[Maximus]

Yep, it's me again, some of you may not remember me but I registered as a member a while back and i'm back. Anyway, just a couple days ago, I started a new game in Golden Sun 1. I noticed that at the beginning, saturos and menardi walk out and there is a cutscene showing thenm talking and they say "We're the only ones that survived the big accident." Well, I was just asking why Saturos and Menardi have to act so hostile. I mean, I understand what they wanted to do in saving prox and all, but the don't need to go killing 14 year olds about it. Then, when I was in the sol sanctum, I actually noticed thatat the beginning of the game in Sol Sanctum, you are at the most improteant part of the game. If kraden hadn't been so wierd about wanting to go further in the sanctum, prox would have been saved and nobne of the comotion would have happened.

[Golden Legacy]

the answer...

Saturos and Menardi has just sufferred great losses from Sol Sanctum, their so-called "raiding" party (which actually had noble intentions). The Elders of Vale had always gone against them and didn't support them... they couldn't have two Valean boys telling that to the village!
It was dangerous enough as it is...

Killing might have been too far... but they probably had to... it was pretty sad when I learned the truth in GS2...

Besides... they never killed Isaac or Garet -_-

[DarkIris]

I always found how weird it was that they attacked me. I was like, "Hey, I'm just a kid! A stupid snooping kid!......DON'T HURT ME!!!!" and then they did...

[mjc0961]

And then they hopped away like bunnies. What the hell was that about?

[Golden Legacy]

The point is they never kill Isaac and Garet... and they probably felt they had little choice (see my previous post)...

You may have hated Saturos and Menardi for that, but when you play GS2 and realize their original intentions... you can't help but admire them (at least I did... so noble and selfless!)

[mjc0961]

Golden Legacy, on May 4 2004, 11:00 PM, said:

You may have hated Saturos and Menardi for that, but when you play GS2 and realize their original intentions... you can't help but admire them (at least I did... so noble and selfless!)

Yes. Attacking 14 year olds that had no idea what you were talking about is so noble. And stealing and taking hostages is noble too. People like that are my heroes. </sarcasm>

Seriously, they could have tried other methods first. Well, at least they saved Felix, Kyle, and Jenna's parents (whatever their names where). So they aren't totally evil. I just think that their methods are questionable.

[Golden Legacy]

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So they aren't totally evil. I just think that their methods are questionable.

I suppose they wouldn't mind beating up a bunch of young adolescents and such (btw, I explained why they might have done that in a previous post). But yeah, they had noble intentions... and along the way got to be sort of evil...

another way to explain it is being "rough around the edges", Saturos and Menardi...

[mjc0961]

I still don't see anything noble about stealing and attacking children.

[Golden Legacy]

did you even read my post? I stated that they had been denied by the Vale Elders for so long (for that purpose I keep referring too...)... They had just sufferred from the trap of Sol Sanctum... the last thing they needed were two Valean boys telling everybody whom they had seen...

[mjc0961]

That doesn't give them the right to do what they did. And besides, the elders aren't allowed to mention anything to outsiders. Hell, they can't even use Psynergy when visitors come to Vale. And if S and M (me lazy) had started talking about the stars and such, the people from Vale would probably have to kill them or something. Why? Because that's what they've been taught. To protect the stars. Would you attack your teacher for teaching you? I would hope not, unless school really annoys you. But I hope you get my point.

[Enoch]

Or perhaps they realy are just strait up punks who wanted all the power for their' own reasons besides saving Prox.
Mabey!

[mjc0961]

Yeah. Just like Alex.

[Enoch]

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Though they were originaly sent to save prox, they still don't strike me as nice people. They want all the power and they are strait up gangsters, for a crew of two.

[mjc0961]

See. I was just playing it again and when Kraden says that S and M said things about Sol Sanctum, Garet's first reaction was to go get the elder and tell him what was going on. Also they say that they didn't even know that the Elemental Stars were in Sol Sanctum. And the people of Vale are supposed to protect that even though they didn't know that it was there.

Also if you go around at the beginning, you'll find books and people that tell you not to use you Psynergy around visitors because they are supposed to protect the secret of Psynergy.

[Golden Legacy]

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That doesn't give them the right to do what they did. And besides, the elders aren't allowed to mention anything to outsiders. Hell, they can't even use Psynergy when visitors come to Vale. And if S and M (me lazy) had started talking about the stars and such, the people from Vale would probably have to kill them or something. Why? Because that's what they've been taught. To protect the stars. Would you attack your teacher for teaching you? I would hope not, unless school really annoys you. But I hope you get my point.

Which is precisely my point! Had Saturos and Menardi's raiding party and intentions been discovered by the people of Vale, they would have had to take action against them! Which is probably the reason they had to attack Isaac and Garet... to prevent them from spreading any information that they had heard!
I, of course, am not totally supporting what they did, but they had to do it. Besides, Weyward was at stake!

[Zaffa Dot Xom]

If you're going to complain about something, complain about Micheal Jackson's screwed up criminality.

Honestly, you should be able to know why they've done it. Saturos and Menardi are enraged by the vauge consequences of Weyard's slow, painful destruction; starting with Prox. They were probably really worried and at the same time annoyed by the loss of their homeland to some stupid, eroding rift to the north. They both have overriding pride; like Saiyans have. It just blinds them, making them rush into dangerous obstacles without even thinking of a dire plan. Just think of Garet; he rushes into things without even deciding, believing matter over mind just does the trick anyway.

[Golden Legacy]

so... are you against me or supporting me?
I agree with everything you said, so I hope it was the latter... they did it for Weyward, an action that would later have been redeemed for the sake of Weyward... poorly worded, sorry...

[Zaffa Dot Xom]

Golden Legacy, on May 6 2004, 07:46 PM, said:

so... are you against me or supporting me?

Neither, I'm just shedding some light on this matter, although I do agree on what you've said before. Sorry for the inconveince

[Ivan1555]

Satorus and Menardi are the traders of Prox. All they wanted to do was to have true power, not to save Prox, when Isaac had triggered the volcano eruption, that's when Prox was suffering so bad( I think) and Satorus and Menardi never knew their home town has suffering. And in TLA, Karst in Madra is looking for her sister to tell her what is happening to Prox, and If Isaac knew what was happening to Prox and stuff before they killed S and M, they would have saved Prox, Felix's parents and even Saturos and Menardi, but if S and M didn't take it to the Max (Fusion Dragon) none of this whole battle Karst and Agatio would have never happened (the only thing that will remain the same is the battle with the Doom Dragon and such). I hope that explains alot...

[Enoch]

I don't think myself that S and M are traders nessesarily though they had their own intentions, but I'm sure that they were also doing it somewhat for prox.

[mjc0961]

If they did, they could have easily explained that to the elders of Vale. I honestly don't think that S and M knew or cared about Weyard eroding. I mean, Kraden, Felix, and Jenna knew nothing about it. Kraden had to find out for themselves. I'm sure that somewhere along their travels, S and M would have told them.

[Golden Legacy]

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they could have easily explained that to the elders of Vale. I honestly don't think that S and M knew or cared about Weyard eroding.

If you go to Prox, some people there say (or if you mind read them) that the Elders of Vale REFUSED TO LISTEN. That implies that there had been eariler attempts (before Saturos and Menardi) to try and convince them. Saturos and Menardi only set out toward Sol Sanctum knowing that it was the only way...
So obviously, they did care about Weyward eroding. It's just that, in the first game, the unleashing of Alchemy seemed preposterous...

[Zaffa Dot Xom]

Golden Legacy, on May 7 2004, 05:24 PM, said:

So obviously, they did care about Weyward eroding. It's just that, in the first game, the unleashing of Alchemy seemed preposterous...

All quite true. Yet, if the elders never listened, they probably had good reason not to unleash Alchemy; it's because the Wise One said so.

If you had a giant, floating rock with one eye, and it told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it? Honestly, the Wise One would've solved the problem right before Alchemy was sealed away, just like he did to Alex; give the power to someone else (like Isaac for instance).

[mjc0961]

Golden Legacy, on May 7 2004, 10:24 PM, said:

So obviously, they did care about Weyward eroding. It's just that, in the first game, the unleashing of Alchemy seemed preposterous...

I highly doubt they even knew, and I will find the evidence to prove it. I know it's in there somewhere!

[Golden Legacy]

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Honestly, the Wise One would've solved the problem right before Alchemy was sealed away, just like he did to Alex; give the power to someone else (like Isaac for instance).

I totally agree with you, Zaffa Dot Xom. If you recall, at the end of TLA, Kraden said that the Wise One wanted to "give a test"... to see if the heroes had the courage to overcome all the means and save Weyward. I have to say, when I heard that, I was touched...

and mjc0961... I'm waiting :P

[Sol.Warrior]

I defintely think Saturos and Menardi were NOT traders, and knew all along about Porx eroding and wanted to stop it, but I accept all your points.

[Golden Legacy]

I don't think Saturos and Menardi were traitors either... I support your view.

[mjc0961]

I'm looking! Even though I think that the fact that Felix, Jenna, and Kraden knew nothing about it is enough to proof that S and M only wanted the power of Alchemy for themselves. They had no reason NOT to tell Felix about the world eroding, so why wouldn't they? Because they didn't know, that's why!

[Golden Legacy]

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I'm looking! Even though I think that the fact that Felix, Jenna, and Kraden knew nothing about it is enough to proof that S and M only wanted the power of Alchemy for themselves. They had no reason NOT to tell Felix about the world eroding, so why wouldn't they? Because they didn't know, that's why!

They knew all right. If you would recall from GS1, Saturos and Menardi (and Alex, for that matter), said that Kraden was essential to their quest (which was to free Alchemy and SAVE Weyard). They had to kidnap him due to his knowledge. The only reason they decided to take Jenna with them was because of Isaac and Garet: since they (the Valeans) believed that unleashing Alchemy would DESTROY Weyard, Saturos and Menardi knew that they would come after them...

And plus, Felix did know about Weyard eroding away :blink:

[mjc0961]

Felix knew AFTER Kraden told him and Kraden didn't know until sometime after the second game started. And at that point they were all alone.

And your "they need Kraden for his knowlegde" thing doesn't help you. Because, like I just said, Kraden knew nothing about Weyard eroding, so if they did know, how could Kraden help them? The answer: he couldn't. They probably just wanted someone smart to help them with the puzzles. Because like Alex said, they couldn't solve the puzzles by themselves. Hell, they couldn't even move two statures to create a hole to drop a third statue into. Honestly, how hard is that to do? Not very.

[Golden Legacy]

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Felix knew AFTER Kraden told him and Kraden didn't know until sometime after the second game started. And at that point they were all alone.

how do we know it was in TLA? Felix and Kraden, it's obvious, knew at the VERY LEAST the beginning of TLA about Weyard eroding. Remember, from the end of GS1? "The beacons must still be lit" or something of the sort... Felix said that after the defeat of Saturos and Menardi (before they fused). Why didn't he just concede? Because he knew about Weyard eroding! How exactly he found out (he and Kraden) is anybody's guess (GS3 anybody?)

[mjc0961]

Golden Legacy, on May 9 2004, 11:58 PM, said:

Remember, from the end of GS1? "The beacons must still be lit" or something of the sort... Felix said that after the defeat of Saturos and Menardi (before they fused). Why didn't he just concede? Because he knew about Weyard eroding! How exactly he found out (he and Kraden) is anybody's guess (GS3 anybody?)

No. Because they were holding his parents hostage. THAT is why Felix opted to continue the quest at the end of GS1. NOT because he knew about Weyard's impending doom. But because HE WANTED TO FREE HIS PARENTS!

[Enoch]

I feel that Felix was tring to free his parents but also he was informed about waywerd eroding and S and M were probobly doing for multiple reasons as well. I'm sure they had to have noticd their world shrinking around them. Don't the inhabitants of prox live for a long time as well. Another thing, S and M had a boat that looked like the ones from Lemuria so mabey prox people lived for a very long time and they must have noticed the world shrinking so S and M must have had double intentions.

[mjc0961]

I highly doubt that Prox had the same effects of Alchemy as Lemuria did. And no one will ever know for sure where their boat came from.

[Golden Legacy]

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I highly doubt that Prox had the same effects of Alchemy as Lemuria did

What do you mean? All throughout Prox (including the Village Elder and the "mayor"), they talk about how their civilization was once powerful and great! Whether they could live like the Lemurians did is anybody's guess, but clearly, when Alchemy was commonplace, they were a thriving people.

Which brings me back to Saturos and Menardi. That was their intention. Do you remember the envoys the elders of Prox sent? Well, the mission of Saturos and Menardi in Sol Sanctum was the response to Vale's rejection of Alchemy, and the fact that it was necessary for Weyard's sake...

[Nick Presta]

It's good that Saturos and Menardi acted to violent in the game. It fueled Isaac's revenge and made him defeat them.

[Enoch]

Prox was taking jurastic measures due to the fact that vale wouldn't give. I deffinitaly think that before prox started to shrink, they were probobly fairly matched to the power of Lemuria.
My opinion has taken a complete 180 in this section.

[mjc0961]

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What do you mean? All throughout Prox (including the Village Elder and the "mayor"), they talk about how their civilization was once powerful and great! Whether they could live like the Lemurians did is anybody's guess, but clearly, when Alchemy was commonplace, they were a thriving people.

All of Weyard was a great civilization with Alchemy. What I meant was the slow passing of time and other effects of Lemuria (drink this water! you're healed!)

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Which brings me back to Saturos and Menardi. That was their intention. Do you remember the envoys the elders of Prox sent? Well, the mission of Saturos and Menardi in Sol Sanctum was the response to Vale's rejection of Alchemy, and the fact that it was necessary for Weyard's sake...

1. What the hell is an envoy?
2. There still is no proof that Saturos and Menardi knew anything about the state of Weyard. Even if they didn't want to claim the power of Alchemy for themselves, the only other thing that they could have hoped to do was stop Prox from going off of Gaia Falls. But that still doesn't justify their methods.

[Enoch]

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All of Weyard was a great civilization with Alchemy. What I meant was the slow passing of time and other effects of Lemuria (drink this water! you're healed!)

Yeah, but Agatio and Karst said that prox was especialy powerful and I'd beleive that prox and Lemuria where the super powers of their time and mabey they both had those cool psynergy powered boats.
Mabey!

[mjc0961]

I don't remember anyone saying that Prox was powerful and I wouldn't believe it anyway. Their finest warriors are four of the most pathetic bosses I've ever defeated.

[Enoch]

I am almost positive that is what Agatio and Karst were talking about when you encountered them at champa,...... or was it jupiter lighthouse? One of the two.

[Golden Legacy]

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Which brings me back to Saturos and Menardi. That was their intention. Do you remember the envoys the elders of Prox sent? Well, the mission of Saturos and Menardi in Sol Sanctum was the response to Vale's rejection of Alchemy, and the fact that it was necessary for Weyard's sake...

1. What the hell is an envoy?
2. There still is no proof that Saturos and Menardi knew anything about the state of Weyard. Even if they didn't want to claim the power of Alchemy for themselves, the only other thing that they could have hoped to do was stop Prox from going off of Gaia Falls. But that still doesn't justify their methods.

An envoy... think of it as a messenger. The Elders of Prox sent out a few to negotiate with the people of Vale about the Elemental Stars and Alchemy... and the declining state of Weyard.

Doesn't justify their methods? The sake of Weyard is at stake! Drastic measures must be resorted to... Okay, I'll admit, kidnapping Jenna and holding Felix and her parents hostage in Prox... that might have been unnecessary, and cruel yes...
But in the end, they wanted to save Weyard. They never wanted the Power of Alchemy for themselves...

[mjc0961]

I'm still waiting for you to show some actual evidence that they even knew about the state that Weyard was in. Cause I think I have plenty that says that they didn't know.

[Enoch]

There is no deffinite evidence that they knew but the fact that there was originaly a whole prox search party sent after Sol Sanctum, and they relized that prox was shrinking, and they had a psynergy powered boat all leads to that fact.

[MysticWarrior]

I'm not following any of this. I know this is something about Saturos and Menardi going to Sol Sanctum for some purpose, but I kinda lost track. Can anybody explain, please? =D

EDIT: 1000 POSTS!!! PAR-TAY! BRING THE CONFETTI!

[mjc0961]

Enoch, on May 13 2004, 03:53 PM, said:

There is no deffinite evidence that they knew but the fact that there was originaly a whole prox search party sent after Sol Sanctum, and they relized that prox was shrinking, and they had a psynergy powered boat all leads to that fact.

What? Are you mentally handicapped? So they have a Lemurian ship. That means that they are shrinking? HELL NO! THAT'S NOT WHAT IT MEANS!!! Wow. That's the dumbest thing I've heard anyone say in this arugment so far. If you don't know what you're talking about, please, for the love of whatever religious entity you worship, shut the hell up. We are trying to discuss this intelligently.

And MW, we are debating why Saturos and Menardi wanted to bring back Alchemy. I believe that there are many reasons to say that they didn't know anything about the state Weyard was in at all and were only doing it for their benefit. Be it to steal the power of Alchemy for themselves, or just to save their own village. But I strongly believe that they didn't know anything about Weyard shrinking.

[Golden Legacy]

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I'm not following any of this. I know this is something about Saturos and Menardi going to Sol Sanctum for some purpose, but I kinda lost track. Can anybody explain, please? =D

lol, sure MysticWarrior...

well, we are aruging about whether or not Saturos and Menardi knew about the declining state of Weyard, and whether they sought to unleash Alchemy for reasons of pure greed or in an attempt to save Weyard (or at the very least, Prox)
I say the latter (that they wanted to save Weyard) and mjc0961 says they wanted power (and I am still waiting to hear that evidence... I will have mine soon in the form of screenshots...)

and Congrats! 1000 posts! ^_^

[mjc0961]

Okay. That's cool. Put words in my mouth. I am proving that they had no idea about the state of Weyard. And I've already given plenty of proof which has destroyed a lot of the things you said.

[MysticWarrior]

Okay, thanks, at least now I know what this topic is about now. Also, I think Saturos and Menardi knew about the world shrinking. Who wouldn't in Prox?

[mjc0961]

Then why didn't Felix, Jenna, and Kraden know? How hard would it be for them to tell them that instead of holding their parents hostage? Not very. But yet, they needed to hold so many people hostage to keep their quest going. Therefore their intentions could not have been entirely pure.

[MysticWarrior]

mjc0961, on May 13 2004, 04:49 PM, said:

Then why didn't Felix, Jenna, and Kraden know? How hard would it be for them to tell them that instead of holding their parents hostage? Not very. But yet, they needed to hold so many people hostage to keep their quest going. Therefore their intentions could not have been entirely pure.

Like I said in another topic, it's for gameplay value.

[mjc0961]

...

What kind of crappy argument is that?

[MysticWarrior]

You must be in a bad mood today, you've been insulting a lot of people. Can you lay off it a bit?

Anyways, I'm not the maker of GS, so how would I know?

[mjc0961]

I'm not trying to insult anyone. I'm just saying that your argument is bad. Saying that it's just for gameplay is not only stating the obvious, but doesn't help either side. Everything we argue will come from the gameplay. So it's really a poor argument.

[MysticWarrior]

Well, because, first of all, we are already debating in the first place, so I had to state the obvious to end it. Secondly, you shouldn't have posted the first message. If it was the second message everyone would be okay with that.

[mjc0961]

You didn't end it by saying that. Well, unless Golden Legacy decides to forfit after seeing that. :)

[Enoch]

This really is an opinion based subject where there is no deffinite answers to. I don't feel much like posting much more especialy when people get angry over someone else's opinion.


Especialy when people have to resort to name calling.

[mjc0961]

There's answers. You just have to find them.

[Golden Legacy]

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You didn't end it by saying that. Well, unless Golden Legacy decides to forfit after seeing that. 

hahahahahahahahaha :lol: that was almost funny :)

and you claim to have given evidence supporting your arguement. Where it is, one has yet to see (and don't give me anything about it being in a previous post... you have given no direct proof from the game).

I am collecting the evidence to support mine. I ask that you wait...

[mjc0961]

Uhm, hello, I've given plenty of proof so far. And I've also successfully countered some of your arguments. Like when you said "Felix countinued Saturos' mission because of Weyard." which is wrong because Felix was only trying to save his parents at that point and had no knowledge of Weyard. If Saturos knew, why wouldn't he have told Felix? Or Kraden? Surely there could be no harm in telling them the reason why they have done what they did. The most logical reason for why Saturos didn't tell them, is that Saturos himself did not know about Weyard.

[Golden Legacy]

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Uhm, hello, I've given plenty of proof so far. And I've also successfully countered some of your arguments. Like when you said "Felix countinued Saturos' mission because of Weyard." which is wrong because Felix was only trying to save his parents at that point and had no knowledge of Weyard. If Saturos knew, why wouldn't he have told Felix? Or Kraden? Surely there could be no harm in telling them the reason why they have done what they did. The most logical reason for why Saturos didn't tell them, is that Saturos himself did not know about Weyard.

I don't recall saying that (trying quoting exactly). And we know that Kraden had informed Felix of the true condition of Weyard, so Felix defintly (spelling?) knew about it, at least by the end of GS1, or the beginning of GS2.

And mjc? you have completely ignored EVERYTHING I said about Prox elders sending out envoys to Vale.

Also, I won't deny that Saturos and Menardi had underlying motives to their quest: their main intention was to save Prox, but they had other goals as well (which, as you have mentioned, may not have been "pure").
Can we at least agree there?

[mjc0961]

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And we know that Kraden had informed Felix of the true condition of Weyard, so Felix defintly (spelling?) knew about it, at least by the end of GS1, or the beginning of GS2.

No. He didn't. And Kraden didn't. The first time Kraden even mentions talking to Felix is after you leave Champa. That is pretty far into GS2.

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And mjc? you have completely ignored EVERYTHING I said about Prox elders sending out envoys to Vale.

That's because you never told me what this "envoy" is.

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Also, I won't deny that Saturos and Menardi had underlying motives to their quest: their main intention was to save Prox, but they had other goals as well (which, as you have mentioned, may not have been "pure").

I agree that they wanted to save Prox. But I do not agree that they knew about Weyard.

And as for that thing you asked me to quote...

the post you wanted me to quote said:

Golden Legacy, on May 9 2004, 11:58 PM, said:

Remember, from the end of GS1? "The beacons must still be lit" or something of the sort... Felix said that after the defeat of Saturos and Menardi (before they fused). Why didn't he just concede? Because he knew about Weyard eroding! How exactly he found out (he and Kraden) is anybody's guess (GS3 anybody?)

No. Because they were holding his parents hostage. THAT is why Felix opted to continue the quest at the end of GS1. NOT because he knew about Weyard's impending doom. But because HE WANTED TO FREE HIS PARENTS!

[Golden Legacy]

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I agree that they wanted to save Prox. But I do not agree that they knew about Weyard.

... all this time I thought you meant they only wanted the Power of Alchemy ;) very strange...

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No. He didn't. And Kraden didn't. The first time Kraden even mentions talking to Felix is after you leave Champa. That is pretty far into GS2.

Kraden knew all right. At the beginning of TLA, in Venus Lighthouse, the conversation with Alex and Jenna... both Alex and Kraden mentioned the Golden Age of Man, and how Alchemy was the key. Clearly, Kraden knew about this, and it was his intention (he probably had changed his early perspectives about not lighting the beacon in the time frame between he being kidnapped in Sol Sanctum and Venus Ligththouse).

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That's because you never told me what this "envoy" is.

here is a post I made explaining it (you might have missed it...)

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An envoy... think of it as a messenger. The Elders of Prox sent out a few to negotiate with the people of Vale about the Elemental Stars and Alchemy... and the declining state of Weyard.

Doesn't justify their methods? The sake of Weyard is at stake! Drastic measures must be resorted to... Okay, I'll admit, kidnapping Jenna and holding Felix and her parents hostage in Prox... that might have been unnecessary, and cruel yes...
But in the end, they wanted to save Weyard. They never wanted the Power of Alchemy for themselves...

you find that out in Prox. And maybe they didn't know about Weyard (even though I still say so), but they defintely knew about Prox. And saving Prox would have meant saving Weyard (inadvertantly, in a sense)... Right?

[mjc0961]

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Kraden knew all right. At the beginning of TLA, in Venus Lighthouse, the conversation with Alex and Jenna... both Alex and Kraden mentioned the Golden Age of Man, and how Alchemy was the key. Clearly, Kraden knew about this, and it was his intention (he probably had changed his early perspectives about not lighting the beacon in the time frame between he being kidnapped in Sol Sanctum and Venus Ligththouse).

Just because Alex knew that alchemy would create a golden age of man does NOT mean that he knew that Weyard was eroding and that Alchemy would save it. The same applies to Kraden.

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And saving Prox would have meant saving Weyard (inadvertantly, in a sense)... Right?

Yes, but they didn't know that. I actually doubt that they thought that lighting the beacons would save Prox... Why would they think that... Hmm... Perhaps they thought that with the power of Alchemy, they could their town from falling off of Gaia Falls? I dunno...

[Golden Legacy]

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Just because Alex knew that alchemy would create a golden age of man does NOT mean that he knew that Weyard was eroding and that Alchemy would save it. The same applies to Kraden.

Actually, the opposite is true. In that same conversation, I think Alex says (I'm paraphrasing) "I want to see that age AGAIN". Clearly, he was implying that Weyard was declining, or at least not what it once was.

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Yes, but they didn't know that. I actually doubt that they thought that lighting the beacons would save Prox... Why would they think that... Hmm... Perhaps they thought that with the power of Alchemy, they could their town from falling off of Gaia Falls? I dunno...

They could WHAT their town? Prevent? Cause? j/k...
they may not have known about Weyard, but they were doing it, at least, for Prox... to make it rise again as a thriving civilization...

[mjc0961]

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Actually, the opposite is true. In that same conversation, I think Alex says (I'm paraphrasing) "I want to see that age AGAIN". Clearly, he was implying that Weyard was declining, or at least not what it once was.

I don't think he said that. You'd better use exact quotes if you plan to quote them. Plus he was most likely BSing them so that they didn't find out his true plans of gaining the power of Alchemy.

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They could WHAT their town? Prevent? Cause? j/k...
they may not have known about Weyard, but they were doing it, at least, for Prox... to make it rise again as a thriving civilization...

Yeah... Prevent....

But how did they know that lighting hte beacons would make their town thrive? Based on what Karst said on Jupiter Lighthouse, I think that the plan of the people of Prox might have been to use the power of Alchemy to conquer Weyard and then they could live wherever they wanted and not be stuck in some stupid little frozen town that was about to go off of the egde of the world!

[Enoch]

If someone was noticing that there town was going off of the edge of the world, then wouldn't it give them reason to beleave that this could be occuring elswhere? Any educated person would have such thoughts in their head.

[Golden Legacy]

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If someone was noticing that there town was going off of the edge of the world, then wouldn't it give them reason to beleave that this could be occuring elswhere? Any educated person would have such thoughts in their head.

Precisely (thank you Enoch). Mjc, whether Saturos and Menardi had originally intended to save all of Weyard is debateable, but it is certain that they at least were doing it for Prox... unleashing Alchemy would have saved Prox and Weyard.

now, for what you requested...

In Venus Lighthouse (beginning TLA)

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Jenna: Alex, why do you want to see the beacon lit so badly?
Alex: Oh, so it's my turn to answer questions, is it?  ;) Once, Alchemy was commonplace throughout this world... With this power, mankind worked up wonders across the land...
Kraden: The Lost Age of Man...
Alex: I want to see that world restored once again...

ok, Alex might have been covering up his true intentions (he probably was), but he was clearly implying that Weyard was diminishing and not what it once was. He was traveling with Saturos and Menardi as well.

[Enoch]

That and I could have sworn that I heard Agatio and Karst mention that somewhere in the game. It has to be known to them or they wouldn't know anything about anything. If they know about sol sanctum, then they have to know somewhat about the rest of the world.

[Golden Legacy]

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That and I could have sworn that I heard Agatio and Karst mention that somewhere in the game. It has to be known to them or they wouldn't know anything about anything. If they know about sol sanctum, then they have to know somewhat about the rest of the world.

Yeah, I thought so too... I'm pretty sure Agatio or Karst mentioned (or somebody else mentioned about them) that they knew about this...

also, weren't Agatio and Karst the Proxians (spelling?) that continued Saturos and Menardi's mission? I think the only reason they appeared as the Antagonist in the game was due to revenge... but ultimately they would have wanted to salvage Weyard, or at least Prox...

[Enoch]

Good thought, Golden Legacy. I do beleive that they were sent to finnesh S and M's mission. And so there you have it. Some strong points don't you think. I think the only reason they appeared as the Antagonist in the game was due to revenge as well, but ultimately they would have wanted to salvage Weyard, or at least Prox also.

[ETJ]

Alex is possibly the only TRULY evil one then

[Enoch]

In that case perhaps so, but I don't think that even alex ever intended to harm anyone. He just wanted true power and simply rule over everyone. And I'm sure that he was one of the first foreigners to know about Sol Sanctum.

[Golden Legacy]

I personally feel that Alex and the Proxians both knew about Sol Sanctum, as Saturos and Menardi's raiding party targeted it...

Possibly, Alex was afterwards... we are never sure when he decides to pursue the power of Alchemy (we know at least before Mercury Lighthouse)...

[ETJ]

Enoch, on Jun 2 2004, 07:53 AM, said:

In that case perhaps so, but I don't think that even alex ever intended to harm anyone. He just wanted true power and simply rule over everyone.

:agitated: :( :!:
that sentence doesn't make sense- to rule over everyone IS evil

anyone mentioned Luna sanctum in the city of Anemos?

[Enoch]

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that sentence doesn't make sense- to rule over everyone IS evil

I wouldn't mind ruling over everyone, but that dousn't make me evil. I would intend on ruling fairly. That and Alex never harmed anyone. In fact he healed both parties at jupiter lighthouse. I think he would be more persuaded to preform good deeds for people.

[Water Assassin]

I shall say this as my opinion (long breath)

Somebody mentioned the fact that S&M didn't figure out the simple puzzle at SS.
They are Mars Adepts. Therefore it is questionable whether they are able to use move. You need move to move the stature into the hole :unsure: .

I prefer to think that S&M were more of the Tom Clancy Rainbow Six type of people. They simply didn't want the Vale Elders they had betrayed their trust. Mind reading one Valian tells you that the Elders had agreed to allow S&M to stay in the village prior to the eruption.

Quoting Alex (I love quoting Alex) S&M lacked the cranial capacity to figure out the secrets of the lighthouses. They kidnapped Kraden for this. Jenna was taken simply because they couldn't leave a witness. They rescued Felix and abducted Sheba so they could acess all of the lighthouses. In a way this helped later in the game for Sheba to uncover her past and Anemos.

Garet, Issac adn the Valians werent to know about the world collapsing because they rarely ventured outside of the village. Also, The Wise One had 'brought up' the village under the impression that alchemy was bad.

Can someone plz explain the following story twists:

What is the Stone of Sages Kraden mentioned in SS?
Why do Proxians look akin to lizards?
If the Mars star was cast into the lighthouse, how did the some of the Golden Sun end up in Issac?

[Enoch]

I agree with the valeans not venturing outside Vale. There was no way to know about the world crumbling around them. And so Vale does nothing but defend the stars and hinder the world from delelopment. tsk tsk tsk <_<

[Sol's Djinn]

Do you think there's a Luna Sanctum somewhere? Or in the future?

[Enoch]

Perhaps, that might make sense. If there was it would make way for a sequal. I would prefer there was.

[TheOnlyJaz]

So you mean the could be a Golden Sun game but instead it'd be Silver Moon or something coz that sounds cheesy. I think Camelot didn't put that mucht hought into why Saturos and Menardi failed the first time around I think they just took the easy way out in making them fail.

[Golden Legacy]

Hmm...
This may sound strange, but I always believed that "Luna Sanctum" is actually Anemos Sanctum... the idea of Contigo and the Anemos People (the crater next to it...)...

And yeah, Saturos and Menardi were capable of solving the puzzles of Sol Sanctum... remember, they triggered that trap...

[Water Assassin]

Sorry Golden Legacy but I'm afraid you are wrong on one point there.

I support your theory for Anemos, as it did become the moon, and yes it had a Djinni shrine in wait for the heroes.

You said S&M triggered the trap. Did you notice that if you pushed the Luna statues before the trigger mechanism, it activates a cutscene?

That was what caused the STORM in Vale. The ERUPTION was triggered by stealing the stars. You'd assume that the story would have ended a lot quicker if S&M had gotten ahold of the stars then, eh?

[Golden Legacy]

Ooh, you're right... silly me... thanks for that Water Assassin, I appreciate it...

Well, at any rate, we know that the Storm was triggered unintentionatelly (spelling?) three years before the Elemental Stars were taken from their dormant places of rest... that was Saturos and Menardi's original mission, sent by the Proxians, to revive Alchemy...

When Vale refused to comply...

[Enoch]

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before the trigger mechanism, it activates a cutscene?

I never seen that. I may have forggotten it, but is it some kinda secret?

[Golden Legacy]

Secret? Not really.

In Sol Sanctum, you can actually trigger the trap Saturos and Menardi unintentionally set off. Kraden will prevent it from being completed... you have to "un-trigger it"...

All I remember is the trap was, without deactivating it, had to do with those four statues... when you move one of them, a light shines and a portion of the picture of Sol changes to Luna...

Edit: I just realized... it should be "Luna changes to Sol"... sorry...

[el_Sethro]

Water Assassin, on Jun 5 2004, 01:40 AM, said:

They rescued Felix and abducted Sheba so they could acess all of the lighthouses. In a way this helped later in the game for Sheba to uncover her past and Anemos.

Also, The Wise One had 'brought up' the village under the impression that alchemy was bad.

What is the Stone of Sages Kraden mentioned in SS?
Why do Proxians look akin to lizards?
If the Mars star was cast into the lighthouse, how did the some of the Golden Sun end up in Issac?

1. actually, Sheba never did find out about her past.....

2. he created vale, sol sanctum and mount aleph to protect the stars. he knew that alchamy wasn't bad, but the people where abusing it, so he sealed it away until people smartened up. when Isaac came, and passed his test, he knew that if he gave the power to Isaac, it would be in good hands.

as for your questions.....

1. the stone of sages is a stone that contains the power of alchamy. it is created when the lighthouses are lit. there isn't actually a physical stone in the game, though, so I don't know what's up with that..........

2. I donno. that's just like they are. I guess they're a different race.

3. his body absorbed the raw elemental power when the lighthouse was lit. this power was absorbed by all of them, reviving Felix and Isaac's parents. why isaac exclusively gets the power of alchamy, I do not know.

hope this has been helpful ;)

[Enoch]

Mabey proxians evolved that way. or adapted to climate and land's phisical features.

[Golden Legacy]

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Why do Proxians look akin to lizards?

Mabey proxians evolved that way. or adapted to climate and land's phisical features.

Like El_Sethro stated, it's just how they are. It should be accepted. That thought never once crossed my mind...
remember Maha, in Garoh... he explained it so beautifully... I will quote him as soon as I can...

[Alex]

I think that that is just the way that they are. So what if they look like Lizards? I think that they are cool.

[Lord Raenef]

hey, aren't their more elements? Isn't their like Light and Dark? Just asking..

[MysticWarrior]

No. No such thing. Ever. Only 4 elements. Only.

[Lord Raenef]

sorry, i was just thinking... sorry! * feels dumb * yeah... sorry!

[Enoch]

So wait, the same trap was triggured two times and gave two different outcomes. One being the storm, when Garet and Isaac were children, and the other is the eruption that they caused.

That's not possible!

[Lord Raenef]

Anything is possible in video games! And yeah... its just a game...

[Enoch]

Yes, but what factor would be different from the first time that would give a seperate trap. Setting aside that the trap had already been set off. But in no way could it have been due to that.

[Lord Raenef]

You have a strong point their, but other people have other ideas too... so don't kid youself okay?

[Enoch]

I know. :smile:

But it kinda annoys me when games aren't consistant with themselves.

[Lord Raenef]

its okay... I know how you feel..... Me and Dezarae are like that ... so yeah.. I kinda got over it .... but you can too! Just don't worry about okay Enoch!

[Enoch]

I'm not a child, -_- don't you diminish me :smile: ! J/K
Hm, hm!

Now then, mabey it has to do with the fact that it is a valcano and valcanos can't go off anytime, it needs the right flow to erupt.

[Lord Raenef]

A valcano can be triggered! Because of their Psyerengy, they probably can do anything... so yeah... think about that... and I don't think your a little kid.... so yeah.... your probably older than me! So I must respect my elders... sorry...

[Enoch]

Oh, yeah! I forgot about the whole psynergy thing. That kinda playes an important role, no doubt. But then my original question still remains.

[MysticWarrior]

-.-;;

THE CORRECT ANSWER!!!!

The trap wasn't triggered twice. One trap was triggered once, and another trap was triggered once.

The first trap is the statue trap. Saturos and Menardi DID NOT pull the big statue into the hole, and pushed the little statues into the squares, therefore causing the storm.

Isaac and friends took the elemental stars. Without their energy, the chamber began to collapse, therefore releasing lava.

I have shone light onto thou with great intensity!!!

[Lord Raenef]

that makes more sence... thanks Mystic Warrior! your nice... but i'm not arogant! *cries* you hurt my feelings on the other post!

[kingofthedead]

Hey maximus, where did u get the harpy and charator moving pictures????

[Enoch]

Get over it. He does it to everyone. But woudn't S and M be any bit prompted to have pushed the statues as well.

[Lord Raenef]

You guys are still arguing over this! my god! you guys just need to calm down and forget about it! its just a game! Not life! A Game! Do I see people using it as life right now... yes... I DO!!!

[Golden Legacy]

*revives* Well, either way, it's interesting to talk about (one of the great things about GS, the story, albeit a few plot holes).

I still believe that Saturos and Menardi had originally good intentions. After Vale refused to accept Weyard's diminishing state (from the Proxian Envoys) the elders of Prox sent a group (with Saturos and Menardi) to retreive the elemental stars, light the beacons, and unleash Alchemy.

*whistles and walks away*