[Golden Legacy]

Well, of course it is. No one is denying that.

Also, keep in mind that had Sakurai refused, Iwata was planning on just taking Melee from GC and bringing it online. That's it.

[Laharl]

go go innovation powers

how does such an unimaginative ****wit get such an important job?

[TheEnglishman]

Man that would have been lazy. Not only that but doesn't online Brawl suffer from lag? Surely that would also apply to an updated Melee?

[Caael]

I swear i must have put it on hard or something because I get KO'd straight away due to enemies dealing 10% damage.

And no, it's not because i'm crap, I can hold my own against a team of lvl 7's.

[Legolastom]

I just wish Sakurai refused the job, I would rather an unoriginal game (Wait how is Brawl that original anyway? O wait stickers!) that gave the fans what they wanted (Refine the gameplay a bit more, competant online, moar of everything else) rather than deprove the game and spend a ****load of time on something you care more about than the people who want the game (Subspace, its good but if that wasnt included then the multiplayer / online would be much better).

Or something.

[Golden Legacy]

You have to remember it's also the console. The reason online is weak isn't because Smash was developed with a bad online mode, it's because the Wii itself has subpar online capabilities.

I can't remember where I read it, but part of the reason that the gameplay was slowed down from Melee and freeze-frames are so prominent was just because of the online mode. A service like Nintendo's likely wouldn't have been able to handle Melee's speed and gameplay online at all, so it was decided very early on in the game's development to "lessen" the gameplay speed and mechanics so it would at least be possible online.


Keep that in mind. That said, my own personal opinion is that you guys are being unnecessarily harsh on something that works fine. Smash's gameplay has always been about hectic multiplayer battles. It may have gotten more wild during multiplayer brawls (the camera zooming out often is one slight complaint I have), but it's still a solid and fun game engine.

[Drizzy Drake]

I'm just not playing it anywhere near the ammount I played Melee.

[Caael]

What annoys me most about Brawl is the excessive amount of moving stages. It's a fighting game, not a keep up with the platform so you dont die game.

[Golden Legacy]

So either play on the Melee stages or play on the Brawl stages that don't have the stage moving. I don't see what's hard about that.

[Caael]

Oh no, I'm not saying I dont do that, but I feel there could be more static stages instead of having lots of moving stages. Pork City would be great without the damn chimera, and Spear Pillar would be awesome if it wasn't for the constant stage moving.

[Someone Else]

It shows. Brawl doesn't feel like a 6 years in the making game.

[Golden Legacy]

Golden Legacy, on Jul 4 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

So apparently development time was actually limited for Brawl.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/...cle.php?id=4964

Golden Legacy, on Jul 4 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

When Iwata first mentioned a Smash Bros. game for the "Revolution" (now called Wii) at E3 2005, there was no such game yet. No team, nothing. Sakurai didn't even know that Nintendo was thinking about a new Smash game, that was the first time he had heard about it.

Iwata approached him later that day and asked if he would be willing to resume his role as director. Sakurai agreed, and a studio/team was put together.

Early game concept and development began October 2005.

Golden Legacy, on Jul 4 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Game development isn't something that you work on the moment your studio is ready. It's not a "okay, time to make Brawl, everyone GO!"

There's a lot of planning that goes into it, a lot of analysis that plots out the progress of the game's development. The conceptual stage where ideas are being refined and carried out to see if they're viable. For a game as massive as Brawl, it's a huge process to go through, much less actually beginning the programming and debugging.

Golden Legacy, on Jul 4 2008, 04:02 PM, said:

Also, keep in mind that had Sakurai refused, Iwata was planning on just taking Melee from GC and bringing it online. That's it.

[Laharl]

it just shows more failure on Nintendo's part. Square were started worked on FFIX before they'd finished VIII.

Nintendo are just lazy these days, their glory days are long gone, why put so much effort into something when the half assed effort will sell just as well.

[Caael]

Hahaha omg my older brother is the worst smash player ever. He'll sit in a corner, spamming the C-stick, and occasionally using >B (he's Ganondorf) and as soon as the final smash appears, he runs for it, usually gets it, because me and my little brother are so focused on fighting the com/each other so he uses the smash and kills us all. When he wins, he acts like he's all high and mighty despite the fact that I got 13 kills and he got 4. And when he doesnt win, he calls it the worst game in the world

[Toasty]

I find myself playing on either Final Destination or Temple when I play. Pork City, Delfino Island, and some other one are my other, more used choices.

But yeah, that's the problem with SSB and fighters in general (though personally, I find it more of a problem in traditional fighters. Sue me. :unsure:). Spamming moves is an easy way for newbs to get kills. The "use a move repetitively and it eventually sucks" thing is supposed to deter that though.

[Legolastom]

Well Sakurai is an idiot for ruining the game for a multiplayer where you cant even talk to people.

[Caael]

Sakurai's an idiot for making up ****, and making false promises. Brawl isn't a bad game, but it could have had oh so much more.

[Legolastom]

I would agree that he may have made a few things up, but not false promises.

[Drizzy Drake]

He fucking promised no clones.

[Legolastom]

Ok yeah now I remember Sakurai is more of a ****ing ****.

[Kuchiyose]

Quote

He ****ing promised no clones.

I know, i don't understand why they using clone characters? i mean these people are geniuses when it comes to game design, there getting paid good money and I think they can make new move sets for characters quite easily.

[gsninja]

My one complaint about Brawl is its competitive scene. As a casual game, Brawl is fantastic. As a competitive game, it will never reach the same level of competition as Melee unless a bunch of techs are discovered and/or new combos with characters are found.

The problem with Brawl's metagame is that it's too defensive. Unlike in Melee, you're rewarded for camping and, to a lesser extent, spamming while players putting more offense into their tactics are the ones that get punished more easily. At this point, battles just degrade into excessive defensive play, like too much dodging, with matches that take too long.

If Brawl's physics were like Melee's, it would be better. It's too bad the Wii wasn't strong enough to maintain those physics while having online at the same time. Actually, if we start seeing more battles like this:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=HEm-rQHRtvQ

We might see a more interesting metagame develop. Seriously, these Japanese players make Brawl look like Melee.

[Caael]

Halp with final boss plx? That ****ing wing attack always kills me, even if I dodge or shield.

[gsninja]

Wing attack? You mean the Red Rings of Death? You just need to dodge them. As for the other attacks, they're very easy to dodge as well, except for the whip. That's a little tricky.

[Caael]

Yeah but each attack does 20%, and if you're caught in the middle of a combo you're screwed/

[gsninja]

Tabuu doesn't really have combos. Here, I'll break down each attack:

Golden Cage: Y'know, when he starts at one side of the stage as a shiny golden cage thingy and moves to the other side. If you get caught, you're dropped on your head. It's actually very easy to dodge this, just dodge right before he's about to touch you.

Whip: You need decent timing to get this one dodged. Dodge right as he pulls his arm back to throw his whip out.

Bullets + Uber massive blast: All you need to do is stand back as far away as possible. If you end up behind him, smack him.

Giant Face: This attack just asks for a beating. All you need to do is keep to the air and smack his face until he stops shooting lasers.

Red Rings of Death: Well, you definitely need timing for this. Like with the whip, dodge right before the rings reach your spot and you'll be able to dodge all three rings.

The other attacks aren't even worth mentioning, since they're so predictable.

[Drizzy Drake]

Wow, Caael, you had trouble with the final boss? You really do suck.

[Nosferatu]

GSN, please tell me what's so amazing about that match.

[gsninja]

Nosferatu, on Jul 6 2008, 04:57 PM, said:

GSN, please tell me what's so amazing about that match.

It's definitely at a faster pace than any other match I've ever seen. Honestly, that match is almost like looking at a Melee battle in terms of pace. It's amazing because, if most battles end up as fast=paced as that, Brawl would become more interesting.

[Nosferatu]

Hmm. I play like that at least. I can't stand a slow match.

[Gio]

I try to play a quick paced match like that when I am offline, but doing that online is rather difficult because of the lag.

[Nosferatu]

Oh by the way, anybody who uses Pit in the tourney and spams his B, I'll see to it personally that you die slowly.

Actually, anybody who spams anything.

[Toasty]

O RLY?

I'm the KING of spam, you know. ;)


Anyway, I had a lot of trouble beating Tabu, until I figured out you could dodge the rings. <.<

And I usually try to move as fast as I can, but when it's online, I might as well play with one finger. I always liked lightning melee.

[Laharl]

metagame? it isnt a card game >_>

care to explain how Brawl "metagaming" works?

[Legolastom]

"Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. In other words, sometimes using out-of-game information, or resources, to affect one's in-game decisions."

[Laharl]

i know what metagaming is >_>

i just cant see how it can applied to fighting game.

[Legolastom]

The study and adaptation of an ever changing tier list and the discovery of ATs and strategies that players would pick up on and use. I dunno.

[Laharl]

faggotry in other words.

i'm sorry but people who've got nothing better to do than come up with this **** fail at life

[Drizzy Drake]

Laharl, you are so mean. ;).

[Laharl]

Person 1: Hey, wanna go out tonight?
Brawl***: Nah, i've gotta figure out the best way to utilize the Samurai Goro AT against Marth on New Pork City

somebody pass me the OED, because failure needs a new definition adding

[Drizzy Drake]

Yeah, that is preatty lame.

[TheEnglishman]

Laharl, on Jul 8 2008, 12:16 AM, said:

faggotry in other words.

i'm sorry but people who've got nothing better to do than come up with this **** fail at life

Yeah those fools should be watching obscure japanese cartoons instead. ;) (I'm joking Laharl don't eat me!)
That being said, I understand your point. If it was me, I'd just play the game for fun, rather than analyse it. It's what I did in Melee.

[Laharl]

damn right they should! XD

i dont see competitive Brawl as a worthwhile business venture, i cant see people making a living off it therefore there is no need for all the uber analytical bull****

[TheEnglishman]

Yeah, you don't see this being applied to other fighting games like Tekken.

[Toasty]

I think as far as Brawl goes, it'd be more along the lines of manipulating the physics engine. Like wavedashing in Melee (which seems fairly pointless in most cases to me).

I figured out how to do a down arial really low to the ground and move sideways at the same time with Marth, but it only took me about a minute, and it was while I was waiting for a match to start online.

[Drizzy Drake]

I've actually won a few matches with wavedashing.

[Legolastom]

Hey Laharl have you ever thought that maybe they like the play at a competative level?

[TheEnglishman]

Competitive level? That's taking a kid's game a bit seriously isn't it?

[gsninja]

Some games are more fun at a competitive level than at a casual one. Brawl is no exception for me. Sometimes, it's actually fun when people eventually discover enough techniques and whatnot to completely transform a game at a certain level. Casual matches are fun too, but just not like a competitive one, where you actually find greater challenges.

[Caael]

I dont see the point in all this analysis stuff for games. I mean, it's fine playing them competitively, but it's stupid to try and find the best ways of winning and whatnot.

[Nyktos]

Me111, on Jul 8 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Competitive level? That's taking a kid's game a bit seriously isn't it?

Pokemon is a "kid's game" too and it has one of the most complex competitive scenes I've ever seen. I don't really think that the game's target age group has any bearing on how competitive it can be.

[gsninja]

Caael, on Jul 8 2008, 12:09 PM, said:

I dont see the point in all this analysis stuff for games. I mean, it's fine playing them competitively, but it's stupid to try and find the best ways of winning and whatnot.

Well, in competition, you play to win. In order to win, you're going to want to find the best ways to do so, y'know?

Also, Nyktos is right. Although I don't do it nearly as much anymore, I played Pokemon competitively for a good while and there's a lot of stuff associated with its competitive scene. As a matter of fact, no game is generally a "kid's game" if there's a whole set of "hidden" mechanics and whatnot behind the general mechanics of it.

[Golden Legacy]

Just saying that I agree on both ends here. Competitive play has personally never been for me, and while I'd never be able to get as involved in the metagame, more power to those who who do and enjoy it.

[TheEnglishman]

Casual playing just seems more fun to me.

[Toasty]

I'm fine either way. And I can't wavedsh, therefore it's useless. ;)

[Legolastom]

I find casual games boring and frustrating.

[Toasty]

I find casual games casual.

[Saturos S.]

Competitive games are frustrating and make me go play outside.

udunwannahavkidzplayoutsidebecuzthatshealthyzomg!!!!11!

[Drizzy Drake]

Me111, on Jul 8 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Competitive level? That's taking a kid's game a bit seriously isn't it?

What about Halo? That's a "kid's game" and it has some super competitive people.

Competitive games can be fun if it's not too competitive. If you still have fun even if you lose, it's allright. But when you get to the level where you destroy your controller because that kid from Orlando beat you, that's when competitive gaming gets ruined.

[Blue]

I think some people fail to notice that Super Smash Bros. Melee was a game featured in MLG, and people were making money playing competitively. Theres always tournaments for Smash Bros. all over the place.

[Drizzy Drake]

No, people aren't making money playing it competitively. Only Ken and Isai are, since they win almost every turney they're in. XD. Seriously, I've watched atleast 10 Smash turneys, and Ken/Isai came out on top 8 times.

And what year was it in MLG?

[inthenameofDT]

i play the original smash bros on my computer regularly, and melee every so often on my GC.

dont own a wii, so my time with brawl is limited.

one of the most entertaining games out there.

[Caael]

It's not really an MLG game if it's unbalanced. A game has to be incredibly balanced for it to be used in tournaments and stuff, or you'll be getting whiney *****es who complain after losing, because your character is better somehow. I'd say stuff like Tekken and Soul caliber are quite balanced.

[Toasty]

When you get to a certain skill level in Melee, the tier list goes out the window. In that sense, Melee is balanced enough.

Anyway, HOLY ****ING ****! MLG HAD A NON-FPS GAME?!

[Legolastom]

Well I remember the 2006 MLG finals between PC Chris and Ken, that was good. And caael a game doesnt necessarily need to be balanced to be in MLG, just have a large enough competative scene.

[Toasty]

Can you re-word that? I don't quite understand what you're saying.

[Legolastom]

Dar.

[Toasty]

Now that I've read it for the fourth time, it makes more sense, but what was the game that Chris and Ken played?

[Laharl]

Legolastom, on Jul 8 2008, 07:17 PM, said:

Hey Laharl have you ever thought that maybe they like the play at a competative level?

well they'd have to, its still pathetic that their metagame faggotry is the only way they can get it up

gsninja, on Jul 8 2008, 08:08 PM, said:

Some games are more fun at a competitive level than at a casual one. Brawl is no exception for me. Sometimes, it's actually fun when people eventually discover enough techniques and whatnot to completely transform a game at a certain level. Casual matches are fun too, but just not like a competitive one, where you actually find greater challenges.

GSN is "that guy" XP

[Drizzy Drake]

"PC Chris" and "Ken", their gaming names, fought in the 2006 MLG finals.

[gsninja]

Laharl, on Jul 9 2008, 02:32 AM, said:

well they'd have to, its still pathetic that their metagame faggotry is the only way they can get it up
GSN is "that guy" XP

XD

It's not like I hate casual matches. I still find them fun as well, just...not as much as a competitive one, lol.

[Blue]

Well, I like to keep a balance of everything, but people complain that I defend a lot, probably because they never defend. xD

[Gio]

I've been going on the defense a lot recently, but I am still pretty much a charge and hope for the best kind of guy, I do know what I am doing though so it isn't like I am button mashing.

[Blue]

So I'm playing against GL right now. Lets see how he handles.

[Golden Legacy]

Needless to say I've been pwned.

[Blue]

That match when I was Ganondorf was hilarious though. And the last one was for ****s and giggles.

[Gio]

I would like to fight GL sometime. And I want to see if I can beat you now blue. I am just not sure my internet is up to it yet. lol

[Blue]

Lol, any practice I can get for the tournement would be awesome.

[Gio]

You wanna duke it out a couple of times now? I can only get a few in.

[gsninja]

I've played Lin, Blue, and Escout here, but I don't think I've ever had the chance to fight anyone else.

[Blue]

I think we only fought once though Ninja. A shame too. D:

[Gio]

I will gladly play 2 or 3 matches right now with somebody. any takers?

[Blue]

Lets do it

[Gio]

Alright. I am online waiting.

[gsninja]

I can't play today, though, since I'm leaving for a friend's house to spend the rest of the day and the night at. ;) I'll probably play someone here tomorrow.

[Gio]

that milisecond of lag kills me especially when i used lucas

[Blue]

Yeah the lag is a *****. D:

[Laharl]

post your "hey wanna brawl?" bullshit here for ****s sake

[Nosferatu]

You've got nothing to say Larhal. This IS the Brawl topic. If people want to talk about having a match here it's ****ing welcome.

You don't like Brawl and you have nothing to say. Why do you hang around the topic?

[Laharl]

well the other thread was created so that kind of **** wouldnt spam this thread

true i dont like Brawl much but this is the Super Smash Bros. thread, i happen to like Melee a lot so i'll post as much as i ****ing want here

[Nosferatu]

So people can't talk about Brawl here but you can talk about Melee? Besides, nobody is going to stop posting just because all-mighty Laharl wants them to.

[Drizzy Drake]

Laharl, on Jul 9 2008, 06:55 PM, said:

post your "hey wanna brawl?" bullshit here for ****s sake

Shut the fuck up please.

[Nosferatu]

Dipset, on Jul 9 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

Shut the fuck up please.

*appluad* That sums it up well. That's why I like you Dipsy.

Also, I got the first post on the page of my number. Kickass.

[Drizzy Drake]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. And yay, you got that first post. Now when page 420 rolls along, I expect to get the first post.

[Blue]

Laharl doesn't even talk about Melee in the first place, he *****es about how he doesn't like Brawl. =/

[Drizzy Drake]

Exactly. Let's play a game. It's called Find The Last Post That Laharl Made About Melee.

[Split Infinity]

Do random 'Melee is better than Brawl' comments count?

[Laharl]

Dipset, on Jul 10 2008, 01:25 AM, said:

Shut the fuck up please.

how about no

Nosferatu, on Jul 10 2008, 01:27 AM, said:

So people can't talk about Brawl here but you can talk about Melee? Besides, nobody is going to stop posting just because all-mighty Laharl wants them to.

congratulations, you have to warp my words to make a worthwhile comment. GTFO.

i asked people to post in the right thread, that's all, get it in your thick moronic skull

Blue, on Jul 10 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

Laharl doesn't even talk about Melee in the first place, he *****es about how he doesn't like Brawl. =/

Laharl, on Jul 1 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

i've played melee for 6 years, so yeah my reaction timer is appauling :/

i played with pads of varying quality, but even with the fully working ones its not as responsive as melee

please be quiet, and stop following the crowd.

Dipset, on Jul 10 2008, 01:55 AM, said:

Exactly. Let's play a game. It's called Find The Last Post That Laharl Made About Melee.

lets play another game. Its called Count The Number Of Posts By Skid That Are Actually Worthwhile.

[Nosferatu]

So that's 8 days ago?

And please explain how this is not the thread to talk about Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It's like saying you can't talk about Megaman III in the Megaman thread.

[Drizzy Drake]

Laharl, on Jul 9 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

how about no

Ugh, I hate repeating myself. Please shut the fuck up. At first it didn't bug me, but your know-it-all persona is really fucking annoying.

Quote

congratulations, you have to warp my words to make a worthwhile comment. GTFO.

No, you GTFO. :).

Quote

lets play another game. Its called Count The Number Of Posts By Skid That Are Actually Worthwhile.

Oh, I know the answer to that one. Wait, um. It's.......you're a faggot. Did I win?

[Blue]

Well any ways. I'm starting to question if I should swap out Sonic for Snake for the Tourney, though I doubt I'll use anyone else besides Yoshi.

[Laharl]

Nosferatu, on Jul 10 2008, 02:14 AM, said:

So that's 8 days ago?

And please explain how this is not the thread to talk about Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It's like saying you can't talk about Megaman III in the Megaman thread.

HO SHIT 8 DAYS!? WHAT AN EPIC PERIOD OF TIME

there arent post about mele after that one :b

you were the claimed this was the "brawl thread", i was merely reminding you discussion of the original and melee is allowed.

maybe it'll get through on the third time. I HAVE NOT ONCE SAID YOU CANNOT DISCUSS BRAWL.. FFS LEARN TO ****ING READ

Dipset, on Jul 10 2008, 02:15 AM, said:

Ugh, I hate repeating myself. Please shut the fuck up. At first it didn't bug me, but your know-it-all persona is really fucking annoying.
No, you GTFO. :).
Oh, I know the answer to that one. Wait, um. It's.......you're a faggot. Did I win?

dont worry, your spam happy, flame happy wigga persona is really annoying too :)

yeah...you totally won.....if you can only flame dont even bother responding.

[Nosferatu]

Yes you dumb****. And I reminded you that if people want to talk about Brawling here, they very much can.

And you know he's grabbing for a rope by the lack of punctuation and amount of capitals. Or is this how all 15 year olds type?

[Drizzy Drake]

Laharl, on Jul 9 2008, 09:24 PM, said:

HO SHIT 8 DAYS!? WHAT AN EPIC PERIOD OF TIME

Hmm, well since everything since then has been "brawl sux" "brawl is gay" "I'm gay"

O c wut i d1d thure?1

dont worry, your spam happy, flame happy wigga persona is really annoying too :)

Can somebody please point out once where I claimed to be hard or a gangster? Please. Nos? Gio? Split? Anybody?

Oh, and you spam more than Toasty jacks off, so I wouldn't be bitching about my spam.

yeah...you totally won.....if you can only flame dont even bother responding.

Ok, I guess I shouldn't respond because Mr.WhatISayMattersAndOther'sOpinionsDon't told me to.

Fucking dumbass.

[Laharl]

@Nos: you do realise commenting on grammar and such is the trademark sign of defeat in an arguement right?

@Skid: wow you told me

[Drizzy Drake]

Quote

Can somebody please point out once where I claimed to be hard or a gangster? Please. Nos? Gio? Split? Anybody?

[Nosferatu]

No, I am merely pointing out the fact that you can no longer seem to reach the shift key more then 3 times per post.

Now, unless Laharl has more *****ing and whining to do, can we get back to talking about the game?

Edit: Oh, sorry. Games. Wouldn't want to upset the poor baby.

[Drizzy Drake]

Quote

Can somebody please point out once where I claimed to be hard or a gangster? Please. Nos? Gio? Split? Anybody?

Laharl ^



Ontopic-Has anybody besides me done the giant Jigglypuff glitch on Eldin Bridge?

[Blue]

Nah, didn't care for that glitch. Not as awesome as the Blackhole glitch.

[Nosferatu]

Dipset, on Jul 9 2008, 06:34 PM, said:

Laharl ^
Ontopic-Has anybody besides me done the giant Jigglypuff glitch on Eldin Bridge?

I tried it once. Pretty odd.

And I've gotta work on breaking in this damn controller.

[Drizzy Drake]

Well duh. I bet somebody will find something akin to the blackhole glitch. Wait, has anybody even tried the blackhole glitch in Brawl?

EDIT-Please say you use the GC controller.

[Nosferatu]

What's the black hole glitch? I heard about it once but I can't remember it. Is it cloning the items in... Oooooooh. I remember it now. I tried it once in Melee. Do you do it the same way in Brawl?

[Laharl]

Nosferatu, on Jul 10 2008, 02:33 AM, said:

No, I am merely pointing out the fact that you can no longer seem to reach the shift key more then 3 times per post.

Now, unless Laharl has more *****ing and whining to do, can we get back to talking about the game?

Edit: Oh, sorry. Games. Wouldn't want to upset the poor baby.

yeah...because words lose all their meaning when they're not capitalized >_>

Skid please, you're interrupting my discussion with Nos

[Nosferatu]

Yet I replied to Dipsy. Could that mean...*gasp*...I don't care? Oh ****. Somebody NOT CARING what Laharl has to say. The ****ing sky is falling.

Side note: The hell? Did that Snake just do a Melee style air dodge?

[Blue]

Laharl, your interupting everyone elses conversation. Talk about Smash or just stop posting here.
Maybe I can get some people together to give it a try. Or we can do it online. That would be funny.

[Nosferatu]

Damn, thanks Blue. Reminds me I have to add people for the tourney. I'll get to that in a bit.

[Drizzy Drake]

Nosferatu, on Jul 9 2008, 09:38 PM, said:

What's the black hole glitch? I heard about it once but I can't remember it. Is it cloning the items in... Oooooooh. I remember it now. I tried it once in Melee. Do you do it the same way in Brawl?

Two foxes, and peach are needed. Oh, and a Ness if you want to make the Supernova glitch. That one's funny.

@ Laharl-Well so am I. You're not the only person posting in this topic you pretentious fuck.

[Blue]

Super Nova? I gotta look that one up...

[Drizzy Drake]

There's the black hole, the supernova, and the ultranova. Basically they just get bigger, and more intense with each itteration.

[Laharl]

i'll end with this

i've posted my views on Brawl on many other forums, albeit none of them located in the Nintendo motherland, but still there have been zero drama llama possessions.

[Blue]

Alright, we're done. Now time to talk Smash.
So these other glitches, how are they done?

[Split Infinity]

XDD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydJVGPLlSI...feature=related

[Gio]

Dipset, on Jul 9 2008, 08:34 PM, said:

Laharl ^
Ontopic-Has anybody besides me done the giant Jigglypuff glitch on Eldin Bridge?

I saw a video on youtube where they did that glitch on the windwaker stage.

edit: found it. It is done in about the middle of the video
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=5ulfZpqLZ4M

Split Infinity, on Jul 9 2008, 09:27 PM, said:

XDD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydJVGPLlSI...feature=related

That's pretty cool. I had seen the black hole one, but never the ultra nova.

[Toasty]

You can never have too much defending. Heck, you can't hope to win a match against a more skilled player without it. Defending and dogdeing alike.


Anyway, I could use some practice. Anyone up for a match?

[Caael]

I'm wondering if I should discard Ike as my main, and work on Snake. Is this a good idea?

[Golden Legacy]

Yes, please. Spamming Ikes are the most annoying @#$%^ to deal with.
Not to mention Snake's got a beard. can't beat that.

[gsninja]

Golden Legacy, on Jul 10 2008, 09:26 AM, said:

Yes, please. Spamming Ikes are the most annoying @#$%^ to deal with.
Not to mention Snake's got a beard. can't beat that.

I main Ike and he's really not that annoying to deal with. especially spamming Ikes. Most people don't even know how to play Ike correctly anyways, so Ike players are usually some of the easier opponents to fight. You should see some Ike players I've fought, though; they're good.

As for Snake, you should see Tapion's. He's #1 on SBR and he ****ing kicks ass.

[Gio]

I am surprised so many people actually like snake. For some reason I just can't get the hang of him. He is the only character I really have trouble using. His smash attacks especially throw me off.

[gsninja]

Snake is generally considered the best character in the game. He can play mindgames with his landmines and M4, his tilts are godly, he's a heavyweight, strong as hell, and his Cypher covers a great horizontal distance for recovery.

[Golden Legacy]

I agree, from what I've seen with Snake, he is absolutely destructive. My only complaint about him is his dash forward attack - he rolls onto the ground, which is rather awkward in the midst of a battle.

[Gio]

Well I LOVE to use smash attacks and his set is just confusing and little awkward.

[Nyktos]

I agree with Gio. I phail@Snake.

[gsninja]

Well, this is gay. There's a huge tourney hosted by AxisGaming that I want to go to, but it's friggin' five hours and 45 minutes away from where I live.

[Drizzy Drake]

Thinknig of bringing my Wii out of hiding, but will only do so if people wanna fight. Anybody up for Brawling>?

Also, I need a third main. I have Link/Young Link, Pokemon Trainer(Squirtle is pimp), and I need a third. I'm thinknig of Sonic, but I don't know.

[Legolastom]

This game epic fails.

[Someone Else]

Dipset, on Jul 14 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

Thinknig of bringing my Wii out of hiding, but will only do so if people wanna fight. Anybody up for Brawling>?

Also, I need a third main. I have Link/Young Link, Pokemon Trainer(Squirtle is pimp), and I need a third. I'm thinknig of Sonic, but I don't know.

I'd say Ike but everybody likes Ike. Try Snake. He's fun if a little odd.

[Mallick]

Nobody likes Ike. That said, holy my mom online for brawl sucks, y/n?

[Legolastom]

Yes. And snake is broken.

[Mallick]

Not really, everyone knows how to counter Snake now.

[Golden Legacy]

If there is any character who's broken, it's Ike. Especially his normal standard A combo, it's ridiculous!

[Someone Else]

Golden Legacy, on Jul 30 2008, 08:00 PM, said:

If there is any character who's broken, it's Ike. Especially his normal standard A combo, it's ridiculous!

This.

Snake is just an unusual character, and is far from broken. His air attacks suck/are slow.

[Mallick]

Golden Legacy, on Jul 30 2008, 08:00 PM, said:

If there is any character who's broken, it's Ike. Especially his normal standard A combo, it's ridiculous!

Didn't I recently get banned for trolling, GL?


... Not only do I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, don't give me another reason to ban you.

It was relevant to the topic, met word limit and didn't insult anyone.

Then what did you mean by "trolling"?

You couldn't be serious when you said Ike was OP.

[Golden Legacy]

On another topic, does anyone remember the advanced tech that gsninja posted a while ago? The one that involves a dash going into the Up Smash? I'm trying to do it, can't seem to get the hang of it.

[Mallick]

I was merely implying that Ike is far from broken - he's not even good.

I haven't heard of the dash -> up smash in awhile, I mean, most characters don't get great distance with it. Then there was the Mortar slide with Snake, and everyone can counter that now. ):

[Golden Legacy]

Ike as a character may not be broken - but that particular move is. Same with Metaknight - not impossible to beat, but his midair A moves are simply overpowered.

[Nosferatu]

Golden Legacy, on Jul 31 2008, 03:50 PM, said:

Ike as a character may not be broken - but that particular move is. Same with Metaknight - not impossible to beat, but his midair A moves are simply overpowered.

<3 Meta Knight.

And the technique, I actually figured that one out before GSN posted it. You run and if you do it quick enough you can start charging your smash while sliding a bit. I think it might work with the C Stick too.

[Joek2]

Young Link FTW!

When are we gonna get a tier list?

[Legolastom]

I dunno but why are you asking these guys?

[Mallick]

There's already a tier list based on tournament wins.

EDIT: Source

Top Teer:
mario (whenever my brother plays as mario i cant beat him)
sonic (hes to fast!)
yoshi (his tongu reaches really far and when you roll around in the egg its hard for people to hit u)
boswer (hes really strong and if u get traped in flamthrower ur stuck there forever)
manaphy (i dont no how to unlock him but it says u can on youtube and i bet hes really strong)

Upper Teer:
ike (his smashs is really strong and hes really fast with his forward B )
captin falcon (falcon punch is really strong and he is really fast but not like sonic)
pokeman trainer (when u switch pokemans u r invinsible and ivysaur has great recovery because he can grab the ege instantly)
ganondorf (he is even stronger than captin falcon but he is not as fast)
samus (his charg shot is really strong but samus is not that good bcuz sometimes he turns into a girl i dont no why)

High Teer:
jigglypuff (she is really fast in the air so u can run away from poeple and do rolllout)
link (he has a good final smash and his arrows can stop people but all bomb does is make u get hurt)
luigi (he is like mario but his up b only does 1 damage and he jumps to high)
diddy kong (he is pretty fast but his bananas dont do much and neither do his penuts)
pikachu (his thunderbolt is strong but it hits him as well and i think it hurts him and his dsmash is the best in the game)
fox (he is fast but i kill myself by acident with his side b! so hes not that good)

Mid Teer:
toon link (hes just a week version of normal link)
zelda (her smashs look week and i cant hit with dins fire but she can teleport so nobody knows where she is going to apear)
peach (she can pull as many turnips out of the ground as she wants and hit people with them and she can float to)
olimar (he can pull up turnips like peach but he cant float so hes not as good)
ice climbers (there are two of them its hard to control but when one of them dies its easier)
pit (his arrows ruel the levl but i keep gliding acidentaly and his voice is werd)

Low Teer:
ness (hes just a kid so what do u expect his baseball bat doesnt even kill people in one hit and he doesnt have a triple jump) oh and lucas is the same as ness just without the cap
lucario (he's week and his charge ball is not as big as samus's i was disapointed because he was like mewtwo who was one of the best chars in the last game)
wario (his bike is hard 2 beet but his fart takes 2 long and his recovery is terible the triple jump barely goes anywhere)
donkey kong (hes 2 fat and slow and always gets left behind on bramble blast)
kirby (he can copy powers but he is really week and it says he is good at edgeguarding so i stand on the edge and charge up a smash attack when i hit someone off but it doesnt work)
wolf (wolf is jus liek fox, except hes slower and his side be goes up(wierd i no) so he sucks)
Bottom Teer:
marth (hes really week especially his forward smash, ike is way better)
mr. game and watch (his hammer is week and he is weird and all he does is hold an empty bucket)
falco (hes like fox but even worse hes slow, his lasers are week and do little damage, samus's charge shot is much better, his reflecter doesnt stay out forever and i still die with his side B )
king deedede (hes realy slow his smashes r good but i always mis with his recovery and his waddle dees suck)
metanight (were all bad with him and he cant kill and i always die by using his b moves! and his upsamsh doesnt even kill atall)
snake (the very worst char, all he does is blows himslef up. i dont know why hes in the game)

[gsninja]

Nosferatu, on Jul 31 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

<3 Meta Knight.

And the technique, I actually figured that one out before GSN posted it. You run and if you do it quick enough you can start charging your smash while sliding a bit. I think it might work with the C Stick too.

That's not really what I was talking about, though. =P I was talking about doing an UpSmash out of a dash attack, not just running and doing an Up Smash.

Also, have you guys heard of MK's Infinite Dimensional Cape yet? Because of it, he's now considered better than Snake, although barely. It's banned if you use it for stalling, but you can still use it for approach and whatnot.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=PdmwKfPchms

[Mallick]

Not really, the guy that posted it (weeks ago, btw) was right when he said as soon as people start abusing it, it will become illegal.

[gsninja]

You probably won't see abuse for some time, though. The tech itself is a bit difficult to get down. I haven't seen many people able to perform it consistently, jmuch less do it at all. A pretty good player I know isn't even able to do it himself.

[Mallick]

I can do it, but not online (I can't do much of anything online, really). I'm not an MK though (I'm an Ike) so I have no practical use for it.

[Joek2]

Wait, so they are spam existing topics aswell? ****.

Just report them please.

[Zangetsu]

http://www.smashboar...ad.php?t=192028
Official Tier List for SSBB

Currently metaknight is in ban talks because he has no counterpick. i.e. no single character that has an advantage over him.

I main Lucario with Pit and Snake as my decent secondaries. Lucarios aura once you know how it works is a big help.

[Someone Else]

Alright, I'm finally at the point where I can say I'm fairly decent at this game since I have many friends who are pretty much obsessed with it. But does anybody know how to deal with people who stand at edges and spam ranged attacks? I main Link but also very frequently play Luigi and Toon Link, sometimes play Snake and occasionally play Pokemon Trainer (mostly Ivysaur) and Ike.

[Caael]

Someone Else, on Nov 23 2008, 11:32 PM, said:

Alright, I'm finally at the point where I can say I'm fairly decent at this game since I have many friends who are pretty much obsessed with it. But does anybody know how to deal with people who stand at edges and spam range attacks? I main Link but also very frequently play Luigi and Toon Link, sometimes play Snake and occasionally play Pokemon Trainer (mostly Ivysaur) and Ike.

Punch them in the face (irl)

[Laharl]

i have never once heard anyone talk about tiers playing Soul Calibur IV online >_>

[Golden Legacy]

I haven't played Smash in so long. But WD, it really depends on the character you have. If you can master dodging to the side, you can easily make up that distance to your opponent while they miss. I prefer going in midair though, aerial attacks are what I emphasize generally.

[Someone Else]

Luigi's down B is practically made to close the distance on people who do crap like that. It's mostly Link I have issues with people doing that, since he's not such a great aerial fighter until your practice him for that and I'd prefer to close the distance through the air.

It's funny, I do main Link but I'm pretty much better with Luigi. Link's so badass in his own games but so... not bad ass in Smash Bros.

[Matthias]

Personally I'll stick with Super Smash Bros. Melee. Super Smash Bros. Brawl simplified the game way too much for me. I mean they even took out L-canceling! What the heck?! The L-canceling element was a feature not only in Melee, but in the original as well. I mean perhaps wavedashing was a glitch, but they aren't as half as effective as the original advanced techniques back in melee. Wavedashing in Melee effectively added a entirely new element to the game. It opened up new possibilities for combos and mind games and really defined Super Smash Bros. Melee as one of the most advanced, technical, and professional fighting games out there. With Brawl they've basically dumbed down the game, and it just isn't as good anymore. Yes there may be new glitches and a new "wavedash" in the game, but basically they've taken out necessary elements like hit stun which makes combos impossible, not to mention the game is much too floaty causing players to get sent off the screen, yet they still come back constantly.Also another down side is that sweet spotting is totally gone as the game does it for you. This limits approaches to the ledge which prevents a lot of mix ups that could be done back in Melee. Brawl is in fact a simpler game than Melee and will never reach the potential for Melee. I mean seriously, maybe wavedashing can be put aside but taking out non-glitch advanced techniques and game mechanics too? That's just stupid.

One good thing are hackers. Some hackers are putting some Melee elements back into the game. I don't really care about wavedashing that much, but one major hack is the hit-stun hack that puts hit-stun into Brawl, making real combos possible once again.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=lEgnGTG68gc
Here's a hack that puts L-canceling and wavedashing back in.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=36-BJpUT-3I
Now only if Brawl had L-canceling and hit-stun back in, only then I would give Brawl a chance.

[Caael]

Matthias, on Nov 24 2008, 10:08 AM, said:

Personally I'll stick with Super Smash Bros. Melee. Super Smash Bros. Brawl simplified the game way too much for me. I mean they even took out L-canceling! What the heck?! The L-canceling element was a feature not only in Melee, but in the original as well. I mean perhaps wavedashing was a glitch, but they aren't as half as effective as the original advanced techniques back in melee. Wavedashing in Melee effectively added a entirely new element to the game. It opened up new possibilities for combos and mind games and really defined Super Smash Bros. Melee as one of the most advanced, technical, and professional fighting games out there. With Brawl they've basically dumbed down the game, and it just isn't as good anymore. Yes there may be new glitches and a new "wavedash" in the game, but basically they've taken out necessary elements like hit stun which makes combos impossible, not to mention the game is much too floaty causing players to get sent off the screen, yet they still come back constantly.Also another down side is that sweet spotting is totally gone as the game does it for you. This limits approaches to the ledge which prevents a lot of mix ups that could be done back in Melee. Brawl is in fact a simpler game than Melee and will never reach the potential for Melee. I mean seriously, maybe wavedashing can be put aside but taking out non-glitch advanced techniques and game mechanics too? That's just stupid.

One good thing are hackers. Some hackers are putting some Melee elements back into the game. I don't really care about wavedashing that much, but one major hack is the hit-stun hack that puts hit-stun into Brawl, making real combos possible once again.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=lEgnGTG68gc
Here's a hack that puts L-canceling and wavedashing back in.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=36-BJpUT-3I
Now only if Brawl had L-canceling and hit-stun back in, only then I would give Brawl a chance.

OMG L CANCELLING?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Laharl]

Matthias, on Nov 24 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

defined Super Smash Bros. Melee as one of the most advanced, technical, and professional fighting games out there.

i lol'd

[Drizzy Drake]

Caael, on Nov 24 2008, 06:05 AM, said:

OMG L CANCELLING?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Laharl, on Nov 24 2008, 09:39 AM, said:

i lol'd

I third that.

Oh Mathias, you poor bastard. If you really think Smash Bros is the most technical fighter out there, then Smash Bros is the only fighter you've ever played.

[Golden Legacy]

Matthias just gave a well-thought out post and detailed analysis, it would really be decent if you guys can at least respond back thoughtfully.

I agree with your assessment Matthias. While I was never hugely into the advanced techniques in Melee, there was no doubt about skill levels of players. Combos could be pulled off and attacks actually felt like they had substantial impact in Melee. On the other hand, Brawl rewards defensive play and the slower gameplay makes attacks feel wholly weak, I've seen entirely novice players "win" by repetition and it just becomes senseless.

It's a shame too. Brawl is great when you have friends around and you're just tossing around the controllers to have fun, but it never feels like you actually "win". It almost feels as hollow as Mario Kart at times.

Maybe I'm just being bitter, but I've honestly not been able to play Brawl as seriously as I did Melee, when I was intent on beating the different modes with each character.

But at least the soundtrack's well done.

[My Best Wishes]

It's a game. I don't understand people who have nothing else to do but analyse and practice a child's game on a Ninty console.
If it were RockBand or GH or something then I'd understand it.

[Someone Else]

watch, on Nov 24 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

It's a game. I don't understand people who have nothing else to do but analyse and practice a child's game on a Ninty console.

Completely agree. Whaa whaa Melee is better. Okay. Go play Melee then.

[Matthias]

Someone Else, on Nov 25 2008, 12:13 AM, said:

Completely agree. Whaa whaa Melee is better. Okay. Go play Melee then.

I don't see why you all seem so offended. I'm just merely stating my own opinion. I'm not saying, "Oh guys don't play Brawl otherwise your ***s." I'm just stating my reasons on why I believe Melee is better than Brawl. The thing is, I'm just disappointed with Brawl is all since it had so much potential but was ruined in my eyes. I mean think of it as if Camelot released Golden Sun 3 and they took out everything you believed that made it a great game. Wouldn't you be disappointed as well?

[Nosferatu]

Matthias, on Nov 25 2008, 01:07 AM, said:

I don't see why you all seem so offended. I'm just merely stating my own opinion. I'm not saying, "Oh guys don't play Brawl otherwise your ***s." I'm just stating my reasons on why I believe Melee is better than Brawl. The thing is, I'm just disappointed with Brawl is all since it had so much potential but was ruined in my eyes. I mean think of it as if Camelot released Golden Sun 3 and they took out everything you believed that made it a great game. Wouldn't you be disappointed as well?

Or if Rare took out everything that made the first two Banjo games fun. Oh... wait.

Brawl is good, but Melee definantly feels better somehow. Played it a lot more then I have played Brawl. Not much else to say...

[My Best Wishes]

Matthias, on Nov 25 2008, 08:07 PM, said:

I don't see why you all seem so offended. I'm just merely stating my own opinion. I'm not saying, "Oh guys don't play Brawl otherwise your ***s." I'm just stating my reasons on why I believe Melee is better than Brawl. The thing is, I'm just disappointed with Brawl is all since it had so much potential but was ruined in my eyes. I mean think of it as if Camelot released Golden Sun 3 and they took out everything you believed that made it a great game. Wouldn't you be disappointed as well?

Don't feel that my post was directed at you, truthfully I didn't even read your post, too long and full of SSB strategy crap, not my interests.

[Legolastom]

Laharl, on Nov 24 2008, 12:54 AM, said:

i have never once heard anyone talk about tiers playing Soul Calibur IV online >_>

Thats because they havent been decided yet, there are talks and a few unofficial tier lists out alredy.

watch, on Nov 25 2008, 09:32 AM, said:

Don't feel that my post was directed at you, truthfully I didn't even read your post, too long and full of SSB strategy crap, not my interests.

Well your post was directed at him unless your talking about the first Super smash bros game.

Well it was inevitable that this game was gonna be dumbed down to appeal to people like watch who complain about how wavedashing is a glitch and should be removed and how tiers don exits. The least I wanted was for I dont know characters like Mega man or Ridley to be put in, I mean the fans wanted them and they were obvious choices, almost inevitable... lol thanks again Sakurai.

Also may I add that I am glad Ashley didnt get in.

[Someone Else]

Matthias, on Nov 25 2008, 01:07 AM, said:

I mean think of it as if Camelot released Golden Sun 3 and they took out everything you believed that made it a great game. Wouldn't you be disappointed as well?

Yes, but the difference between that and this is that I think of Smash Bros. as a party game, not a super competitive fighter or... well, GS3.

[Legolastom]

Well you are able to play the game as a competitive fighter and many people enjoy doing that and are pissed that brawl has taken away from this.

[Drizzy Drake]

watch, on Nov 25 2008, 01:34 AM, said:

It's a game. I don't understand people who have nothing else to do but analyse and practice a child's game on a Ninty console.
If it were RockBand or GH or something then I'd understand it.

Why is GH more deserving of mastering than Smash Bros? Please come back when you know what you're talking about.

Nosferatu, on Nov 25 2008, 04:16 AM, said:

Or if Rare took out everything that made the first two Banjo games fun. Oh... wait.

Brawl is good, but Melee definantly feels better somehow. Played it a lot more then I have played Brawl. Not much else to say...

I lol'd/

[My Best Wishes]

Legolastom, on Nov 26 2008, 06:57 AM, said:

Thats because they havent been decided yet, there are talks and a few unofficial tier lists out alredy.
Well your post was directed at him unless your talking about the first Super smash bros game.

Well it was inevitable that this game was gonna be dumbed down to appeal to people like watch who complain about how wavedashing is a glitch and should be removed and how tiers don exits. The least I wanted was for I dont know characters like Mega man or Ridley to be put in, I mean the fans wanted them and they were obvious choices, almost inevitable... lol thanks again Sakurai.

Also may I add that I am glad Ashley didnt get in.

So just completely ignore my post and claim that it was directed at him when I didn't even read his post. Brilliant.

Why am I the lowest common denominator? Is it because my life doesn't revolve around games? Becuase I actually have a life? I loved SSB and Melee, and I was excellent at both, without even owning a gamecube. Brawl was okay for me but I put it down because the Wifi didn't work cause I was using a NTSC copy in a Pal country months before it's release. It was okay but once the single player campaign was over that was it for me.

In short, wtf is with the personal attack.

Neophyte, on Nov 26 2008, 08:25 AM, said:

Why is GH more deserving of mastering than Smash Bros? Please come back when you know what you're talking about.
I lol'd/

Guitar Hero takes skill, people go from hardly being able to play Easy to ripping it up on Hard or Expert, it happened to me and everyone I've seen play GH or Rockband, whereas with Smash you can just button mash and that's it, game won like any other fighter. Even if you take time to get familiar with a character, know a stage and items, you can still get your ass handed to you by a 12 year old with a 'low tier' character and a hammer. And on the subject of tiers, they're bull****, I could beat someone with an equal skill level if they had a high tier and I had a low tier character.

Why is everyone here suddenly a smarmy prick?

[Matthias]

Someone Else, on Nov 25 2008, 12:16 PM, said:

Yes, but the difference between that and this is that I think of Smash Bros. as a party game, not a super competitive fighter or... well, GS3.

That's understandable, but I'm just sort of angry because the competitive community kind of died as the professional and casual player boundaries were blurred in Brawl since they dumbed down the fundamental game mechanics (meaning we're not considering glitches like wavedashing or shine canceling here) in general from the other two games. I mean maybe I wouldn't be so angry if Melee wasn't so good and didn't establish one of the most successful competitive video game communities. Even Ken, one of Super Smash Bros. Melee's top players, was recognized and because of it he got a place on this season's TV series Survivor. (No I didn't know they were still airing that show either. :D) But to put it in sort, I don't see why Nintendo could have not appealed to both competitive and casual players just to open it up since Melee established such a defined competitive AND casual player community. It made it more open to more people. If you want to played casually and just have fun, it was great. If you wanted to play competitively, it was also great if it was your thing. The fact it was flexible to the skill levels and dedication of the players was what made it enjoyable to everyone. By making Brawl just focused to casual players, they've basically cut off a giant community all together. A lot of Melee competitive players don't play Brawl anymore, or at least not as much as they did back in Melee.

[Someone Else]

Look at it on the optimistic side, maybe they weren't trying to focus on casuals. Maybe they thought that they needed to add, remove, and change things to justify a new game, rather than keeping it the exact same thing as Melee with new characters and items. (basically an expansion pack)

At any rate, I'd agree that after I looked up the see what hitstun is, the fact that it's non existent in Brawl is kind of... bleagh.

[Laharl]

"professional brawl playing" lawl. what a stupid term, you cant make a living from being a tourny***, delusions of grandeur much?

i had no idea you were such a massive Nintendo faggot Legolastom

[Drizzy Drake]

Nosferatu, on Nov 25 2008, 04:16 AM, said:

Or if Rare took out everything that made the first two Banjo games fun. Oh... wait.

Brawl is good, but Melee definantly feels better somehow. Played it a lot more then I have played Brawl. Not much else to say...

Duh you played Melee more, it's been out for 7 years.

watch, on Nov 26 2008, 01:37 AM, said:

Guitar Hero takes skill, people go from hardly being able to play Easy to ripping it up on Hard or Expert, it happened to me and everyone I've seen play GH or Rockband, whereas with Smash you can just button mash and that's it, game won like any other fighter. Even if you take time to get familiar with a character, know a stage and items, you can still get your ass handed to you by a 12 year old with a 'low tier' character and a hammer. And on the subject of tiers, they're bull****, I could beat someone with an equal skill level if they had a high tier and I had a low tier character.

Why is everyone here suddenly a smarmy prick?

Melee took skill, which is why the same small group of people won every single turny. Because they practiced and got better than everybody else.

If you put a n00b who hasn't even heard of Smash Bros, in a match against Ken, Final Destination, 4 stock, no items, I guarantee that n00b isn't getting a kill on him.

Once again, please be quiet till you know what you're talking about.

Matthias, on Nov 26 2008, 02:18 AM, said:

That's understandable, but I'm just sort of angry because the competitive community kind of died as the professional and casual player boundaries were blurred in Brawl since they dumbed down the fundamental game mechanics (meaning we're not considering glitches like wavedashing or shine canceling here) in general from the other two games. I mean maybe I wouldn't be so angry if Melee wasn't so good and didn't establish one of the most successful competitive video game communities. Even Ken, one of Super Smash Bros. Melee's top players, was recognized and because of it he got a place on this season's TV series Survivor. (No I didn't know they were still airing that show either. :D) But to put it in sort, I don't see why Nintendo could have not appealed to both competitive and casual players just to open it up since Melee established such a defined competitive AND casual player community. It made it more open to more people. If you want to played casually and just have fun, it was great. If you wanted to play competitively, it was also great if it was your thing. The fact it was flexible to the skill levels and dedication of the players was what made it enjoyable to everyone. By making Brawl just focused to casual players, they've basically cut off a giant community all together. A lot of Melee competitive players don't play Brawl anymore, or at least not as much as they did back in Melee.

Old

[Nosferatu]

Neophyte, on Nov 26 2008, 01:37 PM, said:

Duh you played Melee more, it's been out for 7 years.

No I mean, I'd play Melee more often. Like you know, once a day or something. Brawl I just can't be bothered to pick it up and play.

[I'm Always BROKE]

Sure Smash is a party game, but Melee could also be played competively at a much deeper scale than Brawl making the game better. Plain as that. Brawl is great, don't get me wrong but Melee is deffinatly the better game of the two.

The only thing I think is better in Brawl than Melee is the character roster. But then again... They took Mewtwo out... :D Still kinda pissed of for that.

[Nosferatu]

Diddy Kong, on Nov 26 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

The only thing I think is better in Brawl than Melee is the character roster. But then again... They took Mewtwo out... :D Still kinda pissed of for that.

This is true. Especially about Mewtwo.

[Drizzy Drake]

Nosferatu, on Nov 26 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

No I mean, I'd play Melee more often. Like you know, once a day or something. Brawl I just can't be bothered to pick it up and play.

*facepalm*

I know what you meant.

Diddy Kong, on Nov 26 2008, 06:32 PM, said:

Sure Smash is a party game, but Melee could also be played competively at a much deeper scale than Brawl making the game better. Plain as that. Brawl is great, don't get me wrong but Melee is deffinatly the better game of the two.

The only thing I think is better in Brawl than Melee is the character roster. But then again... They took Mewtwo out... :D Still kinda pissed of for that.

I won't diss Mewtwo; I played him second behind my 3-Time main Link, but he was a ****ty character. His B moves are beyond fail. Wait, I did diss him.

Lucario took the good parts of Mewtwo, and chopped the bad parts into peices and tossed them into different oceans, mafioso style, and then made him fully good....that's Lucario.

[Nosferatu]

Neophyte, on Nov 26 2008, 08:01 PM, said:

*facepalm*

I know what you meant.

I won't diss Mewtwo; I played him second behind my 3-Time main Link, but he was a ****ty character. His B moves are beyond fail. Wait, I did diss him.

Lucario took the good parts of Mewtwo, and chopped the bad parts into peices and tossed them into different oceans, mafioso style, and then made him fully good....that's Lucario.

Things are hard to interpret right through text.

Also that truth is true about Lucario. <3 Lucario.

[My Best Wishes]

Neophyte, on Nov 27 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

If you put a n00b who hasn't even heard of Smash Bros, in a match against Ken, Final Destination, 4 stock, no items, I guarantee that n00b isn't getting a kill on him.

Once again, please be quiet till you know what you're talking about.

And I guarantee if you put a 'n00b' in a GH or RB match against me or anyone better, they don't stand a ****ing chance because they haven't played enough to develop the skills, and SSB was made with items and funky stages because that's what makes it unique, you can't take that out and label the game a serious fighter, and you cannot compare a brand new player to the 'worlds best' and call it skill, ****s sake you are pompus, "Once again, please be quiet till you know what you're talking about", stupid knob jockey.

[Split Infinity]

Yeah, I went to a friend's house to play Brawl today. Fun times.

The slowdown pickup gets really annoying after a while though.

[Laharl]

if Medal of Honor was like smash bros....

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z254/laharl_the_slayer_07/558px-Finaldestination4.gif

[Drizzy Drake]

watch, on Nov 27 2008, 01:25 AM, said:

And I guarantee if you put a 'n00b' in a GH or RB match against me or anyone better, they don't stand a ****ing chance because they haven't played enough to develop the skills, and SSB was made with items and funky stages because that's what makes it unique, you can't take that out and label the game a serious fighter, and you cannot compare a brand new player to the 'worlds best' and call it skill, ****s sake you are pompus, "Once again, please be quiet till you know what you're talking about", stupid knob jockey.

There you go, so both games can be mastered, and mastered well, and can't just be won by random button presses. You fucked yourself over right there, snoogans.

[Matthias]

Laharl, on Nov 27 2008, 06:15 AM, said:

if Medal of Honor was like smash bros....

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z254/laharl_the_slayer_07/558px-Finaldestination4.gif

I lol'd hard. Seriously! Did you draw that?! Nice MS Paint skillage. :D

[Laharl]

nah, it's from the ED page on "tournyfag" XD

[My Best Wishes]

Neophyte, on Nov 28 2008, 02:48 AM, said:

There you go, so both games can be mastered, and mastered well, and can't just be won by random button presses. You fucked yourself over right there, snoogans.

But it can just be won by random button presses. People can pick up SSB and play instantly, Guitar Hero takes longer to work up your skills, I'm not saying it doesn't take 'skill' to play SSB as it does for all games. I'm saying that GH takes more skill then SSB because of the nature of the game, I never argued it took no skill to play.

Neophyte, on Nov 26 2008, 08:25 AM, said:

Why is GH more deserving of mastering than Smash Bros? Please come back when you know what you're talking about.
I lol'd/

Just incase you forgot what you were on about.

[Laharl]

know what's more impressive than 'mad GH skillz'? being able to be play a real guitar.

there are far too many GH ******s under the delusion they're actually skilled guitarists

[Nosferatu]

Laharl, on Nov 27 2008, 11:55 PM, said:

know what's more impressive than 'mad GH skillz'? being able to be play a real guitar.

there are far too many GH ******s under the delusion they're actually skilled guitarists

I could just let Laharl post for me some days.

[My Best Wishes]

Laharl, on Nov 28 2008, 06:55 PM, said:

know what's more impressive than 'mad GH skillz'? being able to be play a real guitar.

I'm not arguing that, but do you know how many people I've met that play guitar and comment on how hard GH is?

[Split Infinity]

Rhythm games if anything are probably easier to jump into than fighting games.

[Laharl]

that would be because they're used to an actual guitar and not some spazzy Fisher Price knock off

[Toasty]

I kinda have to agree with Laharl on this one to some extent.

It's way harder to play on the Rockband drumset properly than it is to play on a real one. But the main reason for why it;s harder, is that you're forced to play to the computer's rythm, and if you're a drummer, you almost akways improvise everything. Sure, in a band you'll play through the song a few times to figure out where the dynamics and stuff are, and there might be some suggestions for what should be played when and where, but the only time I ever see drumset sheet music, is if it's for a jazz piece. Though I'm sure you can find sheet music for mainstream music aswell. But that was likely created after the song was recorded.

Improvising to a beat is way easier than trying to play exactly the same thing that someone else is.


But the drums and the guitar are two entirely different insturments.

[Drizzy Drake]

watch, on Nov 28 2008, 01:26 AM, said:

But it can just be won by random button presses. People can pick up SSB and play instantly, Guitar Hero takes longer to work up your skills, I'm not saying it doesn't take 'skill' to play SSB as it does for all games. I'm saying that GH takes more skill then SSB because of the nature of the game, I never argued it took no skill to play.

Um, nope. Second song I tried on Guitar Hero and I was all set to go. So I don't see where you got that from.

Think about it this way, what would take longer, getting to a Ken level of goodness, versus being able to beat every song on Expert? I know people who after not even a month of having Guitar Hero could play TTFAF through on Expert. So please don't say it takes much more time to get good at GH.

And any rhythem guitar game, whose hardest song is TTFAF, fails to begin with.

Laharl, on Nov 28 2008, 02:55 AM, said:

know what's more impressive than 'mad GH skillz'? being able to be play a real guitar.

there are far too many GH ******s under the delusion they're actually skilled guitarists

Posts like these are what keep me from killing you some days.

[Toasty]

I know a lot of people who have played GH 1/2/3 and are really good at it. It doesn't take long to even get decent with GH. But I found that it took me significantly longer to gain any kind of skill in SSBB.

[Matthias]

watch, on Nov 28 2008, 01:50 AM, said:

I'm not arguing that, but do you know how many people I've met that play guitar and comment on how hard GH is?

That's actually true. I am one of them. I've only played Guitar Hero twice in my life (and I think it was only the second one) and I suck at it, regardless of how much I play the guitar. But that's actually because since we play a real guitar there's not much reason to even play Guitar Hero or Rock Band... but that doesn't mean it's a bad game either. Heck that doesn't mean there's guitarists and video game guitarists all in one person either. I have a friend who's pretty good at guitar AND Guitar Hero and he loves and plays them both almost everyday. I don't really look down upon games like Guitar Hero because after all, it's just another video game meant to entertain people. But personally I'd just prefer to play the guitar and play/write music I enjoy instead of being virtually controlled to with a fake guitar to hit a key in beats and rhythms according to the screen.

Toasty, on Nov 28 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

I know a lot of people who have played GH 1/2/3 and are really good at it. It doesn't take long to even get decent with GH. But I found that it took me significantly longer to gain any kind of skill in SSBB.

Definitely agreed. Super Smash Bros. takes much more depth and skill than Guitar Hero making it harder to master. Think of the skill level differences and learning curves for each game. Guitar Hero's basic mechanics focus on hitting the right keys at the right time according to the screen. Now as Guitar Hero gets advanced, it only builds on these basic mechanics and nothing more as the gameplay itself is linear and there's nothing else to spread out to. The only things that change are the tempo, types of keys that are off the natural beat, etc., and these elements only mix up gameplay a bit but pertain to their fundamentals. Naturally Super Smash Bros. takes much more skill and work to improve oneself or even become "advanced" since it's a fighting game. The game appeals to newbies since it's easy to pick up for beginners and has easy fundamental concepts to understand. But as it becomes more advanced, the reason why it gets more difficult to build on skills and technique is because there's a variety of factors the player needs to understand whether he or she really realizes it as he or she improves. Players need to account for terrain, attack distances, attack types, delays, what moves work well together, anticipation of the enemy's moves, reaction to attacks, etc. The fact I'm listing so many more factors that make Super Smash Bros. more in depth already shows it's much harder to "master" than Guitar Hero. Remember, it's one thing to pick up the game and be able to play it and it's another to actually build upon those skills to make yourself better.