Enter, Kosovo
#1
Posted 17 February 2008 - 06:52 PM
http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7249034.stm
Kosovo has officially declared its independence from Serbia! The jubilation of its people, I can only imagine what it must be like. However, it appears that Belgrade is contesting the decision (obviously), and Russia too hasn't recognized the move.
#2
Posted 17 February 2008 - 06:58 PM
Anyway, I personally disagree with the independence. First of all, Kosovo homes many of Serbia's national relics, and I think the Albanians have no right to enter Serbian territory and claim it as their own. I honestly believe it will be better for the Albanians to return to Albania and develop their own country, because honestly there will always be some hostility between the Serbs and Albanians.
But then, I hardly see why Serbia should hold on to something that is longing for freedom.
#3
Posted 18 February 2008 - 10:42 AM
#4
Posted 18 February 2008 - 11:48 AM
#5
Posted 18 February 2008 - 11:48 AM
#6
Posted 18 February 2008 - 11:57 AM
#7
Posted 18 February 2008 - 12:06 PM
#8
Posted 18 February 2008 - 12:08 PM
My dad said that he doesn't know why Serbia has such a problem with it since so many countries have been breaking off in that area or something...he mentioned yugoslavia and then I got lost x.x
#9
Posted 18 February 2008 - 12:12 PM
Kosovo has always, ALWAYS been Serbian territory. Through history, countless Serbs have died defending this part of our country from many a conquerer. Kosovo houses many of the greatest Serbian monasteries and churches.
Kosovo doesn't deserve independence in any way. They are not their own people; Some are Serbs while most are Albanians. They do not have their own culture, or language, or their own flag for God's sake.
As I said, in the past years many more Albanians have been living there than there have been Serbs. But unrightfully so. The Serbs there are terrorized day in and day out by the Albanians. Of course, you guys won't be able to hear that information anywhere else, because America and the EU doesn't want anybody to know.
Now don't get me wrong: I couldn't care less whether Kosovo belonged to Serbia, Albania, Peru or any other frickin' country, or whether it's a country of its own for that matter. For centuries, Kosovo has brought people only death and more death. For some reason, it seems to be the perfect place for wars and killings. Serbia doesn't need that, so I don't understand why everyone here wants it to remain a part of our country, since if it did, it would only continue the fight between us and the Albanians. It's just that Serbs have this false sense of honour, and they want the homes of their ancestors to remain within the borders of their country.
Having said that, I'm going on a protest march through Belgrade on Thursday that our politicians have called all Serbs to attend. Not because I want Kosovo back, like most people here, but because I'm sick of ****ing America and the ****ing EU thinking that they have ANYTHING to do with our affairs, and acting like they're doing this for the good of all people on the Balkan, when actually they have their own reasons for doing this.
If a Mod edits any part of my post which, by the way, can't be insulting to anyone, it will be breaching of the so-called democratic "freedom" and "human rights".
#12
Posted 18 February 2008 - 12:24 PM
k I'm gonna go ahead and assume aqua knows like 50x more about this than I do.
that also explains why they were waving british and american flags instead of their own..
#13
Posted 19 February 2008 - 12:40 PM
KEEP SERBIA UNITED! Kosovo is a historical Serbian territory and Albanians are only migrants there!!! They already have a state...in Albania!!! - Anonymous, Germany
U.N. Law is the backbone of modern world's stability. Demagogy about this "solution" and accusation of "Serbian violence" is pure lies. I've just returned home from the streets. I've just seen the "violent protests" - I've seen fifty high school kids shouting "Serbia!", being followed by 5 (that's FIVE) police cars, ready to take them to the precinct. While on Kosovo there's HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ALBANIANS SHOOTING AND LEGALISING THEFT OF 10,887 km² (4,203 sq mi), complete with natural resources, and infrastructure worth dozens of billions of dollars. There's no reciprocity here. No standards. No truth. No justice. Not even logic, beyond the "might makes right" sense. - Nikola Avramov, Serbia
So now Puerto Rico and Hawaii are free too?????? - Zorica Lukovic , Canada
We don't want Taliban in Kosovo. - Bart Pawliszewski, California
This is a shame for the world. To recognize a quazi-state led by terrorists, and slap Serbia, a perennial ally to the west in the face again. A shame! And to see that the Serbs are being bashed on again as angry nationalists even now when they are robbed of their culture and history is ubeleivable. The only thing that I can say is that KARMA works in weird ways.....so even though your conscience appears clear at this moment, it will soon be clouded and stained - Anonymous, California
#15
Posted 19 February 2008 - 01:16 PM
So far, Serbia has made their ambassy in America vacate, and members of the French and British ambassy have been requested to leave in the next 48 hours.
As far as my opinion goes, Kosovo is better of with Serbia in my opinion. I don't see any reason for them to have or get their own nation. Unnecessary problems should always be avoided.
#16
Posted 19 February 2008 - 01:45 PM
That is, the Albanians were there before the Serbs through Skanderbeg, and that the Albanians always outnumbered the Serbs.
And man, read this
http://balkaninsight...main/news/7979/
Anyway, I personally take back my first statment. I'm not sure if I'm for or against the independence x.x
Oh and ihk, he is quoting someone from the petition I assume. Posting it here shows that he agrees with the satement though...
#17
Posted 19 February 2008 - 02:27 PM
That's my main point on this.
#18
Posted 19 February 2008 - 02:29 PM
#19
Posted 19 February 2008 - 02:36 PM
Why do you think the EU was founded, we're more or less becoming one country economically speaking.
#20
Posted 19 February 2008 - 02:46 PM
It is now only 'officially' independent.
#21
Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:08 PM
.eugine, on Feb 19 2008, 08:45 PM, said:
That is, the Albanians were there before the Serbs through Skanderbeg, and that the Albanians always outnumbered the Serbs.
I don't know what the hell you were reading, but how about simply checking out the Medieval History of Kosovo. Of course, there are other nations mentioned(such as the Bulgarians and the Byzantines), but probably a couple of simple sentence explains it all: During this time Kosovo became the cultural, religious and political heart of the Serbian Kingdom. Numerous Christian monasteries were erected, such as the Visoki Dečani monastery. This was before any Albanians set fot on Kosovo.
ihatekraden, on Feb 19 2008, 08:10 PM, said:
I apologize, I do not think that. Heck, I don't even know enough about Islam to call it "war and xenophobic". I don't even know what that quote's doing there, I probably wasn't paying attention and accidentally copied it.
#22
Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:12 PM
#23
Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:19 PM
Kosovo was a part of Illyrian Dardania before the Roman conquest. (this is the very first sentence)
The Illyrian Dardania (click the link on the wiki) are direct desendents of the Albanians, and this was the first civilization of Kosovo x.x
#24
Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:38 PM
.eugine, on Feb 19 2008, 10:19 PM, said:
Kosovo was a part of Illyrian Dardania before the Roman conquest. (this is the very first sentence)
The Illyrian Dardania (click the link on the wiki) are direct desendents of the Albanians, and this was the first civilization of Kosovo x.x
What are you even talking about? They don't mention anywhere in that link that the Dardanians were ancestors of the Albanians. All it mentions is that the name Dardanoi and Dardania perhaps have some Albanian roots, but those two words apparently may also come from the Greek language.
#25
Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:48 PM
Read this Aqua.
Yeah, I admit this is debatable unless they find some DNA evidence, but atleast the Albanians have the upperhand in the "We were there first!" debate.
I do admit that the historial and cultural value Kosovo has to Serbia is more than the Albanians though...
Hence why I said, I'm undecided. It's always great to read stuff like this, so during my free time I'll do more research.
#26
Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:49 PM
.eugine, on Feb 19 2008, 09:46 PM, said:
It is now only 'officially' independent.
So, what's the point in the title change?
From what I've heard they were even independent enough to start having there own ethnic minorities there, and even giving them less rights then "kosovians."
#27
Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:54 PM
To accelerate its EU membership?
In any case, the Serbs will have to accept Kosovo as an independent state since not doing so will only hinder their EU membership acceptance.
#28
Posted 19 February 2008 - 04:08 PM
Not only that, but the Kosovian Albanians aren't even saying that they've lived there since forever like the Serbs are, which might mean they don't believe their ancestors were on Kosovo before the Serbs.
Anyhow, I'm glad you're putting up a good fight Eugine. This is interesting.
And yeah, as much as I dislike saying this, I'm almost 100% sure that Kosovo WILL be independent, and that anything Serbia or Russia or China do is useless.
#29
Posted 19 February 2008 - 04:09 PM
Sure, big people like France, Germany and Britain recognize them as a country, but Spain doesn't, the Netherlands and Finland are still doubting.
I do hope though, when the Netherlands decides to recognize Kosovo, they give a better reason then the US or France, Germany and Britain. They didn't give a good to any reason at all.
#30
Posted 19 February 2008 - 04:19 PM
Anyway, most likely the EU will accept Kosovo since the countries you listed has the most world influence.
Anyway, Aqua the same Wiki has my claims. I admit, it isn't conclusive though x.x
#31
Posted 19 February 2008 - 05:42 PM
http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7252874.stm
Most recent breaking news, Kosovo Serbs have set fire to two border points in protest. I also strongly recommend clicking on the link that shows a map of Kosovo's ethnic breakdown (it's at the bottom of the page).
#32
Posted 20 February 2008 - 07:00 AM
Indeed it is true that Serbian civilians have burned down the border. And I agree doing that is sad and stupid. However, I fully understand why they're doing it. Heck, I would do similar things and feel great joy if I knew this wasn't going to give Serbia a bad name, and if I had the time, and if it were safe, and if it was in my nature, and if it simply wasn't a retarded thing to do. You see, we are absolutely sick of everyone in the world taking away our territory and making us seem like the bad guys.
Of course, our politicians are pleading for the couple of thousands of Serbs that feel the need to destroy to stop doing so. Yes, I know what you're thinking, I'm sure your TV stations and newspapers have been saying that ALL eight million inhabitants of Serbia have been going on destruction sprees, and not only the couple of thousand of war-loving idiots that can be found in every country of the world. I'm also sure that the world is unaware of the daily calm protests and marches that take place in almost every city and town of Serbia, where people simply walk through the streets.
Our portrait as the evil of this world has been going on for years and years. America simply wants to extend it's power into Europe, so they have to find somebody to blame for every single thing since the Second World War. And the EU is playing along, because they're nothing but ass-kissers.
And perhaps that ethnic breakdown on BBC is true, because Albanians have taken over Kosovo by terrorizing the Serbian inhabitants there. Of course, the world(and especially Americans, like you) won't know about many of these things, because the powerful countries of the world don't want you to know. However, there are definitely more than 10% Serbian inhabitants there. I probably won't be able to prove this though, because America and the EU certainly wouldn't allow any big TV stations or websites to have the true information. Also, another "inaccuracy" in that BBC text is that those four Serbian monasteries are the only ones. Maybe they're the largest, but they're definitely not the only ones. There are many, many more, all of which house Serbian history, tradition and culture.
I'm holding a Serbian newspaper in my hands, in which there are two pages about the burning of the Kosovo border. It's very similar to the BBC news link you provided, but unlike the BBC text, it doesn't show us Serbs in an evil light and show the Albanians as the poor, oppressed peoples. It doesn't present us in a good way either, it simply states the facts, which BBC could try doing too.
Also in today's paper is a story of a young lad, only 20 years old, called Vladan Dragovic. He died a couple of day's ago in an accidental fire in Novi Sad, a city at the north of Serbia, far away from Kosovo, which is to the south. He was born in and used to live in Pec, a Serbian town in Kosovo. However, after the 1999 bombing of Serbia, in which NATO "protected" the "oppressed" Albanian people(and bombed Serbian hospitals and schools, by the way), Albanians came to his house and slayed his mother and grandmother. Of course, he had to run away and live somewhere else in Serbia because the same would have happened to him had the Albanians found him.
#33
Posted 20 February 2008 - 01:38 PM
As for:
Quote
Again, I can't speak form first-hand experience, which is where you are coming from. But are you saying perhaps that the ethnic Albanians form Kosovo don't have a long history on the land? That they haven't been there for centuries, settled down and growing? Terrorist acts or violence aside (I'll take your word for it), but I don't see why the Kosovo's have to be fully denied independence - autonomy, at the very least, seems to be in order, just because of the nearly homogeneous demographic there.
#34
Posted 20 February 2008 - 05:49 PM
BBC News said:
Regards to your third paragraph.
Anyway, Aqua, why exactly should Serbia deny Kosovo's independence?
#35
Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:01 AM
.eugine, on Feb 21 2008, 12:49 AM, said:
Regards to your third paragraph.
Anyway, Aqua, why exactly should Serbia deny Kosovo's independence?
Why should they recognize them?
Spain won't recognize them because there afraid the basks will want their own country. Because of this situation, I'm quite surprised that Ireland IS willing to recognize them, since they've obviously had their fair share of seperatist movements.
The EU is trying to make Europe, economically unified and with a few political things. If countries go a seperate themself, the political unification will become harder, the econimical side of the story won't suffer that much, just needless complicate things.
#36
Posted 21 February 2008 - 01:25 PM
Do you think America would so easily let Texas or any other state become independent? Do you think Greece will let Cyprus be independent, or Canada will let Quebec get away with it? Will Spain allow Basque to be independent?
Anyhow, I hope you're all watching CNN! Ha ha, this is a good day to be Serbian. My friends and I were on that protest, but we went home before the attacks on the embassies had started. Man, I'm proud of the people who destroyd the U.S. embassy. I wish I could shake their hands.
LONG LIVE RUSSIA!
#37
Posted 21 February 2008 - 01:28 PM
Water Dude, on Feb 21 2008, 03:25 PM, said:
Do you think America would so easily let Texas or any other state become independent? Do you think Greece will let Cyprus be independent, or Canada will let Quebec get away with it? Will Spain allow Basque to be independent?
I can see where the argument is coming from here. However, Kosovo's declaration of independence isn't seen by all its supporters as a breaking away from Serbia - it's seen as the final dissolution of the former Yugoslavia and the final establishment of the end of that era.
#38
Posted 21 February 2008 - 01:48 PM
I assume Aqua's talking about this.
I can't say I know everything about the story but it seems strange that Kosovo would want to break away. It doesn't seem like there's much reason for doing so. It would be like if Cornwall broke away from England.
#39
Posted 21 February 2008 - 03:37 PM
Water Dude, on Feb 21 2008, 03:25 PM, said:
Wow Aqua. Honestly, communism sucks big time.
And um, when they are Serbians saying "Long live Russia!", you begin to understand why Kosovo wanted to be free from Serbia... Plus, isn't your President/Prime Minister pro-America/EU?
And I think that is a really bad analogy Me111 honestly.
#41
Posted 21 February 2008 - 10:45 PM
Aqua, I am sorry, but Serbia has lost lots of credibility in my eye for attacking the US embassy. Under no circumstances under international law are you able to attack an embassy x.x
What exactly will Serbia achieve from this?
#42
Posted 21 February 2008 - 10:46 PM
Quote
What exactly will Serbia achieve from this?
WHO,WHAT,WHEN,WHERE, and WHY?
#43
Posted 21 February 2008 - 10:50 PM
Me111 posted it few posts ago. I was just lazy to click it >>
#44
Posted 21 February 2008 - 10:57 PM
#45
Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:01 PM
#46
Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:03 PM
#48
Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:08 PM
Sorry, but GL read this article on Embassy. It is illegal, and very disrespectful. I know Aqua is going to get angry at me, but peaceful protests are good, and I actually encourage, but doing this is terrible x.x
This isn't going to get Serbia anywhere.
#49
Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:11 PM
Golden Legacy, on Feb 21 2008, 11:06 PM, said:
sorry I am used to everyone here being from somewhere other than America. lol
I still think it is wrong, I don't care what kind of feelings they have they shouldn't have attacked our embassy. Our people definitely wouldn't attack their's and I know our police forces wouldn't let anything like that happen.
#50
Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:15 PM
I don't support the attacks, nor do I feel that Kosovo should be denied independence - however, you will never hear me condemn another race or nation, regardless of the circumstances, and I personally not only understand where the Serbian people are coming from (their raw emotion, again something we can't hope to understand), but I will even say that the acts are justified (in some ways) simply because this is something that affects them so deeply, strikes so truly, that nothing less could be expected.
#51
Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:25 PM
#52
Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:28 PM
Also, read this article
"There were lesser attacks on other diplomatic missions, but none was entered. Germany said its embassy was attacked, Croatia protested over damage and local agencies said missions of Britain, Turkey and Bosnia were also hit."
This is terrible man.
Also, Kosovo do not belong to Serbia anymore. The Kosovan Prime Minister has already stated Kosovo will protect all Serbian historal and cultural monuments.
#53
Posted 22 February 2008 - 01:35 AM
It's like if Israel had to give up Jerusalem. There's a lot of Israel's history and lineage in there. The same goes for Serbia and Kosovo.
#54
Posted 22 February 2008 - 01:52 AM
Toasty, on Feb 22 2008, 03:35 AM, said:
It's like if Israel had to give up Jerusalem. There's a lot of Israel's history and lineage in there. The same goes for Serbia and Kosovo.
Don't you dare bring up the example of Israel and try to make it seem that the Jews are the only people with a history and lineage in Jerusalem. It's a special case, the Palestinians have just as long a history and just as strong a lineage in Jerusalem as any other people, and the same holds true for the Promised Land as well - they have just as much reason and purpose in fighting for it.
That's a debate for another topic, of course.
#56
Posted 22 February 2008 - 02:52 AM
Two groups, who want their own country, fighting over a certain piece of land that holds a religious/historical worth.
Of course you do let out a lot of the details, other reasons and such. But you could stereotype it down to that.
#57
Posted 22 February 2008 - 04:10 AM
#58
Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:40 AM
#59
Posted 22 February 2008 - 06:12 AM
Gio, on Feb 22 2008, 12:40 PM, said:
The world disagrees with it? Bugger off.... America and the bigger EU countries aren't the world.
The violent protest did attract the attention, but in a negative way.
A peaceful protest doesn't attract attention because that's not "fun" media to start off with, and that a lot of countries are just showing one side of the picture at the moment.
#60
Posted 22 February 2008 - 06:18 AM
Kosovo deserves its independence.
#61
Posted 22 February 2008 - 08:49 AM
.eugine, on Feb 22 2008, 01:18 PM, said:
Kosovo deserves its independence.
Not the whole EU supports it dagflabbit. Only 3 of the bigger countries.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7249909.stm
#62
Posted 22 February 2008 - 07:08 PM
#63
Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:55 AM
Once again, I'm sure all of your local TV stations and newspapers said that all five hundred thousand protestors attacked the embassies. Of couse, that's far from true. Only about 300 of those people destroyed and burned stuff. The rest, like myself, simply listened to what some famous Serbian people had to tell us, then we walked through the town(this was before those 300 guys went around destroying stuff) and finally listened to prayers by our priests. Although I fully agree with and respect the people who destroyed the U.S. embassy, I didn't take part in that.
Our police DID defend the embassies, but they couldn't get to the American embassy right away because of the protestors. It took only a very short time for them to ruin the building.
And yes, our President is pro American/EU. However, that doesn't mean I or any other Serb has to be; and we aren't. I WANT Serbia to be in the EU, but only because I want our economy to be better, and that's the reason that our president wants Serbia in the EU. Russia has always been our deariest ally, and it's obvious this won't change since the EU doesn't have a mind of its own; it only listenes to what America tells it to do.
#64
Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:46 PM
Just for knowledge sake - Our regional TV stations and newspapers only cover regional news (specifically CARICOM members and observing countries). I have to depend on the international stations for international news.
#65
Posted 23 February 2008 - 04:52 PM
Water Dude, on Feb 23 2008, 11:55 AM, said:
Once again, I'm sure all of your local TV stations and newspapers said that all five hundred thousand protestors attacked the embassies. Of couse, that's far from true. Only about 300 of those people destroyed and burned stuff. The rest, like myself, simply listened to what some famous Serbian people had to tell us, then we walked through the town(this was before those 300 guys went around destroying stuff) and finally listened to prayers by our priests. Although I fully agree with and respect the people who destroyed the U.S. embassy, I didn't take part in that.
Our police DID defend the embassies, but they couldn't get to the American embassy right away because of the protesters. It took only a very short time for them to ruin the building.
And yes, our President is pro American/EU. However, that doesn't mean I or any other Serb has to be; and we aren't. I WANT Serbia to be in the EU, but only because I want our economy to be better, and that's the reason that our president wants Serbia in the EU. Russia has always been our dearest ally, and it's obvious this won't change since the EU doesn't have a mind of its own; it only listens to what America tells it to do.
The only place I have heard about all of this is on this site here and the links that have been posted. I think it is great that a group of people want to be free. I don't know much about what is going on over there. I just know that my countries embassy got attacked and that ticked me off a bit. I know there are two groups of people that protested, the violent protesters and the peaceful protesters. I respect the fact that you were among the peaceful group.
#66
Posted 23 February 2008 - 06:17 PM
Water Dude, on Feb 23 2008, 09:55 AM, said:
Russia never really quit being communist. They said they did, and they made it look like it, but nothing ever really changed. Take a good hard look at it's more recent (90's to current) history and it's pretty clear. Putin can be thanked for a lot of it.
#67
Posted 07 April 2008 - 07:54 PM
#68
Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:59 PM
The EU has to make a stand, or at least the countries individually, and they need to be able to reason their opinion or actions. That's what annoys me the most in this entire issue.
As for Kosovo being independent? I don't really care what happens to them or there anymore. They're pretty insignificant to us. I only oppose the idea of making your own nation, thus dividing, when there's no need to divide. The only thing it does is create differences, spread hate and such. Long story short, it wasn't worth the effort.
#69
Posted 08 April 2008 - 03:09 PM
Do you see how great USA is (well, was, to piss Toasty off x3) because they demanded their independence? I hardly see why Kosovo should remain part of Serbia when Belgrade would not be looking towards the best interest of the Kosovans...
#70
Posted 07 October 2009 - 01:02 PM