoiled child right off the bat, but then I was hardened on the inside (not the outside) because my former school district was the worst place for social development.

Last year, I shot myself in the chest with my stepfather's gun, barely missing my right lung, because I was driven mad by depression, sorrow, hate, the whole lot. Mainly it was about the things that happened at school the past few days before, and I just couldn't learn to cope with it. Well, I'm glad to say that I survived that, and ever since, those problems don't bother me at all.

So say what you want. Although you really shouldn't expect a person to be spoiled at the start and stay as "wimpy" as you think all their life. In fact, I'm not even wimpy. It's more like I'd rather be hyper than depressed. Although I can believe you don't really believe such bull coming from me, eh? Like it's even bull at all.

EDIT: And about the "rich white kid" part. That's not really part of the whole idea. They'd actually do it, but only for fun, 'cause they think that they're better than the rest of the school.

[Andross]

As I said before, they'd have to have another pre-existing mental health condition for a spoiled brat to shoot up a school. Obviously, you had a severe bout of depression.

BTW, by spoiled brat, I refer to those who are the Abercrombie and Fitch poser kids who live in suburbia but think they're all 'gangsta' just 'cause they listen to rap. Get what I'm poking at?

[Nick Presta]

Quote

but think they're all 'gangsta' just 'cause they listen to rap.

How dare you talk about me! =P

I find things slightly different in Canada than in the US, but of course, that is just me. In Toronto, everyone acts "gangster" regardless of who or what you are. It's just the way it is.

http://meetmeinto.com/events.asp

There is a link for people in Toronto Clubs (although not a great representation) for those who want to see hwo Torontoians are like.


Anyways, about this shooting, I think the student (shooter) had something wrong in the home and had something wrong from a very early age. No one gets bullied once or twice, and decides to pick up a gun and shoot people. This has been an ongoing and serious thing for a while and no one has/could recognize it.

[Crimson Barrel Knight]

Andross, on Mar 25 2005, 11:00 PM, said:

As I said before, they'd have to have another pre-existing mental health condition for a spoiled brat to shoot up a school. Obviously, you had a severe bout of depression.

This is the part where I am about to own you (no offense). I have Asperberger's syndrome, which is a loss in DNA molecules during birth. This pretty much affects my brain, as does it affect my emotions. That's why I was depressed.

But there's more, after you begin to think that my owning was completely pointless. I have no intentions of bringing a gun to school, because I realized a long time ago that the biggest things that happen to you in life are not really big at all. More like they're there to obstruct your path, but you can still push them out of the way.

So, that goes to show you that being spoiled doesn't really land you in the position where you give off not-so-inevitable promises where you threaten to shoot everything that moves in school.

And where the heck did you get the Abercrombie & Fitch crap from? Abercrombie & Fitch is just a clothing style, not an accessory for those kind of kids described in the above paragraph. Anyone can wear it if they wish to, and not even start pulling off threats. I have a friend that wears it just because she doesn't care what she looks like. Seriously.

[Nobody]

Crimson Barrel Knight, on Mar 28 2005, 12:25 AM, said:

This is the part where I am about to own you (no offense). I have Asperberger's syndrome, which is a loss in DNA molecules during birth. This pretty much affects my brain, as does it affect my emotions. That's why I was depressed.

whoa, you have asperbergers? Well, just to let you know, you're not the only one at this forum with that problem :) . I have it too.

Anyway, for you to mean having a "brain problem" to shoot people, it would depend on what type of brain problem.

[Andross]

Crimson Barrel Knight, on Mar 28 2005, 06:25 AM, said:

And where the heck did you get the Abercrombie & Fitch crap from? Abercrombie & Fitch is just a clothing style, not an accessory for those kind of kids described in the above paragraph. Anyone can wear it if they wish to, and not even start pulling off threats. I have a friend that wears it just because she doesn't care what she looks like. Seriously.

You completely missed the point of that comment :)
There's a difference between spoiled brat and being spoiled. A spoiled brat is demanding, rude, selfish, a big jerk, usually gets what they want through constant nagging, and is usually with the cheerleader/jock crowd.

A lot of these spoiled brats are not the spoiled brats with deep troubles at homes. I never said a spoiled brat with a syndrome couldn't shoot up a school. I never said one with problems at homes couldn't. I meant to say, if I didn't say it clearly, that a spoiled brat on their own (no real psychological problems) will not go and shoot up a bunch of kids to prove a point.

If one did, it's obvious that they have had parental misguidance, because they were raised in a delusional environment where they would not realize the consequences of their actions. They may have wanted to watch a "geeky" kid get shot up. They shoot a geek then, but because of lack of parental guidance, suddenly realize what they've done, and are probably screwed.

Abercrombie and Fitch was a manner of speech. I never said that it meant your a poser or a spoiled brat. But it's often what those kids are wearing, and the term isn't just something I made up.

Last of all, I already know what Asperberger's is, that being a type of autism which makes communcation difficult because it is often uncomfortable, which can lead to a lonesome and isolated feeling. There may be other things, but I know of that one because I know someone with the syndrome. It may also be accompanied by a strange 'tick' (they may have an urge to keep a police badge in their pocket at all times for some reason, as an example).

The first part obviously would lead to depression. Once depression hits, the wrong mix of events can lead to the most negative outcomes.

[Elliott]

And Andross owns Crimson!
*blows whistle*
HALF TIME!!!
(take this time to gather your thoughts and present your next comeback)

[Andross]

What is this, March Madness? *throws chair*
This is outrageous!!!

LOL :P

Only Americans would possibly get that joke though. Unless you foreigners pay attention to what happens over here this time of the year and have some knowledge about bball coaches in the area.

Bobby Knight. Crazy ol' man XP

</END THE SPAM>

I wouldn't necessarily state that I owned him. He has his own points. I just believe that a kid wouldn't have the proper state of mind to be able to weild a gun. Those who know right from wrong usually wouldn't shoot up a place. I just don't see how a kid in his/her early or mid teens could shoot up a school without having been influenced by the habits exhibited by his/her parents.

I only believe that full responsibility should be placed on those kids when they start to become an adult. 17 is where your record as an adult starts after all, and 18 is the age when full responsibility is given. Upbringing may still play a role at this age, but it's hard not to have been exposed to outside forces, and thus have had your ideas shaped to what would be considered decently moral (don't kill, don't steal, etc.).

[Zxor]

He probably always does violent things, watches violent things, plays violent things, to have this happen.

[Andross]

*Waits for Crimson to berate Zxor for being blunt*
:/

You don't always need to compulsively do/watch violent things in order to do them. Just like you don't have to read/watch the news every day to know about the War in Iraq.

[Zxor]

That could be a reason though, or he was just really pissed(most likely), at something in his early ages that made him mad, IMO.

[Andross]

O_o

If you read the topic well enough, you would've noticed that he was severely depressed, very self-loathing at the time, and *I'm assuming* his syndrome played a part in it due to the certain qualities of it. I don't think he was necessarily obsessed with violence...he specifically said that things that happened at school at sent him over the edge anyway. He also didn't commit an act of violence against others.

So the point you're trying to make doesn't seem valid enough to me, though Crimson would have to answer on this one in the first place.

[Elliott]

It's easy enough to say " get over it", but you have to take a step back and look at it from their perspective to truly understand what these people go through.

[Kewne]

In todays paper:

[TITLE]
10-year old took gun to school and shot at students.

...The boy brought a soft air gun to his classroom.

The newspaper tried to fool me(it was free so I didn't have to pay for it).

It hasn't been a school shooting in sweden for a long time.
And I agree with you Agatio.

[Izar]

A school shooting in sweden? Wow, your lucky that you have few, just one is too many!

[MysticWarrior]

I don't think stopping school shooting is possible. I believe school shooting is caused by people under too much stress, and people who are jealous or want revenge. As eliminating the above is impossible (Or so I think), school shootings will continue.