[Eugine]

Well, I finally decided to take up Web Designing as my internet hobby rather than posting loads on MSN Messenger :o.

Anyways, I wanted to know what does it take to become an excellent Web Designer, image wise, there's no need to help me with coding since Max is helping me in that field.

So, I created this topic. Here are questions I have.

1. What program(s) do you reccomend to creating excellent images, layouts etc.
2. How do you think one should approach these programs, in terms of usage. Should one approach Photoshop or Studio Max first? (for example).
3. How did you learn these programs? What tutorial, sites or whatever helped you in this quest.

Any other advise would be grateful. :o

[Nick Presta]

Quote

1. What program(s) do you reccomend to creating excellent images, layouts etc.
2. How do you think one should approach these programs, in terms of usage. Should one approach Photoshop or Studio Max first? (for example).
3. How did you learn these programs? What tutorial, sites or whatever helped you in this quest.

1. Stick to learning how to code, then worry about how it looks.
2. Again, refer to #1.
3. Number 1 best site ever: http://htmldog.com

That's about it. I also learned a lot from these sites:
http://infinity-stuff.com/webref.php
Go to the CSS section and save, steal and use what they give you and learn from it.

Also, debug your HTML documents everytime you finish one. It will help you understand what you did wrong and how to use each element properly.

And also, no frames or tables for layouts. Tables = tabular data, Frames = no good use you will be needing. Learn CSS and (X)HTML from http://htmldog.com

[Andross]

Eugine, on Aug 4 2005, 08:39 PM, said:

Well, I finally decided to take up Web Designing as my internet hobby rather than posting loads on MSN Messenger :o.

Anyways, I wanted to know what does it take to become an excellent Web Designer, image wise, there's no need to help me with coding since Max is helping me in that field.

So, I created this topic. Here are questions I have.

1. What program(s) do you reccomend to creating excellent images, layouts etc.
2. How do you think one should approach these programs, in terms of usage. Should one approach Photoshop or Studio Max first? (for example).
3. How did you learn these programs? What tutorial, sites or whatever helped you in this quest.

Any other advise would be grateful. :o

1. As nick said, learn to code. Learn XHTML 1.1. Learn CSS2. Learn clever ways and strategies to implement it at sites such as http://www.alistapart.com/ or http://www.mezzoblue.com/ . You can find ideas at places like http://www.csszengarden.com or http://www.cssvault.com

2. First of all, 3DSM is in no way tied into web design. It's a 3D modeling program. You do not have to use it in order to create a graphic. You'll use Photoshop to get an idea of how the site looks, and then you'll code from there.

3. Exploration. Experimentation. Time. Searching for tuts on how to do something will occur, but most of the time, the creativity must be generated by yourself.

[Eugine]

I already know how to code XHTML and little CSS, so um... can I get different answers please?

Just for clarification: Max is helping me with PHP and SQL and such, the more advance stuff.

EDIT: I looked at your artwork topic, you said you used 3DSM, so I was wondering.

[Elliott]

Programs:
Photoshop; The be all and end all tool for creating 2D raster graphics.
3DSM; Known as a great 3D program. Not essential for web design, but can be useful.
For code editing I reccomend Crimson Editor, or just good ol' notepad.

Photoshop is dead easy once you learn your way around the functions. But a huge part of being good with photoshop is a sense of design, knowing what looks good and what doesn't.

For tutorials I reccomend good-tutorials.com, and for help, neverside.com is a good forum, despite being full of elitist wankers.

Advice: Practice, experiment, learn from peers (online and off), ASK QUESTIONS, read through tutorials, look at source code, never get into a comfort zone (very important) and keep up with design trends, i.e pixel fonts are dead, gradients are good in moderation etc.

[Kubjelle]

Photoshop/paintshop/fireworks and so on is the most important thing to learn. You can be a hell of a coder, but still make crappy designs.. But you must also learn (x)html and CSS tough..

I think Agatios adviceses are pretty good, follow them. Also join a web community where you can learn much from. (belive me, it's plenty of them)

[Eugine]

I'll just use notepad. Works fine for me.

Can I get some links to some weddesigning community?

[Wiflewood]

If you want to add little games/flashy things to your site, then try here:

www.dynamicdrive.com

Most of them are quite tacky, but there is the occasional good code.

[Nick Presta]

http://boards.gamefa...c.php?board=236

Not to advertise, but there a is pretty decent web design community. There are a lot of people there that know what they're talking about.
And as Andross said, alistapart, mezzoblue, Zen Garden, Zeldman, etc all have great examples.

And I wouldn't worry too much about PHP/SQL yet, unless you're sure you know and understand XHTML 1.1 and CSS1/2 perfectly.

[Mallick]

Eugine, on Aug 4 2005, 11:45 PM, said:

I already know how to code XHTML and little CSS, so um... can I get different answers please?

Just for clarification: Max is helping me with PHP and SQL and such, the more advance stuff.

EDIT: I looked at your artwork topic, you said you used 3DSM, so I was wondering.

But what you don't understand is, in order to became "An Excellent Web Designer," you need to know this sorta sheez.

[Eugine]

But thats the last step in becoming it, so I want to image first before I learn the hard stuff like PHP and such.

[Andross]

Coding is NOT the last part in becoming good at design web sites. It is the first thing you should learn before striking up a sense of design. I already gave you links to excellent places for web design.

Also know that you should know CSS - not know a little. It will be a vital tool for you.

Now, aside from that, your question has been answered. It takes inherent talent when it comes down to it to make good looking web sites. You can certainly acquire talents though, but as said, it takes time.

[loz]

Eugine, on Aug 5 2005, 05:40 AM, said:

I'll just use notepad. Works fine for me.

Can I get some links to some weddesigning community?

www.pixel2life.com << has lots of tutorials and u can always ask for help
www.geocities.com << goto helpchat and jus talk there if u need help, I used to hang out there alot until I got pretty confident with my skills

[Eugine]

Andross I was talking about PHP only. Didn't write it out goood though. I viewed your "What languages you know topic" and you didn't know PHP that good either so I was thinking you left that bit for last.

[Andross]

You don't need PHP to be a good web designer. Scripting is not a necessary skill, and usually it simply helps to have a scripter for the site in the first place if you are doing that much dynamic coding.

[Andross]

You are SEVERLY lacking in the knowledge of the world of web designers.

Jeffrey Zeldman is the undisputable king of web design, hands down.
http://www.zeldman.com/

[Nick Presta]

Quote

Jeffrey Zeldman is the undisputable king of web design, hands down.

Eric Meyer comes pretty damned close, if you ask me.

Anyways, Server Side Scripting (PHP and such) is not required for web design. (X)HTML and CSS are. If you don't know those, 99%, you aren't going to do well.

And yes, the design part comes naturally to some and to others, it needs to be worked on.

I suggest, http://jero.net. He talks a lot about web design and standards and he's a friend of mine.

[loz]

are you crazy?
wise old man knows all
http://www.wise-old-man.com

I used to know him online I remember when his site was meh okay and not much stuff on...if I kept in contact I would be a master of all I want to x.x;
Or he had alot but not much since he started 1995 and I met him like 2001.

[Nick Presta]

Considering WOM has 27 errors with HTML 4.01 Transitional, he isn't all too wise.

>_>

Quote

STRUCTURE

You can copy and paste the follow basic HTML structure in a .htm file that you can use as a template for any web page. You can use my help pages to learn how to add to this structure to make more advanced web pages.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled</title>
</head>
<body>

...all your html code goes between the two body tags ...

</body>
</html>

Change the Untitled to the text you want the browser to display at the upper left when the page is loaded.

WTF. He even has a section called "HTM TUTORIALS". You haven't needed to use HTM in like 10 years.

[Eugine]

Can I get some links to Webdesigning sites? So I can discus those things in their forums?

[loz]

heh this should be easy to remember

http://www.htmlforums.com/

[Nick Presta]

nick1presta, on Aug 5 2005, 11:13 AM, said:

http://boards.gamefa...c.php?board=236

Not to advertise, but there a is pretty decent web design community. There are a lot of people there that know what they're talking about.
And as Andross said, alistapart, mezzoblue, Zen Garden, Zeldman, etc all have great examples.

And I wouldn't worry too much about PHP/SQL yet, unless you're sure you know and understand XHTML 1.1 and CSS1/2 perfectly.

Go to the forums at gamefaqs. Some of the best web designer's I've ever seen. They are proficient with XHTML/CSS, PHP/SQL, as well as any other type of web design (colour schemes, cPanel, forums, etc).

[Eugine]

I don't have a GameFAQs account again... So is there any other? The rules could be bent allitle cause its for a good cause and plus those well developed forums/sites don't really *need* me anyways :P

[Kubjelle]

While we are discussion the best webdesigner then http://www.paradoxia.org/ is very good. Alough it is in norwegian. You can also select a style, in Opera.. Push view -> styles there you can chose between 9 styles. It is also possible in Firefox, view -> sitestyle..
(NB I'm just guessing on the names, cause I've got norwegian language on Opera and Firefox)

[Elliott]

Rather than go to a site full of 13-16 year old wannabe designers, find a website/forum that has actual career designers, who get paid for what they do, and have been doing it a long time. There are countless little web design communitiues populated by teenagers who really have no clue about design at the end of the day.

I was directed to http://australianinfront.com.au by my brother a while back. It's a community of Australian designers who about 50% actually work in the field, and can answer your questions a whole lot better than some 14 year old who only started designing a year beforehand.

[Andross]

Sorry Agatio, but most of the brilliant web designers in the world are barely in their 20s or 30s. My bro just turned 21 and he's been making a living doing web design (and his stuff is very good). I don't think just because someone is 16 means they aren't as valid as the 40 year old who's been in the industry since 95.

[Kubjelle]

Well the point is to find a god web community, don't go to a louzy(spl?) invisionfree forum.. (no offence against invisonfree)

[Nick Presta]

Quote

I don't think just because someone is 16 means they aren't as valid as the 40 year old who's been in the industry since 95.

That's the beauty of digital knowledge and the internet.

[Eugine]

It's very hard to find people who are intune into the digital world and are over 50 IMO. Hardly see any.

[M@ni@c]

Not only is webdesign my hobby, but it'll be part of my job when I finish college. Nya, I still have to go through last year of high school to get to college though. I've gotten just a little too caught up in it, I guess >_>. I'm going for Interactive Multimedia Designer. Long name. I'm surprised I even remember it. O_o

Anyway, to get back on track, there are still quite some grown-ups in the gaming world, though. On Ultima Online, for example, there's a GM that's over 40 years old.

[Andross]

^ That's the same area I'm aiming for. Art Institute International of Las Vegas has a BS in that (or something like that). It's also what my bro did (he went to AII of Portland).

On a side note, if you want to HELP get a web design community started, there's always my new site, Zappo :blink: