[Linear]

It was a mistake for me to read this. ._.; *excited for SSBB*
If I was ranked...from a scale from one to ten...I might be a...five. ._. Or a seven...or a six!
o.O I remember in Summer School that some of my friends and I were playing SSBM... >w< And I owned all of them.
And then there was a battle when everyone was Roy...which was confusing.

[Golden Legacy]

Linear comes back to post the 1400th reply in this topic. Touche. ;)

And Aquamarine, when did Sakurai ever say that he wouldn't put a ranking system? Doesn't the DS have something similar for its games, so why couldn't the Wii?

[TheEnglishman]

A ranking system would be pretty cool, though not for people like me who'd be near the bottom.

[Aquamarine]

Golden Legacy, on Oct 29 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

Linear comes back to post the 1400th reply in this topic. Touche. ;)

And Aquamarine, when did Sakurai ever say that he wouldn't put a ranking system? Doesn't the DS have something similar for its games, so why couldn't the Wii?

Er... Linears post is the 1401st post. SoT is the lucky 1400th poster. SoT again...

I can't remember where I saw that, but I know I did. Just check out Smashboards and you're bound to find it somewhere.

[Toasty]

Aqua, the parent post doesn't count.

There will probably be one on nintendo's Wifi site, like there is for MP:H.

[Aquamarine]

Oh yeah, forgot about the parent post...

If there was a ranking of how good everyone is on Nintendo's site that would be good, but I think it would be even better if it was just in the game. It wouldn't be hard to implement, so WHY doesn't Sakurai want it? That was actually one of the things I was most looking forward to about Brawl...

[pHantOm]

I think Nintendo wants to keep the game friendly, and not to have "clans" start sprouting up that go around in noob servers beating the **** out of noobs and raising thier rank.

[Aquamarine]

Yeah, you're probably right, and I respect that desicion. They also probably want less cheating, which there will certainly be less of if there isn't a ranking system. Nvertheless, ME WANT IT!!!

[Sea of Time]

But why? I doubt anyone from American will be anywhere near the top. It'll be all those dang Japanese people. What with their amazing video game skills, and WiFi ability, they could take over the world!

[Caael]

Well, they already have XD

Read a report on SSBB today. Cant remember the details, but it was interesting. Something about 50+ new items being in there, and a lot more levels.

[Golden Legacy]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like a link to that. 50+ items is very impressive indeed.

[Sea of Time]

It is. We haven't put too much consideration into items. Are there any items that may have been introduced in any of the latest Nintendo games?

[Toasty]

Sea_of_Time, on Oct 30 2006, 10:46 AM, said:

But why? I doubt anyone from American will be anywhere near the top. It'll be all those dang Japanese people. What with their amazing video game skills, and WiFi ability, they could take over the world!

Just wait. I wouldn't be surprised if one of us turned out to be in the top 100 or even 10. Keep in mind that there will be thousands of people playing SSBB, so being ranked 100th best in the world is still something to brag about.

[Aquamarine]

Sea_of_Time, on Oct 30 2006, 07:46 PM, said:

But why? I doubt anyone from American will be anywhere near the top. It'll be all those dang Japanese people. What with their amazing video game skills, and WiFi ability, they could take over the world!

The best Marth player in the world(I think he's actually THE best player in the world, not sure about that) is called Ken. Does that sound like a Japanese name? :D Anyway, Diddy probably knows the names and locations of all the top players in the world, so he could tell us.

50+ new items? That would rock! Throw out about half of the old items(since some are really unneeded, especially the ones like Fire Flower and Parasol which just mimic a characters move) and add a ton of new ones.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Err no I don't... XD Ken's nickname would be SephirothKen and yes he mains Marth. He's American and he does well in Japanese tournaments. I heard he once even 3 stocked the best Falco player of Japan.

My personal Smash hero would be Captain Jack. Who is an AWESOME Donkey Kong player. He however is Japanese but he goes to alot of international tournaments in Europe and America to. Just search on youtube for videos of him. :)

About this World Ranking thing, I doubt many of the current top players would even be in the top 50. Top 100 perhaps, but Brawl is gonna be a whole diffrent game than Melee.

First of all, it's obvious that some characters are gonna be nerfed. You guys all love playing Marth right? Funny, because here in Europe he isn't half as populair thanks to slighly nerfing. Also Fox and Sheik where nerfed in PAL, and Bowser was slightly buffed because they added extra weight on him. Mario is also lighter than Luigi in PAL, and there are many small diffrences like that...

And 50+ items? Are you sure? :D That's just plain awesome! Btw I like it how they made the Nintendog an item. Nintendogs is very populair, and I never would dare think it would make an item in Super Smash Bros. But 50+ items is REALLY much! I personally would like a item similair to the Pokéball, an Animal Crate from Donkey Kong Country. You would carry it as if it is a crate or barrel, but when you throw it an animal buddy from Donkey Kong Country would attack the other character(s).

EDIT: ZOMFG ZOMFG ZOMFG!!!!! NEW TRAILER OVER 2 DAYS! :) YES!!! *crosses fingers for Diddy*

[Aquamarine]

WHAT!? NEW TRAILER!? IN 2 DAYS!? HOW THE HECK DO YOU KNOW!?!? NEVERTHELESS, I CAN'T BLOODY WAIT!!!!

I'm glad I have the PAL Melee where Marth, Fox and Sheik aren't as powerful.

NEW TRAILER OMG!!!

EDIT: I just saw the topic on Smashboards OMFG! But I hope they don't show any new chararcters. Actually, I hope they don't show any secret, unlockable chararcters.

[Sea of Time]

They'd better show us some new characters, I don't care if they're secret or not. Can't wait for the new trailer!

[I'm Always BROKE]

Who cares if they are secret!? We are gonna know about them anyways, also Sakurai said Snake will likely be an unlockable character to so...

Anyways... OMFG NEW TRAILERRRRRRRRR!!

[Sea of Time]

There'd better be new characters. I hate when they release new trailers that are virtually pointless. How long do you think it will be? And how do you know there will be a new trailer?

[Aquamarine]

If they don't show any new characters then the trailer is pointless? If they show us some new arenas, items, moves for Wario, MetaKnight and the others and some of the returning characters from Melee, I really don't see how that can be a pointless trailer. Smash Bros. isn't made only of a collection of characters you know.

I do want to see some new characters, but only if they're not secret. Before I bought Melee I saw on the net who all the playable fighters are and I was sad that I did, since I would have loved to be totally surprised when fighting Ganondorf and Mewtwo for the first time. That's why I won't be finding out who the secret chars. in Brawl are.

[Caael]

Golden Legacy, on Oct 30 2006, 08:59 PM, said:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like a link to that. 50+ items is very impressive indeed.

It was a magazine, so no can do. Sorry.

[My Best Wishes]

How do you know there is a new trailer, and where would it be shown?

[I'm Always BROKE]

Smashboards says so. Also it's on the Japanese site. :D

[Toasty]

Yeah, but only if you can read Japanese. I'm looking forward to it. :D

[Sea of Time]

Aquamarine, on Oct 31 2006, 04:33 PM, said:

I do want to see some new characters, but only if they're not secret. Before I bought Melee I saw on the net who all the playable fighters are and I was sad that I did, since I would have loved to be totally surprised when fighting Ganondorf and Mewtwo for the first time. That's why I won't be finding out who the secret chars. in Brawl are.

Frankly, I don't care what characters are shown. I'd like to see Isaac in the trailer, even if he is an unlockable character. After all this waiting, wouldn't you?

[Aquamarine]

Sea_of_Time, on Nov 1 2006, 07:54 PM, said:

Frankly, I don't care what characters are shown. I'd like to see Isaac in the trailer, even if he is an unlockable character. After all this waiting, wouldn't you?

Er... No. I mean no, I wouldn't want to see secret characters, but yes I would want to see Isaac and many others(considering they're not unlockable). They probably won't show secret chars. before the game is released though, since they didn't do that for Melee. And Diddy, Sakurai said he wants Snake to be unlockable, that doesn't have to mean he will be in the end. Though who knows, he just might be. I hope he's not, since he has already been shown.

If anyone wants proof about this new trailer:

http://wii.ign.com/a...2/742811p1.html

Who thinks Sonic will be shown in the trailer? I do!

[I'm Always BROKE]

I think it will be more like the Melee Trailer, which showed all of the characters you could pick at the beginning of the game. And because it's Brawl afterall, maybe they'll show us some new characters which are available from the start? :D

[Golden Legacy]

Very exciting news indeed.

However, to be fair, it sounds as though all we'll see is more of the same characters (including the ones revealed back at E3). It may not even be a video trailer, according to the Smash Boards forums, but instead might simply be a slideshow.

Still, something to look forward to.

[I'm Always BROKE]

No I don't really expect to see other new characters being revealed anytime soon. I honestly am more intressted in how older characters look and how they play like. And Sakurai please... No Toothy Grin for DK. u_u

[Caael]

Nothing new on the Brawl website :D

http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/...ssage.id=850402

Rofl!

[Toasty]

There's nothing there.....

Watch the Spam. - GL

[Caael]

on what? The URL is just somethign I found while searchign for Brawl that made me laugh, but it doesnt work.

[Toasty]

Ah, well, I guess that wrong adress screen is a bit amusing.

So does anyon know if the trailer is out yet? It's been two days hasn't it?

[I'm Always BROKE]

News Flash: Fox is confirmed.

[Aquamarine]

Damnit! I can't watch the ****ing trailer! But it seems there is a Mario Kart stage, a Yoshi's Island arena(wich pretty much means Yoshi will be in the game, even though we all knew that alraedy). Destructable arenas? Day and night? Have you seen the trailer Diddy? Can you please tell us everything new?

EDIT: I've just seen the trailer. Not as good as the first one but still... It's teh pwnage! Pit's arena seems to be the only one with destructible platforms. I hate Fox's new look... He's totally ugly now.

[Sothe]

Here's a link to the trailer, in case anyone hasn't seen it.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qIVaoacBAbs

As was stated above, the only new character is Fox (If he even counts as a new character).

[Caael]

Fox looks way better, the old one looked GEH with his puffy trousers. This pwns, now I have seen Pit in action. * explodes* I WANT THIS GAME SO BAD!

[Sea of Time]

Must.....get.....to.......youtube.

I'm so watching this trailer when I get home! And I think it was kind of a foregone conclusion that Fox would be in this game.

[Caael]

Well fox has been in the past 2 games, but i'm glad he's had a make-over. But no diddy and no Lyn. Bugger.

[Sea of Time]

That doesn't mean they're not in the game.

I think I missed the whole Lyn discussion, but she would be awesome in that game!

[Sothe]

In the first Trailer, there is a Castle with the Daein flag under attack (Presumably the capital of Daein, Nevassa). If a Fire Emblem level makes it in to the game, then there will almost definately be at least one FE character. Granted, since it's from Path of Radiance, the character most likely will be too (Or maybe Goddess of Dawn). Still an FE character though.

I'd say Ike has the best chance, or maybe Mikaya or Sothe from FE10. Eliwood might replace Roy, but I really don't think Lyn or Hector will make it.

[Caael]

I want another Girl fighter, one who fights with swords, not crappy magic or vegetables. Lyn was just the first person to come to mind when I thought of that.

I doubt that will be the last trailer, as its almost a year until it comes out, so I expect more characters.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Caael, on Nov 3 2006, 10:47 PM, said:

I want another Girl fighter, one who fights with swords, not crappy magic or vegetables. Lyn was just the first person to come to mind when I thought of that.

Zero Suit Samus?

[Sea of Time]

No...that's really not what he was talking about. I'd like to see a sword-bearing lass...but not for the reasons you're thinking.

[Golden Legacy]

Guys, what was significant about the trailer wasn't the new character that was revealed (Fox), it more importantly showed a lot more gameplay of the game.

[My Best Wishes]

Some of those maps looked good. Happy to see they kept the Pokemon level, that become my second favourite after they turned Hyrule castle into Hyrule temple, talk about a big level.

[Toasty]

I like that Zelda looking map that was in the sky. The one with the crumbling platforms? That one's pretty cool.

[Caael]

@ Toasty: I think that was meant to be Pit's level. It had some kind of temple in the background.

It did show more of the gameplay, I love Snakes, what it looks to be, down B/A move. Gets out a rocket launcher and fires it down. I didnt expect any less.

[quote]No...that's really not what he was talking about. I'd like to see a sword-bearing lass...but not for the reasons you're thinking.[/qoute]
I want a sword bearing gal because they are always very good in the games, Like FE and GS ( jenna) and it would be a nice touch to SSB, rather than having Wimpy princesses. Zero Suit Samus looks a great addition, but I want a proper Sword fighter gal.

[Toasty]

Yeah, I noticed the rocket launcher too. It's kind of origonal how he fires it at the ground instead of at somebody. I hope he gets a grenade launcher. =D

[Aquamarine]

Since Zelda is going to have a sword in TP she might have it in Brawl. Problem solved Caael!
Anyway, I'm betting anything Krystal will be in the game, and that's another female character. As for FE females I would like the new main girl character from the Wii Fire Emblem, Godess of Dawn(I think that's the name). She's a mage with a staff, and she looks totally awesome.

Anyway, I quite liked Fox's really cool face in Melee. In my opinion he is ugly now. But why did they show so little of him?

I think it's a great idea to have a Mario Kart arena. It is a shame though that they just took the Mute City concept with the vehicles driving towards you, instead of making something new.
I already think Pit will be one of my fave fighters. He is just the kind of fighter I like.

[Sothe]

Bleh, I was never a big fan of Krystal, but she and Wolf are the most likely Star Fox characters. As long as she uses her staff from Star Fox Adventures and isn't another Fox clone, she's fine with me, I guess... Still probably wouldn't use her much.

As far as Golden Sun characters go, I would be suprised if we got any. If we do, they will almost definately be Isaac and/or Felix. And since Felix is an Isaac clone in the actual games, should they both make it, he's sure to be one. Great.

Ah yes, how about Zelda characters! You can never have too many of them! Ok, the most likely IMO are Vaati and Wolf Link/Midna. Some people say that Midna should be her own character, but... She and Wolf Link are a team in TP, therefore they should be a team in Brawl.

And finally, 3rd party characters. I really hate Nintendo for adding them, there are more than enough 1st/2nd parties. Many people are happy that they are adding Snake, but remember, he's reducing the already slim chance that a Golden Sun character could make it.
As far as other third party characters go, I'd say Sonic is the most likely. Some of you may not want him, but let's face it. He is by far the most popular 3rd party character, and having a Mario/Sonic fight would be... Nostalgic? Other likely candadites are people from big-hit games, like maybe Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia.

I honestly don't think that there will be more than three 3rd party characters, but I also didn't think there would be any in the first place.

[Aquamarine]

I mostly agree with you Sothe. I'm not a big Krystal fan, though I do think she would make an excelent Brawl fighter if she used her staff. Sakurai has asked people in Japan whether or not they want her playable and would they want her to have her staff from Adventures. So she seems pretty likely.
But Wolf is one of the characters I most want. Smash Bros needs more villains and Wolf is one of the best choices.

I think it unlikely GS characters are included, but I'm still holding my fingers crossed. C'mon Isaac...

As for new Zelda characters, I would LOVE to have Vaati playable, but there can be too many Zelda chars. I think 4 is ok(maybe 5), more than that would be too much.

And I also hate NInty for adding 3rd parties. It is a smart business move though. Sakurai said there will be 2 or 3 third party characters, but I think there will possibly be 4.

[Caael]

Sothe, on Nov 4 2006, 07:33 PM, said:

Other likely candadites are people from big-hit games, like maybe Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia.

GASP, New character ideas have popped up!

If they are going to have any ToS characters, they must must must have Kratos. But make him look more Anime, like in the cut scenes, the characters are slightly out of proportion in-game. Kratos, Mithos and Lloyd are good from ToS

[Sothe]

Woah, just got back from the Nintendo Nsider Forums, and apparently many people suspect brawl will have 40 characters. I don't think that Brawl will have very many more then Melee, especially if they don't all make it...

But if there is that many, I'm gonna be wanting more then 4 or 5 Zelda characters. ;)

Ok, may as well throw a few more ideas out there:

1.Tingle: Yes, the fairy wannabe from Legend of Zelda. Most people don't like him, but he actually has a huge fanbase in Japan (Big enough to merit him is own game). Meta-Knight, Wario, and Pit, all who have been confirmed for Brawl, had quite a few supporters, showing that Nintendo may be listening to the fans. If they made it by having lots of fans, Tingle may too.

2.Ridley: The biggest complaint I've heard against Ridley is that he is too big to be put in a SSB game. IMO that's a very lame reason, as I believe Bowser was scaled down some in Melee, so Ridley could be as well. We now have Zero-Suit Samus (Who fortunately does not appear to be a clone) but Metroid is one of Nintendo's biggest series (Mario, Legend of Zelda, and Pokemon have about 5 a piece) and most of the other Metroid characters would be too similar to Samus (i.e. Dark Samus, Sylux, etc.)

3.Meowth: Put simply, they are running out of Pikachu wannabes. Meowth has several moves he could use in Brawl, such as his signature Pay Day (Note that I am talking about Meowths in general, not the one on the Anime) excluding Mewtwo, all of the Pokemon in SSB have been in the cute category. Myself is hoping for Deoxys or Lucario, but Meowth wouldn't be horrible.

[Golden Legacy]

I'm somewhat dissapointed at the response this topic has received. We've finally received some new information on Brawl in the form of a trailer; more than we could have hoped for. And yet we still choose to talk about our own speculation and theories?


With that said, this is a trailer analysis taken from SmashBoards.

Quote

Notes done via HD GT version of the trailer (Notes on stages done after the initial notes).

General notes:

1. Air combat is MUCH better in Brawl. There is less recovery when landing, more seamless air to ground combos, and more air combos/juggling.

2. Sounds are much more heavy and painful.

3. Stages have multiple forms (night/day) and are much more detailed

4. Potential new ability: Crouchwalking

5. Potential new quickroll.

0:14 = Kirby’s up smash can KO easier

0:20-24 = Mario can combo easier in the air. Remember Sakurai saying that they were going to make air combat more viable and revamp character moves to reflect this? Looks like we’re seeing the tip of the iceberg with Mario’s down B.

0:29 = Pikachu crouchwalking? Could be a crouchwalk, or it could be a new animation for Pikachu's slow walk (Check out other instances of Pikachu walking)

0:33 = Check out the lack of recovery on Kirby’s forward A in the air now. More viable air combat?

0:35 = Pikachu crouchwalks to Kirby. Is this a crouchwalk, or could this be a new animation for Pikachu’s slow walk?

Wario’s part in general: As everyone has noticed, he has G&W-style frames. Strong indication we wont see G&W again.

0:58 = Metaknight’s extremely fast dodge of Kirby’s attack. There are three potential things this could be. a) Wavedash ;) Upgraded roll (but notice you don’t see a shield) c) A new type of quickroll

1:02 = Metaknight has a forward glide with his sword held in front of him. Most likely his up B.

1:13 = Pit also uses this new quickroll thing to avoid what seems to be Wario’s forward smash attack.

Pit’s part in general: Check out the air combos. Notice the better air combat?

1:16 = Zamus’ jump makes her seem a bit light on her feet.

1:22 = Zamus has Sheik-like attacks. Is Zamus a Sheik replacement?

1:24 = Low gravity. Is this the stage or Zamus’ jump/potential up B?

1:33 = Link’s bow seems much faster now.

1:33 = Obviously, Snake’s air axe-kick is a good combo starter (better air combat again)

1:36 = Snake can roll into a crouching position.

1:37 = Snake is moving in crouch position followed by Wario who seems to also be “crouchwalking.” But these characters are new, so these could potential be their abilities (depending on if Pikachu’s new animation is a crouchwalk or just a new slow walk).

1:41 = Bazooka to face FTW.

1:45 = Pikachu’s forward smash seems larger/longer.

1:45 = Pit is showing off his 3 (or more?) jumps.

1:46 = Link’s up B is less smooth, now it looks more like a tornado instead of a disc.

1:46 = Mario’s forward smash looks like a bomb exploding. Awesome.

1:52 = A glimpse at Metaknight’s down A in the air?

1:54 = New castle stage

1:54 = Wario’s dash attack

1:56 = What is Wario doing? Seems a bit long for a smash attack…

1:58 = New Kid Icarus stage with breakable floors seems to do a little damage when you break a floor with someone on it (Pikachu hitting Snake)

2:01 = Link’s sword is glowing! Does this mean he can charge moves now? Or does it have something to do with TP?

2:03 = Again with Pikachu’s new animation. Crouchwalk or new slow walk?

2:09 = Zamus’ dash attack

2:11 = Zamus can do some sort of fast fall thing. Her down B?

2:11 = Wario’s landing. Is he sliding? Is he just landing? Is he wavedashing?

2:11 = Metaknight’s dash attack

2:12 = Metaknight’s up smash or regular up A?

2:27-2:28 = A lot of debate over what happens here. Many people think Fox is using his shine, I honestly can’t tell what is happening, but if he truly is shining, then it means the shine isn’t a spike anymore.

2:29 = As far as I can tell, Fox is doing his forward smash or dash attack.

Fox in general: Seems to have his pistol out at all times. Less pistol lag now?



Stages (I’m only marking when a new stage is first seen, and when some quirk about a stage can be seen):

0:12 = Previously seen battlefield-like stage

0:16 = Same battlefield-like stage shown in night that was shown in day.

0:19 = Mario is running on a new Mario Kart stage

0:25 = Yoshi’s story like stage

0:28 = Mario Kart stage has F-Zero like cars

0:34 = First glimpse of the Kid Icarus breakable platform stage

0:37 = The previously seen castle stage (outside)

0:38 = Previously seen Metaknight stage

0:40 = First glimpse of the new Pokemon Stadium stage

1:09 = First glimpse of a different (?) castle stage from the inside

1:23 = Stage with Earth in the background. Is this the new fox stage from the end of the trailer, or is it Zamus’ stage?

1:27 = What looks to be an indoors Metal Gear stage

1:30 = Background of Snake looks to be an outdoors Metal Gear stage.

1:48 = Yoshi’s story stage is changing seasons

1:57 = Breakable platforms on the Kid Icarus stage

2:20 = Fox’s new stage

2:26 = This could be a new camera mode, or something done just for the trailer, or just a very annoying quirk of Fox’s new stage.

2:28-ish = My brother swears that he can hear a slightly female voice that is very soft chant "Starfox" once instead of the Melee Fox chant.

2:29 = Fox’s stage enters Earth’s orbit

EDIT: Also, follow this link. It's another good analysis. Be sure to scroll down after the first post to see further analysis of the stages (you can't miss the posts, they have many screenshots).

[Sothe]

'Ight, if characters aren't good enough for you I'll post this instead.

In his stills, Link is depicted to be right-handed, probably because the new Link is based off of TP Link, and despite what they say, Nintendo considers the Wii version to be the main, or if I may go as far as to real TP. However, in the actual Gameplay footage, he is still left-handed. It is possible that they intend to change this, or that they based his character off of the Melee Link and didn't want to have to rebuild him.

[Toasty]

Well that's interesting info. Does anyone think wavedashing will be possible in SSBB?

[Aquamarine]

GL, you say you're dissapointed that we're talking only about characters and not the new gameplay from the trailer, but I don't see you saying anything more. Yeah, you posted the trailer analysis, but you didn't comment on it or on any new stuff from the trailer. Never mind, it's not a big deal, I'll try and start up a conversation about the new things added.

First off: new arenas. I absolutely love the idea of a Mario Kart arena, but as I already said, I don't like that they just took the mute City idea from Melee. Everyone seems to like the Yoshi's Island arena, but it doesn't look very special to me. The Ancient Greece arena looks superb though, the background is great and collapsable platforms is an awesome idea.

Do you think only Pits arena will have destructible parts? I hope not, but I don't think I would want every arena to have it.

There seems to be a new type of dodging: crouching. Not a lot is known about this, but we've seen Pikachu, Wario and, of course, Snake using it. Any thoughts?

I love the new aerial combat, even though I thought they would do even more with it. Never mind, it's all good.

[Golden Legacy]

Aquamarine, on Nov 5 2006, 09:55 AM, said:

GL, you say you're dissapointed that we're talking only about characters and not the new gameplay from the trailer, but I don't see you saying anything more. Yeah, you posted the trailer analysis, but you didn't comment on it or on any new stuff from the trailer. Never mind, it's not a big deal, I'll try and start up a conversation about the new things added.

What would you have me do, cut in on all your hypothetical talk, start analyzing the trailer randomly, and expect you guys to follow suit?


It's worth mentioning that the stages seem to have a lot more variety than before. You mentioned the crumbling platforms in one of Pit's stages; the Yoshi Island stage seems to go through different seasons as well, and there is even a day/night system in the new stage that looks like Battlefield from Melee.

Did anyone else think that Zero Suit Samus' melee moves are similar to Sheik's? And also, what's up with Wario moving like Mr. Game and Watch?

[FlamingDuck]

Honestly, I wouldn't really care if Mr. Game and Watch got kicked off...He was more of a nuisance than useful. Also, Zero Suit Samus seems a little...unnecessary. instead of taking up a character slot, couldn't they just have her transform, like Zelda/Sheik?

And as for 3rd party people, I don't really care, but I think it adds a ton more variety than just having 4+ people from the same series.

[TheEnglishman]

FlamingDuck, on Nov 5 2006, 04:45 PM, said:

Honestly, I wouldn't really care if Mr. Game and Watch got kicked off...He was more of a nuisance than useful. Also, Zero Suit Samus seems a little...unnecessary. instead of taking up a character slot, couldn't they just have her transform, like Zelda/Sheik?

That's what I thought. Surely the two of them being on the same field would be impossible?

[I'm Always BROKE]

Nawh it isn't impossible. But Wario is likely a Mr.Game & Watch replacement. GAW has had his 15 minutes of fame. Same perhaps does to Zamus and Sheik. Face it, SSBM had only Zelda character from OoT. Brawl represents Twilight Princess with Zelda characters. If Sheik isn't in TP, there would easly be no Sheik to be represent.

Also Sheik was very broken in Melee, sure Marth and Fox, Falco and Peach where so to. But if Sheik would get even the slightliest nerfing, she'd be completly useless. Her 2 main things are the Chainthrowing and her Fair. If they both got nerfed, Sheik would be much like Young Link. A fast character with good combo's and projectiles but no finishing moves. Sheik fans would be outraged. It would be much better if they took some of Sheik's style to another character, in this case Zamus. And because Zamus and Sheik aren't related, and because of the few things we already saw we know Zamus won't be a clone of Sheik.

Also please note: Zamus isn't a pure character addition, as said on the official SSBB site. Samus would "transform" into Zamus on "cetrain circumstances". And those circumstances are still unkown.

As for 3rd party charactes, Sakurai the head director of Brawl said that they would add 1 or perhaps 2 other 3rd party characters. And that's not even sure either. However, Sonic seems very likely.

I love the crawling! It's cool how they added crawling just because of Snake. And I loved the scene where Pikachu crawled over the Mario Kart race track!

Fox looks very good I think. In Melee he looked far too old, and it didn't quite suited his personality. This design looks alot like the one from StarFox Command, which is after two medicore GameCube titles easly the best recent StarFox game. It's also cool that they made Fox hold his gun primarly, it's more true to the series.

And it's now 99.99% guranteed that Dr.Mario will be removed. Mario's new Forward Ariel Attack (sort for Fair) is the same as Doc's in Melee. Dr.Mario was a populair character in Melee because of his pills, this Forward Smash and Fair. All of those moves wheren't Mario's speciallity, that's why the character Mario was never used in Melee. Now that the doctor's favorite ariel move is Mario's, I dare say that Dr.Mario will indeed be removed from the roster.

What's troubeling me is that Snake looks alot like C.Falcon. He's way slower yeah, but his moves resamble C.Falcon alot. Also the Mario Kart stage is based on Mute City, which was one of C.Falcon's stages in Melee. I don't say Snake would be a clone of C.Falcon, but they could do the same with Zamus and Sheik, which isn't even confirmed yet...

[Sothe]

Hm, what about new items? Surely they will have some of those. Here's a few I came up with:

Ocarina of Time: (Song of Time) When used, the Ocarina rewinds the match to a point up to a minute ago. This means if you were KO'd, you would get your life back. In timed matches, however, it does not affect the actual clock.
And the Ocarina pulls back ALL characters, not just the user (They just get to decide how far back the battle is rewound)

Ocarina of Time: (Inverted Song of Time) Yes, I actually made two versions of the Ocarina. It would have one or the other, not both, were it actually in the game. Anyway, the Inverted Song does just what it does in Majora'd Mask, it slows down everything except for the user (The clock also remains uneffected) this wears off after a few seconds, like most items do. And it slows down the entire level, not just other players.

Bottled Bee: (From Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past) When used, the bees swarm one random player, causing them a considerable amount of damage, as well as constant flinching. They can, however, rebound and attack the user, so beware.

Vulnerary: (Fire Emblem Series) A healing item that restores 10% damage. It can be used three times; however, if the user is hit they drop the vulnerary and another player can pick it up. Restores up to 30% damage.

Tanooki Suit (Er, did I spell that right? Super Mario Bros 3) As well as clothing the user in a rather humorous rancoon-styled outfit, the Tanooki Suit provides each character with three additional jumps. It also allows characters to turn themselves to stone for several seconds (Essentially the same as Kirby's B-Down) Heh, imagine Ganondorf wearing one of these.

Landmaster Tank (Star Fox series) Character jumps in and steers around. While in your landmaster tank, your character cannot take damage. Any characters you run over will take damage and be knocked away. By pressing A, the user can fire the Landmaster's cannon. Just like it can in the games, the cannon can be charged by holding A. If you press the jump button while in the Landmaster Tank, the hover boosters are activated, allowing you to cross small vertical games. However, the Landmaster is rather slow, and it cannot activate it's hover ability in midair (Meaning if you get knocked off the side somehow, you're toast) After the Landmaster takes a certain amount of damage, it is destroyed. This has an explosion equal to that of a Bom-omb, so best stay clear.

Swellow: (Comes out of Pokeball) Uses Fly. Upon being released from it's pokeball, Swellow flies to the top of the screen. The next time the character is knocked off the stage, either sideways or downward, Swellow swoops down and pulls the character back above the stage. Note that this will not happen if the character is KO'd at the top of the screen. (Intermediate)

Ditto: (Comes out of Pokeball) Uses transform. Turns in to one of the user's enemies and fights alongside them until it recieves a set amount of damage (Between 25% and 40%) or is KO'd. (Rare)

Tyranitar: (Comes out of Pokeball) Uses Thrash. Attacks in the same fashion as Marill, only a much bigger and more powerful Pokemon. (Rare)

Rayquaza: (Comes out of Pokeball) Uses Outrage, an attack that causes heavy damage to all players, including the user and his/her teammates. (Very Rare)

[Toasty]

Well as for the last one, I don't think the user should ever take damage from it's own poke'ball. It's always been that way anyway. I like all of them except for #1, 4, 5, and 6.

As for Sheik, she's not as bad as people put her out to be. My friends older brother used her his first time he had played the game, and knocked me around really good. Back then I was really good.

And I think Samus will become Zamus when she uses the "super smash" item. She'll probably use here super beam thingy, and it'll blow all her armor off.

[Caael]

The only ones I thought weren't very good were the landmaster Tank and the Ocarina's. They seem a bit crap. C'mon, invicibility is enough, and being able to use uber attacks with the tank is too far. And I think that the Ocarina is a bad idea, it would dis-orientate all the players. I think using it to go slo-mo is a better idea.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Mr.T, on Nov 6 2006, 12:29 PM, said:

Well as for the last one, I don't think the user should ever take damage from it's own poke'ball. It's always been that way anyway. I like all of them except for #1, 4, 5, and 6.

As for Sheik, she's not as bad as people put her out to be. My friends older brother used her his first time he had played the game, and knocked me around really good. Back then I was really good.

And I think Samus will become Zamus when she uses the "super smash" item. She'll probably use here super beam thingy, and it'll blow all her armor off.

This I find incredibly funny! Sheik is the 3rd best character of the game, and was defending the title "Best Character of the Game" for over 1 year and a half. Sheik is pure broken! If it wasn't for Fox's shine, Sheik would be the domminant character. Also, she's very easy to use. In newbie fights, she and Roy are favorites.

[Aquamarine]

Toasty: What do you mean "As for Sheik, she's not as bad as people put her out to be."!? Sheik is considered one of the three most powerful fighters, alongside Marth and Fox. Though I don't really agree with the tier listing and I also don't think anyone should pay any attention to it...

I noticed all those simmilarities between various old and new characters too. I'm glad Dr. Mario will(probably) be thrown out, since he is really not needed. I've also always said Sheik should be dumped and her moves given to other fighters, but I'll be very dissapointed if Captain Falcon is missing. If they don't add him then that means there won't be any F-Zero characters, since he is the main one. Also, he's been there since the first game, has a very original moveset and is just an excelent fighter. If they throw him out that means they'll be forgetting about some Ninetndo franchises but adding 3rd party characters. That is totally wrong, and it'll anger me a lot. Though, of course, there is nothing I can do about it... ;)

Mr. Game & Watch shouldn't be thrown out. He is hugely important to Nintendos history and is very... different compared to the other fighters. Wario moves like him now because he's supposed to be the comical relief of the game I guess. That sort of reminds me of Luigi from Melee. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Before I saw the E3 trailer I expected he would be all tough, dangerous looking and aggresive, so I don't really like how he is portrayed in Brawl.

[Sothe]

Game and Watch is an important character, but his appearance in Melee was more of a Cameo than anything else. Ever heard the expression "A joke is never as funny the second time you hear it?" G/W isn't a joke, but he has had his glory in SSBM and it just wouldn't be the same in SSBB. The fact that some people believe Wario is derived from him isn't helping his chances.

Shiek, however, I don't think should be removed. Link may have been revamped with TP graphics, but he is not neccesarely derived directly from him. I believe he used his Boomerang in the original trailer, it didn't spawn tornadoes, did it? Even if Zelda is also updated, they may not remove Shiek. While competitive players consider it suicide to change during matches (Which it is) the Zelda/Shiek combo is what makes them such a great character in casual play, especially Melee battles.

Other characters who may be removed:
Doc. Mario -This has been everything but confirmed. Not much else to say, I just don't see how he could be altered any. He's Mario with pills and different clothes, what more can they do with him?

Roy -IMO if he makes it, he will be replaced with Eliwood, as Eliwood was in the first American Fire Emblem. I'd say other FE characters are more likely then both of them, though.

Young Link -Replaced with Windwaker Link? I don't see that happening, YL has plenty of his OoT items as well as his MM items. He could easily be given a new B moveset, and his swordplay could be varied some. He may be removed, but Windwaker or Majora's Mask, a Young Link could still work.

Pichu -Will also most likely be removed, though like Young Link, there are plenty of other moves he could use. After the Anime was launched, Pikachu's movelist exploded, he's got all sorts of tricks now. Would it really be that hard to pick four different ones then Pikachu's? We may see a new "cute" Pokemon, but even though Pichu could be fixed I doubt he will return.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Sothe, on Nov 7 2006, 02:18 AM, said:

Game and Watch is an important character, but his appearance in Melee was more of a Cameo than anything else. Ever heard the expression "A joke is never as funny the second time you hear it?" G/W isn't a joke, but he has had his glory in SSBM and it just wouldn't be the same in SSBB. The fact that some people believe Wario is derived from him isn't helping his chances.

Shiek, however, I don't think should be removed. Link may have been revamped with TP graphics, but he is not neccesarely derived directly from him. I believe he used his Boomerang in the original trailer, it didn't spawn tornadoes, did it? Even if Zelda is also updated, they may not remove Shiek. While competitive players consider it suicide to change during matches (Which it is) the Zelda/Shiek combo is what makes them such a great character in casual play, especially Melee battles.

Other characters who may be removed:
Doc. Mario -This has been everything but confirmed. Not much else to say, I just don't see how he could be altered any. He's Mario with pills and different clothes, what more can they do with him?

Roy -IMO if he makes it, he will be replaced with Eliwood, as Eliwood was in the first American Fire Emblem. I'd say other FE characters are more likely then both of them, though.

Young Link -Replaced with Windwaker Link? I don't see that happening, YL has plenty of his OoT items as well as his MM items. He could easily be given a new B moveset, and his swordplay could be varied some. He may be removed, but Windwaker or Majora's Mask, a Young Link could still work.

Pichu -Will also most likely be removed, though like Young Link, there are plenty of other moves he could use. After the Anime was launched, Pikachu's movelist exploded, he's got all sorts of tricks now. Would it really be that hard to pick four different ones then Pikachu's? We may see a new "cute" Pokemon, but even though Pichu could be fixed I doubt he will return.

If Sheik will appear in Brawl really all depends on Twilight Princess. I'll not go further into that.

As for Roy. If he where to be replaced (which I honestly think to) I think it will not be by Eliwood.
Mainly because Eliwood and Roy look alot like each other, which is obvious because Roy is Eliwood's son.
It would just be confusing. Many people would think the character still is Roy, but with another weapon and name. Also, Eliwood is the least populair FE7 Lord. I think Hector would be better suited for that. He'd be far more unique atleast, because Hector carries a huge Axe. Also, he's the second most populair and storywise important of all Fire Emblem characters from Elibe (FE6 and FE7).

But most likely, Roy'll be replaced by Ike. Because Ike is very high in Sakurai's list of characters (just as high as the likes of Diddy Kong and Ridley), and he's the main character of the most recent Fire Emblem game. Perhaps Ike makes a comeback in Godness of Dawn to. Which would be exelent advertising, like Roy was an advertisement for Fire Emblem 6. Also Sothe, is pretty likely. Since he's gonna be the new Lord, and he was in PoR. I would honestly LOVE to see Ephraim instead, because he's the first Lord who's main weapon is the Lance. But I don't see that happening, mainly because the game had less depth than the other two international FE games.

I pretty much agree with your other points. ;) *thumbs up*

[Golden Legacy]

^ I agree that both Sothe and Ike are highly likely to reappear; I believe that, "officially", Ike will replace Marth, and Sothe will replace Roy, as both of them could be used as advertisements for the next game.

By the way, good analysis, DiddyKong. You too Sothe, nicely done. ;)


For the record, also, it's worth mentioning tha the way Wario moves in the new Brawl trailer is very similar to Game and Watch.

[Sothe]

@Diddy Kong
That is more or less why I said if Roy makes it. They would be the same character essentially; just as you said (Eliwood probably wouldn't speak in Japanese, though). Any other FE Lord would probably have different moves and style.

And yes, Ike is the most likely FE Lord. There were quite a few people who's first Fire Emblem was Path of Radiance; and I do not know any FE7/FE8 fans who didn't get PoR (Except those who don't have a Gamecube). His Ragnell weapon could supply different B moves then Marth's Falchion, perhaps one of his B moves could be the wave of energy he sends out when he attacks from two spaces. He's also already got a Brawl move -Aether.

It's also possible that Sothe or Mikaya will be playable to premote FE10, just as Roy was for FE6.



@Golden Legacy
Uh-oh, a post was made before mine! ;)
Personally, I do not believe Marth will be taken out. He is the Lord of the very first FE game, so he sort of symbolizes the FE games in general. Also, many people think of Marth as the "real" (if I may use that word) FE character, and Roy as the clone, as Marth is required to unlock Roy. He might not make it, but I'd at least give him better odds then Roy.

[Golden Legacy]

I'll argue that Ike symbolizes the "new" era of Fire Emblem games, what with Path of Radiance and Goddess of Dawn coming out. Furthermore, Ike and Marth are similar in appearance (blue hair, sword), that exchanging the two won't really matter much.

Roy was used to advertise for FE6; the same can be done with Sothe for GoD. Also, this means that the two FE Lords won't be clones, as Sothe would presumably have a more unique fencing style, since he has two knives/blades.

[My Best Wishes]

Too much FE talk! Some people only have the game with Lyn!

FE related. How is Roy Eliwood's son? And whoever said Hector should be put in, yea him or Lyn, they are both good but Hector is better IMO, well in my game anyway.

Can someone get me these tier rankins, I mean I agree Marth is very good, but Fox? Falco is so much better, he's faster, much better jump. Only disavantage is his crap pistol. And Shiek? Shiek sucks!!!!

[Sothe]

Technically, this topic is about Brawl, not Melee. (Unless you want the Brawl Tier List, which currently does not exist) However, since I am awesome, I will post the (melee) tier listing.

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Mid Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

[My Best Wishes]

Thanks.

Top Tier:
Fox - Good but not the best
Falco - One of the best

High Tier:
Sheik - crap
Marth - great
Peach - does not deserve this

Mid Tier:
Captain Falcon - good
Ice Climbers - no chance
Samus - great
Doctor Mario - crap
Jigglypuff - LOL
Mario - alright
Ganondorf - to slow for me, plus a clone

Low Tier:
Link - deserves better
Luigi- eh
Donkey Kong - eh
Roy - deserves much better
Young Link - deserves better
Pikachu - eh

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi - eh
Zelda - crap
Mr. Game and Watch - very strong but eh
Ness - oh come on Ness is the best!
Bowser - eh
Kirby - deserves better
Pichu - eh
Mewtwo - eh

Well that was off topic but thats what I think.

[Toasty]

DiddyKong, on Nov 6 2006, 11:13 AM, said:

This I find incredibly funny! Sheik is the 3rd best character of the game, and was defending the title "Best Character of the Game" for over 1 year and a half. Sheik is pure broken! If it wasn't for Fox's shine, Sheik would be the domminant character. Also, she's very easy to use. In newbie fights, she and Roy are favorites.

Aquamarine, on Nov 6 2006, 11:47 AM, said:

Toasty: What do you mean "As for Sheik, she's not as bad as people put her out to be."!? Sheik is considered one of the three most powerful fighters, alongside Marth and Fox. Though I don't really agree with the tier listing and I also don't think anyone should pay any attention to it...

Sorry, geez. I just misinterpreted what Diddy said. To me, it sounded like he was calling her weak. ;)

Oh, and personally, I wouldn't really put kirby on the bottom tier. At least the middle. I know that it's based off of how much they have to offer, and not how well somebody can play them, but kirby has a lot of useful moves, and makes up for his light weight by being able to jump 5 times. Besides, in his rock mode, though he can't move, he's invincible. His final cutter is really useful in recovery too, and when you flie off the top of the screen, his down B helps him fall down before he goes too far off screen.

[Aquamarine]

Sorry Toasty, I didn't mean to sound aggresive. And "broken" means too good compared to others, doesn't it Diddy? Just to clarify that.

Out of FE chararcters I would like to have Ike, Sothe and the new woman mage from Godess of Dawn playable. We all know Smash Bros. needs both more women AND magic users. Three chararcters from FE isn't a lot considering it is one of Nintendos most popular franchises now.

That is the newest tier listing, right? It was different the last time I checked, but then again, I haven't checked it in a very long time.

Does anyone have a link to the new version of the Brawl theme from the new trailer? Does anybody know where I can download it, possibly in MP3 format?

[I'm Always BROKE]

watch, on Nov 7 2006, 05:30 AM, said:

Too much FE talk! Some people only have the game with Lyn!

FE related. How is Roy Eliwood's son? And whoever said Hector should be put in, yea him or Lyn, they are both good but Hector is better IMO, well in my game anyway.

Can someone get me these tier rankins, I mean I agree Marth is very good, but Fox? Falco is so much better, he's faster, much better jump. Only disavantage is his crap pistol. And Shiek? Shiek sucks!!!!

Roy IS Eliwood's son. However, since your from Australia you have the PAL version. There the last scene where Eliwood introduces Roy to Hector is cutted for some reason. However, if you played FE6, you KNOW that Roy is Eliwood's son.

Fox is faster than Falco for the record. Yeah he does jump lower, but his recovery is waaaay better than Falco's, who probarly has the worst recovery after Dr.Mario. And Falco's pistol isn't crap, heck it's even an advantage over Fox's blaster.

Why Fox is considered the best character mostly is because of his down B move, the game call it the Reflector. But the more experienced players call it the Shine. If Fox hits you with it when your trying to return back to the stage, you'll get sended downwards at great speed and you loose all your 3 jumps. This is called a spike. The whole term is called Shine Spike. If you wanna check the effectivity, this is a good Fox combo video: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_xtwFsO4H1k.

Sheik has the best combo's and best edgeguarding in the game. There is no wat you'll return back to the stage if you fight an experienced Sheik player. Also her needles go through nearly EVERYTHING! It can even stop a full charged Shadow Ball or Charge Shot. Also she is very quick, has chain throws on nearly every character and her tilts are just awesome.

watch, on Nov 7 2006, 07:11 AM, said:

Thanks.

Top Tier:
Fox - Good but not the best Yes he is... I explained that above.
Falco - One of the best Yeah.

High Tier:
Sheik - crap Err no!? Already explained that to you.
Marth - great No, broken.
Peach - does not deserve this Her Down Smash disagrees with you.

Mid Tier:
Captain Falcon - good Yeah.
Ice Climbers - no chance Very strong Smashes, awesome projectile, wavedash and infinitate Grab Combo's? More chance than you think.
Samus - great Yes.
Doctor Mario - crap Except you can't get past his Bair's and Pills. Better than Mario.
Jigglypuff - LOL LOL right back. Best Ariel moves in the game and awesome recovery and mobility. Ever got Rested btw?
Mario - alright Meh...
Ganondorf - to slow for me, plus a clone The fact that he's a clone doesn't mean ****. He's slow yeah, but so is Peach. His killing moves and combo's make up for it.

Low Tier:
Link - deserves better Err no?
Luigi- eh Same.
Donkey Kong - eh Good placement, has awesome juggles.
Roy - deserves much better That's what I would except from a "less experienced player". Seriously Roy sucks. I think he's even too high! Too low range, much lag on his moves and very few kill moves. Also, he has very bad matchups, his best being 50/50.
Young Link - deserves better Because of he all depens on Bombs to combo? And the fact he really has NO killing move? No way!
Pikachu - eh Meh...

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi - eh [/b]Poor Yoshi... If it wheren't for his shield and grabs...
Zelda - crap Yeah.
Mr. Game and Watch - very strong but eh Very strong? O_O; Err no? He's all mindgames, and has way too much lag.
Ness - oh come on Ness is the best! Here I agree, however, I would place him just one place higher than Pikachu.
Bowser - eh Same.
Kirby - deserves better Hell no... ;>_>
Pichu - eh Deserves better. I would give him Ness' curent place.
Mewtwo - eh Poor Mewtwo.[b]

Well that was off topic but thats what I think.

I fixed that a litte. ;)

[Sothe]

I'm not going to go into details on the individual characters like Diddy did, but here's a few things about the tiers:

-They don't apply unless you are playing on a COMPETITIVE level, which judging by your comments, you don't.

-Tiers don't apply to computers. Their AI is less then intellegent, they fight with no strategy whatsoever. A CPU vs. CPU match's winner is based on pure chance.

-Skill is more important then tiers. A skilled Kirby player could beat a lower-ranked Fox player, despite what the tier says.

-Counters. The higher listed characters have less weaknesses then the lower ranked characters, and there are less characters who have predicted wins against them. However, a higher tier character will not always beat a lower tier character, even if the players are of the same skill.

-All characters are NOT created equal. Take Bowser, for example. The developers had decided that, because of his high weight, Bowser would be very slow. However, he would also have very powerful attacks. Balances out, right? Wrong. Strength =/= Speed. A character as slow as Bowser will almost always lose to a quick character like Marth or Shiek, simply because he can't get any attacks in.

-And, contrary to what many of the casual gamers think, how much you like a character does not determine how good they are. It sucks to see your favorite characters considered weak; but there is nothing that can be done. It doesn't apply to you anyway, so I wouldn't think anything of it.

And remember, the Tier lists change per game. IIRC, Kirby and Ness were considered the best of the best in the original game (along with Fox) yet now we find them at the bottom of the tiers. It is possible that Fox and Falco will be downgraded come Brawl, and some of the lower ranking characters will find their places at the top of the list.

[Toasty]

Now let's not start a flame fight......

But though I like Roy, I would only place him above Gannondorf. They are fairly equal IMO, but Roy is faster. If there's one thing I've learned, is that the faster you are, the better. And though Kirby may be weak, and lacks a killing move, he could easily copy one. An example (though not very good) would be to copy Roy's B move. It's almost garunteed a OHKO when fully charged. And he also has great recovery, and great ariels as well. I would place him around Jigglypuff.

[Sothe]

Roy is not as good as you think. He actually does less damage then Marth; at least in general. The reason he appears stronger is because he has an easier time sweetspotting (Hitting with the "sweet" part of the sword. You know how Marth's trophy says he does more damage when he hits toward the tip of the blade, whereas Roy does more with the center of his sword?) Roy has a much larger sweetspot then Marth. Mastering Marth's is hard, but it is more powerful in general then Roy's.

Flare Blade is overrated. No smart foe is going to stand next to you for five full seconds while you charge it. The only time it could actually 1HKO is in a three or four player match, if one of the other players happens to hit a foe next to you right as Roy's blade explodes (which is pretty unlikely, unless they are your teammate) Believe it or not, Marth's Shield Breaker is actually more powerful then Roy's Flare Blade when they aren't charged.

Kirby, quite simply, got downgraded in Melee. All of his good moves were weakened, or even replaced. Nowdays he is best played as a Kirbikaze, which is a very risky style of play to say the least.

[My Best Wishes]

If this comes out aggressive it not implied.

Those Tiers are not accurate. If someone were to go Jigglypuff, Shiek or Dr Mario I would crap all over them. Even with Jiggly's sleep and down B, Shiek's stars and chain and Dr Mario's pill's and cloak.

The tiers may be right in their overall stats but two people playing each other? Man stuff happens, I got beaten when I was two lives up to one life heavy damage, freakn Pokemon.

BTW- That Fox shine is sweet as.

Off topic again- My fav characters (in order)

Ness
Samus
Falco/Fox
Link/Young
Marth/Roy

[I'm Always BROKE]

Sothe, on Nov 8 2006, 04:05 AM, said:

Roy is not as good as you think. He actually does less damage then Marth; at least in general. The reason he appears stronger is because he has an easier time sweetspotting (Hitting with the "sweet" part of the sword. You know how Marth's trophy says he does more damage when he hits toward the tip of the blade, whereas Roy does more with the center of his sword?) Roy has a much larger sweetspot then Marth. Mastering Marth's is hard, but it is more powerful in general then Roy's.

Flare Blade is overrated. No smart foe is going to stand next to you for five full seconds while you charge it. The only time it could actually 1HKO is in a three or four player match, if one of the other players happens to hit a foe next to you right as Roy's blade explodes (which is pretty unlikely, unless they are your teammate) Believe it or not, Marth's Shield Breaker is actually more powerful then Roy's Flare Blade when they aren't charged.

Kirby, quite simply, got downgraded in Melee. All of his good moves were weakened, or even replaced. Nowdays he is best played as a Kirbikaze, which is a very risky style of play to say the least.

Awesome analysis! Your now officially my favorite new member in here! :)
I agree with all of your stuff, and you've explained it very good. I think you made Toasty and watch understand now.

And Toasty, putting Roy all above Ganondorf is a big step! His current placement right under DK is good, if not a little too high. I would personally put him below Pikachu, but still in the Low Tier section. Actually the only serious players who play Roy are Low Tier Players. And that's only because Roy's moves are similair to Marth's. The only person I know of who actually mains Roy is Lord Knight, who's ironically also a member of this forum under the name "Blade Lord Lyn", and he even complains how bad Roy sucks. Also, it might seem that Roy's sword is very long... However since the sweetspot in the hold of the sword, your forced to not use the full range of the blade. And because of that, Roy's range is really low.

Kirby's Copy is actually pretty useles if your searching for a killer move. The only one suitable for that is DK's Gaint Punch, but Kirby's version of the move got WAY lower range than DK's... And the range of the move is it's second best thing, after ofcoarse the enormous strenght of the punch. So really, Copy is just crap. His recovery, speed and rather high lag after crappy ariel moves doesn't help that much either. However I do like Kirb's Bair and Uair. ^^

So I think the Tier List is very accurate. And it just IS. You can disagree with Jigglypuff's placement, but she is just a killing machine. For a good example, here's a video: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=SxxR1cax16U around 0.19 Jiggly does a combo we call the Wall Of Pain, or in short... WOP.

[Sothe]

Yes, not only is Kirby's B move slow, there are many individual moves he has problems with. Some people say Kirby should try to absorb moves like Link's Arrows, to help him Arena Control to set up Kirbicides. The thing is, Link also has his Arrows, as well as his Bombs and Boomerang. In short, anything Kirby can do the original character can usually do better (And certainly no worse)

Ah, the classic Wall of Pain. I'm not too familar with Jiggilypuff, but I can say that's a pretty good video. And I'm not sure about Watch, but I for one have been rested. On a competitive level, you get hit by rest and you've lost the match. One of the most annoying things in SSB, though it can be quite fun when you are the one controlling it.:)

[Blue]

Yeah, I have to say Yoshi has his fair share of weak points. Thats why its funny when I kick ass with him. XD

[Golden Legacy]

Guys, as much as I hate cutting in, please leave this topic for information on Brawl only. I will revive the Melee topic for you guys to post in.

[Sothe]

Sothe, on Nov 6 2006, 10:34 PM, said:

Technically, this topic is about Brawl, not Melee.

Hmph, I tried to stop them, but.... :P (j/k, I'm guilty too)

What to discuss... Er, how about... uh... Brawl moves? :) Uh, well, we know Mario shoots a very large fireball type thing, Link uses the Triforce, and Kirby cooks people.

I think that the, er, fart Wario displayed in the first trailer is his Brawl move, but I'm not sure. (It didn't look as much like actual gameplay as the others did)

Samus' could be the huge beam she blasts Pit and MetaKnight with when she is first introduced (Some people believe this is how the Power Suit/Zero Suit change works)

What could the other character's be?

Pikachu's will most likely be Thunder or Volt Tackle.... Fox's could be an Arwing raid or a few blasts from the Great Fox... Never played Metal Gear Solid so I don't know much about Snake.

Samus' could also be using her ship, as she is supposed to be able to do in Metroid Prime 3.

[Toasty]

I hope Kirby is powered up more in Brawl. I was REALLY good with him even when I could only play it on my neighbors GC because I didn't have one yet. Then I used Roy and blah blah blah blah.........

But I also hope they keep Roy and cut his lag. It's even hard to keep up with L-canceling to cut lag. SHFFLing is one thing I never got down well.

Back on topic, I think Fox's will be more like he catches on fire and his speed is greatly increased, and probably his blaster will have more power. Pikachu's would likely be a giant thunder attack that covers a wide area, and lasts a little while. Kind of like Zapdos in SSBM.

[I'm Always BROKE]

As for Super Moves, I say Pikachu's should be the Volt Tackle. It's a unique move the Chu family only has acess to. However, I'm not sure how the attack would work.

And I dunno if the Wario Waft (the fart) will be Wario's Super Move. I think it's actually either his B or down B move, as you see Wario charging it up in the new trailer.

And I don't think that you can use Super Moves without the Smash Emblem item. That's why I would HATE that Samus will turn into Zamus through the Super Move. I say they should let Samus "transform" into Zamus if the player presses Z before the match, much like Zelda and Sheik except you can't change back.

Also Toasty, Roy's ariel moves aren't his best point. You'd do better not SHFFL at all when you use Roy.

[Toasty]

Well I was talking about it in general, but yeah.

While we're on the subject, does anyone think the physics proscessor will allow you to SHFFL, Wavedash, or L-cancel?

[I'm Always BROKE]

Short Hopping atleast, since that's been shown us in the trailer. L-Canceling was in SSB64 to, there's a big change it will return to. However Wavedashing... I'm not sure of. The programmers of Melee knew of it, and they'd let it stay because they thought it would add more depht in the game. And they where right. :)

[Caael]

What exactly are SHFFL and Wavedashing? Everybody just lost me there.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Okay lemme explain.

SHFFL

SHHFL stands for Short Hop Fast Fall L-Cancel. First I'll explain the Short Hopping... Short Hopping is basically doing an ariel move on the ground. You preform this by softly pressing X or Y. I prefer X myself, but Y works to. It might feel akward at firstm but you'll get used to it. You can pratice it the best with Falco, since his Short Hop is easy to preform. However, it's more challenging with slow falling characters, as Samus, Kirby and Mewtwo.

Now comes the FFL-ing part. After you preformed your ariel move, you should press down on the controll stick right after it. You'll fall faster thanks to that. Now quickly right when you hit the ground, press L. This will cut any afterward lag from the ariel move. You can practice it the best with Link's Down Ariel Move.

Okay so that was SHFFLing. :P Now up to Wavedashing!

Wavedashing.

Wavedashing might put many question marks in your head when you first hear from it. Basically, this is easier to preform than SHFFLing with cetrain characters. A wavedash is mostly used to gain a sudden boost of speed. Some characters move faster while wavedashing than by running.

A Wavedash is preformed by jumping and air dodging. First, you'll have to Jump, but before your character gets to his/her jump animation you quickly have to air dogde and push your controll stick to either left or right (whever you wanna wavedash to). If you preform this right, your character will slide on the ground with some dusty effects. Luigi has probarly the most noticable wavedash, so I say you could best practise Wavedashing with him. Please note that some character's Wavedash aren't as good... Examples are DK, Link and Pikachu.

I hope this makes some things clear for you. :)

[Caael]

Ah, thanks Diddy. Makes sense now.

[Toasty]

I myself only know what they are. I've wavedashed before, but I'm hardly good at it at all so using it in a fight would be pointless. SHFFLing I've also tried. I almost have all of it down except for the L-cancleing. It's just to hard to hit it at the right time.

Back on topic, how big do you think adventure mod will be? What's-his-face said that they were putting much more effort into it this time around, and that they expected it to be much longer.

[Blue]

Much longer? Brilliant!
I wonder if they'll try to put a story behind each persons Adventure mode. It would be very odd.

[Aquamarine]

Nah, I wouldn't want Smash Bros. to have any kind of story. I think it would take away from the overall feel of the game. Anyway, it does sort of have a story. These characters that are fighting aren't actually really them, but toys(trophies). Master Hand is the child playing with the toys. So yeah...

[Mars Djinni]

(I'd be thinking that the master hand and crazy hand belong to the real Mario.)

Well, if Adventure mode is extended, then we can hope for just as much more exciting versions of the other Single Player modes.

[Aquamarine]

Imagine a Co-Op multiplayer Adventure Mode. That would rock! Up to 4 people at once going through the Muchroom Kingdom and other such areas.
Also, a different Adventure for every character would be cool, but that's probably asking for too much.

[Mars Djinni]

The first one's a good idea. It keeps the spirit of Super Smash Bros if Adventure becomes the strong point of Brawl (Which I hope it doesn't)

[Sea of Time]

Yes, co-op is probably the next path for SSB to take. What would be even better would be co-op online, like Gears of War.

[Aquamarine]

I know I have asked this already, but I'll ask again since nobody answered: Does anyone know where I can download the new version of the Smash Bros. Brawl main theme? The one from the new trailer.

[Mars Djinni]

Ah, that new one. I'm not sure if it's available yet, but I'll go looking around. It's probably gonna be battle music for a certain stage, just as the remixed theme of Melee appeared in Final Destination.

[Caael]

Meh, I'll limewire it. If you have MSN, PM me with your address and i'll send it to you.

Edit: Found the theme, I dont know if it's the full version, but it's downloading.

[Sea of Time]

I haven't particularly liked any of the themes yet. It's not anything to send chills, like some music in FE9.

[Aquamarine]

I like the two Brawl themes very much, even though I think that kind of music might not fit in all too well with the game. Nevertheless, I have a feeling this game will have some of the best video game music ever, right alongside F-Zero GX...
I've looked all over for the new music, but I can't find it anywhere. And Caeel, I er... don't have MSN. Yeah, I know it's strange. Can you maybe provide us with the link please?

[Sea of Time]

I guess that means I can take you off my list. And after all that help I gave you!......

Oh well. I watched the new trailer for the first time yesterday and the thing that most intrigued me was the new stages. They were very detailed, and frankly, quite beautiful. I can't wait to play these stages because I'm really tired of the ones on SSBM and have been wanting some new ones for quite some time.

[Aquamarine]

Yeah, you can take me off the list. It's a long story, but I don't have MSN anymore...

The stages do seem very good, but just not diverce and different enough to the Melee stages. Yeah, night/day and seasons that change are all cool and swell, but they don't change the arena and the fights at all.

[Sea of Time]

I especially like the stage where the floors crumbled after the characters stepped on them. There was so much detail in the actual crumbling, it was awesome!

I thought that that stage looked like something from LoZ, can anyone enlighten me as to where that stage really is based from?

[Caael]

Aquamarine, on Nov 14 2006, 06:51 PM, said:

And Caeel, I er... don't have MSN. Yeah, I know it's strange. Can you maybe provide us with the link please?

I got it off LimeWire, so no link. And in your profile, it says you have MSN, so...

[Sea of Time]

If he has email, you can send the file to him. That's what I do when I 'share' files with my friends.

[Caael]

I'm emailing it right now, but I doubt it will work.

Edit: Didnt work. Get MSN, then I can send it to you.

[Aquamarine]

I have amended my profile. Look, I sort of have MSN but I also sort of don't. As I said, it's complicated!
You may have sent me an E-mail Caael, but I sure can't check it. The thing is, my comp is totally ****ed up and I've just moved it to another room so some thigs have to be set up and stuff. Thanks for trying though.
I'll try and find the music somewhere on the internet. There must be some place...

[Golden Legacy]

Here is a link that contains 8 different versions of the trailer to download or watch.

LINK

[Caael]

Are they all different trailers, or just with different players?

[Golden Legacy]

Different players, formats, file size, etc. but same trailer.

[Caael]

Ah, I see. Thanks.


I would like to see a bit more variation with the characters this time around. Link's Bombs are getting old, and a lot of other moves should be replaced.

[Toasty]

Aquamarine, on Nov 11 2006, 01:30 PM, said:

Imagine a Co-Op multiplayer Adventure Mode. That would rock! Up to 4 people at once going through the Muchroom Kingdom and other such areas.
Also, a different Adventure for every character would be cool, but that's probably asking for too much.

Sorry for pulling up an old post, but if I remeber right, they were hopeing to have something different for every character in Adventure mode. Kinda like break the targets, but for the whole Adventure mode. I'm just remembering things off the top of my head, so I could be wrong. I got it all off of IGN and Dojo, so check there.

[Golden Legacy]

I think having multiplayer event modes would be very interesting i.e. working together to accomplish certain tasks.



EDIT: NEW SCREENSHOTS HAVE BEEN UNVEILED!

[My Best Wishes]

Four things
1. I like how they are having some characters/levels more cartoony and some more realistic. Link compared to Kirby/Pichahu.
2. Look at Links Triforce move!
3. What is up with that Nintendog.
4. More air combat, good.

[Aquamarine]

Yeah, we all know about Links Triforce attack. That'll be his Super
Smash, the attack he does when he picks up the Smash Emblem.
The Nintendog will probably be an item which will block the screen so that other players can't see well. I guess it'll be quite good for online play.

I've seen those screens. They're cool, but not very informative.

[Golden Legacy]

There are some new screens on the link that feature the new arenas that were revealed at the Nintendo World trailer a few weeks ago.

The trailer that was shown at Nintendo World is now available, direct-feed, from the official website!

[Sea of Time]

Not huge news, but news all the same. Those screens don't tell me anything, I'm not interested unless I see some new attacks or characters.

[Golden Legacy]

And just be aware of the new trailer, which is now available. If the new screens don't do it, then the trailer will.

[Sea of Time]

As long as there are still only two trailers, I've seen all the SSBB trailers there are. Both were really good, I like at the end of the second one where they show all the characters they've revealed so far.

[Ryu Flamestrike]

Man i want this game so bad

on a sort of related topic who was your best characters on Melee

mine were

Fox
Link
and Roy

[Sea of Time]

Mine were Falco, Roy, and Marth. I use Falco all the time because I find him the easiest to control.

[Aquamarine]

This kind of discussion really should go to the Melee topic. This topic is only about Brawl, not the whole Smash Bros. series.

Hey... Maybe instead of having two separate topics we could just have one Smash Bros. topic? It would make things easier and more convenient.

[Golden Legacy]

Actually, that's a great idea. I'll close this topic, and someone feel free to create a general Super Smash Bros. topic for all three games (Original, Melee, Brawl). A new Brawl topic will be added as the games' launch approaches.

[Topic Closed]