[Laharl]

http://blog.pucp.edu.pe/media/497/20070902-Facepalm1.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z254/laharl_the_slayer_07/Die-50_Caliber_Asprin.jpg

[Caael]

Eugine, on Jun 3 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

Wow, you guys have no business sense. A company is kicking your behind with a new and innovative technology, and you wouldn't try to outdo them? This is exactly why Sony lost the MP3 market to Apple.

Ignorance at it's finest. When a popular product has been released, and it's sky rocketed, you dont try and cash in on it, because it just doesnt work. Just look at the Zune. Tried to cash in on the Ipod craze and it crashed and burned. When a product is so highly thought of and has a really strong market like the Wii, you dont ever try to copy it becaues you will lose a lot of money in the process.

I know these things, dont test me Eugine.

[Eugine]

Why hello Caael =). I will test you.

First of all, do not use a bad example. The Zune is actually doing well, and I think it is actually the number two MP3 in terms of market share now, despite having to compete with Sony, Creative and the lots in the US. The Zune did not crash and burn.
Secondly, the Zune is not similar to the iPod in most ways, so using that example again is bad.

Anyway, I never said for Sony to copy Nintendo lolz. I simply said it's always good to outdo them, or atleast do some R&D. If the public demands it, why not try to get into the fray?

And I'll like to know the whys to your reasoning.

[Caael]

Eugine, on Jun 3 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

Why hello Caael =). I will test you.

First of all, do not use a bad example. The Zune is actually doing well, and I think it is actually the number two MP3 in terms of market share now, despite having to compete with Sony, Creative and the lots in the US. The Zune did not crash and burn.
Secondly, the Zune is not similar to the iPod in most ways, so using that example again is bad.

Anyway, I never said for Sony to copy Nintendo lolz. I simply said it's always good to outdo them, or atleast do some R&D. If the public demands it, why not try to get into the fray?

And I'll like to know the whys to your reasoning.

Yes it was a bad example, but just look at how many brain training clones there are out there and look at how crap they are. If people copy something, they dont make it decent, they just want to cash in on it. Because they know the other one will sell, they hope theirs will too. It's a bad marketing technique, but unfortunately sometimes it works, and the company gets money to make even more cheap copies.

Quote

Anyway, I never said for Sony to copy Nintendo lolz

Bull****

Quote

A company is kicking your behind with a new and innovative technology, and you wouldn't try to outdo them?

[Eugine]

Anyway, Sony isn't stupid. They probably have the best Japan has to offer, and most likely we'll see something good from them if given adequate time.

[Caael]

It's always been like that though with the PS3. It's always relying on future releases.

However, I do love Sony's other products, especially the TV's :P 42" ftw!

[Eugine]

I'm sure I said this already, but I'll repeat it again.

The PS3 was forced to market because of the Wii and the 360. Sony thought that the current gen would not have started until they declared so, but unfortunately Microsoft and Nintendo forced them to release an unfinished product, or one which imo, Sony was not proud of at the beginning.

Of course there were unfortunate delays and setbacks, but now that Sony has had adequate time to perfect their product, by 2009, Sony will unleash the tigers and will be ready and prepared to conquer again. Sony also had some healing to do, and to regain the trust and confidence of some gamers, who feel betrayed by them. I am confident they will do it, and I am confident that Sony will make sure you are pleased with the PS3.

[Zeypher]

Ujeen, the PS3 released before the Wii.

And...how do you call making a controller that's exactly the same as another company's, NOT copying?
Makes no sense...

[Someone Else]

That was a RUMOR, people! The picture was not real. Sony aren't very smart, but do you really think they'd copy a controller button by button?

Also, the "Home" button also functioning as a Square button? Yeah right. That would work.

The story itself could be true. I wouldn't be surprised considering how much Sixaxis sucks.

[Eugine]

Wind Dude, on Jun 3 2008, 08:22 PM, said:

The picture was not real. Sony aren't very smart...

Why is Sony not very smart?

[Someone Else]

I was just teasing you there. But not really.

[Toasty]

Split Infinity, on Jun 3 2008, 01:05 AM, said:

Look at the design, Toasty.

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/05/Sony_Revolution2.jpg

In this order: Power button, D-Pad, round function button, row of three smaller buttons, two more round buttons, four lights indicating controller number. Notice anything?

In fact, I'm almost positive it's a fake now.

It is a fake. It's too much like the Wii mote. That's why I was talking about next generation. Read between the lines. <_<

Eugine, on Jun 3 2008, 03:02 AM, said:

Wow, you guys have no business sense. A company is kicking your behind with a new and innovative technology, and you wouldn't try to outdo them? This is exactly why Sony lost the MP3 market to Apple.
Sony way of achieving the motion sensing technology will be completely different from Nintendo's, and that honestly is not copying o.o

And besides the rushed sixaxis, what did Sony game division 'copy'?

Buisness sense would be actually carring about their customers. Sony obviously doesn't.
Of course Sony should and would try to outdo nintendo. but doing so too early makes them look like copy-catting whores (which, by the way, is not good business sense), and usually results in a half-assed attempt at someone else's idea. I'm pretty sure I just described the sixaxis to a T there.

Sony copied the D pad, the analog stick (though so did Nintendo if you think about it), the motion sensing, the idea of using CD's instead of carts (heck, that's how the origional playstation came to be), and a number of other things that slip my mind. There's a list somewhere in this topic.

[Split Infinity]

D-pad: Hardly an original idea to start with.

Analog stick: Already went through this.

Motion sensing: Already went through this.

CD drive: Sony didn't copy Nintendo, they were working on the Playstation as a joint project and Nintendo decided to cancel it, thus leaving Sony with the rights to the machine. If anything, Nintendo copied Sony when they released the Gamecube.

[Ironsight]

Anybody else get the feeling these arguments are starting to just go around in circles?

[Split Infinity]

-_-; Maybe we should just have a huge list of points and counterpoints and use that for everything.

[Zeypher]

How about we all just stfu <_<

[Laharl]

http://plognark.com/Art/Sketches/CircularLogicMascot.JPG

[Toasty]

Split Infinity, on Jun 4 2008, 12:02 AM, said:

D-pad: Hardly an original idea to start with.

Analog stick: Already went through this.

Motion sensing: Already went through this.

CD drive: Sony didn't copy Nintendo, they were working on the Playstation as a joint project and Nintendo decided to cancel it, thus leaving Sony with the rights to the machine. If anything, Nintendo copied Sony when they released the Gamecube.

D-Pad: First directional control device used on a console (unless the atari with it's fancy joystick came out before the NES)

And Nintendo came up with the idea for using discs instead of carts before Sony. They hired Sony to help them put the idea to work. In the end, they dropped the project, so Sony took Nintendo's idea, but made a console out of it instead of an add-on.

*cuts the leash tied to stake*

[Laharl]

The Atari consoles were out years before the NES :/

[Zeypher]

Didn't the Atari use a Joystick though?

[Laharl]

Toasty, on Jun 5 2008, 08:09 AM, said:

D-Pad: First directional control device used on a console (unless the atari with it's fancy joystick came out before the NES)

Laharl, on Jun 5 2008, 08:19 AM, said:

The Atari consoles were out years before the NES :/

[Split Infinity]

Toasty, on Jun 5 2008, 05:09 PM, said:

D-Pad: First directional control device used on a console (unless the atari with it's fancy joystick came out before the NES)

And Nintendo came up with the idea for using discs instead of carts before Sony. They hired Sony to help them put the idea to work. In the end, they dropped the project, so Sony took Nintendo's idea, but made a console out of it instead of an add-on.

*cuts the leash tied to stake*

As if other gaming companies wouldn't have developed a controller with up, down, left and right buttons sooner or later. It's a no-brainer. Hell, computers were already using arrow keys to play games by that time.

Nintendo made attempts to work with discs, but it was only when Sony was developing the CDROM/XA format that they approached them requesting to use it. The technology was Sony's to begin with.

[Toasty]

Except for the fact that the idea wasn't thought up by Sony. <_<

Nintendo went to Sony to propose an idea for an add-on for the SNES that would allow it to play games on discs. Sony didn't think it up, Nintendo did. When Nintendo dropped the project, Sony took the idea and made the Play Station. That's how it happened. Just because Sony made a new fancy disc format doesn't mean they thought up the idea for using discs as a storage medium for games.

[Split Infinity]

And this proves that Sony copied Nintendo...how?

[Zeypher]

Because his name is Toasty and he is toasted bread -_-

[Toasty]

Split Infinity, on Jun 5 2008, 10:39 PM, said:

And this proves that Sony copied Nintendo...how?

Because it was Nintendo's idea to begin with. It shouldn't take that much brain power to figure it out. -_-

Nintendo came up with the idea, and sony pretty much took the prototype periphreal, modified it, and sold it as the PS.

[Eugine]

http://en.wikipedia....ct_Disc#History

Now, read it before you continue to look stupid. Nintendo had nothing to do with the CD.

[Toasty]

*FACEPALM*

I never said Nintendo invented the freaking CD! I said they came up with the idea that later became the Play Station! Sony and Philips may have invented the CD together, but it was Nintendo's optical disc add-on that Sony based the Play Station on.

I've read that article before, Eugine. I'm not stupid. Quit misinterpreting things.

[Eugine]

Alright, my bad then.

http://en.wikipedia....station#History
Don't think it was copying anyway. Basically Nintendo approached Sony to design the stuff, but then walked away. Sony then just used what they made. Nintendo probably cries today.

[Split Infinity]

Exactly. They can't copy something they were working on.

[Caael]

AWESOME

[Zeypher]

You're all idiots. Except for Caael, of course.

[Split Infinity]

Er...if you flipped it around, it would still be pointing down.

[Caael]

He did a mirror image. Duh.

[Split Infinity]

I don't get it though, how is that funnier than the hundred times it's been done before?

[Caael]

Because it was pulled off in a good way. You're such a ****ing bellend, picking holes in everything.

[Eugine]

Zeypher, on Jun 6 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

You're all idiots. Except for Caael, of course.

I take offense to that Ray >__<

[Split Infinity]

Caael, on Jun 7 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

Because it was pulled off in a good way. You're such a ****ing bellend, picking holes in everything.

Sony doesn't instantly make something funny.

[Someone Else]

Sony fails because they made SecuROM.

[Caael]

Did I mention Sony? No so just **** off.

[Split Infinity]

You still haven't told me what's so funny about it though.

[Someone Else]

It's funny because it makes fun of Sony. Not everyone is going to find the same thing funny.

And Split, Caael's right, you pick holes in everything tooooo much.

[Eugine]

Yeah, he does... It's really annoying. Gosh, I wouldn't want to know someone like Split in school at all. I'll want to beat the shyt out of him everytime!!!

[Split Infinity]

You guys seem happy to ignore Caael's bashing of escout for the same thing...

Caael, on Jun 4 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

You seem to post the new comics for every single gaming webcomic every time they release a new one, commenting on how 'epic win' they are.

Stop. You have no taste.

[Someone Else]

Well he should shut up too.

Wind Dude, on Jun 6 2008, 05:16 PM, said:

Sony fails because they made SecuROM.

Eh? Eh?

[Caael]

Why does that have anything to do with anything? Do I post every single webcomic ever created from Dueling Analoges like Escout does from fanboys, claiming they're all epic win?

[Split Infinity]

You told him he has no taste. So why are you getting heated up over me telling you that your comics aren't funny?

[Golden Legacy]

Everyone, DROP IT.

So with E3 1.5 months away, let's start making predictions from the big three. What are you expecting, hoping to see?

[Eugine]

Wind Dude, on Jun 6 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

Sony fails because they made SecuROM.

This should have no effect on honest gamers what so ever. Plus, companies need to protect their property. Also, the PC gaming industry is plagued with pirating, it's about time someone tried to protect it.

Congrats Sony.

[Split Infinity]

SecuROM affects all gamers, Eugine.

[Eugine]

Yes, but it shouldn't really bother anyone who bought the real game. Well, unless there are known glitches in the software, and I know Sony, who love their customers are hard at work trying to perfect it.

[Split Infinity]

Love their customers? Heh...

http://en.wikipedia....#Known_problems

[Caael]

Split Infinity, on Jun 7 2008, 01:37 AM, said:

You told him he has no taste. So why are you getting heated up over me telling you that your comics aren't funny?

I'm not getting heated up over you thinking its not funny, but you have to be right the whole ****ing time, you'll never admit defeat. ****ing bellend, go catch cancer you thick ****.

[Split Infinity]

All I did was ask you what was funny, I thought maybe I'd missed something. I don't know how you managed to turn that around into a personal attack.

[Eugine]

Of course they do. Unlike Toasty, who think Sony hates their customers, I believe Sony has constantly proven they love us by delivering quality products.
Unfortunately, Sony is a newcomer in software market, so most of their software are lagging behind American companies, but soon we will see better DRM from Sony. They are most likely working hard on a DRM which will please both Sony and us.

[Caael]

There's a difference between caring for customers and caring for customers to make profit.

[Split Infinity]

They may not necessarily hate their customers, but quality products? Tell that to the people with malfunctioning PS2's and PSP owners with broken buttons.

[Eugine]

Those are manufacturing issues, which most likely are not controlled directly by Sony, but partners. Of course Sony are the ones to ultimately take the blame.

As we have already seen, fortunately, the PlayStation, all three btw, hardly have durability problems, and of course Sony has proven to provide great software to match the large lifespan. The PlayStation and PlayStation 2 are testaments of this. Contrary to Split's assertion, the PSP and PS2 has the largest lifespan in comparison to their competitors. Sony response to the PSP's broken buttons was unfortunate, and I am sure they have taken the correct measures to ensure the customers are not treated in any disrespect, and they have already made it clear, any offenses were not intentional.

And Caael, mind you, a business main goal is to make a profit. Nothing can be a business without the intent to make a profit. Sony is not a non-profit organisation.

[/end practice PR!]
ME SHUD WORK 4 SONY!!!

[Split Infinity]

You keep saying 'I'm sure Sony blah blah...', yet you never produce any evidence.

[Eugine]

Evidence sir? What evidence specifically do you need?

[Split Infinity]

Evidence that isn't just spoken opinion.

[Eugine]

So, you want proof of EVERYTHING I just typed there?

[Split Infinity]

Pretty much everything in the second paragraph, yeah...

[Eugine]

Take my word for it! Too lazy to Google now! xP!

[Caael]

*sings the bait song*

[Someone Else]

Eugine, on Jun 6 2008, 05:44 PM, said:

Yes, but it shouldn't really bother anyone who bought the real game.

Have you played a game with SecuROM in it? It's basically malware, and much of the time it limits the amount of installations you can have. And it doesn't stop piracy in the slightest. learn2research

[Eugine]

Yeah, BioShock comes with it.
It stops piracy because it doesn't allow copies to be made, something which shouldn't really bother someone who bought the real game. If you want to install it on another PC, simply uninstall it from the current system then install it on the other PC.

[Someone Else]

It doesn't stop cracks and people to download torrents. People still pirate Bioshock, I myself have pirated some Sims 2 expansions that supposedly had SecuROM in the retail package.

learn2research

[Eugine]

Well yeah, it doesn't. Hackers usually crack the software within days unfortunately. Ah well, work in progress.

[Split Infinity]

A work in progress isn't good enough. -_-

[Eugine]

Well, yeah. I dunno why people constantly tear apart the work those companies work hard for -__-
Oh well, I shouldn't be complaining about piracy since I pirate music like hell. Oh well, that's the only thing I pirate anyway >__<

[Zeypher]

This topic is about the current generation of home video game consoles.
Back on topic fools!

^^

[Eugine]

Be quiet.

Ok, don't be quiet...
So, how's your Wii Zeyp?

[Zeypher]

Fun -_-

[Eugine]

... but it's making weird noises...

[Zeypher]

I know, it's annoying as hell. I have to turn my TV volume up high, and I can still hear it.

[TheEnglishman]

I've gotta do that for my Xbox. At least, I've got to do it for GTA. The big reels of trumpet music from Medal of Honour are generally loud enough.

[Caael]

What are you guys complaining about? My 360 is pretty quiet, about as quiet as a DVD player. It makes loads of noise when loading a disk, but after that its fine.

[Split Infinity]

I wish I had a newer model of PS2, the one with the quieter fan...

[Laharl]

i didnt realise the noise a console mskes had a direct affect on gameplay

[Split Infinity]

It does if it annoys the heck out of you.

[TheEnglishman]

I remember the Dreamcast used to do it as well. Even the PS2 did, if I was playing Marvel vs Capcom 2.

[Laharl]

Split Infinity, on Jun 7 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

It does if you're easily irritated. and a retard.

fixed

[TheEnglishman]

I don't see what's with this cynical reaction Laharl. No one said it affected gameplay, just that it was annoying.

[Laharl]

Zeypher, on Jun 7 2008, 06:07 AM, said:

I know, it's annoying as hell. I have to turn my TV volume up high, and I can still hear it.

Me111, on Jun 7 2008, 07:18 AM, said:

I've gotta do that for my Xbox. At least, I've got to do it for GTA. The big reels of trumpet music from Medal of Honour are generally loud enough.

Split Infinity, on Jun 7 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

I wish I had a newer model of PS2, the one with the quieter fan...

whine whine whine

dont complain about something if you dont want your view on it challenged

[TheEnglishman]

Yes, but you aren't challenging the view, you're just trying to make some sort of arguement out of a little complaint.
Besides that quote you took from me never said that the noise affected gameplay, just that the volume needed to be higher. It's not like the noise is so deafening, I lose my ability to play games.

[Laharl]

well, it'd have to irritating you to some extent or you wouldnt bother mentioning it.

anyway im not getting into a Caael/Zephyr style arguement so think what you want

[TheEnglishman]

Fair enough. I'm not the sort to hold out an arguement for a long time anyway.

[Zeypher]

Laharl, on Jun 7 2008, 08:44 AM, said:

whine whine whine

dont complain about something if you dont want your view on it challenged

Hypocrite.

[Toasty]

Eugine, on Jun 6 2008, 06:06 PM, said:

Those are manufacturing issues, which most likely are not controlled directly by Sony, but partners. Of course Sony are the ones to ultimately take the blame.

As we have already seen, fortunately, the PlayStation, all three btw, hardly have durability problems, and of course Sony has proven to provide great software to match the large lifespan. The PlayStation and PlayStation 2 are testaments of this. Contrary to Split's assertion, the PSP and PS2 has the largest lifespan in comparison to their competitors. Sony response to the PSP's broken buttons was unfortunate, and I am sure they have taken the correct measures to ensure the customers are not treated in any disrespect, and they have already made it clear, any offenses were not intentional.

And Caael, mind you, a business main goal is to make a profit. Nothing can be a business without the intent to make a profit. Sony is not a non-profit organisation.

[/end practice PR!]
ME SHUD WORK 4 SONY!!!

Yes, you should. Then Sony would crash and burn, and cease to exist. Thus ridding the world of the horrible service they provide.

Anyway, if it was a manufacturing defect, then how come they haven't simply up'd their quality control standards? *coughmoneywhorescough*

Regardless, it's not a manufacturing defect. The button on the PSP that breaks is positioned poorly on the PCB. It's to far to the right for it to be pressed down correctly, and so it doesn't work properly. Even after countless numbers of people have complained about it, Sony has yet to fix the problem.

Reliablility? What about all of the PS2's that can't read discs anymore? The laser failed, and it can't properly read the disc. It may have happened after a few years of use, but I've had my GameCube for at least four years now, and it's still working fine. I have yet to ever hear people having problems with their N64's. VERY RARELY will you ever hear about someone having problems with their Wii's (the clicking noise is the laser moving and scanning the disc, from what I understand).

The origional Playstations had faulty sled tracks for the laser, which caused it to skip. Though this is one of the very rare times when Sony has fixed the problem, as later releases had a die-cast sled.

Out of the three, I believe Nintendo has the best quality track record, followed by Sony, with Microsoft lagging a ways behind (they're catching up though).

[Aquamarine]

Reliability? You want to talk about reliability!? I'll tell you just how "reliable" Nintendo's consoles are... My GameCube got screwed up after about a year. It began to often read discs only on my second inserting of it. Later on in its life, it became worse. Sometimes it could happen that the stupid thing wouldn't read the disc AT ALL. I got the laser cleaned about 3 times and after a few months teh same **** would start over. Finally, I got the laser completely changed, and only then did it start to function properly.

Then comes the Wii. A console that apparently has something like 0,1 ****ING PERCENT of being defected. Well guess what? MY ****ING WII IS DEFECTED! Just like with the GC before it, sometimes it won't read discs right away, and it used to not read them at all sometimes. It's quite a lot better now though, even though I didn't take it to get fixed, but I know the problems will resurface. GC had some periods of time when it worked perfectly.

It's all the ****ing laser's fault. I wish they brought back cartridges. The N64 was amazing, never a single break down.

Anyhow, so much for reliability...

[Someone Else]

I think Nintendo's products are reliable. Except for the DS Lite hinge crack thing.

[Toasty]

Aquamarine, on Jun 7 2008, 01:39 PM, said:

Reliability? You want to talk about reliability!? I'll tell you just how "reliable" Nintendo's consoles are... My GameCube got screwed up after about a year. It began to often read discs only on my second inserting of it. Later on in its life, it became worse. Sometimes it could happen that the stupid thing wouldn't read the disc AT ALL. I got the laser cleaned about 3 times and after a few months teh same **** would start over. Finally, I got the laser completely changed, and only then did it start to function properly.

Then comes the Wii. A console that apparently has something like 0,1 ****ING PERCENT of being defected. Well guess what? MY ****ING WII IS DEFECTED! Just like with the GC before it, sometimes it won't read discs right away, and it used to not read them at all sometimes. It's quite a lot better now though, even though I didn't take it to get fixed, but I know the problems will resurface. GC had some periods of time when it worked perfectly.

It's all the ****ing laser's fault. I wish they brought back cartridges. The N64 was amazing, never a single break down.

Anyhow, so much for reliability...

You're actually the first person I've heard of who's had real problems with their GC, or Wii for that matter. The only problem I ever had with my GC was it's lid not closing. I had to pull the little lock thingy out because it stuck. Doesn't even do that anymore, though. Works fine.

Anyway, it seems to me like you were just unlucky. Do you know anyone else who's had these problems (or others)?

And I've dropped my DS so many times I can't begin to count. It continued to work perfectly all the way up until I lost it. That's about 2 years, I think. Maybe 3. I know a friend who's DS Lite's hinge cracked, but that's the only problem I've ever heard of as far as the handhelds go.

[Someone Else]

At any rate Nintendo's products are still more reliable than the other two, with Microsoft's BreakBOX 360 and Sony's products that are notorious for shattering when dropped from a distance above 4 feet give or take, also, PS2 disk read errors. The original DS is like a tank. XD I could use it as a weapon and it would probably work fine.

[Toasty]

I think Nintendo took an A1 Abrums, gutted it, shrunk it, and put the DS's guts inside it.

[Eugine]

The GC was durable, but what's the point having a system for 10 years with only 10 good games?

[Zeypher]

Wind Dude, on Jun 7 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

I think Nintendo's products are reliable. Except for the DS Lite hinge crack thing.

I threw mine at my brother and gave him a black eye =D

[Toasty]

Eugine, on Jun 7 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

The GC was durable, but what's the point having a system for 10 years with only 10 good games?

Because you'll still have hair afterwards.

[Eugine]

Yeah, with no games to play.

[Toasty]

Quality over quamtity, and hair over baldness. That's my way of life.

[Eugine]

The PS2 had better quality games, and a better quality system. In the end, an electronic item lifespan depends on the owner.

[Toasty]

It may depend on the owner to an extent. But if the owner uses it normally, say, twice a week, and it broke down on him after a few months of being used with perfect care taken, then the console was faulty, and it's the designer/manufacturer's fault.

The PS2's laser wasn't built well. Saying that the console is built like a tank is like saying global warming is caused by carbon emissions. No matter how many times you say it, it still isn't true.

If you dropped a PS2 from 10 feet, it'll shatter. If you drop a GC from 10 feet, it'll still be in perfect working condition. THAT is quality.

[Caael]

No, thats strength. Quality is aesthetics and the like, not how many hits it can take.

[Eugine]

Right, and do people really care about that? Come on, normal people wouldn't be throwing their system 10 feet down.

[Toasty]

Fine. Quality is not breaking down from normal use easily. Just because something looks nice and has a lot of features doesn't mean it's high quality. It means it looks nice and has a lot of features.

Quality is the ability to stand the test of time without failing (or with very few minor problems, since nothing's perfect).

[Eugine]

And the PS2 had good quality. The failure rate is probably in tune with the consumer electronic hardware failure rate.

I wouldn't doubt the GC was more durable though.

[Ironsight]

Eugine, on Jun 7 2008, 05:41 PM, said:

And the PS2 had good quality.

You're ****ing kidding me, right?

[Eugine]

Of course not, dear.

I personally had the original PS2 from 2000-2004 when I got the disc read error. I then got the slim, and it works fine. I honestly blame myself for the disc read error since it fell from a shelf (it was after a hurricane here, so I had to pack everything away o.o)

[TheEnglishman]

Going back to reliability, my sister's boyfriend's 360 died. What's strange though is that he got an Elite after the first time he got the 3 red lights, which I'd heard fixed the problem.

[Toasty]

Yeah, the Elites have the CPU built on the 65nm process which runs cooler. The GPU is still made with the 90nm process though. That's reduced the number of console failures, but they're still failing. The next hardware revision will use the 64nm process on the GPU, and after that, the CPU and GPU might be integrated into one chip. Further reducing production costs (cheaper 360's ftw), and improve the durability of the console.

[Ironsight]

Black Xbox's look pretty damn awesome too.

[Zeypher]

The XBox had such a lame design...a black box with an X on it...

[Nosferatu]

As opposed to a purple cube and a black monolith?

I think they were all lacking design personally. But who cares. Games > Design of system.

[Split Infinity]

Going back a few posts, my PS2 only has trouble reading one game, a dual-layer disc, and I usually only have to restart it once. It's a SCPH-30000, one of the earliest models you can get. And besides, how can you argue about quality when you're talking about the hands-down winner of the last console generation?

Anyway, game consoles have been having these sort of problems ever since they started using discs. No piece of hardware is perfect. The more complex it is, the more problems it's likely to have. And Toasty, if somebody drops their console any more than about 30 centimetres, they pretty much deserve to have it broken.

But on the subject of durability, my GBA SP is just about the sturdiest object known to man. I've dropped, smashed and thrown it more times than I can remember, and the worst thing that's ever happened is the game froze. Unlike my iriver, which got a broken screen when somebody kicked it. :(

[Toasty]

The PS2 won the last generation because of it's ginormous librarys of good games. The GC's library sucked, and the Xbox's was somewhere inbetween. The "console wars" are almost entirely decided by the games that each system offers. It has very little to do with the consoles themselves, other than what they allow developers to do with games.
Few people will buy/have bought the PS3 because it plays blu-ray discs, for example. That I can be sure of, because 'hardcore' gamers, the audience the PS3 is directed at, don't care so much about watching movies in high-def as they do playing awesome games.

And obviously, anyone who drops their console more than 30 centimeters is asking for a broken console. But over time, normal wear and tear will wear out a PS2 faster than a GC. Older hardware tends to be more durable.

[Split Infinity]

I'd have to disagree with you on sentence four; I think the Wii can attribute most of its sales to its unique control scheme, especially in the case of casual gamers.

And like I said, the more complex a system is, the more problems you'll have with it. The PS2 was a much more advanced piece of hardware than the GCN in any case.

[Eugine]

Toasty, on Jun 8 2008, 04:56 AM, said:

Few people will buy/have bought the PS3 because it plays blu-ray discs, for example. That I can be sure of, because 'hardcore' gamers, the audience the PS3 is directed at, don't care so much about watching movies in high-def as they do playing awesome games.

Stupes.

[Laharl]

Zeypher, on Jun 7 2008, 06:20 PM, said:

Hypocrite.

i do want my views challenged moron, to generate discussion, you know the whole point of a forum.

[Toasty]

Split Infinity, on Jun 8 2008, 02:25 AM, said:

I'd have to disagree with you on sentence four; I think the Wii can attribute most of its sales to its unique control scheme, especially in the case of casual gamers.

And like I said, the more complex a system is, the more problems you'll have with it. The PS2 was a much more advanced piece of hardware than the GCN in any case.

The funny thing is, is that the GC even had more horsepower than the PS2. The GC was more powerful than the PS2, more durable, heck, it was even cheaper and cost less to produce. But the support for it wasn't anywhere near the level of support the PS2 got. Because the PS2 had far more games than the GC, it won.

[Caael]

Nintendo had **** all in the name of advertising for Gamecube.

[Zeypher]

I've never seen a GCN advertisment.

[Toasty]

I've seen a few. They kinda sucked. Hard.

And I'll agree that's one reason why the GC failed, but people still wouldn't have bought the PS2 unless it had games they wanted to play,

[Eugine]

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/06/08/spoile...-insert-disc-2/
lmao. Direct burn to the 360 xP

[Caael]

Rofl! I love snakes reaction :(

[Zeypher]

lmao, too bad he didn't say "Oh that's right, MGS4 isn't on a 360".

[Golden Legacy]

They couldn't include an actual direct reference to 360, since that would violate copyright violations and Microsoft would be after Konami/Sony for including it.

Still, absolutely hilarious, LOL!

[Split Infinity]

Toasty, on Jun 9 2008, 06:57 AM, said:

The funny thing is, is that the GC even had more horsepower than the PS2. The GC was more powerful than the PS2, more durable, heck, it was even cheaper and cost less to produce. But the support for it wasn't anywhere near the level of support the PS2 got. Because the PS2 had far more games than the GC, it won.

Madness! Well, Wikipedia agrees with you...

And the video doesn't work.

[Zeypher]

Yup, the PS2 is proof that the most powerful consoles don't always win.

[Golden Legacy]

The difference between PS2 and GameCube wasn't huge. The GC had more complex textures, the PS2 had slightly more theoretical processing power (or in general, the GameCube could produce far prettier polygons while the PS2 could produce more, but slightly less detailed polygons).

In other words, on a scale of 1 to 5:

PS2: 1.35
GameCube: 1.85
Xbox: 4.50

[Split Infinity]

Er...why didn't you just start at 1?

[Toasty]

Why do you ask pointless questions?

[Eugine]

SUCK IT XBOX FANBOYS!
http://ps3.ign.com/a...1/881472p5.html

Well, well. I had little doubts, but I'll be getting a PS3 during this summer. Oh well, no Brawl until next year. I can only buy one <_<

[Zeypher]

MGS isn't even that good of a franchise.

[Eugine]

=_=
MGS is actually one of my favourite series ever. Well, honestly I only played the 2nd and 3rd, but both were excellent.
Epic in everyway!

I'm sure people will be pounding IGN for giving two 10s so close together. Ah well... SUCK IT. <3

[Laharl]

Zeypher, on Jun 13 2008, 04:44 AM, said:

MGS isn't even that good of a franchise.

please be quiet

[Someone Else]

To be honest so far I'm a bit underwhelmed by MGS4. So far there's been a large emphasis on shooting and the map is almost worthless. The controls are waay better though. But what the hell is up with Snake's butt?!

[Nosferatu]

http://www.lolwut.com/pics/bestplatform.png

This post has been approved by WD.

[Zeypher]

So true.

[Caael]

Rofl saved.

[Golden Legacy]

Latest figures show that the Wii has surpassed the 360 in North America.

I also found this interesting post on GameSpot:

You can voice your opinions on which console is the best until you're blue in the face, but you're overlooking one indisputable fact: More people own or want a Wii. Period.

And the "hardcore vs.casual" argument is moot. A gamer is someone who plays games. Wii gamers are still gamers. "Hardcore" is a question of genre, not a definition of a gamer.

Lastly, the price difference is less than $100 now. That's not much when you're looking to spend $500+ regardless of which console you buy. So that's not a valid argument either.

[Zeypher]

I don't know a single "casual" Wii gamer tbth.

[Caael]

And I dont know a single 'hardcore' wii gamer. Your point being?

[Someone Else]

I don't know any casual Wii gamers either. I don't know who Nintendo's trying to appeal to.

[Zeypher]

Caael, on Jul 21 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

And I dont know a single 'hardcore' wii gamer. Your point being?

You know me...

[Legolastom]

Lol. But why would you know a casual Wii gamer? If they were a casual Wii gamer they wouldnt care, thus they wouldnt really talk about the Wii or go online to look up anything about it.

And what retard said that GL?

[Golden Legacy]

This article, one of the comments on the bottom of the page.

And I'm not defending or criticizing the point, I just thought it was an interesting comment.

[TheEnglishman]

I wouldn't say the sales overtaking is surprising. After all, mass marketing a product is always going to result in more sales if you can get people behind it.

[Toasty]

*lolbump*

After reading through some articles about how the 360 and PS3 (and the PS2) work, I have this to say:

The PS3 is more powerful than the 360, but like the PS2, it's architecture is wierd and crazy, and hard as heck to code for. The 360 on the other hand might not be as powerful as the PS3, but it is by far easier to code for because of it's architecture's similarities to an average PC's archecture (x86 and x86/64).

The PS2, despite having worse specs than even the Gamecube, had the more horsepower than the Xbox because it had a crapload of....things. These things allowed te PS2 to really make polygons fly out of it's ass like Sony claimed it could. That's why FF was able to look so good.

What makes the PS2 and PS3 so different, though, is the way they hand;e information. A typical computer will store the information in the system's cache's (like the CPU or GPU's cache) and hold it there for as long as the data is needed. It then moves this data over relatively small busses. The PS2 and PS3 however, have huge fat busses that can carry a lot of data, but really small cache's. So the data is rarely held in one place and worked on for long. It's constantly being moved around. The latter is better for gaming because unlike non-media type applications, apps that require 3D rendering need to be fed data much faster.

Let me quote an analogy by a guy from Ars Technica to make things a little clearer:

Quote

Here's a goofy example to help you visualize what I'm talking about: imagine a series of large buckets, connected by pipes to a main tank, with a cow lapping water out of each bucket. Since cows don't drink too fast, the pipes don't have to be too large to keep the buckets full and the cows happy. Now imagine that same setup, except with elephants on the other end instead of cows. The elephants are sucking water out so fast that you've got to do something drastic to keep them happy. One option would be to enlarge the pipes just a little (*cough* AGP *cough*), and stick insanely large buckets on the ends of them (*cough* 64MB GeForce *cough*). You then fill the buckets up to the top every morning, leave the water on all day, and pray to God that the elephants don't get too thirsty. This only works to a certain extent though, because a really thirsty elephant would still end up draining the bucket faster than you can fill it. And what happens when the elephants have kids, and the kids are even thirstier? You're only delaying the inevitable with this solution, because the problem isn't with the buckets, it's with the pipes (assuming an infinite supply of water). A better approach would be to just ditch the buckets altogether and make the pipes really, really large. You'd also want to stick some pans on the ends of the pipes as a place to collect the water before it gets consumed, but the pans don't have to be that big because the water isn't staying in them very long.

Regardless, I still think the PS3 gets too much praise, and I still hate Sony.

......and I still kinda want a PS3.

[Drizzy Drake]

if you get it ashley we can play cod4 together while we make out :P. we're lezbo's dont youse guys know?

[Split Infinity]

What games would you want to play on a PS3, Toasty? That should affect your decision more than anything else. Well, except money.

[Toasty]

Only a few. I'd actually be more inlcined to buy a 360 first though.

[Caael]

Bump for this:

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh8/rallyracer07/consolechartyr2yb6.jpg

[Split Infinity]

Too true.

[Toasty]

Guess I should've bought a 360. :D

[Split Infinity]

Who needs friends when you have POWER?

[Nosferatu]

Split Infinity, on Nov 29 2008, 10:54 PM, said:

Who needs friends?

Corrected.

I don't get why the hell PC is where it is though. PS3 makes perfect sense.

[Caael]

Toasty, on Nov 30 2008, 07:43 AM, said:

Guess I should've bought a 360. :P

No you just need a PS3

[Toasty]

PS3 doesn;t have enough games for it that I want to warrant the price tag. The 360 is much more reasonable.

[Caael]

I was on about the chart, and you having no friends.

[Toasty]

The chart is meant to point out each console's strength's:

Wii is good for party games
360 is good for online multiplayer
PS3 is good for single player games

I happen to have a lot of friends who own 360's and play online. The 360 would be the obvious choice for me.

[TheEnglishman]

Toasty, on Nov 30 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

The chart is meant to point out each console's strength's:

Wii is good for party games
360 is good for online multiplayer
PS3 is good for single player games

I happen to have a lot of friends who own 360's and play online. The 360 would be the obvious choice for me.

He's not basing it on any of that, he's just saying you have no friends.
I'd be tempted to put the Wii in the PC slot...

[Caael]

Toasty, on Nov 30 2008, 12:33 PM, said:

The chart is meant to point out each console's strength's:

Wii is good for party games
360 is good for online multiplayer
PS3 is good for single player games

I happen to have a lot of friends who own 360's and play online. The 360 would be the obvious choice for me.

Yes and I wasn't being serious. Lighten up.

[Laharl]

console wars are srsbsns

[Split Infinity]

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2585/cwarvm9.png

[TheEnglishman]

I'd pay to see a real life version of that. Not very much but I'd still pay.

[Split Infinity]

You can join the Gamespot forums for free, actually.

[TheEnglishman]

Or I might not.
Ok guys, which console is going to do best this Christmas in terms of games?

[Caael]

Wii...

Wii Fit is back in stock, so i'm guessing that will be the top selling product this christmas. If not that, sadly Wii music will sell as well.

[Golden Legacy]

Actually, Wii Music bombed. It didn't even break the top ten.
Guess these titles don't sell if there's no accessory attached, no?

[Toasty]

I can't remember if Conduit will be out by christmas or not, but if it is, I'd expect it to sell pretty well.

[Caael]

Toasty, on Nov 30 2008, 11:23 PM, said:

I can't remember if Conduit will be out by christmas or not, but if it is, I'd expect it to sell pretty well.

Doubt it. Despite being more innovative than the usual stuff on Wii, the 3rd party games dont sell as well.

Anything with "Wii" in the title will sell thousands.

[Ironsight]

TheEnglishman, on Nov 30 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

Or I might not.
Ok guys, which console is going to do best this Christmas in terms of games?

Did you really need to ask?

[Split Infinity]

Wii Sports: Holiday Edition

[Caael]

Split Infinity, on Dec 1 2008, 12:29 AM, said:

Wii Sports: Holiday Edition

*cries*

[Toasty]

So true....

[Split Infinity]

Guess I spoke too soon.

http://en.wikipedia....i_Sports_Resort

[Toasty]

You mean you didn't hear about it at Nintendo's E3 conference?

It's where they introduced their new high precision add-on thingamajig that should've been built into the controller from the get-go.

[Split Infinity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUecpesjiHM...related#t=5m53s

Bleh, deep linking doesn't work as well I thought it would.

[Golden Legacy]

What better way to revive this topic than with:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/650985/wii_v...3_vs_x_box_360/

[Ironsight]

Golden Legacy, on Apr 24 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

What better way to revive this topic than with:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/650985/wii_v...3_vs_x_box_360/

Reminds me of this movie scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_CSrsALUek...feature=related

[Toasty]

Drizzy Drake, on Jul 15 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

Okay now by comparison

.hack//G.U. Vol. 1//Rebirth
.hack//G.U. Vol. 2//Reminisce
.hack//G.U. Vol. 3//Redemption
.hack Part 1: Infection
.hack Part 2: Mutation
.hack Part 3: Outbreak
.hack Part 4: Quarantine
Dark Cloud
Dark Cloud 2
Disgaea
Disgaea 2
Final Fantasy 10
Final Fantasy 12
Grandia 3
Kingdom Hearts
Kingdom Hearts 2
Marvel Vs. Capcom 2
Persona 3
Persona 3 FES
Persona 4
Valkyrie Profile 2
Xenosaga
Gran Turismo 3
God Of War
God Of War 2
Rachet And Clank
Jak And Daxter
Jak 2
Jak 3
Devil May Cry
DMC 2
DMC 3
Soul Caliber 3
Yakuza
Metal Gear Solid 3
Tales Of Destiny 2
Guilty Gear XX: Accent Core Plus
Guitar Hero
Socom 1
Socom 2
Monster Hunter
NBA Street
Suikoden 3
and apperently Tales Of Symphonia is on PS2 so 8 kid
Tales Of Destiny (remake)
Klonoa 2
Megamn X7
Minight Club

Yeah, except half of those are sequels. =P

And besides that, you didn't say "Name as many must buy games on the GC as the PS2," you said "name 10 must buy games for the GC"

Which I did. Depending on who looks at the list of course. :P