[Spirit Icana]

Why do fanfiction authors favor Isaac x Mia (Mudshipping) over Isaac x Jenna (Valeshipping)?

I just don't get it! It's popularity is written all over fanfiction.net and many fall into this abyss thinking this pairing is the best and most logical pairing in the game. Why!

Isaac and Mia only share fuzzy moments when Mia joins Isaac's cause in Mercury lighthouse because she feels she can trust him. That doesn't hint toward any future romance however! Mia shows a calmed face when she learns that Isaac will be alright after his battle at Collosso, but I don't see that implying future romance to the degree where it is the only pairing possible in the game! Isaac never shows any bubbly facial expressions that indicates that he likes her anymore than just a friend.

Even through the implied statements from the locals at Vale, when you talk/mind read them, merely state Mia as a beautiful young girl that has suddenly appeared in place to the common scene that has always been Jenna before hand. Even through Mia's last words from the original Golden Sun, I gather that she does indeed have feelings for Isaac, but she understands that Isaac also has the determination and will to save another friend of his that he grew up with. Mia is undoubtly a pairing option, but certainly not a canon pairing and the popularity of her being with Isaac in fanfiction is driving me nuts. The pairing is old and overused with no real canon information from the games to have it carry through as it does.

Isaac and Jenna share more in-game information to back their romantic likely hood up. Isaac's entire journey is basically fueled in the effort to rescue her, not to save Babi with another dose of immortality drops, or to keep the power of Alchemy from being reawakened. That is proved at the end of Golden Sun where the party set sail on a journey to find her before anything else. Isaac's little facial pop-ups prove this point at the end of the game as well.

When we put Golden Sun: The Lost Age into the picture, we see Jenna's outline and thoughts about Isaac. Now, I don't think I need to mention the scene in Madra where she blushed by the weird mention of his name, but that scene isn't enough to back the possibility of a romantic future between Isaac and Jenna anyway. At Jupiter Lighthouse, if Felix were to deny Isaac's request of holding a meeting at a house in Contigo, Jenna steps in to deny her brother of such action and to assure Isaac that her group will be there. Isaac takes her words to heart and leaves departing with the words that he will always trust her. The two characters have always had strong feelings for each other. From the moment the seal of Alchemy was broken, to the time where the rivaling parties finally united, they have always thought eagerly for the other. Isaac was deep in Jenna's mind before she left Venus Lighthous. And Jenna was in Isaac's mind as backed by Ivan's statements during the Contigo scene where the two rivaling parties met.

Now, Isaac x Jenna is not canon by any means, but the pairing has more information to back their romance possibilities than any other pairing in the game. Mia is definately a possibility, but I just don't understand the concept of putting her with Isaac on so many levels. I can already tell you that Alex has deep feelings for Mia because she is always on his mind in Golden Sun: The Lost Age. Mia may not share those feelings back with Alex, but perhaps she likes Isaac to an extent. Isaac may not look at her, however, on that same note, but he certainly shares Jenna's feelings for him.

Isaac x Jenna is the most likely romantic pairing to occur in the series and I'm very disappointed to see this pairing get canned so many times in favor for Isaac x Mia. That pairing lacks substance and it brutality disgusts my tastes in Golden Sun fanfics because it commonly shows up in almost every story people write. They are several Isaac x Jenna fics out their, but hardly any of the ones I've read actually take the pairing seriously with depth. Sometimes, the pairing are simply implied through completely out of game means in the fics as well. It drives me nuts and I wish this nonesense could end.

Well, that's my rant on the issue. Discuss if you like.

[Lind]

Thank God, I'm ot the only one with these rantings. When writing my fanfic, Dawn to Dusk, I took this to thought and just couldn't see the IsaacXMia pairing working out as well as most people make it out to. Yes, it's possible, but to be honest, I see IsaacXGaret working out more than that setup. Anyway, like you said, the IsaacXJenna pairing just has way to many hints throuout both games to just throw it out. I also see the AlexXMia coupling working very easily, too.

Since you're a newb, you probably haven't read my story yet, but I apply this and take it very seriously. It you can get through the 35+ and still going chapters of it, you'll see what I mean.

I think this topic belongs in Fanfiction, rather than in this general forum, so an admin or mod might move it there.

[Spirit Icana]

Lind, on Apr 2 2005, 06:38 PM, said:

Thank God, I'm ot the only one with these rantings. When writing my fanfic, Dawn to Dusk, I took this to thought and just couldn't see the IsaacXMia pairing working out as well as most people make it out to. Yes, it's possible, but to be honest, I see IsaacXGaret working out more than that setup. Anyway, like you said, the IsaacXJenna pairing just has way to many hints throuout both games to just throw it out. I also see the AlexXMia coupling working very easily, too.

Since you're a newb, you probably haven't read my story yet, but I apply this and take it very seriously. It you can get through the 35+ and still going chapters of it, you'll see what I mean.

I think this topic belongs in Fanfiction, rather than in this general forum, so an admin or mod might move it there.

Dawn to Dusk? Alright, I'll search for the story and read it.

As for the placement of this topic, I considered the fanfiction boards but I was afraid that that board was strictly reserved for the stories themselves so I posted it here where users discuss Golden Sun casually.

I'm glad you agree with me!

[Unicornmaddy]

I writing a story on Fanfiction.net aswell and it annoys me how many people have put IsaacXMia pairings in their stories. I like IsaacXJenna stories better and besides Mia belongs with Piers! I like that pairing they're so cute!! :)
Anyways if your wondering yeah I'm new, I only signed up today ^_^
I hope you check out my story it's called Golden Sun 3: The Next Generation you can just click on 'Just In' because I've recently updated it yay! Please Read and Review (r&r)!!

[Neo Juste Belmont]

I soooo agree with you Unicornmaddy.

Mia belongs to Piers and nobody else ! I can't imagine why people prefer her to be with Isaac whereas he's fine as is with Jenna (Yep. I'm aware of her scene in Madra). Anyway, do you remember me, UM ?

[Izar]

Storywise, The best pair would be Jenna and Isaac, even though Mia looks cuter than Jenna(for a video game character, I'm not all into that).

[PyroDragon]

I agree with Unicornmaddy and NJB, thank you very much. Mia belongs with Piers, not Isaac. Isaac belongs with Jenna, Mia belongs with Piers.

I'm annoyed my the overabundance of Mudshipping on FFnet...the site needs more Aquashipping and Valeshipping!

[Shikonaurum]

Beforehand, I should like to express that the first post was very well written, and that this rant is not directed towards you, as you seemed to put complete thought into your post. This is towards the people who go "So-and-so should be with him/her always and 4eva!"

My opinion on the topic: many pairings have no basis. Mia/Piers has practically as much basis as Isaac/Mia. Sure, you all may argue, may cry over this or that, but it comes down to evidence. And evidence doesn't match up.

Many can use: "Oh! Look! It's that smilie face!" or "OMG SHE TALKED TO HIM OMG YOU'RE WRONG!!111!" But does that usually mean anything? No. But pairings are in our own minds, not anyone else's. If you don't want to read a certain topic, don't.

Sure, Jenna/Isaac is canon. However, it only seems to go ONE-WAY. Maybe I'm mistaken; prove me wrong if you wish.

Alex/Mia, as stated in the first post, is one-sided as well but also somewhat justified. Heck, since Alex is pretty much calm and pays equal attention to anyone, Felix/Alex and Jenna/Alex and Saturos/Alex can also be argued. I'm a personal fan of those first three, but that's aside the point. Is there much basis? No. Can you write it nonetheless? Yes.

Purists of any sorts, and people with closed minds -- don't try to deny it, we all are at a point or another -- try and open up a little. No basis does not mean that it cannot work in one person's perspective. The best we can hope for is an author with good enough skills to show a pairing we don't agree with, and manage to make it seem plausible. Now that is talent.

[Sea of Time]

In my fanfic, Isaac is with Jenna because I think that's the way it's supposed to be.

People just do Isaac and Mia to make their story less predictable and interesting. However, I do agree that they are not a made couple and there is no love shown between them in either of the games.

[gsninja]

Well, although it doesn't show in the game, Isaac and Mia could've probably had feelings for each other, and we didn't know. I'm the fanfic I'm writing, Golden Sun: Alchemy's Power, I'm still not too sure which pairing to put: Mudshipping or Valeshipping.

Nonetheless, I think that those two shippings are my favs n.n

[gsninja]

Well, although it doesn't show in the game, Isaac and Mia could've probably had feelings for each other, and we didn't know. I'm the fanfic I'm writing, Golden Sun: Alchemy's Power, I'm still not too sure which pairing to put: Mudshipping or Valeshipping.

Nonetheless, I think that those two shippings are my favs n.n

[gsninja]

Well, although it doesn't show in the game, Isaac and Mia could've probably had feelings for each other, and we didn't know. I'm the fanfic I'm writing, Golden Sun: Alchemy's Power, I'm still not too sure which pairing to put: Mudshipping or Valeshipping.

Nonetheless, I think that those two shippings are my favs n.n

EDIT: Why are there three posts!? I only posted once o.o

[Unicornmaddy]

I think in the end however it's all down to personal choice and you can't go around saying to people 'don't support such & such shipping is complete cr ap!' My favourite pairings are Vale, Aqua, Wind and Prox shipping I also like Mia/Felix pairing. But things like Lighthouse and Mud I can't stand.

[firecracker]

If you guys really want to know about why mudshipping is more popular is because there was an 'accident' while isaac and mia and company were on there quest. to cover it up, they have to get married. (age 17 wtf?)

only kidding

[Unicornmaddy]

:lol: hmmm... funny firecracker

[Zaffa Dot Xom]

The thing is ...

This whole world of video game character romance is just a little undialating. True, in example, that Isaac and Jenna are a very, very possible couple, but, you must not forget, it's only a video game. A video game is to present you with a fun activity to do in your spare time.

I understand that, as video games have evolved, emotions within the games have been included, as well as storytelling. Sure, fan fictions are evident through more than just video games, but recently I've seen people focus too much on video game relationships. My assumption is that, to a certain point, that two characters flash certain signs towards each other in one game, the author of the fan fiction between those two characters tries to fill in the missing gaps with many ideas of their own.

Well, you're right about the Isaac x Mia thing; there isn't much to rely on, and there's way too many gaps to fill just on your own to support the relationship that much. So, the whole Mudshipping thing is overrated probably because many of the nuubs (half-n00b, half-newbie) mingle amongst each other and share their ideas, and the listening side would have had to agree, possibly because they didn't care, as long as the speaker was happy. Besides, most of the authors of such fan fictions are, truly, nuub girls; pretty much because the female preteen-teenage agenda is emotional disfunction and all that jazz.

But that isn't my point, which brings me back to the whole ordeal about video game couples. People say it's pointless, others say it's awesome; the latter having an underlying meaning which says that the person has nothing better to do than to drool over them, so it seems. So then, is it pointless? Well, to my belief, it's all just in the middle. I somewhat do tend to care about video game couples, but only because I want to try to either start some sort of internet-wide phenomenon, or I'd join a group dedicated to the coupling. But these days you don't really need to be determined to find me in that sort of thing, simply because my interest in it is lost within the crowd of more important things I should be doing.

The verdict? Keep the sensible couples, but keep in mind how pointless it still is.

[firecracker]

*COUGHJENNAXKRADENCOUGH*

[Unicornmaddy]

awww... lovely a nice Jenna and Kraden pairing to finish my breakfast down the toilet.

;) I've just noticed could firecracker be our next Jack :) :P Noooooooooo!!

[Adam]

Okay, here's how I see it: This is a 16-bit game with (compared to PC or console) sucky, pixelated graphics, and to top it all off, it's translated from Japanese. Nothing more could spell out "DON'T KILL EACH OTHER OVER PAIRINGS DUE TO INCOMPREHENSIBILITY" than that. I mean, really now. I think that when the game was made the only intended pairings were IsaacxJenna and GaretxJenna, maybe with a little PiersxSheba (don't be hatin'! Just basing off of that one comment whenst casting off from Lemuria). ***/Lesbian couplings were not intended, unless Camelot has some dark, dark secrets we aren't suppossed to know.

HOWEVER!

I do appreciate the fact that a rabid fanboy/girl can take these assumptions and make them into full-fledged fanfics, etc., but come on! Nothing to kill eachother over!

[el_Sethro]

I've always been perplexed about all this shipping business. Love really doesn't play much of a role at all in Golden Sun, and I don't understand everyone's fascination with it.

However, if they MUST, then based soley on the evidence that was blatantly thrown at me in the game, I'd say

Isaac & Jenna (because of the Madra scene)
Felix & Sheba (because he is very protective of her and jumps off a lighthouse to save her)

and that's it. Mia is single. there isn't really anyone who she expresses an interest in, except that Alex seems to like her. I don't think she'd be with Piers because they barely ever acknowledge each other, plus he's most likely about ten times her age.

anyway, it doesn't really matter, because love has nothing to do with Golden Sun.

[firecracker]

Jack? hmmm

[The Lord of the Morning]

There's also signs of GaretxMia, such as at Jupiter Lighthouse, and Mia always teasing Garet, and then Garet with his arm around her in the ending sequence, but that isn't what I'm here to rant about.


I'm here because I seriously take offence at those who belittle the world of Golden Sun as "just a video game", saying "it really doesn't matter because it's just a game for some enjoyment". However, the same could be said about any book you read or any movie you watch. RPG's are different from most video games for a reason: People play them because of the story. RPG's are a medium of Storytelling, and every good story spawns love and admiration and study of such. If we were talking Lord of the Rings, or Star Wars, or even oldies like Huckleberry Finn, you people would (hopefully) hold more appreciation and in depth study of the character relationships, the themes, and the message and moral of the story.

Character Interaction is almost always the center stage of the conflict. Without interaction amongst the characters, there is no plot, except in the extremely rare cases that can get away without any characters. Love is one of the most powerful emotional responses of the human psychology. Isaac goes on his quest because of his love for Jenna, not to save the world or to become stronger. Unlike most Psionics, he fights not to become more powerful, but to save Jenna. His actions and motives are probably the hardest to determine out of any of the characters because we don't hear him speak until the final chapters of GS2. But if you follow what he does at each major point, you'll see that he desires to save Jenna, rather than save the world. Only once he knows Jenna is safe does he allow himself to return to his quest for Babi- He wants to know she is alive, because he can't stand losing her after all this. Isaac wouldn't have pursued Saturos if he didn't have Jenna and Kraden, and maybe even if Saturos still had Kraden would Isaac have stayed in Vale. Jenna and Isaac are kindred spirits, both having lost family in the storm. They had finally recovered from the shock and sorrow, because they had each other, and now they're ripped from each other.

If Jenna had been safe, and Kraden kidnapped, then Isaac probably would have stayed behind, keeping the Mars Star in Vale for safe-keeping, because it's just too big of a responsibility. In Vale Sanctum, he had to make a decision: Leave Vale to save Jenna and recover the stars, or allow the world's fate fall into the hands of Saturos, Menardi, Felix, and Alex. This was too big for Garet and Isaac. We know this because Garet's reaction to Isaac's final decision, and because Isaac has to think carefully over the question, instead of being forced to go about saving the world as in other RPGs. But Jenna WAS kidnapped, and that tipped the balance to going off on the mission. Saving Jenna was his top priority. Whenever they speak of saving those kidnapped, Kraden is almost never mentioned, but Jenna is always at the heart of it (except a couple Sheba scenes). Jenna MUST mean more to Isaac than anyone else in his entire life, including his own Mother- if he cared about his Mother's health more than Jenna's freedom, than he would have stayed home. If he had to make a choice between Jenna or his Mother, then he very may well have chosen Jenna.

I'm not going to rant about Mudshipping. You people are entitled to your opinions. However, I do believe that for me Mudshipping makes the story of Golden Sun weaker, because it means that Isaac cares more about his new-found friend from Imil than the person who's life and safety is the motivation behind his entire quest. In fact, once Isaac and Jenna are reunited in Contigo, he steps out of the spotlight, saying "This is Felix's quest now, we're just doing what we can to help out" (or some close variation of that sentence).

If Mia was the core of his life, then he would care more about getting to Lemuria than getting to Jenna, because Lemuria would hold the key he needed to stop Felix from lighting the other Lighthouses. If he didn't care for Jenna, he wouldn't have joined Felix in Contigo, because Mia's goal was to stop the lighthouses from being lit. It was because of his unconditional love for Jenna that he opened his mind and heart to what Felix had to say, and was convinced to finish the job Saturos and Menardi had started.

Now, on the opposite side, I think that Alex and Mia is one of the most interesting and emotional conflicts of the entire story. What is Alex's motives? Why does he seek to gain the power of the Stone of Sages? He wants to save Mia, but he can't let himself, because he has to finish the job he started, and gain the Golden Sun. Alex is probably the most enigmatic character in the entire story, because of his mysterious motives that make me doubt in his true evilness and insanity. I doubt Alex would destroy Weyard. I seriously doubt that. Alex cares for one thing more than anything in this world: Mia. He was willing to sacrifice any chance he had with her to get the one thing he knew he could protect her with. If something were to happen to her, he would never forgive himself. Therefore, he set about to gain the power to save her from dying, so that she wouldn't have to suffer. It's an AnakinxPadme story, except that Mia doesn't love Alex from the beginning to the end. Alex makes a pact with the darkness to try to save her, and therefore inadvertently hurts her, and may very well kill her or almost kill her is Golden Sun 3 ever comes around. That is the nature of his love, of his weakness, in my mind. That is why I love to study their relationship and it is a core element of my own fanfiction, which is currently being modified and won't be up soon.

So, having put in my two cents, I shall bid thee adieu.

[Adam]

Wow, those last two posts made me think more about GS from those perspectives...

Anyways, I want to clarify what I said earlier, I just meant that this isn't (like said above) FFX or whatever where there's fully animated cutscenes and dramatic voice-acting (and a way-better-than-the-one-they-used-in-GS North America localization team...you have to admit there were a few blatant translation errors in GS), so as to better convey the story. I mean, if this had been a console game, everyone's views on shipping (except for those blasted Incest and Kraden-to-anyone shippers) would probably be radically different.

Also, I'd have to side with High King here, I thought the whole concept was more focused on friendship than on romance, although I'm pretty sure it was intended for Isaac to have feelings for Jenna he didn't know about, because he viewed her as a friend, and not as a date-hopeful (like Garet).

[gsninja]

I never thought of Golden sun from a perspective of the characters' for for others. I mean, think about it: When Isaac was given the ultimate decision of whether to go on the journey or not, it meant 2 things: 1) If he went, it meant he had the chance to save his friends AND to save the world from particular destruction, or 2) If Isaac declined, there was a high chance that everyone would die. Isaac didn't really have a choice, and I highly doubt love pushed him into accepting, but that's my opinion.

What makes Golden sun so interesting is the fact that Camelot left many things unanswered. therefore, players of Golden sun were left to wonder, using the creativity in their minds to think of several important things that couold possibly fill the gaps of all those unanswered questions...

Now, to my next point: As said before, one of Golden Sun's elements focus' more on bonds of friendship, as well as determination and courage, not love. This means that it isn't exactly possible to tell if Mudshipping, Valeshipping, etc. is the better couple setup. For example, we obviously know that Jenna has strong feelings for Isaac, due to the scene at Madra. However, if you then take the time to think about Mia, she also might be harboring some powerful feelings for Isaac as well. This is unclear, though, so it really isn't worth complaining about which shipping is the best or not. Everyone has their opinions, and none are to be taken so personally...

Alrighty, I'm done talking n.n