[Golden Legacy]

Okay...
I've been feeling sentimental and have been pondering many things. It's just something I do often, to just stare at the sky at night until either I become too tired or I freeze.

Unfortunately, there are many problems in this world. This topic is mainly to discuss them...
and to talk about how these issues may be rectified and in general to make the world a better place...
some examples might be education, drugs, the environment, homelessness, AIDS, war, strife...

[MysticWarrior]

Stupidity!!! My school has a lot of those, they spread like a plague!!!

[Izar]

Drugs, fornication, adultry, stupidity, stealing, homosexuality, cussing, no respect, hate, racism, segregation is smaller countries, evil priests, child melestation, rotting food, satanic cults, aids and other STD's, poverty, no education, depleting ozone, and atheism are all problems of the world.

[Eugine]

EDIT AGAIN!: Changed what i am gonna say...

I got 1 problem with ^ post i don't agree with one although the others i agree.

[Izar]

Quote

What Isaac mention except Homo's its not really bad i got some Homo friends they don't come telling me they want me and stuff (am 100% straight) plus i think people should choose what they want.

Isaac?

Homosexuality is against christianity, and almost every other religion. Specially Pentocostals... I absolutley hate them.

Another problem is TV and celebreties. They act like they are everything. Mel Gibson is the only normal actor. Jackie chan and Chris Rock too.

[Eugine]

I know am Pentcostal also... I would never be *** but i'm just saying i wouldn't go bashing on those that are if they really wanna change its something they got to learn on their own.

[Issac_Zero2]

Quote

What Isaac mention except Homo's its not really bad i got some Homo friends they don't come telling me they want me and stuff (am 100% straight) plus i think people should choose what they want

To Eugeine (or Dullahan?):
I never said same gender likers were bad, I just said people that acted like them...
Ex:(Trying hard to keep this as clean as possible)
Boy 1: Hey, wats up?
Boy 2: Starts touching him or does something peverted...

Ya see? I don't think same sex love is wrong, they're people...
I think thinking nasty is wrong and being really peverted was wrong...

Problems in this world:
Too much hatred
Making too many drugs (like Izar said)
Greedy People that want so much money
No self respect or showing any respect for that matter
and soooooooo much more

[Nick Presta]

One thing that makes me mad beyond belief is how western society is so oblivious so everything else in the world.

People here win millions (lotery, earning, etc) and hord it, spend it, and waste it, while people in africa(example) die of a common cold and could be saved with MINIMAL effort and money.

It makes me sad and sick.

[Eugine]

Call me Eugine from now on (My Real name)... anyways to Isaac...

Boy: Hey, wats up?
Girl: Starts touching him or does something peverted...

Its pretty much the same thing...

[Issac_Zero2]

Yes, I know its the same and I don't like either of them but they are humans...and they deserved to be treated equally...
Yes...Nick1presta, you're right
Why can't people just learn to share!
Some people just don't share anything for anybody...Like why couldn't a rich millionare give some money to help...This world will always be a little corupted if people dont help or share...
People should donate more...there's never anybody volenteering or helping...
I can almost feel a destructing to society... :idea:

[Izar]

Eugine, on Apr 11 2004, 07:52 PM, said:

I know am Pentcostal also... I would never be *** but i'm just saying i wouldn't go bashing on those that are if they really wanna change its something they got to learn on their own.

Lol. I won't go bashing on them. I just dislike there actions.

If I won the lottery, It would go to the poor in africa. And the rest would go to......... a new car?

[Eugine]

Anyways of the *** topic i don't like discussing it...

Bill Gates only donates to people who don't need it its pretty strange why he does that though.

[Izar]

Bill Gates donates money to underprivaleged children. I.E., Kids in theraputic (sp?) burn clinics.

[Eugine]

yeah then sends people to steal it back under their shoulders. Did u know billy is acutally a lyar, thief and a someting else

[Izar]

I find the whole discussion silly. In a country where the per capita income is about a dollar a day, people are complaining that Bill Gates came for cheap labor not charity. The truth is India needs all the charity (and business) it can get. Either way he is doing a great job helping them out.

We have developed a habit of criticising anyone and everything and especially politicising any event which gets popularity more than what the Indian politicians can digest. So what if his donation of 100 million$ was for a hidden agenda.There is no free lunch in this world. What is stopping the politicians or even other businessmen from doing the same. Did the Ambanis or any group ever donate even 1 crore Indian rupees ? Also, Bill Gates could have spent 100 million $ on TV media advertsising in India for 2 years and achieved the same result probabally. I mean his objectives of Indian visit were very clear and never hidden in the first place. He did not come as a UN or WHO's representative to India for fighting Aids. But the Indian politicians got jealous because they did not expect this kind of popularity. When foreigners do not invest in India we lament, while on other hand , when the world's richest businessman has come to India with intentions of genuine business because he appreciates the contribution of Indians in Microsoft, why should we criticise or start profiling his cause of his visit ? All he did was by out a whole bunch of companies. People started making conclusions and rumors. He's the third richest man.

Bill Gates is one of the best in the world and I believe there is nothing behind his generosity. He has served the world more than anybody. He made the PC an house hold item and his company produced the windows OS, which helped even a common man to become computer literate easily. Whats wrong if he came here to do business ? What's wrong if he wants to serve people ?.

[MysticWarrior]

My attention slipped the moment I saw how long that was.

I don't think athiesm is a "world flaw", since it's their belief. Heck, they might say that YOU'RE a world flaw. Note that I never thought of having a god or not.

[Izar]

I call it a flaw, becuase my religion says it is a flaw. I count it as a flaw.

[MysticWarrior]

Yeah, I respect your opinion, but I don't think it's a WORLD flaw... Just a religionious (spelling?) flaw...

[Issac_Zero2]

Listening to Izar's speech about Bill Gates made me wonder...
Why won't people stop judging and start learning?
Every single day of my life, people judge the way I look and it sickens me...
Sure, I'm skinny, but that doesnt mean I dont eat
Sure I'm top in my class but that doesnt mean I'm a nerd...
Point is, people should get to know before judging...

[MysticWarrior]

Everyone who disses me regretted it... Wahaha...

Bullying. I never had a problem, since I beat them up when they try to beat me up. But I still think it's a big problem in schools around the world (or the USA).

[Izar]

Quote

Listening to Izar's speech about Bill Gates made me wonder...
Why won't people stop judging and start learning?
Every single day of my life, people judge the way I look and it sickens me...
Sure, I'm skinny, but that doesnt mean I dont eat
Sure I'm top in my class but that doesnt mean I'm a nerd...
Point is, people should get to know before judging...

Hey! Finally! Some one who agrees. Yeah, people call me a nerd cuz I'm short and wear glasses and I am smart. Oh well, alot of girls say I'm cute. Yeah and the latinas find me funny! Yeah!

Bullying = a world flaw that has no point.

[Eugine]

How did they regreat it?

Anyways you think giving is enough think about what he did to get all that money he got a bad reputation of thievery on his had he is nice and seems to be good but his reputation plus i find Microsoft be the best company around.

[Izar]

That's the point. His reputation was ruined by jealous-small-time companies.

[MysticWarrior]

Embarassed, actually made some cry. Trust me, just don't be afraid of them and they back off.

I'm not a Microsoft supporter, but I'll respect your opinions.

[Izar]

Actually, that does not work at my school. Being not afraid of them gets you jumped by Mexicans (the stupid ones, not the good ones, there are some good ones).

Another Flaw = Idiots who think they are better than others.

Another Flaw = those who make fun of christians and diss their beliefs (I.E., Stupid idiotic messed up Nazis and hillbilly rednecks)

Another Flaw = Those who make fun of the handicapped or call them "Retarded."

Another flaw = People who don't use deoderant, or don't take baths...

[MysticWarrior]

I don't see how "crud" is a bad world and "crap" isn't...

I hate all people who disses another person's religion, not just Christianity.

[Luna]

Issac_Zero2, on Apr 11 2004, 09:44 PM, said:

Why won't people stop judging and start learning?
Every single day of my life, people judge the way I look and it sickens me...
Sure, I'm skinny, but that doesnt mean I dont eat
Sure I'm top in my class but that doesnt mean I'm a nerd...
Point is, people should get to know before judging...

I often get critiziced by critizicing that x.x

Deep in me, I am always seeking perfection (even thought it doesn't exist) but they highest potential is what I mean. People at school just care about their hair their boyfriends, what this girl said to that one at Saturday's partay but they never learn, they just judge >.<.

I still have to learn a lot too, but it stresess me to think that they don't even think about learning >.<

[Izar]

Quote

Deep in me, I am always seeking perfection (even thought it doesn't exist)

One thruth, that never dies, the lord our God is perfect. <_<

Yeah, I think another flaw is killers and rapists.

[Luna]

I don't even understand WHY would someone want to rape another person >.<

It's disgusting.

[Izar]

Yes. Nasty digusting vile idiots who can't get what they want. I hate woman beaters too. GRRRR! Wife beaters too. All they have expecting is hell.

Thought I would post this.

---Newsboys (Praises)---

Take my hands, take my feet
Take the music to the street
Hear the prayers, feel the sound
A generation Kingdom bound

Great and glorious
Is my Savior
Praises on my tongue
From my heart
For our God who became flesh
For us all
Unto You
I will sing Your praises
Sing forever

Take my will, take my all
Wrap my life around Your call
Set apart to sing Your praise
To live the difference in these days

Oh, for a thousand tongues to sing
To sing aloud, sing aloud
Oh, for the glory of my God and King
Oh, for a thousand tongues to sing

[MysticWarrior]

Yeah, those kind of people make me sick.

Sheba, I remember at least 2 posts you made (when we were talking about golden sun characters) when you said "*drool*".

[Izar]

She can drool over these guys...

http://www.independentbands.com/cdimages/dvdkutless_collectorseries.jpg

Lol.

Another Flaw: McDonalds. I got sick of them for a while...

[Neo]

i don't know why Mcdonalds is a flaw. there are more, worser flaws.
how about the men who are getting rid of the forests, the first thing i want to do is get rid of them. then i hate the men who are treating animals like ****. they ruin them, they make their lifes like hell.

[Eugine]

Yeah the animal problem is a serious problem and also the threes they gonna have to start to make articifal oxygen :)

[Izar]

Yeah. No more forests mean no more air meaning no more life.

[Golden Legacy]

Quote

Yeah. No more forests mean no more air meaning no more life.

And just what has life become? It has become corrupt and means nothing to many people.

Fewer People are understanding what it means to live the way they are. Over half of the world's population would do anything to live the way we are. I come from a country where violence reigns. My parent's took me to the United States in hopes of achieving a better life...

There are far too many problems to list and understand, and many of you have brought up great points (and I thank you).

What is truly the most repulsive thing is that most of these are done purposefully and can be prevented... and yet we continue...

[Izar]

The answer will vary according to time, place and cultural context. In the innermost depths of human existence, however, the answer is one and the same, irrespective of our color, sex, race, age, religion, social and temporal circumstances: what we all seek is freedom from the various ordeals of life, whether large or small, which culminate in unrelenting death.

So what is life? Is life a part of death, or is it the other way around? And to what or who do we owe our life to? Mankind? God? Well, it is a question you will find out in judgement day. A question answered by Jesus (Yeshua) himself. An all will bow.

[Golden Legacy]

I couldn't have stated it better myself.
This is why Atheism... (I honestly mean no offense to those who are Atheists)...
Well, religion gives you a basis of fact, somthing to confide your beliefs in. It provides a centralized ideal for life in general.
How can you view life with no truth?

[Nick Presta]

You can't blame Bill for making a [generous] living off something that helps EVERYONE. Windows/PCs make everyone's lives easier, and in turn, CREATE money for people.

A while ago, how many people had to PAY to get their taxes done by a pro. Now you can buy Quicktax, load it on your WINDOWS machine, and do it yourself in an hour.

Bill makes the bucks, but he helps through charity and through his products.

[Neo]

is PC and machines everything? slowly i'm starting to belive the words: "machines will rule mankind some day." they are used more and more every day. men can't live without it. it makes some people crazy, people will do anything to get it. they get people in danger with new expiriments. men made machines, machine made weapons, weapons made war.

[Nick Presta]

^. Yes. Machines will rule men. Just like the Matrix. I do agree.

[Golden Legacy]

Which is why half of the world's population have pure hearts. They don't have our technology available. They have learned to accept life as it is and don't take things for granted.
I mean, it seems impossible to us that they could live without computers, televisions... many people don't even have proper garments or shelter to live in!

[Luna]

Machines...

Go read some of the Robot Novels by Isaac Asimov. I just read I, Robot and it talks about 4 major Machines that practically control everything that ish going on in teh world....

[MysticWarrior]

It doesn't seem impossible... If computer/television was taken away from me, I'll just go do something more entertaining...

[Golden Legacy]

You are quite exceptional then MysticWarrior. I'm not saying that there aren't those who realize this (which was one of the main reasons I started this topic... to get your deep perspectives...) But we can't deny that technology have drastically influenced the way we live. The computer and television were just some quick examples I thought of...

Look around you. Mostly everything, I'm sure, is of an artifical origin...

And of course, the destruction of Nature for our own selfish desires is nothing short of a sin... one of many sins...

Oh, and Sheba, thanks for your recommendation... I'll be sure to read that novel...

[Eugine]

Technology has improved mankind drastically and without technology we would just go back to the dark age... I dunno but i think there will be a day we don't need technology because we got magic....

[Izar]

I'm against magic, so is the bible so nonononono.

But PsyEnergy, If we had that... Beware! Muhahahahahaha!

Umm, another flaw is extinction. Why don't people stop killing the things!

And bad eating habits is a flaw too...

[MysticWarrior]

...Psynergy is magic....

You know, stuff that are against a religion isn't a WORLD flaw, Izar. Stupidity is a world flaw.

[Izar]

MysticWarrior, on Apr 12 2004, 07:26 PM, said:

...Psynergy is magic....

You know, stuff that are against a religion isn't a WORLD flaw, Izar. Stupidity is a world flaw.

I think it's a world flaw. That is what I believe in.

Psyenergy is not really magic. It's elemental thing of the earth thingy watchamajiger...

Bad manners, not only eating habits, but idiots who make situations worse, is a world flaw.

Oh and Porn is a BIG world flaw.

[MysticWarrior]

You believe you're religion is the world?! You're going to heaven for sure.

Everyone screws up one time or another...

[Nick Presta]

Computers control EVERYTHING.

From the timer on your oven, to the pump that gives you water in your house, to the alarm clock and radio.

Machines/electronics/computers, however you want to look at it, control everything.

[Izar]

Lol.

Computers are not a problem, neither is technology. Without all of it, disease would effect the world so intensly, we would die out.

[MysticWarrior]

... Succumbing to computers...

Anyways, anoter world flaw is the fact that humans are ruling the world.

[Nick Presta]

As stated in Arthur C. Clarke's book "3001: A Space Odyssey," 'Communism would work...if it had microchips, and managed to avoid Stalin.'

[MysticWarrior]

If I had my own sword I wouldn't need computers...

[Izar]

I got two swords! Hehehehe. I know how to use them.

One is and old 1861-63 Civil War blade. The other is real huge. Have no clue what it is...

My dad has an old 1780's sword and an old jungle machete.

[Eugine]

lol... Everything for Izar is a flaw dunno why.. Technology is very handy and i can't wait for the world to go star wars ^_^

[Nick Presta]

Same. I look at Star Trek and feel pity for myself that we have such primitive technology. I want to live in a world with warp drive and teleporters.

[MysticWarrior]

... You should be happy with what you have, man. If you think our technology is primitive, cut back on the Star Trek.

[Nick Presta]

I am. I am.

I take back the word pity, and replace it with..."non-advanced". I cherish what I have and try not to take it for granted, but I wish I could have some REAL technological advancement (Speed of Light Travel, etc).

[Nemphtis]

Hehe, if I had the latest state-of-the-art Orbital Frame (Anubis) I'd be happy with that ;D

[Izar]

Another flaw is Hate againsta a race. I hate it when people diss a race. I joke saying "Yo Soy Chango Banco" (I am white monkey) and it is not meant as a racist comment, cuz I'm caucasion (sp?).

[MysticWarrior]

According to cavemen, we DO have real technological advancement. And, I'd like to see you try to invent a teleporter faster than the scientists in the pentagon...

[Nick Presta]

In no way am I complaining, just call it wishful thinking.

Also, RACISM sucks.

This guy at my school was telling my girlfriend that because I am white and because of the area I live in, I am ALWAYS rich, I can afford anything, and will buy her the world. He then proceeded to tell my GF that he hates me because I'm white and rich.

'Bastard.

[Nemphtis]

What a coinsidense, Anubis can Zero-Shift lol, Those things that look like wings on his back are generators, they compress time enabling him to warp anywhere, also, it can open vector traps, which opens a space in space, allowing him to carry things which it usually couldn't, this is also where Orbital Frames store their ammunition, and their weaponry...Just thought I'd tell you that ;D

[MysticWarrior]

Now that was completely off-topic... Anyways, I kinda agree with you, racism sucks.

[Golden Legacy]

Quote

racism sucks

After all, we're all made of flesh and blood...

[Izar]

Yes. All created equal. I'm White and i like latinas! Whats the problem there.

[Golden Legacy]

Quote

I'm White and i like latinas! Whats the problem there.

lol, there is no problem. I also like how open you are about it and the great pride you have in your religion.

I commend you sincerely Izar.

[Nemphtis]

Hey, everyone likes latinas ;D

See, you know what gets to me most though. People always see white people as the racists, yet the black culture are no worse wouldn't you agree? I mean no offense to anyone but who calls black people a nigger more? White people? Or other black people? And why is it that over here, when something happens, if it's a black guy, he shouts "It's because I'm black isn't it!" You never see a white guy say that. Racism is actually over, but people can't admit that, and are so jumpy about it still.

[Neo]

true. in many places people learned to be with eachother, take America for example. some time ago, white men and black mean had their own place. they couldn't go with the same bus. they couldn't sit on the same stool. they couldn't stand together before the cinema, everything was seperated. now it is different, but some eople just won't admit it. they keep yelling at eachother, keep hitting eachother... i wonder if it'll ever stop.

[Eugine]

I think it will never stop its just a part of man nature.

[Golden Legacy]

True, but we can at the very least attempt to alter man's nature. We are capable of achieving great things, to create, yet we choose to destroy. I feel that it is our choices, not our instincts, that make all the difference.

[Izar]

Neo_Genesis, on Apr 13 2004, 01:08 AM, said:

true. in many places people learned to be with eachother, take America for example. some time ago, white men and black mean had their own place. they couldn't go with the same bus. they couldn't sit on the same stool. they couldn't stand together before the cinema, everything was seperated. now it is different, but some eople just won't admit it. they keep yelling at eachother, keep hitting eachother... i wonder if it'll ever stop.

Yup. Until Martian Luther King Jr.



I hate idiotic actions. A BIG world flaw that has no point.

[Eugine]

lol... Check this topic nearly everything is a Flaw for Izar... Do you think cussing is a flaw?

[Golden Legacy]

Absolutely not. Everybody has the right to speek freely of outside influence. It is, however, when this right is misused that terrible conflicts arise (e.g. openly supporting racism...)

So, I'd say no. It's in human nature (see a few posts back)...

Besides, I commend Izar for that and more...

[Eugine]

I usually cuss but not when am around teachers/older people or family its just showing respect IMO to those in autority

[Nick Presta]

Quote

"It's because I'm black isn't it!" You never see a white guy say that.

Actually, whenever something happens (test failure, tripped, missed layup) I always yell "It's because I'm white isn't it?!"

I don't mean it is a racist way, I just joke. Also, when black people call another black person a "nigger", they usually say it like,

"Wha gwan nigger?" Not like "You stupid nigger!"

[Golden Legacy]

Yeah, I just don't know how that term can be used in such a casual way... when a white says it, it's automatically assumed that they are racist. When blacks themselves use it, it's perfectly normal...
Manipulation should very well be considered a flaw in human nature, to suit their own needs or desires...

[Nemphtis]

Cursings no big deal here, teachers know that we do it, and we know teachers do it, so we don't care, lol, teachers won't think twice about telling you to "Get the **** out of their classroom" xD

Besides, it's the only way to make us do things here, ask someone to do soemthing nicely, and they'd tell you to go...well they won't be nice...

[Izar]

I believe cussing is wrong, for one thing (christians) it's unholy. It's not what God wants us to do. That's MY point of it.

Plus, it's pointless. Why cuss with a long word that starts with "B" when you could say dog... Plus, it's actually meant as a diss to yourself. That's what cussing meant back in old school!

Oh, Drugs are a big Problem. People who do them are a bunch of idiots. The average drug user (at least once or once a month) dies at age 36. The average nondrug user dies at around the age of 75-80 (U.S.). Other countries are lower or higher, which I don't get, because america is unhealthy, but our age keeps growing WAY too fast. next year it is soposed to get to 82 years as life expectancy for the average drug user. Canada should have a higher life expectancy. Life expectancy at birth in the United States in 1901 was 49 years. At the end of the century it was 77 years, an increase of greater than 50%. Similar gains have been enjoyed throughout the world. Life expectancy in India and The People's Republic of China was around 40 years at midcentury. At the century's close it had risen to around 63 years.

Christians (Non-drug users)
USA: 77.4 years
UK: 77.99 years
Germany: 77.78 years
France: 79.05 years
Italy: 79.25 years
Australia: 80 years

Christian (drug users)
USA: 57.5 years
UK: 57 years
Germany: 57.62 years
France: 60.52 years
Italy: 60.35 years
Australia: 60.02 years

Athiest (Non-drug user)
USA: 67.4 years
UK: 67.99 years
Germany: 67.78 years
France: 70.6 years
Italy: 70.16 years
Australia: 72 years

Athiest (drug users)
USA: 46.2 years
UK: 48.01 years
Germany: 48.92 years
France: 50.32 years
Italy: 48.54 years
Australia: 48.22 years


I got that out of an analysis chart from a christian magazine. Not really a new issue, from about January this year. Why does america get the low down on this? Well, at least we actually have benefit over poor countries. Those poor countries need help. I hope I can when I am older. But Drugs take a good 20 years off you life. Bad... It had buddists and Hindus and Muslims, but it is way too much to type now...

[Nemphtis]

Hehe, I guess they all think taking drugs is worth dying early ^_^
Who knows, maybe death is teh one true freedom, or maybe death isn't, ah well, so many questions everywhere, there's more maybe's int his world then there are answers. :P

[Neo]

In our country are very much Chriastians. many people here do believe, and there are a lot of Churches. (about 5 in my own town)

[Izar]

Yup. about 80% of the US are christians. Others are Judaism and Islam.

[Golden Legacy]

About drugs...

I shall pose the simple question, why?

[Neo]

Izar, on Apr 14 2004, 07:56 PM, said:

Yup. about 80% of the US are christians. Others are Judaism and Islam.

I live in the netherlands...

Golden Legacy said:

About drugs...

I shall pose the simple question, why?

simple answer, they feel terrible, the need support. they can find the support with drugs for a short while, after that, it helps them fall even deeper.

[Izar]

Golden Legacy, on Apr 14 2004, 04:54 PM, said:

About drugs...

I shall pose the simple question, why?

They think it's right. It's not. It makes them feel good, but does not.

[Golden Legacy]

Quote

They think it's right. It's not. It makes them feel good, but does not.

Quote

simple answer, they feel terrible, the need support. they can find the support with drugs for a short while, after that, it helps them fall even deeper.

Both very true and deep responses. It makes me feel awful and so guilty that people would just resort to these methods...
when they just need attention...
and to liberate themselves from life's sorrow...

[Eugine]

Too bad the world is embedded with sin.. It would of been so good without it. Destroying nature is also bad...

[Issac_Zero2]

Sin? Final Fantasy? Just kidding...
Nature helps almost every living thing survive and it's a pity that people are trying to destroy it...trees...land...water...
Air pollution is a major problem...now that these bigger better cars come out...pollution is getting worse everyday...I just hope more people start using electric cars...

[Golden Legacy]

Quote

Air pollution is a major problem...

Unfortunately, it is. My sister has had asthma since the second grade... she once had to stay in the hospital for a month, which was frightening...

Nature is beautiful. Everything flows so seemingly perfectly: if left unharmed, the ecosystem is a thriving and balanced process. We should cherish and protect it, but of course, the pathetic human mentality often overwhelms any sympathetic love towards the environment.

[Izar]

Well, population explosion is a problem. Too many people being born at the same time.

Although that's a problem, I am against abortion. COMPLETELY.

That's one reason I like this heavy metal song (Holy Soldier)

I float inside her womb
Oh mother, I am coming soon
Suddenly, fear and dread
When mother says she wants me dead

Oh how can you do this to me?

Thousands come
Please don't kill me
Thousands go
I want to live
Day by day
Can anyone hear me
The numbers grow
I want to live

God hears them cry
We hear the lie
And we simply look the other way

See no evil
Hear no evil
Speak no evil

From a pail with open eyes
I see the man that I despise (desire?)
He looks at me and turns his back
As my life fades, it fades to black
And there's no turning back

(Mommy, can you hear me?)
Mommy, mommy, I'm afraid)

See no evil
Hear no evil
Speak no evil

[Golden Legacy]

That is so deep and moving...

Abortion is a truly inhumane sin. It actually makes me tremble whenever I think about it... there's no innocence or purity...

how is that people could do something like this? Is there no faith, no sympathy, sorrow, or grief?

Why can people do such cruel actions?

How can anybody surpass the emotion of one's heart, and commit this?

[Julian]

the world is flawless, to me anyways, all the little things.. well, they are annoying but it it's not bad enoguh to be a flaw.

over populations and all those issues we are having isn't the world's fault, it's our's but eventually we'll solve the problem one way or another.

[Izar]

Julian, on Apr 16 2004, 06:58 PM, said:

the world is flawless, to me anyways, all the little things.. well, they are annoying but it it's not bad enoguh to be a flaw.

over populations and all those issues we are having isn't the world's fault, it's our's but eventually we'll solve the problem one way or another.

Quite possibly not. India has no care for the over population. 8-10 kids is not much to them.

By world's flaws, I think he meant "The world's people's flaws." <_<

[Julian]

ah, now there ya go, you gatta make the title more clear next time? lol, well, ya, people's made millions of flaws.

- overpopulation
- using up all our resorces
- polution
- cutting down a bit too much trees
- killing animals >.<

there's way more but I can't think of them <_< we had to do a really long list in my english class, which a threw away ^_^

[Izar]

Julian, on Apr 16 2004, 07:07 PM, said:

ah, now there ya go, you gatta make the title more clear next time? lol, well, ya, people's made millions of flaws.

- overpopulation
- using up all our resorces
- polution
- cutting down a bit too much trees
- killing animals >.<

there's way more but I can't think of them <_< we had to do a really long list in my english class, which a threw away ^_^

lol, we need to kill animals to eat! Unless, that is, your a vegetarian.

Another flaw: Racist "rednecks" who hate blacks cuz, there black. Hate mexican girls but talk about raping them.

[Julian]

Izar, on Apr 16 2004, 05:14 PM, said:

lol, we need to kill animals to eat! Unless, that is, your a vegetarian.

Another flaw: Racist "rednecks" who hate blacks cuz, there black. Hate mexican girls but talk about raping them.

i do eat meat, i meant it as in killing anymals for clothes, i just don't think we need to have to wear animals on ourselves... >.<

[Izar]

Lol, yeah. I hate animal skin clothes, looks like they are wearing roadkill...

Oh, Teen pregnancy is a major problem. Why do they do it? Geez...

Quote

That is so deep and moving...

Abortion is a truly inhumane sin. It actually makes me tremble whenever I think about it... there's no innocence or purity...

how is that people could do something like this? Is there no faith, no sympathy, sorrow, or grief?

Why can people do such cruel actions?

How can anybody surpass the emotion of one's heart, and commit this?

It's the killing of the innocence, the lives that are not ours to take. Doctors believe they can throw away an innocent child who has done nothing wrong, and throw it away. How can some one make the decision of it. Teenagae girls often make the decision of having an abortion. Why kill something that could potentially be great?

I wrote a small song/poem about this, i'll post it later.

[Neo]

i don't think abortion is always wrong. let me give an example:
imagin you got raped one day while walking home. after two weeks, you go to the doctor, because you feel a bit sick. he checks you, and comes to the conclusion your pregnant. if your only 15 or 16, it would be normal not to take the child. if i were such a girl (luckily i'm not a girl) i would ask for an abortion.

[Golden Legacy]

You make a good point...
But why should rape exist in the first place? It's a repulsive, immoral sin...

[Izar]

Neo_Genesis, on Apr 17 2004, 03:43 AM, said:

i don't think abortion is always wrong. let me give an example:
imagin you got raped one day while walking home. after two weeks, you go to the doctor, because you feel a bit sick. he checks you, and comes to the conclusion your pregnant. if your only 15 or 16, it would be normal not to take the child. if i were such a girl (luckily i'm not a girl) i would ask for an abortion.

But still, a life that is innocent? A life that has no wrong? Killinging it would kill something that did not do anything wrong. Muder. So what if she was raped, I mean geez, have the kid and AT LEAST give it to an orphanage.

[Golden Legacy]

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But still, a life that is innocent? A life that has no wrong? Killinging it would kill something that did not do anything wrong. Murder. So what if she was raped, I mean geez, have the kid and AT LEAST give it to an orphanage.

I agree wholeheartdely. I believe that God makes things happen for a reason. The child deserves to have a chance and live. He (or she) still has a soul...
The woman or girl may not have wanted to be pregnant folowing such an action, but they must be willing to accept that...

we can't change the past, but with faith, we can continue...

[Izar]

Golden Legacy, on Apr 17 2004, 04:12 PM, said:

I agree wholeheartdely. I believe that God makes things happen for a reason. The child deserves to have a chance and live. He (or she) still has a soul...
The woman or girl may not have wanted to be pregnant folowing such an action, but they must be willing to accept that...

we can't change the past, but with faith, we can continue...

Plus, the Bible clearly states that harming a woman and her unborn child is a sin of importance. Doing so is like going to hell with gasloline shorts.

I hate abortion purly. A child with a soul deserves life. God meant it, so let it be.

[Golden Legacy]

It's cold-blooded murder. Immoral and Inhumane...

To waste the Gift of Life, God's Gift of Life... deserves to be slaughtered and spend eternity in Hell...

Quote

I hate abortion purly. A child with a soul deserves life. God meant it, so let it be.

And may that child live a pure life...

[Luna]

Here we have cases where the girls who were raped and got pregnant were 9-10 years old >.<

I know it sounds too young to be able to get pregnant, but it's possible... Those girl's whole lives were ruined after that.... And it's true, you could send the child to an orphanage.... but it still wouldn't be the same for either the mother or the child...

[Nick Presta]

Most of the time, people that get an abortion, have severve metal conditions later in life (depressions, anxiety, etc) due to their realization of what they did.

They feel the pain too.

[Golden Legacy]

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Those girl's whole lives were ruined after that....

Rape is an inhumane sin, but that simply is sickening! I shudder to think about that horror... we must pray for these victims to be morally salvaged...

Quote

Most of the time, people that get an abortion, have severve metal conditions later in life (depressions, anxiety, etc) due to their realization of what they did.

They have taken a pure, innocent soul, God's Gift... It would destroy anyone.

[Issac_Zero2]

I agree...there's only one bad thing about that though...if you let the child live and he/she suffers...then isn't that just as bad...?
But I'd still never kill an innocent soul...Especially if it's a child...
Raping is inhuman...You could stay in jail for decades just raping a girl or guy (rarely) and its sick...There is no benifit for raping and it shows that people don't respect people...
Out of school...Alone...it makes me feel like the worlds coming to an end...
The most stupid people are the people that kill for no reason...

[Izar]

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And may that child live a pure life...

And if he doesn't? What if he does not thank GOD for his own life. Well... Let's hope he does.

Stupidity of the human mind is a huge flaw as well.

[Neo]

i don't think it's killing, after 4 weeks, the child doesn't even have a life, it isn't alive yet. it doesn't have a hart yet, it doesn't have a brain yet. so for me it's not killing.

[Luna]

Neo_Genesis, on Apr 18 2004, 12:38 PM, said:

i don't think it's killing, after 4 weeks, the child doesn't even have a life, it isn't alive yet. it doesn't have a hart yet, it doesn't have a brain yet. so for me it's not killing.

Here's a point I heard in another debate about abortion:

Yes, the child may not have a brain, he many not be able to think and he is only developing his body, but he still has a soul.

Just thought I'd point that out <.<;;

[Izar]

Neo_Genesis, on Apr 18 2004, 12:38 PM, said:

i don't think it's killing, after 4 weeks, the child doesn't even have a life, it isn't alive yet. it doesn't have a hart yet, it doesn't have a brain yet. so for me it's not killing.

Atually, your wrong there. It has a slight brain. EVERY human has a soul, no matter the age, we all have life. If it's not alive yet, then how does it feast from the nuetriants it is given?

[Julian]

babys are also killed for control over population, one flaw triggers the next.

[Izar]

Yup. That's our world. I hope we don't kill ourselves because of the flaws.

[Golden Legacy]

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Quote

And may that child live a pure life

And if he doesn't? What if he does not thank GOD for his own life. Well... Let's hope he does.

A human being still has a soul, REGARDLESS of the circumstances, such as rape. He or she deserves to live life like we all do, to receive the same respect and to be entitled to the same freedoms of life... and like you said, Let's hope he does thank God...

I believe that God makes things happen for a reason. This child... this Soul should live and live up to the fate and will of God.

Take that away, and what are we?

[MysticWarrior]

All of the world's flaws have to do something with God, doesn't it Riad and Izar? <_<

First of all, what's abortion?

Second of all, I want to drive a 12' pole through a person who has ever raped.

[Golden Legacy]

lol, i guess it is MW ^_^

anyway, abortion is... erm...
when a woman is pregnant, she may choose... not to have the child... same with rape... and they...
it's nothing short of killing the unborn child (can't explain it without flinching, very sensitive about this I am)

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Second of all, I want to drive a 12' pole through a person who has ever raped.

a nice way to vent your feelings, only I'd prefer a 12' pole soaked in gasoline while I have a match ready ;)

[Izar]

What is abortion?

Here is some definitios:

Termination of pregnancy.

Abortion isn't life, liberty or happiness.

We cherish the freedom to order our lives in the most personally satisfying way. Abortion denies the preborn this right to the pursuit of happiness.

We cherish the freedom which empowers us to take advantage of our myriad opportunities. Abortion denies this right to liberty.

We cherish the life for which freedom is so vitally important. Abortion denies babies this right to life.

The day will come when we as a people will live out the true and full meaning of our dearest creed: All human beings are equal under the law. We will no longer deny the humanity and the human rights of preborn children. Freedom will cease being corrupted into the right of a mother to slaughter her innocent and helpless child within the sanctum of her body. The inhuman and barbarous genocide that is abortion as birth control will end. On that day, all will be free at last, and some will do anything to keep that.

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A human being still has a soul, REGARDLESS of the circumstances, such as rape. He or she deserves to live life like we all do, to receive the same respect and to be entitled to the same freedoms of life... and like you said, Let's hope he does thank God...

I believe that God makes things happen for a reason. This child... this Soul should live and live up to the fate and will of God.

Take that away, and what are we?

Ummm, I am AGAINST abortion. You make it seem like I was for it.

[Golden Legacy]

What do you mean? I am defintely against it! And I understand perfectly that you are as well!
If you're referring to the fact that I believe God makes things happen for a reason, that was referring to rape (which I suppose I should have made clearer...)

Quote

Take that away, and what are we?

In other words, take a soul (as with abortion), and what kind of terrible beings are we?

I really hope I cleared up any misunderstandings...

[Izar]

Quote

If you're referring to the fact that I believe God makes things happen for a reason, that was referring to rape (which I suppose I should have made clearer...)

No, no , no. I believe the same. I took what you said wrong.

NO ONE CAN STAY NUETRAL ON THIS! *coughcoughmakercoughcough*

Rape is sickening as well. Sick perverts think that they can get what they want... Sick inhuman dogs of digust.

Another flaw: (This is for Christians, so please others don't reply to this because it is different from your beliefs, that goes in the "What Religion Are you" topic ^_^ ) is that christians don't act as christians now, well most. They say they are, but they go out and cuss, smoke, commit fornication, and allow their kids to believe in other religions.

[Neo]

i'm still holding on to the point; you may only abort when you are raped, for any other reason, I am against it.

Izar and Golden Legacy, both answer this: what would YOU do when you were raped (let's say Izar was a girl) and you got pregnant. and imagin you are only 15.

[Izar]

Neo_Genesis, on Apr 20 2004, 01:46 AM, said:

i'm still holding on to the point; you may only abort when you are raped, for any other reason, I am against it.

Izar and Golden Legacy, both answer this: what would YOU do when you were raped (let's say Izar was a girl) and you got pregnant. and imagin you are only 15.

I'm not a girl...

I would have the baby. If I could afford to keep it I would. If I could not afford it, I would give it to my parents OF give it to an adoption agency.

ABORTION IS MURDER!!!

[maker]

read my sig, it explains all the worlds flaws (if you are open minded!)

[Izar]

Lol, I like that sig. Real funny.

[Golden Legacy]

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No, no , no. I believe the same. I took what you said wrong.

I'm glad we cleared that up, Izar. It's really my fault, since I am really not clear most of the time...

anyway, as Izar said, Neo, if I were a girl (which I'm NOT, let's make that clear) and was raped, etc. I'd have the child. If I could, I would raise it... if not, then some sort of adaption agency would be my course of action...

Neo, answer me this. Even though a girl or woman would be raped and would have a baby, how is the newborn any different than any other person? I mean, the child would have emotions. They bleed if you prick them, and laugh if you say something funny. They are just like you and me...

and the child deserves to live. Abortion is indeed Murder... it's nothing short of taking away a life...

nice sig, Maker :rolleyes:

[Izar]

Killing that child would deprive it of life and love.

[Zellgadus]

Yes but what would you say to the child once he comes to the age of understanding??
I feel the same about christians Izar. I am not a good Christian my ancestors are surely ashamed but I feel very confused in all this confusing era of religious war and beliefs. By the way Izar cussing is it blasphemy? I'm not sure It's the same thing.
However, God did want us to be free and he was aware that we weren't perfect. To be a good Christian is at first to recognised one's flaws and do whatever it is possible to change them into qualities...
No?

[Luna]

Golden Legacy, on Apr 20 2004, 04:30 PM, said:

anyway, as Izar said, Neo, if I were a girl (which I'm NOT, let's make that clear) and was raped, etc. I'd have the child. If I could, I would raise it... if not, then some sort of adaption agency would be my course of action...

...you wouldn't be able to raise the child if you are just an elementary school student for example.

And Zellgadus is right. What would happen when that child got to the age of understanding? The child could feel his mother is old enough to be his sister or something x.x.

But I have another point I want to make and you might as well ignore it.

I strongly believe that God brought each and every one of us to Earth for a mission. Izar tells me our only mission on Earth is to serve God, but I always answer back saying that we serve God through the completion of our mission.

God does everything for a reason, and maybe the children who were murdered through aborition already completed their mission just by being aborted. Think about it.

[Zellgadus]

You may be right but what you say sheba contradicts what is taught in the Bible..
But Izar don't you think that The Bible is also a guide? A guide with your own interpretation. You must know for a fact that a lot of priests were convicted.... some weren't... For taking advantage of little boys and kids...I mean raping here...and they were the messengers of God?

What do you say to that huh? They must have been holy people and still they commit an horrible crime.

What about your state Izar? In texas the death penalty is still permitted.. As a christian.. wich texas state is known to be very Christianised...(spelling...) isn't that utterly revolting to see that such people still believe that they must KILL to punish???

Think about that...

[el_Sethro]

the world's biggest problem? skeets*. my school's packed with them. maybe we could burn them to produce electricity; kill two birds with one stone :D .

but seriously, yeah. all that stuff DOES suck. I think everyone should be much less lazy and do something about it. that means all of you guys, too. talking about it here doesen't help.

*for those of you who don't know: where I come from, a skeet is pretty much a male slut. a really stupid male slut.

[Izar]

Zellgadus, on Apr 21 2004, 12:06 PM, said:

You may be right but what you say sheba contradicts what is taught in the Bible..
But Izar don't you think that The Bible is also a guide? A guide with your own interpretation. You must know for a fact that a lot of priests were convicted.... some weren't... For taking advantage of little boys and kids...I mean raping here...and they were the messengers of God?

What do you say to that huh? They must have been holy people and still they commit an horrible crime.

What about your state Izar? In texas the death penalty is still permitted.. As a christian.. wich texas state is known to be very Christianised...(spelling...) isn't that utterly revolting to see that such people still believe that they must KILL to punish???

Think about that...

Let me restste all this confusion.

The ultimate Purpose of faith is to please God. Just please him. We don't have to go through a mission.

I believe we HAVE to read the bible, Sheba does not think we have to read it.

I believe we must NOT put God on hold. Sheba says she will wait...

I use KJV Bible.

Yes I know Texas still has the death penalty. I am against it. My state does not relect me.

This should have been in the religion topic. I just posted to clear everything up.

It does not matter what age you are sheba. ABORTION IS MUDER, DEATH, Killing of the innocence.

A poem by me:

Don't kill the innocent,
Their life is not your's to take,
Don't kill the innocent,
What did they do to deserve this Punushment?

It's alot longer but it's on another computer.

[Eugine]

Ok... Flaw i discovered is throwing pencil shaving on floor in school :lol:

[Golden Legacy]

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What would happen when that child got to the age of understanding?

Then the child would have to accept the truth, regardless of how painful it may be.

It's true, I'll admit, that particularly young girls would have an unfortunate issue, to take care of the newborn... what's wrong with foster parents?
children need love and care... if that is provided, then they will be able to grow and prosper like others...

to answer the point Sheba made...

Abortion is murder, caused by us... I believe in a day of Judgement, where all the souls will live in Paradise if they were morally just and generous, and those who had dire and evil motives will forever suffer in Hell...

I believe that a dire action would be such a murder.
Put it this way; why don't we give the child a chance to prove his or her contribution to the world? God judges us on our actions, the very choices we make... the mission you referred to... If you raise the child in a loving and caring manner, then...

I'm really sorry. I respect your perspectives. I just can't explain myself, what I mean. that's one of the flaws of my character...

[Izar]

The Bible also Specifically says not too harm a woman and her child. Which makes me even more against abortion.

[Golden Legacy]

Indeed...

the mother holds the child in her womb, and suffers through great pain... yet the bond between mother and child is so deep... this is the bond I seek to defend, and is among the factors that puts me against abortion (other than the fact that it is pure murder)...

[el_Sethro]

abortion isn't really murder any more than mercy killing. if the baby is destined to be born to a family who lives in poverty and can't support it and to end up living a miserable life because no one can help it, then it's better off not being born at all. there is adoption, of course, but in most developing countries, the orphaniges are pretty horrible, and many children die horribly long painful deaths from desieses that they can't afford the cure for.

so... either live a life of poverty and misery for about 9 years unil you die of AIDS, or the alternative is not being born at all. givin the choice, I'd prefer the second option.

that's my opinion and arguments, anyway.

likewise, I'm all for mercy killing, too.

[MysticWarrior]

I think the sayings:

"Never punch a girl"
"Never hurt a girl"

Is sexism. So I ignore that and treat girls like I treat guys.

[Izar]

I prefer living by my deformities. IF I was born with AIDS, so be it.

Those that choose to kill their child are muderers to begin with.

Innocent, A poem By [Insert full name here] AKA IronCrow

Mother with no husband
Mother with a baby boy
She chose had to choose her babe's future.
Will it be something to enjoy?

Don't kill the innocent!
It is not your life to take!
Don't Kill the innocent!
What did they do to diserve this punishment?
Don't Kill the innocent!
Their death is your's to blame!

You take his life
It's all in Vain
You take his rights
What ARe you Insane?
You got to keep your's
Now let him have the same!

[Golden Legacy]

I say that to my sister to annoy her... and it works :lol:

well, I'm referring to the maternal bond and love between mother and child... which is why I'm against abortion.

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so... either live a life of poverty and misery for about 9 years unil you die of AIDS, or the alternative is not being born at all. givin the choice, I'd prefer the second option.

I'd take the first. If you have true faith in God, then... you would be able to prevail over any pain... but regardless, you are still taking a life away, despite the cicumstances! is it the child's fault for, for example, having AIDS or the mother having been raped?!

also, I do plan on finding the cure for AIDS... but that's something else...

[Izar]

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I say that to my sister to annoy her... and it works :lol:

Say what? The Poem? I made that poem up.

[Golden Legacy]

Not the poem... this is why I am really confusing :lol:

MysticWarrior:

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I think the sayings:

"Never punch a girl"
"Never hurt a girl"

Is sexism. So I ignore that and treat girls like I treat guys.

meh

but that really is a nice poem there, Izar...

[Izar]

Thanks. many people think I am a good writer. That is actually a song, not a poem, written by me. I like writng poems and songs. Here is where I post some of them.

Abortion is wrong, nasty, gross, yada yada yada...

They throw the babies away, flush them down the toilet, use them for expiraments, or use them in make-up. My older sister had to research on this.

[MysticWarrior]

*Turns into a beast 10x the size of Izar, breathing heavily at his face*

No AdVeRtIsInG!!!

*Turns back to normal*

I think humanity is a world flaw. Destroying everything everyone needs to live.

[Izar]

Ummmm, it was not meant for advertising... I did not care if any one went.

Humanity is not a flaw. Were put here for a purpose. The Serve GOD.

Abortion is Cruel, Sick and savage. Shows how much humanity knows about life.... Nothing.

[MysticWarrior]

If we should serve god, why can't we serve him more directly in heaven, instead of in Earth where we can corrupt the animals and earth?

[Luna]

That ish becaushe of our M-I-S-S-I-O-N -.-; MW

[EDIT] BTW

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I believe we HAVE to read the bible, Sheba does not think we have to read it.

I believe we must NOT put God on hold. Sheba says she will wait...

I DO think we have to read the Bible. I've been thinking about reading it for quite some time now. I just don't think we should follow ALL of the stuff it says, cause the information was handled by humans and it's hard for me to trust them -.-;

There is a time for everything. If I want things to work out, I have to do them at the time that is proper. If I'm making God wait, it's worth its while -.-;.

[MysticWarrior]

Oh yeah, and Izar, can you stop saying "we"? It keeps on sounding like you think I believe you... :P

[Zellgadus]

Izar your posts are starting to get on my nerves.

What do you know huh about abortion? What would you do If you were raped. Don't give me that crap about how you would keep the child. Do you know what it is? Have you lived it? It is pretty easy to say something but to actually do it.
Do you really think it is correct to actually believe that everything that is written has to be done? You must also interpret and not take everything for a fact. If you do you are becoming an extremist.

Extrême islamist , Talibans, Al Quaida, etc.
Rings a bell?

[Eugine]

Zellgadus got a point Izar according to how you put it. But aborting babies is somewhat wrong

[el_Sethro]

Golden Legacy, on Apr 21 2004, 11:52 PM, said:

I'd take the first. If you have true faith in God, then... you would be able to prevail over any pain... but regardless, you are still taking a life away, despite the cicumstances! is it the child's fault for, for example, having AIDS or the mother having been raped?!

well, I don't have faith in god, but that's all explained in the "religion" topic

no, it isn't the child's fault that it is born with AIDS, and it is still taking life, but I think that there are some circumstances where taking life is the right thing to do. I don't think that death is necissairily a punishment in this case. you're saving the child from a miserable life; I'd rather no life than a horrible one. that's just me, though.

of course, people who use abortion as a form of contreception are horrible people. to be so lazy not to use protection while thinking, "if I get pregnant, it's okay! I'll just get an abortion." is extremely irresponsible.

[Golden Legacy]

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no, it isn't the child's fault that it is born with AIDS, and it is still taking life, but I think that there are some circumstances where taking life is the right thing to do. I don't think that death is necissairily a punishment in this case. you're saving the child from a miserable life; I'd rather no life than a horrible one. that's just me, though.

A good perpspective... I feel that with true faith, you can overwhelm any miserable circumstances and continue on, in general...and it is this hope that I have in letting a child live (and NOT committing murder...)

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Extrême islamist , Talibans, Al Quaida, etc.
Rings a bell? 

Zellgadus, please... Are you racist? sorry, but I honestly don't feel that such terrorist organizations are a reflection of the religion that they supposedly represent...

[Izar]

MysticWarrior, on Apr 21 2004, 07:38 PM, said:

If we should serve god, why can't we serve him more directly in heaven, instead of in Earth where we can corrupt the animals and earth?

Not because of a mission.

There is no "mission" mentioned in the bible, so no mission.

We live in a corrupt world to NOT be corrupted. We don't serve him directly from heaven because Heaven is the reward for the holy.

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Zellgadus, please... Are you racist? sorry, but I honestly don't feel that such terrorist organizations are a reflection of the religion that they supposedly represent...

Islamics do. they believe if they kill the unholy (US) then they will be rewarded in heaven

Killing a child means you are depriving them THIER OWN RIGHTS.

[Golden Legacy]

Indeed. Think of it as a test...
Based on the choices we make and the decisions we choose, God will either punish you (in Hell) or reward you in Heaven..

[Izar]

Exactly, and in the end, the dead will rise. And the killers will face justice.

Abortion is just sickening, doctors call them things, but they are not, they are people too.

[Golden Legacy]

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Islamics do. they believe if they kill the unholy (US) then they will be rewarded in heaven

Yes, their idea of Jihad... but regardless, I still feel that Muslims aren't the problem... the terrorists that represent them are...

If you would like to continue talking about Abortion (or anything else, for that matter) feel free too.

Otherwise, I am interested to hear what you say about...

Suicide...

[Izar]

Golden Legacy, on Apr 22 2004, 05:06 PM, said:

Yes, their idea of Jihad... but regardless, I still feel that Muslims aren't the problem... the terrorists that represent them are...

If you would like to continue talking about Abortion (or anything else, for that matter) feel free too.

Otherwise, I am interested to hear what you say about...

Suicide...

Yes I know muslims are not the problem, I meant the Taliban were muslims...

Another thing, abortionists, how would you feel if you were about to come to the world and met a doctor, who was going to kill you? How would you feel if you were about to die?

"Mommy, please save me!"

Your cry would be pointless because no one would listen. Abortion is too musch like the death penalty.

[Golden Legacy]

that remind's me!

it has been shown that while the fetus is in the womb, it actually dreams! and what's more... the boy or girl has emotions that influence the dreams! (the feelings are subtle, of course, but it's still there!)

[el_Sethro]

actually, the point of abortion is that the baby is killed before it's born, before it has a chance to develop at all. the woman goes to the doctor, finds out she's pregnant, gets an abortion. she doesn't wait 9 months until the baby is born and then kill it. that's illogical.

[Izar]

el_Sethro, on Apr 22 2004, 05:36 PM, said:

actually, the point of abortion is that the baby is killed before it's born, before it has a chance to develop at all. the woman goes to the doctor, finds out she's pregnant, gets an abortion. she doesn't wait 9 months until the baby is born and then kill it. that's illogical.

Some do.

And still, depriving some one of life is stupidity and is hell-condeming.

[Julian]

... okay.. you know what? who cares about killing a baby?! It's called control over population, we sorta need it so we wont finish using up our resources that fast... anyhow I think one really really big flaw is cannablism... I've heard the record is eating 171 humans... >.< it's sick... why in the world would someone want to eat... PEOPLE?!

[Izar]

Julian, on Apr 22 2004, 05:46 PM, said:

... okay.. you know what? who cares about killing a baby?! It's called control over population, we sorta need it so we wont finish using up our resources that fast... anyhow I think one really really big flaw is canibalism (spelling?)... I've heard the record is eating 171 humans... >.< it's sick... why in the world would someone want to eat... PEOPLE?!

Who cares about killing an innocent life that has done no wrong and is still killed? I DO AND SO DOES BILLIONS OF THE WORLD"S POPULATION! (not meant as a flame)

Abortion is killing a baby as it is born. My sis did a project over it. They slice the baby's throat or pop it's neck or inject it with a poison.

It has already deleloped in the womb el sethro. So why did you say befor it developes?

Oh, and cannablism is lowering the population too.. I'm against it though.

[Julian]

Izar, on Apr 22 2004, 03:48 PM, said:

Who cares about killing an innocent life that has done no wrong and is still killed? I DO AND SO DOES BILLIONS OF THE WORLD"S POPULATION!

... heh, I DO care, it's just that you guys have been talking about it for quit a loonnnggg time e.e; sry,

anyhow cannablism is pretty gross I mean gosh... *pukes* killing someone and eating them... urrrg...

[Izar]

Yo don't care. You just said you did not. You said it's to lower the population. The USA has no population problem, so why kill the innocent?

I know advertising is not allowed, but I want you all abortionists to look through this, I can't stand going Here.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth...

[Julian]

Izar, on Apr 22 2004, 03:57 PM, said:

Yo don't care. You just said you did not. You said it's to lower the population. The USA has no population problem, so why kill the innocent?

no no, well, i think killing is wrong even if it's JUST a baby but I mean we DO need to control our population problem... IF we were to use up all our resources then we are doomed, I think it's WRONG killing them BUT there is a good excuse for doing so.

[Izar]

Look at those pics...

Sorry for the advertising, one more, I promise. This HAS to be done. DON"T KILL THE INNOCENT!

No, no, no, We will have used up all our resources in about 200-300 years it is sopopsed. Space travel and artificial gravity is real close, taking away that population number and slowing the use of resources. A better alternative to abortion.

[el_Sethro]

I went to the site. you don't honestly believe it, do you? that isn't abortion. an abortion doctor killes it before it's developed. you can find out if you're pregnant 9 months before the birth, and that's when you get an abortion. there isn't a "bond" between the mother and child. the baby isn't concious or anything. it isn't even really a baby yet.

[Julian]

... 9 months?! a woman would realize she's not getting here ... i don't want to say it cause there might be children among us... but ya know, she would probably know.

[Zellgadus]

Quote

Zellgadus, please... Are you racist? sorry, but I honestly don't feel that such terrorist organizations are a reflection of the religion that they supposedly represent...

Ok, I've missed a lot of things here so here I go.

First of all NO I am not a racist Golden Leg you could not find a person more open-minded than me. I was just saying FACTS. I was talking about extremists!!

Do you know what an extremist is? Now Talibans are extremists. Have you done some research about their beliefs and how they treat woman? Now I'm not here to educate you But extremists are known to NOT reflect their religion since they are EXTREMISTS... They take everything that is writtren not only in their Coran Charia or etc but some other texts by other people that dictate what life should be. Now I still say that Talibans and AL Quaida are extremists SINCE THEY ARE.

Furthermore I am not a "I love USA" guy. I must say that I am against a lot of their policies. Now they are currently fighting a holy war againts those islamists EXTREMISTS and they are taking all the world in it. It is incredible how we are more and more sinking into a terrible world war 3 spiral.

Now for aborption....I think that a woman has the right to demand aborption if it means that she can lose her life if she does have the child. That is a all-yes answer.
However, if she got raped I'd say she has the right for it.
OK, guys I know a lot of you are still young so you cannot really know what it is to be on the impulsion of the moment. When you love someone sometimes you lose sight of rationnality. I've always been lucky but I must say that if my gf did got pregnant I wouldn't know what to do.
And for all of you guys who say that they do know.. Let'S wait a couple of years when you have all your future in front of you prepared and all is ready, and you have a baby that comes out of nowhere disturb that nice future you have.
I'm only saying you can say for sure that you would do that....

[Izar]

el_Sethro, on Apr 22 2004, 06:24 PM, said:

I went to the site. you don't honestly believe it, do you? that isn't abortion. an abortion doctor killes it before it's developed. you can find out if you're pregnant 9 months before the birth, and that's when you get an abortion. there isn't a "bond" between the mother and child. the baby isn't concious or anything. it isn't even really a baby yet.

That is abortion. I have spoken to many doctors who preform them. Every last one I spoke to regret that that had to do it.

A girl in school got pregnant, 6 months later she got an abortion. She told me.

There is a bond. A mental bond as well. a bond that cannot be broken.

A friend and I were watching the news, and it spoke of a girl (14) who had an abortion. She commited suicide because of it, only 3 weeks after the death of the child. She wrote a note saying she killed herself because she killed her child. Her note a t the end said "I want to be with my baby, I want to see My baby." Heaven help her.

EDIT: It was actually not far from where we live. It was around Houston, Texas.

[Zellgadus]

If you mean aborting when the "child" is already there and there is more than a simple bond I am force to agree with you. Anyways I say that but I still do believe what I wrote before on this subject.

[Eugine]

Aboriting babies can be good for certain instances because if i was a girl and i got raped i wouldnt want to carry a baby i wasn't meant to have or wanted to.

[Izar]

Eugine, on Apr 22 2004, 08:33 PM, said:

Aboriting babies can be good for certain instances because if i was a girl and i got raped i wouldnt want to carry a baby i wasn't meant to have or wanted to.

Pentocostal? no...

God means for everything, and has a purpose for it.

Why Kill a baby who has done nothing wrong?

I want someone to give me an answer. I want to th answer to be the same answer as you would answer this "Why kill a human being who has nothing wrong AT ALL?" Forget the abortion subject, just answer "Why kill a human being who has nothing wrong AT ALL?"

Answer it.

[MysticWarrior]

Because of overpopulation...

[Nick Presta]

In the view of God, abortion is wrong.

However, your personal view doesn't matter to me or to anyone. It's your own. We can't change someone else's view on it.

If you want to follow what God says, then pro-life.
If you want a solution, then pro-choice.

[Izar]

MysticWarrior, on Apr 22 2004, 08:37 PM, said:

Because of overpopulation...

You would go up to a grown man and kill him?

Actually, you can change some one's view on it, I have already many times.

Remember answer like: "Why kill a human being who has nothing wrong AT ALL?" or "Why kill a grown human being who has nothing wrong AT ALL?"

[MysticWarrior]

...Never thought of it that way... But if we whipe out all the scums on the planet, then that issue would end. ;)

[Zellgadus]

There is no and I mean no right reason or logical reason to kill someone. I mean none. Even if you are about to die and it seems that the only solution to survive is to kill that person.

However aborption isn't considered a murder if it's only cells at the beginning. I mean if that was so, then let me tell you that each time you cut yourself, pushed somebody, brushed your teeth and walked; you were a murderer.

[Izar]

That's "scum" I mean pure people with no wrongs. (if there was.) I don't think murder is right at all.

Quote

There is no and I mean no right reason or logical reason to kill someone. I mean none. Even if you are about to die and it seems that the only solution to survive is to kill that person.

However aborption isn't considered a murder if it's only cells at the beginning. I mean if that was so, then let me tell you that each time you cut yourself, pushed somebody, brushed your teeth and walked; you were a murderer.

Cells, two cells that are unique in all ways. Cells that create a HUMAN BEING.

[MysticWarrior]

No, I guess not. BUT. But... But... SHADDUP!!! ;) Note that I'm not mad at anyone.

[Zellgadus]

Izar, are you saying that it's ok to kill "scum"? That they are not allowed to be pardoned? That is outrageous...

Everyone, we must try to save everybody.

[Izar]

Agian, I dare anyone to give me a LOGICAL answer.

Killing a baby is like killing a grown person.

Look at my post, I said I don't believe in murder. Hence "Thou shalt not commit murder"

[MysticWarrior]

If you think of it that way, why don't you make a movement on not to kill animals, too? I think humans are the same as animals.

[Izar]

Lol, no, cuz the bible gave permission for it.

[MysticWarrior]

You're saying that like I'm also following your bible, which I'm not... See, that's what annoys me...

[Zellgadus]

Let me persuade you of this. At an early stage, and I mean after the spermatozoid and the ovula have merged, there is a mega big cell that is created.

Now when your HUMAN BEING is created, those cells, inside the placenta are no different than normal cells. You know what: they are just cells that can take upon any task. They are super cells that can be wichever cell possible. Now, Those cells are the same that you have in your hand and fingers. Thus proving my point on saying that you were a murderer.

[Zellgadus]

sorry for double posting internet problems, now.

So whatever the bible says is an ok?

You know animals are as good as humans. You know what. Let me tell you about a philosophical fact.
Utilitarism of Bentham and his counter rival Kant.
you should read what milton has also to say about that.
I'll go read some of it and come back with some facts you'll see.

[Izar]

That's not how I am saying it. I am saying it like I go for it, cuz I do, MW.

Quote

Now when your HUMAN BEING is created, those cells, inside the placenta are no different than normal cells. You know what: they are just cells that can take upon any task. They are super cells that can be wichever cell possible. Now, Those cells are the same that you have in your hand and fingers. Thus proving my point on saying that you were a murderer.

No, When the cells of the sperm and egg are together they are called a fetus.

I gotr this off a site:

During the first trimester, your baby is a bundle of cells that are dividing at an extraordinary speed, called a fetus Thus, it is imperative for expectant mothers to avoid anything that could be harmful to this early developmental process.
Women should increase their intake of folic acid six to eight weeks before conception, if possible, and through the duration of the first trimester. Folic acid is critical during this time, as it helps to prevent neural tube defects such as spina bifida.

At the moment of conception, your baby's genetic makeup is complete. The DNA from the egg and sperm have united and determined your baby's height, hair color, eye color, etc. The head and trunk of the fetus begin forming by the fifth week, along with all the major organs. In fact, your baby's heart will begin beating in the first month.

During the first eight weeks after conception (the first ten weeks following the first day of your last menstrual period) all the major organs of your baby are formed. During this time, exposure to drugs, toxins, radiation, and other external factors could be harmful to the embryo. The majority of miscarriages occur during the first trimester.

It is very important to avoid exposure to drugs, smoking, alcohol, harmful chemicals, fumes, sprays, even some herbal products. It is also known that cats could carry a disease known as Toxoplasmosis. Therefore, it is recommended to have someone else change the cat litter.

[MysticWarrior]

Well, what about others who don't follow your bible? What say you about them? Why do they not kill humans, but relentlessly kill animals?

[Izar]

MysticWarrior, on Apr 22 2004, 08:49 PM, said:

Well, what about others who don't follow your bible? What say you about them? Why do they not kill humans, but relentlessly kill animals?

This post was void of the topic MW.

But I'll answer it.

Islam - same
Judaism - same exept pork
Others - can do what they want with food.

I HATE ABORTION, PERIOD!

[MysticWarrior]

Cool... §_§... Anyways, this isn't a religionous forum, so can you post a general answer from now on? I don't mind if you post your ideas or beliefs, but just add a general answer at the end... Thanks...

[Izar]

I did, I.E., the "I HATE ABORTION, PERIOD"

I purely belive killing a baby is pure murder.

Here is most of the page of the site:

The First Eight Weeks
During the first eight weeks after conception (the first ten weeks following the first day of your last menstrual period) all the major organs of your baby are formed. During this time, exposure to drugs, toxins, radiation, and other external factors could be harmful to the embryo. The majority of miscarriages occur during the first trimester.
It is very important to avoid exposure to drugs, smoking, alcohol, harmful chemicals, fumes, sprays, even some herbal products. It is also known that cats could carry a disease known as Toxoplasmosis. Therefore, it is recommended to have someone else change the cat litter.

The Amniotic Fluid
As pregnancy progresses, amniotic fluid starts forming and filling the amniotic sac around the baby. This fluid cushions and protects the baby, provides some fluid for the baby, helps keep the temperature of the baby stable, and allows the baby to swim.

The Umbilical Cord
This long, semi-transparent, jelly-like rope is attached to the placenta and grows from the baby’s navel. It transports nourishment and oxygen from the mother to the baby and helps remove waste products. Fetal blood is separate from the mother’s blood, and the transfer of nutrients, oxygen, and waste products takes place through a selectively permeable membrane in the placenta.

At Five Weeks
The embryo has a two-lobed brain and a spinal cord. The arms and legs start to appear. The heartbeat is seen on the 25th day. The baby’s heart and lungs are developing. The baby weighs less than an ounce and is less than an inch long.

At Seven to Ten Weeks
Ears, eyelids, fingers, and toes are developed. At eight weeks, all the major organs are formed. The placenta starts working. The neural tube closes. The baby looks like a person.

At Three Months
The baby is four inches long and weighs just over one ounce. The baby starts growing fuzzy hair, buds for future teeth and soft fingernails and toenails. Kidneys begin to excrete urine and other organs further develop. At this time, the baby’s heartbeat can be heard with a Doppler device.

At Four Months
The baby can hear, move, kick, swim, sleep, and swallow. The external genitalia are recognized by ultrasound. The skin is pink and transparent and eyebrows have formed. The baby is 6-7 inches long.

At Five Months
The baby is 8-12 inches long. Movement is felt by mom. Ultrasound can examine the baby’s anatomy in detail.

At Six Months
The baby weighs one to one-and-a-half pounds and is eleven to fourteen inches long.

At Seven Months
The eyes open and close, and the baby sucks its thumb. The baby can respond to sound. Weighs 3 pounds.

At Eight Months
The baby now gains about one-half pound per week. Most babies are situated head down.

By the end of 37 weeks, the baby is considered mature and ready to breathe. By 38 to 40 weeks, the baby weighs six to nine pounds and is 19-21 inches in length.

Pregnancy is a great time to focus on your health. By protecting your health, you promote the healthy development of your baby.

[Luna]

Izar, on Apr 22 2004, 07:54 PM, said:

Judaism -  same exept pork

<.<;; there is much more stuff to what is kosher and what is trayf than just "No pork"

[Zellgadus]

Izar<s reaction are what we would call a veiled vision. He won<t listen to rational facts that prove that some things that he says are just not right... anyways.
Naruto rocks who knows the anime/manga.

[Luna]

-.-; Zellgadus...stop talking about Izar. You guys are doing that in every single topic, deal with it >.<.

And don't get off-topic

[Zellgadus]

But I had to say it cuz he just see it as one simple direct path and it<s not it<s a complicated maze wich each of our choices bring us more to enlightment or simply to statu quo.

[Eugine]

?? Zellgadus i don't understand can you rephase

[Golden Legacy]

Good Lord have I been missing out! Had exams and stuff... sorry...

Izar has already pointed out the biological steps in the development of a child. And this child has a SOUL from God. It is the center of emotion and the being him/herself (philosophical and confusing, I know...) It is God's will that this child live...

once again, I can't really debate well. All of you have put out good points from both perspectives on Abortion. I personally feel that if a death can be prevented, then it should be. Purposefully taking a Soul is murder...

meh, when I feel more energetic (and I have more time on my hands), I will try and be more active... sorry...

[Issac_Zero2]

Aiight...Time to change topics...Its getting out of hand...
Wat do you guys think about...Obesity...?
Im not dissing nobody or saying anything but wat do you guys think about obesity...Another world flaw...(sighs)
I don't know becuase im really slim but who do you think is to blame for all this? The person or the shop or restuarant that is distributing these products?

[MysticWarrior]

Using context clues, I'd have to decipher that obesity means being fat, am I right?