[Iloverpgs]

Well since yes I DO smoke the ganja quite frequently I would like to see what you guys think of weed. Well my view on it is that to smoke it is to have self control on not to do other drugs. Let's face it marijuana is pretty damn harmless. Has anyone dies from it no. Yes people have died because someone was high but not the actual substance itself. See that's were self-control comes in if it doesn't effect your life largly as in making you steal or w/e and still maintain normal day life, why the hell not toke a few joints or blunts a day? I say weed should be decriminialized in America! It's my body who i'm harming and as long as i'm not harming others cause of it then I should be able to smoke a bowl down the street!

I have lots of other views on it but I wanna see what everyone else says about it.

[Gardna]

Well, why not? If you want to smoke, it's better than the cigarettes :wacko:

[I'm Always BROKE]

I see no harm in it either. Being high is more fun that being drunk and it doesnt give you a headache the next day. :wacko:

[Wiflewood]

Never had it. 'Tis illegal over here, so I don't really have an answer. I can't see that its much worse than Alcohol or cigarettes though.

[Sea of Time]

I don't really want to start an argument, so what the hell. If you guys want to smoke it, I don't really care.

[Someone Else]

Why are you smoking the stuff to begin with?

[Eugine]

With the help of my Biology notes here's my argument:

Since when has Marijuana become harmless to the person, society or economy? Marijuana is a Hallucinogen that stiumlates the Central Nervous System of a person which alters/creates distortions on what the person feel, sees, touches smells and fears. Some people actually witnessed people who are under the influence of this drug thinking they are a bird who can fly; some even jumped of cliffs killing themselves.

This is what my notes have to say, which is very true...

Short term effects: When smoked, the drugs quickly enters the blood and acts on the CNS affecting mood and thinking. This in turn eventually increases heartbeat and pulse rate, it causes restlessness, fear and anxiety; followed by a period of well being, then laughter for no real reason.

Reply to this, I'll tell you the long term effects which are even worse... So to sum it up. Taking that is totally pointless and really, is just a waste on your precious life.

This post has been edited by Eugine: 06 March 2006 - 03:30 PM

[Platinum Sun]

I think that, since it's a choice, it should be legalized. Everyone who's ever been remotley close to any form of media knows that it's bad for them. And I think that if everyone smoked one joint all at the same time, we could solve all the mysteries of the universe.

[Split Infinity]

I don't do drugs myself, and I know I never will, but I'm not about to start a whole thing with this. If you want to smoke it, I don't care, although I'm not saying that I approve of it.

Generally, I like to avoid arguments on 'serious' matters unless absoloutely necessary.

[Eugine]

Marijuana do not only affect you, it affects the society and the economy of a country. Anything which can cause harm to someone that is not yourself should be illegal. If you want to mess-up yourself go ahead, but as long as you can harm another being in the act - no,no.

[Platinum Sun]

Dude, smoking and drinking aren't outlawed and they hurt people. Why is weed singled out like this?

[Eugine]

Honestly, I believe those should be illegal in society also. Nicotine actually does more harm to the bypasser rather than the smoker. Alcohol also causes family problems and many other things.

[Golden Legacy]

I completely agree with Eugine. Alcohol, Cigarettes, Marijuana... all have detrimental effects on the individual and the environment he interacts in. It's not worth the risk.

[el_Sethro]

^ Alcohol and cigarettes, as far as I can tell, are legal for two basic reasons; 1. waay too many people do them already (and cannot - or are unwilling to - quit), so they would be creating thousands if not millions of criminals if they where to ban them; and 2. The government makes a LOT of tax money off them (well, here, anyway)

As for marjuana, I don't do it myself, and I don't understand why other people do do it, but I believe in the freedom of choice. Once it was legalized, it would, like alcolhol, be regulated, and you wouldn't be allowed to drive under the influence, etc. Plus, it would be a lot safer. When a substance that is in high demand is banned, a black market forms, and those who make and sell it don't know of care what they're doing, so long as they make money. If it was legal, there would be regulations on the production of drugs, making them less dangerous.

Also, marjuana DOES have many medical benefits to those suffering from things like cancer, etc.

so in summary; I do not and never will use pot or encourage using it, but I think that it is a much less dangerous drug than most, and I think that legalizing it would be a good idea.

This post has been edited by el_Sethro: 06 March 2006 - 07:10 PM

[Eugine]

They had a debate about legalizing it. Alcohol is legalized and don't you see so much people consuming it like nobody's problem. The samething will happen to it. Adults will use it like nobody's business and eventually children will see it as nobody's business.

Alcohol is the number one consumed drugs and it is infront by a mass lead. Plus the medicinal value of that drug can only been seen after scientists do testing on it. Many medicinal drugs taken by itself can be abused just like weed.

[Someone Else]

el_Seth said what I wanted to say. Too many people smoke cigarrettes and drink alcohol already for it to be illegal. It's like trying to make the keeping of cats as pets illegal, it simply can't be done since too many people have cats already... not that cats have that much of a bad effect but, wtf, you get what I mean. :wacko:

Actually, I think that in some places smoking is illegal.

[Mars Djinni]

I'm pretty sure some small towns may have outlawed them. Can't be too big of a population, because of the amount of smokers who won't stop.

[My Best Wishes]

My view? Well, same as my view on drinking and smoking. Anyone that needs a escape as drastic as drugs is weak/soft/etc etc. I have no time for people who do dumbass stuff to their body (Jackass is an exception :wacko: ). It should stay illegal and that includes medicinal(sp?) reasons.

[Elliott]

I haven't really read a whole lot into Marijuana. But, from what I can tell it kinda ****s with your brain moreso than alcohol, and can become someone addictive (correct me if I'm wrong here). I personally want to try it once, just as another experience, but due to legal issues, addiction etc. etc. I think once would be enough. I'm fine with people doing it as long as they don't become potheads. I know a guy who does it on occasion and he's great so it's not all bad.

[Laharl]

although my photo may suggest i'm a stoner (lol) i've not touched the stuff and never will, Nicotine and drugs are my no nos, alcohol is fine

[Golden Legacy]

I agree with Watch, although perhaps to a less extreme degree. Yes, people who turn to drugs, alcohol, etc. as an outlet of comfort are perhaps weaker than others (or perhaps not as capable of coping with stress, etc).

I've never understood why people smoke it and what their intent is (and I refuse to accept "just for the experience" as a valid response).

[Mars Djinni]

If it damages my body in any way, I'm not gonna try it, nor believe that it can be legal in any way. If it is legalized, it will expand far too quickly, like smoking and alcohol did, and be impossible and beyond my power to do something about it. So long as none of them smokers come near me, I'm okay.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Mars Djinni, on Mar 8 2006, 04:00 AM, said:

If it damages my body in any way, I'm not gonna try it, nor believe that it can be legal in any way. If it is legalized, it will expand far too quickly, like smoking and alcohol did, and be impossible and beyond my power to do something about it. So long as none of them smokers come near me, I'm okay.

Well smoking weed and using other soft drugs are legal here in the Netherlands. But hey, so it prostitution so I just live in a strange country. :blink: I think I smoked it once or twice, being high is a whole other experience than being drunk believe me. But yeah I stopped with it since its pretty expensive and being high isnt always fun.

[PDM]

-You have fun.

-Your headaches are cured.

-The elephant you see isn't pink. :D

[Echo_djinn]

Meh, don't smoke it unless you need it for medical reasons.



My two cents.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Lifeform288, on Mar 8 2006, 07:18 PM, said:

-You have fun.

-Your headaches are cured.

-The elephant you see isn't pink. :D

Dude your waaay too young for that. XD
Otherwise yeah it's fun but after a while you realise its fake and then the fun is all gone.

Atleast smoke with a good friend, makes things more fun. :blink:

[Eugine]

Good friends wouldn't smoke :blink: or do drugs for that matter :D

[Jai]

ok im just gonna say this once it sucks,never tried it,never gonna

[Golden Legacy]

Nicely put, Jai. I couldn't agree more.

[Mars Djinni]

If I want an escape from reality, then I think that sleep'd be a better idea for me.

[Someone Else]

Unless you're like me and you never remember having any dreams period.

So I instead play video games. :blink:

[Eothain]

ok...when i saw the amount of idiotic posts in this thread (most of them, sadly, coming from the more respected members), i just had to post something. My intention is not to flame, but come on, some of your posts are completely unsubstantiated. Let's see, where do i start:

Quote

Good friends wouldn't smoke or do drugs for that matter

so...smoking and doing drugs makes you a bad person all of a sudden? it really saddens me that people make these kinds of remarks. So, yeah, smoking harms you. Most people are disgusted when they see someone light up a cigarette in the street. But the problem is, smoking is one of the few "oh-so-disgusting" things people are allowed to do in public, and the "public", or people in general, are highly steriotypical. If someone smokes, it means they're trash people, who have emotional problems or can't cope with stress. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but that isn't always the case. What if, say, you eat babies. Of course, you wouldn't do it in public. You'd do it in privacy, because it's something you don't want other people to know you do. Because it makes you a bad person. It's wrong, yet you do it. But as long as none of your friends find you out, you won't be a disgusting person to them. Hope you see where i'm getting at. If not, pm me, but i have to move on to other posts....

Quote

ok im just gonna say this once it sucks,never tried it,never gonna

then please explain to me what the f**k you're basing that remarkably senseless comment on? HOW do you know it sucks? according to you, you've NEVER tried it. Don't talk about what you don't know.

Quote

My view? Well, same as my view on drinking and smoking. Anyone that needs a escape as drastic as drugs is weak/soft/etc etc. I have no time for people who do dumbass stuff to their body (Jackass is an exception ). It should stay illegal and that includes medicinal(sp?) reasons.

watch...i really don't know where to start. You seem to very faithfully stick to the idea that people do drugs/drink/smoke just cause they "need an escape"...well, I'll let you in on a little something that you might not be aware of. The media is the one responsible for spreading the idea that the reason why people engage in substance use is because they need an escape. We see it in movies, soap operas, written in novels, etc. People who don't dare try and see what it's really like absorb all this information and take it as fact. You, for example, seem to have done so. I've done drugs, I drink, and smoke, although not on a regular basis. And let me tell you, needing this "escape" you keep mentioning has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Emphasis on the NOTHING. And let me reiterate: NOTHING. This may be shocking to some of you, but most people that do drugs do it because it's a fun group activity. Some people play sports, or play video games, play music, etc. Well, some people do drugs. And yes, I must admit it is fun. We don't bother anyone, we don't bandalize, nor go into killing sprees around town. Nope. We just get together with a couple of friends at someone's house, go in his/her room, and wake up the next day extremely happy. Nobody gets hurt,or pregnant. Just plain ol' fun. Mind you, it's not all i do for fun. I play sports, I am the bass player in a spanish rock band, and i do most of the things you guys do. So, tell me, does that make me "weak"? hmm... I don't use alcohol or drugs to get the "confidence boost" i need to meet people, cause i don't need one. I don't use substances as an "escape". And this weakness thing goes back to what I replied to Eugine. Someone in the boards admits he drinks/smokes/does drugs, and enter watch talking all high and mighty about weakness. Well, at least they admit they do things that most people consider are wrong. That, to me, is strength. You, however, don't seem to be the type of person that's willing to risk his public image by admitting something of that sort. That, my friend, is true weakness.

Moving on...Eugine, you mentioned a couple of times that drugs,specially marijuana, can affect the economy of a country...as ignorant as it may sound to you, i've never heard of such a thing. Enlighten me with examples, please. Also...i know you said those were biology notes...but : marijuana isn't really hallucinogenic....at least "regs", the most common type, isn't. I've VERY seldom heard of someone experiencing wild hallucinations just because of smoking weed. Notice the following part of your post: "Some people actually witnessed people who are under the influence of this drug thinking they are a bird who can fly; some even jumped of cliffs killing themselves." well, guess what...marijuana doesn't make you think you're a bird...or I have an unusually high resilience to the substance. Acid and mushrooms make you think that you're a bird...and all sorts of other weird things. The "people" who witnessed probably don't know crap about drugs, and they jump to the conclusion the average person would: "ZOMFG they sooo high on wee' man!". Furthermore, drugs do affect mood and thinking, but i've never experienced fear, anxiety, or paranoia. Laughter for no reason happens, but only when you've had a LOT to smoke.

Anyways, I gotta go now, i'll elaborate further tomorrow. Please reply with all your rants, i'm ready for them.

[Someone Else]

WD sez: There are other, more healthy ways besides drugs to hang out and have fun with friends. And yes, I read your whole essay.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Well WD its only unhealty when you do it too much. And lemme ask you... Do you hang out with your friends everyday and play video games? Not me, atleast not on a normal week. And besides smoking weed isnt that unhealty as drinking or smoking cigarettes since when you smoke weed you stay stoned for like 2 hours or so without need for more like alcohol and cigarets.

[Someone Else]

I was planning to go out with a friend(s) today but things didn't work out. Turns out it's actually pretty cloudy today, anyway. =P

But ANYWAY. I hear that even if you do the stuff only every now and again, there's still the chance of addiction. Now, no matter what you or Eothain says, I'm never going to do any drugs except maybe alcohol, since I have too much self-respect to risk doing something that could damage me.

[Eugine]

Eothian, I always say I love your arguments but this time… I got to say, that post was long and overdrawn, the points I really don’t like. When our *beloved* scientists do experiments or do research, they don’t do it on one person, they do it on a national level. You can’t use yourself as the *perfect* example on the effects of drugs. You aren’t the *ideal* person, you don’t fit the criteria of everyone. Anyway, so, why are you disagreeing with the scientists this time? Are you finding a flaw in their theorems and findings? If yes, I guess we can say every other theory or facts they produced are flawed.

I’m not speaking on my personal experience on this drug, but I am speaking on what the scientists say, what they research, what they found, what we believe, what the world accepts as *facts*. I am speaking on what drug-takers said, their personal experience, they findings, their emotions, and their feelings toward the drug. I am speaking on what I’ve seen, observed, how I’ve seen people react to it. Even today, I haven’t seen any reason why a person should do Marijuana… It breaks up lives, families, communities, increases crime rate.

Tell me, any *good* person in this world will do drugs, on a wide scale? Or let’s narrow it down to marijuana. Anyone with good intentions in this world will take something that can affect their own body, remember in this world we live in man only cares care about him. If you can damage your own body, the thing you should prize so much, more than anything else in the entire world, what is stopping you from damaging someone else? Maybe the user wouldn’t go extreme to killing, but they can surely reach the level of destruction they created on themselves.

I’m sure Americans are well informed on the hazards of drugs, but let me be scientific on the effects smoking has on the body. When we smoke we release carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and into our body. Maybe the carbon dioxide wouldn’t do much to us, but it does decreases the oxygen carrying capacity the blood’s haemoglobin can carry since the oxygen now has to fight with the carbon dioxide. That’s why you always see smokers coughing or *fighting* for breath. The blood cannot carry the oxygen it was able to. The smoke is even worse for the by passer. When the CO2 reaches the atmosphere it usually bonds with oxygen producing Carbon Monoxide (CO) which is even deadlier to humans since the blood loves CO a few hundreds times more than O2, that is why the by passer usually ends up fainting, getting the lung cancer and the smoker (who intakes the filtered CO2) walks less damaged internally. Who loves the human race so much, or cares about people so much will smoke in front of people? That’s really caring!

Quote

then please explain to me what the f**k you're basing that remarkably senseless comment on? HOW do you know it sucks? according to you, you've NEVER tried it. Don't talk about what you don't know.

Like I mentioned barely, you really don’t have to experience something to know the damage it creates on the one. You can use scientific evidence, other people’s experiences or simply what you observe. None of us here have experience AIDS, Cancer, Bird Flu, SARS, Ebola or any of those deadly diseases, yet we really don’t want them. We never experienced it to know how terrible it is, so we can’t speak cause because we don’t talk about what we don’t know…

How can drugs affect the economy of the country? Tell me, how you could not observe all the drug-centers that is set up around the worlds which mind you are very expensive to operate. Usually professionals are needed to deal with those patients. That right there damages the economy because money has to be diverted from other sectors to this. All the drug trade what is going on, the government spends billions in trying to stop drugs from entering the ports of the country, investigation has to happen on how it reaches the country, and all of this is useless money.

Drugs, not given by a doctor after scientific testing is wrong to use, no matter what.

[Eothain]

Wind Dude, on Mar 12 2006, 10:40 AM, said:

Now, no matter what you or Eothain says, I'm never going to do any drugs

:( dude, nobody's urging you to do drugs. I never said drugs are good...just tried to bring up the point that drugs aren't as bad as some of the stuck-up people in these boards think. Not referring to anyone in particular, but sadly, most people in here aren't very open-minded. Responsible substance use isn't harmful to your health, and i don't care what books or people who haven't touched drugs have to say. "Well, but an article in [insert magazine, newspaper, or science book] said that just once can kill"... well, here's another "fact"...every person has a deifferent reaction to substances. People have gotten seriously ill, and even died, after taking ibuprofen (more commonly known as the pills you take to soothe headaches). Now, most people relate illegal drug use with addiction and abuse. What they don't know, is that there are LOTS of drug users who are responsible, who are not addicts or substance abusers. As a matter of fact, i bet there are far more people who abuse prescription drugs than there are illegal drug abusers :P . And guess what, abuse of ANY drug kills. Abuse heroine, you'll die. Abuse cocaine, you'll die. Abuse alcohol, you'll die. Abuse tylenol/advil/anyofthose, you'll die. Simple as that. Now, ifonly people would realise that....

[Eothain]

@ Eugine:

Quote

You can’t use yourself as the *perfect* example on the effects of drugs. You aren’t the *ideal* person, you don’t fit the criteria of everyone. Anyway, so, why are you disagreeing with the scientists this time? Are you finding a flaw in their theorems and findings? If yes, I guess we can say every other theory or facts they produced are flawed.

...I'm not using myself as the perfect example. I'm just telling you my views from personal experience. I never said their theories were wrong, I just told you my experience was very different from their description.

Quote

I’m not speaking on my personal experience on this drug, but I am speaking on what the scientists say, what they research, what they found, what we believe, what the world accepts as *facts*. I am speaking on what drug-takers said, their personal experience, they findings, their emotions, and their feelings toward the drug. I am speaking on what I’ve seen, observed, how I’ve seen people react to it. Even today, I haven’t seen any reason why a person should do Marijuana… It breaks up lives, families, communities, increases crime rate.

well, i'm not going to fully respond to that, simply because it brings up a whole new topic about what is morally right/wrong, what should be legal/illegal, and as we all know, every person has different views on such issues. However, I am going to repeat a section of my long post for you: you relate drug use to broken families, crime, broken communities. Well, you'll be surprised to know how many drug users are part of extremely functional and successful families. You'll be surprised at how immensely smart most drug users are. You'll be suprised at how many societies that don't outlaw certain drugs have absolutely no substance abuse problems, with really low crime rate relating to drugs. Think about it: the simple fact that something is illegal drives tons of people to do something...just because it's illegal. Drugs don't increase crime rate. Prohibition does, as was proved by the prohibition of alcohol in the United States. Capone, anyone?

Quote

If you can damage your own body, the thing you should prize so much, more than anything else in the entire world, what is stopping you from damaging someone else? Maybe the user wouldn’t go extreme to killing, but they can surely reach the level of destruction they created on themselves.

i wouldn't damage anyone else because there simply isn't any reason for me to do so. Simple as that. People have moral values, you know, drug users or not. The number of people who actually enjoy being harmful to others, enjoy destruction, and have the balls to be such @55holes is quite small.

Quote

I’m sure Americans are well informed on the hazards of drugs, but let me be scientific on the effects smoking has on the body. When we smoke we release carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and into our body. Maybe the carbon dioxide wouldn’t do much to us, but it does decreases the oxygen carrying capacity the blood’s haemoglobin can carry since the oxygen now has to fight with the carbon dioxide. That’s why you always see smokers coughing or *fighting* for breath. The blood cannot carry the oxygen it was able to. The smoke is even worse for the by passer. When the CO2 reaches the atmosphere it usually bonds with oxygen producing Carbon Monoxide (CO) which is even deadlier to humans since the blood loves CO a few hundreds times more than O2, that is why the by passer usually ends up fainting, getting the lung cancer and the smoker (who intakes the filtered CO2) walks less damaged internally. Who loves the human race so much, or cares about people so much will smoke in front of people? That’s really caring!

yet again, your steriotypical nature shows...you "always see smokers coughing or *fighting* for breath". Is that true? does every smoker you know cough frantically and have trouble breathing? Trust me, there are lots of people you know that smoke, yet you're unaware of it because they don't have these symptoms. And about the co2 and co thing...in that case you should hate drivers as much as you hate smokers, perhaps even more, as the amount that cars contribute to air pollution is FAR greater than that of smokers. See? you just have to think outside the box.

Quote

Like I mentioned barely, you really don’t have to experience something to know the damage it creates on the one. You can use scientific evidence, other people’s experiences or simply what you observe. None of us here have experience AIDS, Cancer, Bird Flu, SARS, Ebola or any of those deadly diseases, yet we really don’t want them. We never experienced it to know how terrible it is, so we can’t speak cause because we don’t talk about what we don’t know…

you definitely got me on that one, i give you credit for that. Thanks for bringing up that point.

Quote

How can drugs affect the economy of the country? Tell me, how you could not observe all the drug-centers that is set up around the worlds which mind you are very expensive to operate. Usually professionals are needed to deal with those patients. That right there damages the economy because money has to be diverted from other sectors to this. All the drug trade what is going on, the government spends billions in trying to stop drugs from entering the ports of the country, investigation has to happen on how it reaches the country, and all of this is useless money.

:P thought you meant "ruin a country's economy", that's why i responded that way. Looking back at it, you really did just say "affect".

Quote

Drugs, not given by a doctor after scientific testing is wrong to use, no matter what.

so, if scientists were to ban ibuprofen, birth control pills, and medicines of that sort, you'd consider it wrong to use them? goes back to what i was explaining earlier. Prescription drugs aren't 100% safe, as a matter of fact there are a great number of prescription drugs that cause heart attack. Yet people take these medicines all the time. Why? well, the benefit is just greater than the risk, that's the only reason why, but it doesn't mean that those innocent-looking pills can't kill you.

Wind Dude, on Mar 11 2006, 11:54 PM, said:

WD sez: There are other, more healthy ways besides drugs to hang out and have fun with friends. And yes, I read your whole essay.

did you skip the part where i mentioned all the other types of activities i do with friends for fun?

and sorry for the triple post people, it's just that my other posts were long, so i'm just replying one at a time.

[Someone Else]

Eothain, on Mar 12 2006, 09:44 AM, said:

did you skip the part where i mentioned all the other types of activities i do with friends for fun?

No. I read that, but surely you don't have to smoke it when you do the other things?

[I'm Always BROKE]

Eugine, on Mar 12 2006, 06:07 PM, said:

Tell me, any *good* person in this world will do drugs, on a wide scale? Or let’s narrow it down to marijuana. Anyone with good intentions in this world will take something that can affect their own body, remember in this world we live in man only cares care about him. If you can damage your own body, the thing you should prize so much, more than anything else in the entire world, what is stopping you from damaging someone else? Maybe the user wouldn’t go extreme to killing, but they can surely reach the level of destruction they created on themselves.

You can tell the same about fat people then. Being fat also isnt good for your body and yet fat people in general are not criminals as you describe marijuna users. Comon light up a little. Why do you need to bash people if you haven't even tried or smelled marijuna?

[Eothain]

Wind Dude, on Mar 12 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

No. I read that, but surely you don't have to smoke it when you do the other things?

:P true, i don't have to...but it is nice to be able to enjoy a blunt once in a while. It all comes down to personal choice, really.

[Golden Legacy]

DiddyKong, on Mar 12 2006, 03:26 PM, said:

You can tell the same about fat people then. Being fat also isnt good for your body and yet fat people in general are not criminals as you describe marijuna users. Comon light up a little. Why do you need to bash people if you haven't even tried or smelled marijuna?

Obesity can also be attributed to other factors, namely genetic traits in a particular family line. So, if that's the case, then it's not the person's choice, is it?

Eothain, on Mar 12 2006, 04:10 PM, said:

:P true, i don't have to...but it is nice to be able to enjoy a blunt once in a while. It all comes down to personal choice, really.

That's the same argument I've heard from those defending alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Once in a while? That one chance could have detrimental effects beyond what you may anticipate. Besides, why should you turn to drugs, drinking, etc. just to get away from your problems? That's something I've never understood. You speak of these as though they are a sanctuary for your body, a respite from pain, and just a chance to let yourself go. Are you willing to bring yourself and your body all the way down to that level, the level in which you completely flout your body's well being?

[Eothain]

Golden Legacy, on Mar 12 2006, 07:13 PM, said:

That's the same argument I've heard from those defending alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Once in a while? That one chance could have detrimental effects beyond what you may anticipate. Besides, why should you turn to drugs, drinking, etc. just to get away from your problems? That's something I've never understood. You speak of these as though they are a sanctuary for your body, a respite from pain, and just a chance to let yourself go. Are you willing to bring yourself and your body all the way down to that level, the level in which you completely flout your body's well being?

GL...I'm VERY disappointed in you. VERY disappointed. I really didn't expect that kind of comment, at least not from a moderator. If you're still wondering why i'm saying that, it's because you should READ MY FRIGGIN POSTS BEFORE REPLYING TO THEM. I didn't spend so much time writing overdeveloped essays just so you could bring up a point i already discussed. I already discussed the "one time can be oh-so-damaging" deal. I already discussed how i disagree with the idea that drugs are only used as an "escape" from harsh reality. Go back and read my posts, starting from the first one i made, then proceeding to replies i was made by other members, and finally to the way I answered those replies. Then, proceed to thinking about what i wrote, and THEN, only THEN, reply with something that you still find unsubstantiated, or with some part of the issue that hasn't been discussed. Sorry i'm being an @55, but i just hate having to repeat myself after taking the time to VERY CLEARLY express what i think, and extensively explaining what drives me to sometimes do drugs. IF you read my posts and still have questions, i'll be more than happy to answer them.

[Someone Else]

DiddyKong, on Mar 12 2006, 11:26 AM, said:

Why do you need to bash people if you haven't even tried or smelled marijuna?

I for one have too much self-respect to try something that might harm my body, and could get addicted too. I can't speak for Eugine, but that's my reason. :P

[Golden Legacy]

I did in fact read through your posts, through every single one of them. I'll admit, though, when I made that post, I simply quoted the most recent posts, since they were fairly concise. It was poor discretion, and bad posting principle, and I am sorry for that.

However, don't think for a moment that I am merely an individual who knows the stereotypes of drugs, alcohol, etc. In fact, my school, while regarded as highly advanced, is notorious for all its undetected drug dealings. I've seen it, I've seen my own friends experience it. Believe me, I understand your argument that people don't do drugs because they need an escape, and especially not because they are bad...

Eothain, on Mar 11 2006, 11:58 PM, said:

And let me tell you, needing this "escape" you keep mentioning has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Emphasis on the NOTHING. And let me reiterate: NOTHING. This may be shocking to some of you, but most people that do drugs do it because it's a fun group activity. Some people play sports, or play video games, play music, etc. Well, some people do drugs. And yes, I must admit it is fun. We don't bother anyone, we don't bandalize, nor go into killing sprees around town. Nope. We just get together with a couple of friends at someone's house, go in his/her room, and wake up the next day extremely happy. Nobody gets hurt,or pregnant. Just plain ol' fun.

Again, I've seen a few friends do this, and they're among the most honest, sincere people I know. It's also because of this, among other reasons, that I don't smoke marijuana, or anything like it. The people I know have told me not to try it. They've told me of the ways it has affected their lives, regardless of the amount of control they think they can exert over it.

Relationships that have been broken, grades that have slipped, family problems.

It may not apply to everyone, it may even be a minority. However, the point is, how do you expect me to react in the face of all this? This is not even considering the morals I set for myself, and other such factors.

On one final note: Don't think for a moment I judge people based on whether they do drugs or not. However, surely you might find it an obligation to at least show concern towards such people and to ask them to give it up?

If they're your own friends and family members, wouldn't you want to step in? Likewise, when people around you, whether it's in real life or through a forum, try to explain why not to do it, don't automatically assume that these people are ignorant. I can assure you that I am not, and that I am merely concerned for the well-being of anyone who does it.

This post has been edited by Golden Legacy: 12 March 2006 - 09:32 PM

[Eothain]

HAHAH!!! YESSS!!! that wan't too hard, eh? this makes so much more sense. Now, on to my reply:

Quote

However, don't think for a moment that I am merely an individual who knows the stereotypes of drugs, alcohol, etc. In fact, my school, while regarded as highly advanced, is notorious for all its undetected drug dealings. I've seen it, I've seen my own friends experience it. Believe me, I understand your argument that people don't do drugs because they need an escape, and especially not because they are bad...
Again, I've seen a few friends do this, and they're among the most honest, sincere people I know. It's also because of this, among other reasons, that I don't smoke marijuana, or anything like it. The people I know have told me not to try it. They've told me of the ways it has affected their lives, regardless of the amount of control they think they can exert over it.
Relationships that have been broken, grades that have slipped, family problems.

It may not apply to everyone, it may even be a minority. However, the point is, how do you expect me to react in the face of all this? This is not even considering the morals I set for myself, and other such factors.

which sounds very much like what i said. I said that not everyone uses drugs as an escape, and that not every drug user's life is ruined. However, "not everyone" means just what you have said: some people have had bad experiences, and, being sincere as you describe them, wouldn't want a friend to go through the same unfortunate events, and thus, recommend you against doing it. So basically, i'm making this too redundant cause we're both on the same side when it comes to that. Anyways, it's good that we both agree on that, i guess.

Quote

On one final note: Don't think for a moment I judge people based on whether they do drugs or not. However, surely you might find it an obligation to at least show concern towards such people and to ask them to give it up?

If they're your own friends and family members, wouldn't you want to step in? Likewise, when people around you, whether it's in real life or through a forum, try to explain why not to do it, don't automatically assume that these people are ignorant. I can assure you that I am not, and that I am merely concerned for the well-being of anyone who does it.

Don't worry, you've yet to prove to me that you "judge a book by its cover", or that you're ignorant. So, until you do so, I shall not think that of you that way :P . I never assume things. I learned not to assume the hard way, so i don't do it anymore. Now, about the "obligation" to show concern, or feeling the necessity to help someone...that's where we differ. I'm a VERY tolerant person. Perhaps too much. I let people do their own thing. Their life is theirs to do what they may with it. We're different, every single one of us, and thus have very different views, opinions, and moral values, and i respect that. Which is also why I try to influence people's choices as little as possible, if at all. Even if a friend were to do something i thought was wrong, it may not seem wrong to them, so i wouldn't "bother" them. The most I'd do is, IF they asked what i thought about [insert issue], give them input, tell them what i know from personal experience (if applicable), but i'd leave it up to them to decide. What i'm trying to say is, I'll never try to stop anyone from doing something. I'll never say "NO, DON'T do that". To some, I may seem like an extremely uncaring person, but that's just the way I am. It's not that I don't care, I just think that you, as an individual, have freedom of choice, and the natural right to exercise it, thus, it would be unfair if i were to interfere with the process in any way. Now, I don't wanna drag this anymore than I already did, but i'll say this: I think the only thing I'd try, with all my strength, to prevent someone from doing is committing suicide.

[Neon]

Use it if you must.
But please, use it safely.

[Sea of Time]

I agree, if you think it will make you more popular or you just like to get high, whatever. Just be aware of the risks (and there are risks).

[Eothain]

Sea_of_Time, on Mar 15 2006, 01:18 PM, said:

I agree, if you think it will make you more popular or you just like to get high, whatever. Just be aware of the risks (and there are risks).

<_< *sigh* it's really pointless to try to explain things...listen: do you SERIOUSLY think people smoke weed because it makes them popular? THINK, darn it, THINK. If anything, it'll make them UNpopular, as is very evident from the post we've seen from most non-smokers. The majority of people don't find smoking appealing, so how would it make one popular? anyone who can apply common sense wouldn't try to achieve a "popular" status by doing things which have the exact opposite effect.

[Sea of Time]

I know that. I agree with you. I was just naming reasons people might smoke. Not naming reasons they should.

[Eothain]

anyways...this topic seems to have died all of a sudden...and it happens with most topics i post in...i make two or three posts and then the topic dies... <_< not fair

[Eugine]

^ LOL

In the most of the countries where crime is on a massive increase smoking does make you *cool* I think. The majority of them do it because their friends do it and because the community is beginning to accept it especially in the urban areas.

[Eothain]

Eugine, on Mar 15 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

^ LOL

In the most of the countries where crime is on a massive increase smoking does make you *cool* I think. The majority of them do it because their friends do it and because the community is beginning to accept it especially in the urban areas.

i dunno man...it really depends on the people who don't smoke...some consider it "cool", some don't... to me, "cool" has nothing to do with it...although i smoke. Basically, what i'm saying is, i don't see how it's "OMFG sooo KEWL!", but i don't see what makes it "EEEEEWWWWW!!! that's soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo gross!!" either

[Sea of Time]

Eothain, it's not you, it's the topics that actually require smart posts. So, it's actually a compliment to you for reviving these topics.

[Eothain]

Sea_of_Time, on Mar 16 2006, 02:12 PM, said:

Eothain, it's not you, it's the topics that actually require smart posts. So, it's actually a compliment to you for reviving these topics.

well...i don't see much of the "reviving"...but i'll take your word for it <_<

[Iloverpgs]

You know I have more respect for this forum now.

You guys give really good point but I can see that most of you don't know to much about marijuana.

It's all about the facts not emotion.

[Split Infinity]

I thought I might just point something out which you all seem to have missed. Drug abuse is responsible for 70% of juvenile crime, and when you consider how much juvenile crime there is...you get my point. Don't let it happen to you, or anyone else.

[Iloverpgs]

Hahahaha do you know what you get for possesion of marijuana or even like a bong or pipe?


A friggin fine. It's a misdemeanor so it aint bad at all.

The only way you would get locked up is if you have more then an OZ I believe but I may be wrong.

[pHantOm]

I have alot of friends that smoke weed, but I dont do it myself and I have never tried it. I dont intend to either, Alcohol is one thing, but smelling bad and kissing an ashtray is something Im not into. But I dont judge others by it, its your choice.

[Sea of Time]

@WD: A nice way of saying what Split said is that it's shocking that many people would find smoking the right thing to do. After all the facts saying it's bad, why would you still do it?

[Eothain]

Sea_of_Time, on Mar 17 2006, 01:12 PM, said:

@WD: A nice way of saying what Split said is that it's shocking that many people would find smoking the right thing to do. After all the facts saying it's bad, why would you still do it?

as I said before, it's personal choice. No one can tell you what "bad" or "good" is, you have to decide for yourself, basing on what you believe is good or bad according to your moral values. Whoever needs other people to tell him/her what good/bad or right/wrong is, simply sucks.

[Someone Else]

Eh, I wouldn't judge someone simply because they smoke marijuana. But, I would judge someone who smoked cigarettes because I really, REALLY hate having to breathe in their stupid smoke.

[Eothain]

Wind Dude, on Mar 17 2006, 10:21 PM, said:

Eh, I wouldn't judge someone simply because they smoke marijuana. But, I would judge someone who smoked cigarettes because I really, REALLY hate having to breathe in their stupid smoke.

what if they were..."respectful", for lack of a better term, and not smoke around you, although you knew they'd light up as soon as you left...would you still "judge" them?

[Someone Else]

If that was the case, it would be okay with me. Although I would still wonder why they smoke, as it still is bad for you. Worse than marijuana. XD

[Eothain]

Wind Dude, on Mar 17 2006, 11:58 PM, said:

If that was the case, it would be okay with me. Although I would still wonder why they smoke, as it still is bad for you. Worse than marijuana. XD

fo shizzle ma nizzle XD. I just wish a lot more people would think that way. I mean... people find out you smoke and they just lose respect for you, no matter how good of a person you are. Sad.

[Aquamarine]

Quote

fo shizzle ma nizzle XD. I just wish a lot more people would think that way. I mean... people find out you smoke and they just lose respect for you, no matter how good of a person you are. Sad.

Whoa, wait, they find out you smoke and becuase of that they loose respect for you? It's totaly the other way round where I come from. Over here it's COOL if you smoke. I don't smoke, because I've got astma(sp?) and also I hate cigarettes, but most of my friends smoke and it doesn't bother me too much.

Anyway, a few of my good frends intake marijuana often(though I don't) and they are really good guys, so I haven't got anything against weed.

[Sea of Time]

@WD: I agree with you that cigarette smokers are worse, because at least the marijuana smokers have to do it out of sight, the cigarette smoke is much worse because, yes, you have to breathe it in.

[Eothain]

Sea_of_Time, on Mar 18 2006, 03:16 PM, said:

the cigarette smoke is much worse because, yes, you have to breathe it in.

well....technically you don't have to breathe it in...you could just...not breathe at all. Of course, i don't think anyone's stupid enough to do that :P

[Eugine]

^ Never knew you had the funny in you :P.

My father is a smoker (cigarrette peeps) and trust me I know how terrible it is to be around smokers... It's terrible, even when he leaves the house to smoke and returns the smell on his clothing is terrible. I usually just depart to my room...

This post has been edited by Eugine: 18 March 2006 - 08:34 PM

[Someone Else]

Ow, that sucks.

Well, after listening to Eothain's and ILRPG's arguments, I decided that marijuana isn't so bad. I still would never consider doing it myself though. But should it be legal..? Eh, I don't think so. It's healthier to live without it, and legalizing it would make people do it in public, turning into what cigarettes are today. As long as it's done "privately", I think it'd be just fine.

[Eothain]

i don't think it should be legalised...i mean...it's easy enough to acquire >.>

[I'm Always BROKE]

Its legal in the Netherlands so yay! :P

[Neon]

Um, if marijuana was legalized it would slot into the same laws as regular smoking. No underage smoking, no smoking in enclosed public places, etc.
It would basically become the third social drug alongside alcohol and cigarrettes.

[Eothain]

and if it were to be legalized, the government would probably put high taxes on it too. To tell you the truth, i'd rather not have it legalized :P

[gsninja]

Same here. Why legalize something else that's going to be bad for your health?

Also, if one of my firends ever started smoking/taking marijuana, I would ditch them right away, without any remorse. I HATE having to put up with smoke, especially since every time I go to Italy, I smell smoke everywhere. Smoking was banned in the bars, but everyone still smokes outside.

If my friends ever started smoking, I would now ditch them only if they didn't smoke in front of me @.@

[Eothain]

gsninja, on Mar 22 2006, 08:17 PM, said:

Same here. Why legalize something else that's going to be bad for your health?

:P i see you haven't been reading my posts, eh?

Quote

If my friends ever started smoking, I would now ditch them only if they didn't smoke in front of me @.@

i don't get it...so, if they smoked in front of you, and you had to breathe their smoke...you wouldn't ditch'em?

[gsninja]

Oh, I worded it wrong XD I meant I would ditch them if they DID smoke in front of me. I need to double-check my writing/typing next time XD

[Neon]

Quote

Same here. Why legalize something else that's going to be bad for your health?

Oh sure, and following on from that logic we can make cars illegal cause they kill (they can be used as a weapon like a gun which is illegal or used to gas us all with CO just like marijuana which is illegal too!), and even better, ban all knives so people don't slice their wrists open! yeah, freedom of choice ftw.

[Eothain]

Neon, on Mar 23 2006, 04:44 AM, said:

Oh sure, and following on from that logic we can make cars illegal cause they kill (they can be used as a weapon like a gun which is illegal or used to gas us all with CO just like marijuana which is illegal too!), and even better, ban all knives so people don't slice their wrists open! yeah, freedom of choice ftw.

thank you, Neon, that's something i've been trying to say all the wile...only i can't put it in such a short statement. Good job.

Quote

Oh, I worded it wrong XD I meant I would ditch them if they DID smoke in front of me. I need to double-check my writing/typing next time XD

haha, i knew that before replying to you, but i just felt like messing around with you a bit.

[gsninja]

Haha XD

Well, marijuana should be banned becouse it does nothing that can be good for you. At least, not that I know of.

[Eugine]

You see Neon, the difference with marijuana and cars is the fact that public transport is compulsory in our modern lifestyle. Yes, practically everything has disadvantages, but as long as the advantages outshines the disadvantages we'll have to go with it.
Man ultimate earthbound aim is to improve it's quality of life by improving technology and conquering new lands... Marijuana does neither, knifes does this (knifes are used it cutting practically everything)...

Marijuana has no advantage as far as I'm concerned, if you got problems you go to your parents or best friend... That's all... Enlighten me on the advantages.

[gsninja]

I doubt marijuana has any advantages, and probably never will have any, unless you attempt genetic engineering on it and add something that's good @.@

[Eothain]

gsninja, on Mar 23 2006, 10:39 AM, said:

Haha XD

Well, marijuana should be banned becouse it does nothing that can be good for you. At least, not that I know of.

X_X...umm...it can't be banned...it's already illegal. Hmm, and you mention that it does "nothing that can be good for you"...think about it: if absolutely nothing good came from smoking it, do you think people would do it? if you wanna find out about the "good" effects, and the fun part of marijuana, read the first couple of posts i made.

Quote

Marijuana has no advantage as far as I'm concerned, if you got problems you go to your parents or best friend... That's all... Enlighten me on the advantages.

ENOUGH! I've friggin had it!! nobody, among the people who admitted they smoked, said they did it to escape their problems. And as for the "advantages", or "good" part of smoking, read previous posts. Heck, you should already know, you've already read them. But it won't do any good, you're too narrow minded to accept that it can be "not so bad", and even a nice group activity, as i mentioned. GODDAMNIT people, stop bringing up all these arguments that have already been thoroughly discussed over and over again!! specially the "escape" one.

[Eugine]

The *good* effects it creates on a person is just a scapegoat for the real problems which persists after taking the drugs. Cocaine, ecstasy, and all of those illegal drugs seems to have a *good* effects on a person, because why else would they take it? But anything which causes you to be *depended* on it for your daily functioning is not good for the body; things like that needs to be controlled.

I really don't mind the plant where Marijuana is from. I do believe though, that scientists should do extensive scientific research on the plant causing the medicine made from it advantages to outshine the disadvantages tremendously.

This post has been edited by Eugine: 23 March 2006 - 06:18 PM

[Eothain]

Eugine, on Mar 23 2006, 07:14 PM, said:

The *good* effects it creates on a person is just a scapegoat for the real problems which persists after taking the drugs. Cocaine, ecstasy, and all of those illegal drugs seems to have a *good* effects on a person, because why else would they take it? But anything which causes you to be *depended* on it for your daily functioning is not good for the body; things like that needs to be controlled.

you'd be very wise to accept the fact that not everyone is an addict. As a matter of fact, very few drugs are actually addictive. Yet, it seems you want to keep on believing that everyone who does drugs, does it indiscriminately, and is an addict. Not every drug user is dependant on a drug for daily functioning. Need proof? I'm proof. But, of course, unless my name appears in the list of scientific test subjects in your friggin science book, you won't believe me.

[gsninja]

Eothain, to tell you the truth, I laughed my ass off when I read your reply XD Too narrow-minded to see it's "not so bad"? Look, I don't care what you saidbefore , there's a couple more things I need to lay out:

The only reason people smoke/take marijuana is either because of peer pressure (which is extremely pathetic) or they're just really stupid and want to escape from their problems. Yes, escape. This that goes for everyone who smokes/takes marijuana. The "good" effects are nonexistent; they're simply part of the false information people make up to get people to use it. Eothain, I really think that your thoughts about the "good" effects of marijuana are just a bunch of trash. Don't go off saying stuff like that, because it's just NOT TRUE.

K, I'm done speaking n.n

[Eothain]

gsninja, on Mar 23 2006, 07:34 PM, said:

Eothain, to tell you the truth, I laughed my ass off when I read your reply XD Too narrow-minded to see it's "not so bad"? Look, I don't care what you saidbefore , there's a couple more things I need to lay out:

The only reason people smoke/take marijuana is either because of peer pressure (which is extremely pathetic) or they're just really stupid and want to escape from their problems. Yes, escape. This that goes for everyone who smokes/takes marijuana. The "good" effects are nonexistent; they're simply part of the false information people make up to get people to use it. Eothain, I really think that your thoughts about the "good" effects of marijuana are just a bunch of trash. Don't go off saying stuff like that, because it's just NOT TRUE.

K, I'm done speaking n.n

then i'm sorry, i'll consider you just as much of a narrow minded, stuck-up, prejudiced person as those who made posts like yours. You can learn the effects of smoking from a book, but the reasons why people smoke, you have absolutely no say in that. When you try, and have your own reasons for it, then I'll let you tell me that the peer pressure/escape issue is "simply not true". Otherwise don't tell me not to "go off saying stuff like that, because it's just NOT TRUE."

[gsninja]

Dude, you're just getting more ridiculous and funny n.n As I said, I don't give a cr*p about what you say. I KNOW people do this because of peer pressure. I KNOW they do it because they're really stupid. Why? Because I've seen people take marijuana for those reasons and I've heard people give their reasons about taking marijuana for those exact reasons. It should be obvious to you that I don't personally know every reason why people smoke/take marijuana. Do you honsestly think I would waste my time with idiots like those asking every single one of them why they chose to do this? Also, do you think I would tell you not to spout bullcr*p like this if I didn't really know a couple reasons marijuana is taken or how bad marijuana is?

So, I'll say it again, even if it pisses you off further. The "good" effects are simply part of the false information people make up to get people to use marijuana. Don't say things about the "good" effects, because it's just NOT TRUE.

I'm still laughing over how you're calling me narrow-minded, etc. Eothain, it's people like you that can make me laugh the most n.n

[ForteGX]

You're going to get yourself in trouble, GSN. x.X Don't instigate a war here...

And Eothain, I hate to say it, but if people aren't using it for medicinal or spiritual purposes, they're using it just to get high. =/

This post has been edited by ForteGX: 23 March 2006 - 07:07 PM

[gsninja]

Yeah, I've realized @.@

Sorry, Eothain. I just don't see how marijuana can be good (besides medical/spiritual purposes as Forte said). Let's just drop the whole argument bit and be friends, k? =D

[Eothain]

well, i sure as hell am not the one getting pissed off here. The only problem is that you think i'm trying to get people to smoke. I'm not, just thought you should know that. I'm just trying to get people to see the other side of the coin (as funny as that may sound to you). And also, you can't discredit other people's views and regard yours as fact. Nobody's opinions are facts. You think people will jump off a bridge if they're told to, i don't. We just have different view points.

and one more thing: you think you know who you are. Give yourself a couple of more years. You'll change.

This post has been edited by Eothain: 23 March 2006 - 07:23 PM

[gsninja]

Hey, hey, I'm not forcing you to believe my opinions or anything. I'm only trying to show you what I think. And of course no one's opinions are facts. If they were facts, then why are people still constantly having different opinions of everything?

Also, I never said you were trying to get people to smoke. You're entitled to your beliefs, just as everyone else is to theirs.

[Eothain]

gsninja, on Mar 23 2006, 08:29 PM, said:

Hey, hey, I'm not forcing you to believe my opinions or anything. I'm only trying to show you what I think. And of course no one's opinions are facts. If they were facts, then why are people still constantly having different opinions of everything?

Also, I never said you were trying to get people to smoke. You're entitled to your beliefs, just as everyone else is to theirs.

makes sense ^_^ although it's a bit contradictory to what you posted earlier.

[gsninja]

Yeah, I guess parts of my responses were contradicting what you were saying. I need to check back on these things sometimes n.n;

[Someone Else]

It sounded a bit like you were TRYING to make an arguement for a sec back there GSN... you got all defensive out of nowhere.

[gsninja]

Did I? Well, just to clear things up, I didn't purposely try to make an argument D:

[Neon]

Just because Marijuana is currently illegal doesn't mean it's somehow more addictive or unhealthy than alcohol or cigarettes. People drink alcohol all the time and not everyone is addicted, the same can be said for marijuana. Similarly, alcohol is also lethal in high doses etc. People die from alcohol poisoning all the time.

When it comes to alcohol, we just trust people to be responsible with how they use it. Can't we do the same with marijuana?

EDIT: omg, after 2 years of gssf i finally break the 1000 post mark :P

This post has been edited by Neon: 24 March 2006 - 08:44 PM

[Split Infinity]

Not everyone gets addicted to it, but some people DO. A lot of people. When that happens, you get drug dealers. When that happens, you get junkies. When that happens, it ruins your life.

[Neon]

I think you missed the point.

People get addicted to alcohol too. The reason it's worse with marijuana is simply because it's illegal. For people addicted to alcohol all they have to do is walk down the road to the local bottle shop and get their fix. People have ruined their lives with alcohol, pissing all their cash against the wall and drowning out all their problems.
If marijunana was legal, you wouldn't get drug dealers. Well, you would, but the 'drug dealers' would be the cigarette counter at your local supermarket and not some random guy at a party :P.

[Split Infinity]

There's a reason why it's been outlawed in some many countries.

[Neon]

And there's also a reason why the legality of this drug is contested so much more than other drugs...

[Golden Legacy]

To return to this topic, I respect the sentiments of people like Eothain. However, I still don't see the need to actually smoke it in the first place.

I mean, regardless of the health risks or benefits, forgetting all the issues of morality that have been brought up, just why actually do it in the first place?

This might seem like a trivial, not sophisticated question, but really ponder it; why actually get into it in the first place?